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George Takei: "They interned my family. Don't let them do it to Muslims."

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Must read: https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...them-do-it-to-muslims/?utm_term=.b8510dc329aa

There is dangerous talk these days by those who have the ear of some at the highest levels of government. Earlier this week, Carl Higbie, an outspoken Trump surrogate and co-chair of Great America PAC, gave an interview with Megyn Kelly of Fox News. They were discussing the notion of a national Muslim registry, a controversial part of the Trump administration’s national security plans, when Higbie dropped a bombshell: “We did it during World War II with Japanese, which, you know, call it what you will,” he said. Was he really citing the Japanese American internment, Kelly wanted to know, as grounds for treating Muslims the same way today? Higbie responded that he wasn’t saying we should return to putting people in camps. But then he added, “There is precedent for it.”

Stop and consider these words. The internment was a dark chapter of American history, in which 120,000 people, including me and my family, lost our homes, our livelihoods, and our freedoms because we happened to look like the people who bombed Pearl Harbor. Higbie speaks of the internment in the abstract, as a “precedent” or a policy, ignoring the true human tragedy that occurred.

I was just a child of 5 when we were forced at gunpoint from our home and sent first to live in a horse stable at a local race track, a family of five crammed into a single smelly stall. It was a devastating blow to my parents, who had worked so hard to buy a house and raise a family in Los Angeles. After several weeks, they sent us much farther away, 1,000 miles to the east by rail car, the blinds of our train cars pulled for our own protection, they said. We disembarked in the fetid swamps of Arkansas at the Rohwer Relocation Center. Really, it was a prison: Armed guards looked down upon us from sentry towers; their guns pointed inward at us; searchlights lit pathways at night. We understood. We were not to leave.

My parents did their best to make life seem normal. As a child, I very readily accepted our new circumstance and adjusted to it. As far as I was concerned, it was normal to line up to use the common latrine, or to eat wretched grub in a common mess hall, prisoners in our own country. It was normal for us to share a single small barrack with no privacy whatsoever. And it was normal to stand each day in our makeshift classroom, reciting the words to the Pledge of Allegiance, “With liberty and justice for all,” as I looked past the U.S. flag out the window, the barbed wire of the camp just visible behind it.

Not until I was older did I understand the irony of those words and the injustice that had been visited on so many of us. As I studied civics and government in school, I came to see the internment as an assault not only upon an entire group of Americans, but upon the Constitution itself — how its guarantees of due process and equal protection had been decimated by forces of fear and prejudice unleashed by unscrupulous politicians. It had been a Democratic administration at the time, under Franklin D. Roosevelt, that had ordered us to the camps, proving that demagoguery and race-baiting knows no party.

It took decades for the United States to own up to what it had done and officially apologize for the internment, offering symbolic monetary reparations to the survivors. I donated my own check to the Japanese American National Museum, whose mission, like mine, has been to help ensure the mistakes of the past are never repeated. That is why these words by Higbie, which ominously are representative of much of the current thinking in the incoming administration, have reopened very old and very deep wounds.

This was not the first time the Trump camp had raised the internment. When he did so before, it wasn’t as the historical warning it should be, but as a precedent for what might yet come. In late 2015, during the presidential primary, Trump actually went on the record with Time magazine stating that he did not know whether he would have supported or opposed the internment. “I would have had to be there at the time to tell you, to give you a proper answer,” he said. He argued that FDR was “one of the most highly respected presidents,” and that what he was suggesting was “no different from FDR.” Trump hedged his response with a nod to the horror of the camps, but tellingly did not disavow them: “I certainly hate the concept of it. But I would have had to be there at the time to give you a proper answer.”

Higbie similarly has kept open the specter of the camps, in one breath stating that the does not favor the idea, but in the very next noting, “We have to protect America first.” Indeed, in a follow-up interview with the New York Times, Higbie doubled down on the unthinkable: “There is historical, factual precedent to do things [that] are not politically popular and sometimes not right, in the interest of national security.”

Let us all be clear: “National security” must never again be permitted to justify wholesale denial of constitutional rights and protections. If it is freedom and our way of life that we fight for, our first obligation is to ensure that our own government adheres to those principles. Without that, we are no better than our enemies.

Let us also agree that ethnic or religious discrimination cannot be justified by calls for greater security. During World War II, the government argued that military authorities could not distinguish between alleged enemy elements and peaceful, patriotic Japanese Americans. It concluded, therefore, that all those of Japanese descent, including American citizens, should be presumed guilty and held without charge, trial or legal recourse, in many cases for years. The very same arguments echo today, on the assumption that a handful of presumed radical elements within the Muslim community necessitates draconian measures against the whole, all in the name of national security.

It begins with profiling and with registries, but as Trump and Higbie have made clear, once the safety of the country is at stake, all safeguards are off. In their world, national security justifies actions that are “sometimes not right,” and no one really can guarantee where it will end.

We cannot permit this invidious thinking, discredited by history at the cost of so much misery and suffering by innocents, to take root once again in America, let alone in the White House. The stigmatization, separation and labeling of our fellow humans based on race or religion has never led to a more secure world. But it has too often led to one where the most vulnerable pay the highest price.

The Constitution and the government exist in large measure to protect against the excesses of democracies. This is particularly salient when, in an atmosphere of fear or mistrust, one group is singled out and vilified, as Japanese Americans were during World War II and as Muslim Americans are today. How terrible it is to contemplate, once again, that the government itself might once more be the very instrument of terror and division. That cannot happen again. We cannot allow it.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Just read it too. It's crazy that it even needs to be said. It should be self-evident.

And it was normal to stand each day in our makeshift classroom, reciting the words to the Pledge of Allegiance, “With liberty and justice for all,” as I looked past the U.S. flag out the window, the barbed wire of the camp just visible behind it.
I would laugh at the putrid stupidity of this, if it weren't so damn tragic.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
As someone with a Japanese grand parent who was in the military during WW2 when I heard even the the mention by one of his surrogates I started fuming. I don't care who or what, it was unacceptable and a national disgrace that should never ever be repeated.
 

RMI

Banned
“There is historical, factual precedent to do things [that] are not politically popular and sometimes not right, in the interest of national security.”

the fuck does this even mean? Hey guys, in the past we made some really bad choices so, you know, maybe we should make them again?

I fucking hate what this country is becoming.
 
are they really going to send my family to a camp...

how do you even decide officially who is and isn't a Muslim

if you're part of a Muslim family are you a Muslim?

if you got a Muslim name are you a Muslim?

how are they gonna regulate this shit
 

Makonero

Member
btNUnXS.jpg
 

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
are they really going to send my family to a camp...

how do you even decide officially who is and isn't a Muslim

if you're part of a Muslim family are you a Muslim?

if you got a Muslim name are you a Muslim?

how are they gonna regulate this shit
Skin colour mate.
 
the fuck does this even mean? Hey guys, in the past we made some really bad choices so, you know, maybe we should make them again?

I fucking hate what this country is becoming.

For one, they don't really consider the past choice to be a bad one.

are they really going to send my family to a camp...

how do you even decide officially who is and isn't a Muslim

if you're part of a Muslim family are you a Muslim?

if you got a Muslim name are you a Muslim?

how are they gonna regulate this shit

Everyone of Arab descent plus any "race traitors."
 

EGM1966

Member
People need to listen to George.

They won't most likely but they should. Key Western countries are making some serious ethical missteps and there is too much fear driving a social regression that's going to have negative impacts on a wide scale.

Sad to know you're literally witnessing a trough vs a peak in the history of our species.
 

Miletius

Member
As a proud Japanese American I will to my best to prevent this from happening again here. We must all try our best to remind people why this is not okay.
 

norm9

Member
Sulu's right.

Internment camps are a black eye for a country with many black eyes in regards to how it treats its people. And we still don't learn
 
I just have to say that I fully believe if they actually tried "camps" that there would be massive public outrage. I will be the first in line to prevent them from doing it.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Trump: Maybe we should give slavery a try again. Lets give it a nicer name like indentured servitude. That's no as scary sounding as slavery.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Like I remarked elsewhere my bet is that they will use the fact that would stop just short of literal camps to try and appear reasonable. Someone around the table is going to suggest little arm bands to make people wear, or symbols to put on the front door of their homes that show that they're a proper and vetted muslim.

With the way these fuckers think, muslims should see it as a great thing! The neighbors will feel safe knowing you're one of the good ones!
 
Is it going to be wrong to fight back if something like this happens? Is it morally wrong? Are just suppose to give in to the officials? How much are we suppose to forgive till the first deadly encounter happens?
 

Makonero

Member
Is it going to be wrong to fight back if something like this happens? Is it morally wrong? Are just suppose to give in to the officials? How much are we suppose to forgive till the first deadly encounter happens?

No. We fight. On this and any other obvious breach of civil rights.
 
Is it going to be wrong to fight back if something like this happens? Is it morally wrong? Are just suppose to give in to the officials? How much are we suppose to forgive till the first deadly encounter happens?

Hell no its not going to be wrong. We should never just "give in to officials" if they are doing stuff that is evil. It's like the second line of the declaration of independence.
 

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
Takei's spoken about this at length many times, but it always bears repeating, especially now.

And saying this stuff has "precendent" is utterly disgusting. Yeah, there's "precedent" for gross human rights violations. It's "a blight on American history", not a "precedent", you fuckwit.

They're trying to inch towards saying that it's okay to do this shit. What the fuck is wrong with these people?
 
This won't happen.

Trust me - if there's some sort of terrorist attack and Trump issues an order to round up Muslims, millions of Americans will come out to protect them from law enforcement or whoever the hell it is that tries to arrest and move them.

It'll be a huge mess, but Muslims will not be rounded up. Non-Muslims will come together and help them, shelter them, protest for them.

It won't happen. Not without a huge national fight and lots of angry protesting and probably rioting too.

Empathetic Senators and Congressmen will be right there defending their rights too.

Fuck Trump and all his supporters. They'll have to arrest White Christians & Jews in order get to the Muslims. I don't see the Trump going that far.
 
Hell no its not going to be wrong. We should never just "give in to officials" if they are doing stuff that is evil. It's like the second line of the declaration of independence.

I'm just worrried about this type of action leading to civil war, I believe that our rights shouldn't be violated like that, I just hope there will be a way to do it without leading more violent means of stopping it.
 
I'm just worrried about this type of action leading to civil war, I believe that our rights shouldn't be violated like that, I just hope there will be a way to do it without leading more violent means of stopping it.

If our elected officials fail us then we have to take matters in to our own hands. I don't think it'll ever come to that though.
 
my mom's family is from hawaii. they were there when pearl harbor happened. my grandma's brothers died fighting in italy, for the united states. we've been int his country for nearly 150 years. this is disgusting.
 
I'm just worrried about this type of action leading to civil war, I believe that our rights shouldn't be violated like that, I just hope there will be a way to do it without leading more violent means of stopping it.

Unfortunately, it'll be inevitable. If this happens, if people, good people, stand between Arab and Muslim people and the government, it WILL come to violence. Because what they are doing then is unlawful.

You know what that leaves, when the people who tried to stand are imprisoned or slaughtered in the name of safety? The bad people. The people who will not stand for it, and will use whatever means necessary. As Kennedy put it, those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.

These peoples' lives are in danger. Their rights are in danger. We cannot take that off the table.
 

Moofers

Member
This won't happen.

Trust me - if there's some sort of terrorist attack and Trump issues an order to round up Muslims, millions of Americans will come out to protect them from law enforcement or whoever the hell it is that tries to arrest and move them.

It'll be a huge mess, but Muslims will not be rounded up. Non-Muslims will come together and help them, shelter them, protest for them.

It won't happen. Not without a huge national fight and lots of angry protesting and probably rioting too.

Empathetic Senators and Congressmen will be right there defending their rights too.

Fuck Trump and all his supporters. They'll have to arrest White Christians & Jews in order get to the Muslims. I don't see the Trump going that far.

I fucking hope you're right. Its going to get ugly.
 

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
This won't happen.

Trust me - if there's some sort of terrorist attack and Trump issues an order to round up Muslims, millions of Americans will come out to protect them from law enforcement or whoever the hell it is that tries to arrest and move them.

It'll be a huge mess, but Muslims will not be rounded up. Non-Muslims will come together and help them, shelter them, protest for them.

It won't happen. Not without a huge national fight and lots of angry protesting and probably rioting too.

Empathetic Senators and Congressmen will be right there defending their rights too.

Fuck Trump and all his supporters. They'll have to arrest White Christians & Jews in order get to the Muslims. I don't see the Trump going that far.
I hope you're right, but I'm reminded of the recent news where heavily militarized police appeared to arrest natives protesting the North Dakota pipeline.
 
This won't happen.

Trust me - if there's some sort of terrorist attack and Trump issues an order to round up Muslims, millions of Americans will come out to protect them from law enforcement or whoever the hell it is that tries to arrest and move them.

It'll be a huge mess, but Muslims will not be rounded up. Non-Muslims will come together and help them, shelter them, protest for them.

It won't happen. Not without a huge national fight and lots of angry protesting and probably rioting too.

Empathetic Senators and Congressmen will be right there defending their rights too.

Fuck Trump and all his supporters. They'll have to arrest White Christians & Jews in order get to the Muslims. I don't see the Trump going that far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJt7gNi3Nr4
 
This won't happen.

Trust me - if there's some sort of terrorist attack and Trump issues an order to round up Muslims, millions of Americans will come out to protect them from law enforcement or whoever the hell it is that tries to arrest and move them.

It'll be a huge mess, but Muslims will not be rounded up. Non-Muslims will come together and help them, shelter them, protest for them.

It won't happen. Not without a huge national fight and lots of angry protesting and probably rioting too.

Empathetic Senators and Congressmen will be right there defending their rights too.

Fuck Trump and all his supporters. They'll have to arrest White Christians & Jews in order get to the Muslims. I don't see the Trump going that far.

I'm just so pessimistic that I cant stop worrying. Every day since the election has been fucked up. With all the fuckery going on I cant even feel confident in the constitution or anything that will protect my family and I. I sure as hell hope it never comes to that.
 
I heard George speak about those days during a convention a few years back. When he spoke about the things he and his family had to go through on an almost daily basis, I teared up. If Trump and his cronies were to order this, people all over the country would take up arms (including me) and dare them to try. However, I doubt it will ever come to that. I have to believe Congress would block anything like this from happening.
 
The amount of urban unrest that would result from any attempt at this is unfathomable. Not just from muslims but from the entire urban demographic coalition.

Then again, deep in their hearts many of these racist types deeply want to see the national guard beating the piss out of minorities, LGBTQ people, and especially white liberals in their own cities.
 

RMI

Banned
what if you haven't been attending the mosque but identify as Muslim? this is wrong

They don't need to register all Muslims for their program to be a success in their eyes. They just need to make it miserable enough to be Muslim in this country.
 

jerry113

Banned
Like I remarked elsewhere my bet is that they will use the fact that would stop just short of literal camps to try and appear reasonable. Someone around the table is going to suggest little arm bands to make people wear, or symbols to put on the front door of their homes that show that they're a proper and vetted muslim.

With the way these fuckers think, muslims should see it as a great thing! The neighbors will feel safe knowing you're one of the good ones!

You're probably right. A Muslim public registry is probably closer to the real goal.
 

Cerium

Member
I heard George speak about those days during a convention a few years back. When he spoke about the things he and his family had to go through on an almost daily basis, I teared up. If Trump and his cronies were to order this, people all over the country would take up arms (including me) and dare them to try. However, I doubt it will ever come to that. I have to believe Congress would block anything like this from happening.
Last time it was done by executive order and approved by the Supreme Court. Congress wouldn't play a role.
 
This won't happen.

Trust me - if there's some sort of terrorist attack and Trump issues an order to round up Muslims, millions of Americans will come out to protect them from law enforcement or whoever the hell it is that tries to arrest and move them.

It'll be a huge mess, but Muslims will not be rounded up. Non-Muslims will come together and help them, shelter them, protest for them.

It won't happen. Not without a huge national fight and lots of angry protesting and probably rioting too.

Empathetic Senators and Congressmen will be right there defending their rights too.

Fuck Trump and all his supporters. They'll have to arrest White Christians & Jews in order get to the Muslims. I don't see the Trump going that far.
Maybe in places like LA, NYC, Chicago.

But in not so urban population centers? Yea we're screwed.
 

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
are they really going to send my family to a camp...

how do you even decide officially who is and isn't a Muslim

if you're part of a Muslim family are you a Muslim?

if you got a Muslim name are you a Muslim?

how are they gonna regulate this shit
The crusades method. They're going to rework the saying so that it now goes, "internment for all, let God sort out his own!"
 
They don't need to register all Muslims for their program to be a success in their eyes. They just need to make it miserable enough to be Muslim in this country.
in some cases it is already kinda miserable. it's about to get worse.
The crusades method. They're going to rework the saying so that it now goes, "internment for all, let God sort out his own!"
i think that is a horrible idea.
 
This won't happen.

Trust me - if there's some sort of terrorist attack and Trump issues an order to round up Muslims, millions of Americans will come out to protect them from law enforcement or whoever the hell it is that tries to arrest and move them.

It'll be a huge mess, but Muslims will not be rounded up. Non-Muslims will come together and help them, shelter them, protest for them.

It won't happen. Not without a huge national fight and lots of angry protesting and probably rioting too.

Empathetic Senators and Congressmen will be right there defending their rights too.

Fuck Trump and all his supporters. They'll have to arrest White Christians & Jews in order get to the Muslims. I don't see the Trump going that far.

I don't think so. If there is a terrorist attack similar to 9/11, I think we will all winess the worst of America coming out. People who normally would stand up against such atrocities would suddenly demand the unthinkable because of fear.
 

Zapages

Member
Even a registry list is unacceptable... This will prevent Muslims to get jobs and be deter employers to employ Muslims...

All this is unconstitutional!!! But the folks are like this does not effect me. :( Until it does, but by that time it will be too late. :(
 
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