Support NeoGAF

[Cakeboxer]

Then explain why we went from:
87M PS3
84M Xbox 360

To:
114M PS4
58M XBO

No problem: Bad PR (tvtvtv, forced online), planed DRM (see the how to trade games video from Sony), too expensive, forced Kinect (fear of being filmed at home) and much weaker than PS4

Why are you asking me?

Ah well, that was to the other guy then i guess.

 

[evolve]

Of course a topic about Xbox going 3rd party had to turn into "But Sony will end up there as well. it's not an Xbox problem. sony is flopping too"

Ikr!? Each new xbox problem, is suddenly pushed by some people as being a problem the whole industry is having.

"Consoles are dead/dying" is the most amusing one to me.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Because PS is the older and more popular brand with much more fans and they also came from a very strong gen which means existing game libraries and friendlists. People would only have switched if Sony would have made huge PS3 mistakes which they didn't.
Microsoft has 0 exclusives, xCloud and also starts to port games to Switch and PlayStation. Yet they somehow managed to sell almost 30 million consoles. Can't be that bad with pc games day1. I'm excited to see how the Series lifetime does compared to the Xbox One lifetime where at least half the gen had exclusives.

You must work in xbox leadership to think Xbox position due just to the strength of Playstation and not the missteps/mismanagement of Xbox.

 

[Cakeboxer]

You must work in xbox leadership to think Xbox position due just to the strength of Playstation and not the missteps/mismanagement of Xbox.

Lmao, did you even read two posts above where i say why i think Xbox One sucked so much? "bad PR (tvtvtv, forced online), planed DRM (see the how to trade games video from Sony), too expensive, forced Kinect (fear of being filmed at home) and much weaker than PS4"

 

[Killjoy-NL]

No problem: Bad PR (tvtvtv, forced online), planed DRM (see the how to trade games video from Sony), too expensive, forced Kinect (fear of being filmed at home) and much weaker than PS4

Crossed what's completely irrelevant to the average consumer.

But since you addressed price, explain why Series S isn't a massive succes?

And don't bring up performance, because Switch is the second best-selling console ever and is underpowered compared to Xbox and Playstation.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Not a flex, just funny, . As long as PC doesn't get left out then I don't care where games get ported to, although the more the merrier is my preferred philosophy.

Agree with that.

 

[mckmas8808]

What would be the point of yet another console if you are putting your content on the other consoles who offer their own games as well as third party and now yours on top of that.

How many people do you expect to buy it when its possibly around the same price point as the others or even more expensive depending on its capabilities.

Game Pass!

 

[Cakeboxer]

Crossed what's completely irrelevant to the average consumer.

But since you addressed price, explain why Series S isn't a massive succes?

And don't bring up performance, because Switch is the second best ever console and is underpowered compared to Xbox and Playstation.

Why would the S be a massive success if the price was just a small part of the Xbox One problems?

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Ikr!? Each new xbox problem, is suddenly pushed by some people as being a problem the whole industry is having.

"Consoles are dead/dying" is the most amusing one to me.

Those people also fail to mention how Switch is selling more than Xbox...a console that came out in 2017.

Everyone is doing better than Xbox but somehow the console industry is dying suddenly.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Why would the S be a massive success if the price was just a small part of the Xbox One problems?

I'm talking Series S.

Edit:

Misread your post, I think.

Explain why Series sales are getting dwarfed by PS5.

 

[Fess]

Yeah. I think they are slowly trickling out the news because it's less painful to dedicated Xbox consumers.

I don't think it's a better strategy to drag it out, just means there is negativity in the talks for a longer time.
Just announce a third party publisher strategy and day 1 releases everywhere.
Or pull the plug on the ports and release more exclusives.
No in between bullshit.

But I've already moved on to PC so they lost me. Only thing I use from Microsoft at this point is the Xbox controller and Gamepass(as long as I can get it cheap).

The Xbox-PC hybrid that's rumoured is interesting but mostly if they release the OS for PC so I don't have to use regular Windows in the living room.

 

[GHG]

Just continue making consoles, do whatever you want with your (not so) first party games. Never cared about them, except a couple ones, they are all shit as far as I am concerned.

Then why do you buy their consoles?

 

[Cakeboxer]

I'm talking Series S.

So do i.

Gj acting obtuse. You work for MS?

Nope, not even owning any console right now.

 

[mckmas8808]

But I've already moved on to PC so they lost me. Only thing I use from Microsoft at this point is the Xbox controller and Gamepass(as long as I can get it cheap).

The Xbox-PC hybrid that's rumoured is interesting but mostly if they release the OS for PC so I don't have to use regular Windows in the living room.

People on GAF still don't realize how impossible this is to work for MS. There's less than a 1% chance a Xbox-PC hybrid can work. Only people that don't understand the industry thinks this is a workable idea.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

So do i.

Nope, not even owning any console right now.

I edited my post, I misread your previous one.

We're back at the main question:

Why are Series sales being dwarfed by PS5, if exclusives don't matter as you say.

We've already addressed 'PS was more popular back in the days'.
They're even in performance currenr-gen and Series has a cheaper model than Sony has.

 

[midnightAI]

People on GAF still don't realize how impossible this is to work for MS. There's less than a 1% chance a Xbox-PC hybrid can work. Only people that don't understand the industry thinks this is a workable idea.

An Xbox-PC hybrid is just a PC, possibly a PC you cannot upgrade

I dont think they'll do that personally, I am inclined to think they will stick to what they are doing now but instead of a cheaper console (Series S) they will have a dockable handheld, but I still don't think either will run Windows. Now will it be able to run a version of Steam? maybe, even then, not so sure they will want to do that, it will dilute their XBox/Gamepass efforts and I cant see them dropping those as that will not go down well with the current XBox crowd

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Brilliant

 

[gooner4life_uk]

The Xbox 360 sales were not a true indicator, it was an incredible console, but the RrOD meant i didn't know a single Xbox 360 owner who only bought 1 Xbox 360, they all had at least 3, so the sales were inflated by that, I had a launch premium, launch core, then I got an elite when my premium got the RrOD then I got an Xbox 360S when my Elite got the RrOD

 

[Cakeboxer]

I edited my post, I misread your previous one.

We're back at the main question:

Why are Series sales being dwarfed by PS5, if exclusives don't matter as you say.

We've already addressed 'PS was more popular back in the days'.
They're even in performance and Series has a cheaper model than Sony has.

Then read my other posts again as well, i already answered it. Nintendo would be another story, they would be dead without exclusives.
Here is my summary: Most people buy Nintendo consoles for exclusives, most people buy XB/PS for 3rd party.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Nintendo would be another story, they would be dead without exclusives.
Here is my summary: Most people buy Nintendo consoles for exclusives, most people buy XB/PS for 3rd party.

So, exclusives matter.

Edit:

So, exclusives decide which platform they ultimately pick.

It's also why Playstation got popular in the first place.

 

[cireza]

Then why do you buy their consoles?

To play third party games, obviously.

 

[Topher]

Imagine just sitting around waiting for some tiny bit of news so you can run to gaf giggle about. All that time wasted that you could be playing horizon.

Imagine staring at this thread for hours trying to come up with something clever to say.......and this is the best you can do.

Damn Topher

You giggle freak you!

Responses like his make sacrificing my time playing horizon all worth while.

 

[Cakeboxer]

So, exclusives matter.

Thank you.

You should take a look at your first post quoting me, I excluded Nintendo on purpose. But you are welcome.

 

[evolve]

People on GAF still don't realize how impossible this is to work for MS. There's less than a 1% chance a Xbox-PC hybrid can work. Only people that don't understand the industry thinks this is a workable idea.

In my opinion it's a smart move. They could just license it to 3rd party manufacturers. It would allow them to not commit to it the way they are now, would allow them to also cut the costs down, have all the games (no more games skipping xbox, no more paying for ports) while also give something to those who still care about the xbox ecosystem and/or have their libraries there.

I don't think the plan is to compete with sony 1vs1 like they tried in the past. It's about making xbox just another way to play their games, for real this time, and not just in words like it is today where xbox is still kind of the main entry point if you want to play Halo or gears or whatever.

 

[Fess]

People on GAF still don't realize how impossible this is to work for MS. There's less than a 1% chance a Xbox-PC hybrid can work. Only people that don't understand the industry thinks this is a workable idea.

Well that's the rumour and what the super fans on X are hinting at. If that's impossible and Xbox Next is just a regular console then the fans "marching orders" will cause whatever it is to seem like a major disappointment. No PC hybrid = No Steam access. And no Steam access = bomba.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

You should take a look at your first post quoting me, I excluded Nintendo on purpose. But you are welcome.

Yes, I edited my previous post.

If most casuals buy PS or Xbox for 3rd party, both platforms rn offer pretty much exactly the same features and cross-platform play is standard, there's only one factor that pushes consumers to one platform over the other.

But we went in circles long enough, though. It's nice to go through the gens to highlight the necessity of MS to become a 3rd party publisher.

 

[mckmas8808]

In my opinion it's a smart move. They could just license it to 3rd party manufacturers. It would allow them to not commit to it the way they are now, would allow them to also cut the costs down, have all the games (no more games skipping xbox, no more paying for ports) while also give something to those who still care about the xbox ecosystem and/or have their libraries there.

I don't think the plan is to compete with sony 1vs1 like they tried in the past. It's about making xbox just another way to play their games, for real this time, and not just in words like it is today where xbox is still kind of the main entry point if you want to play Halo or gears or whatever.

Nah, man I'm sorry but it's not a smart move. It's an automatic losing hand. It's a no-win situation. If the next Xbox is a PC hybrid, you need to understand that means the Xbox brand would be no more! It because a limited PC at that point. There's a reason Steam Machine PCs didn't become a thing.

 

[Negotiator101]

The moment Indiana Jones was announced for PS at an official show before it even released on Xbox, it was quite clear where things were going.

Was it? Where exactly are things going? I don't think anyone including you can make any kind of definitive statement regarding what and when any game will be Multiplatform. Anyone who is in the everything will go Multiplatform side is IMO far off the mark. That at least now is not likely given what we know about next gen hardware and the significant push Gamepass continues to get.

 

[Cakeboxer]

But we went in circles long enough MS to become a 3rd party publisher.

Two things we can agree on. They should make one last console as a fan service and that's it. Full 3rd party game publisher afterwards.

 

[poppabk]

Lmao, people do buy consoles for exclusives. It's the one of the few reasons to buy a specific console. I see people all the time talk about how their just going to buy a ps5 since their getting Xbox games plus PS exclusives.

If Forza Horizon 5 wasn't on PC, I would have a reason to buy an Xbox but its not, and Xbox has lost that as a draw to Xbox.

I think most people buy a console for the brand - but exclusives do play a big part in establishing that brand. For some people specific games are essential - but for the Fifa, CoD, Fortnite crowd, who let's face it make up the majority of gamers - they are buying in to the brand more than the exclusive games. And the PS brand has kept its 'must have' image, whereas the xbox brand has the stink of failure on it.

 

[Mr Moose]

Wait, so now we believe MS?

He isn't Phil Spencer, and this isn't Xbox fanboys he's talking to. So, yes?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Two things we can agree on. They should make one last console as a fan service and that's it. Full 3rd party game publisher afterwards.

I think one last console would be a wasted effort, but if they'd be content with ~20M sales, I don't see why they couldn't present a farewell gift for their most hardcore fans.

I'd just pull the plug straight away, personally.

 

[Markio128]

Ironically MS, if you release good games on Ps5, we'll actually buy the fuckers.

Personally, I'm only really interested in Forza (preferably 4) because it would play well with the dual sense controller, and would look mint on the PS5 Pro.

 

[Klayzer]

Of course a topic about Xbox going 3rd party had to turn into "But Sony will end up there as well. it's not an Xbox problem. sony is flopping too"

 

[GHG]

To play third party games, obviously.

Well obviously, but in doing so you've managed to select the platform that has the most doubt surrounding it's future.

 

[twilo99]

Such a good guy this Satya fellow

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/24/microsoft-ceo-nadella-requested-pay-reduction-after-security-incidents.html

 

[Cakeboxer]

I think one last console would be a wasted effort, but if they'd be content with ~20M sales, I don't see why they couldn't present a farewell gift for their most hardcore fans.

I'd just pull the plug straight away, personally.

Agreed, but unfortunatley they already said there will be another gen. Waste of ressources, but won't hurt Microsoft.

 

[evolve]

Nah, man I'm sorry but it's not a smart move. It's an automatic losing hand. It's a no-win situation. If the next Xbox is a PC hybrid, you need to understand that means the Xbox brand would be no more! It because a limited PC at that point. There's a reason Steam Machine PCs didn't become a thing.

Losing hand in what sense? If you think of it from a traditional 'console war' pov, they completely lost it the moment they decided to put their games on PS.

When I think of Xbox hardware in the future I think of Surface. And the games and services they are pushing and pushing on every platform and device are basically just like Office, Teams etc Surface is just an optional hardware where Microsoft enthusiasts can use those apps. That's what xbox the console is becoming.
The way it is now, Xbox is still the main entry point to their software. That's like holding back their production apps because people aren't buying a Surface Tablet.

I have no doubt in my mind that's the way Satya sees it.

 

[Klayzer]

So, exclusives matter.

Edit:

So, exclusives decide which platform they ultimately pick.

It's also why Playstation got popular in the first place.

Lol. Dude is trying to ignore the elephant (exclusives) in the room.

 

[Fess]

Nah, man I'm sorry but it's not a smart move. It's an automatic losing hand. It's a no-win situation. If the next Xbox is a PC hybrid, you need to understand that means the Xbox brand would be no more! It because a limited PC at that point. There's a reason Steam Machine PCs didn't become a thing.

My hope is that it give birth to a dedicated OS focused on the living room. Like SteamOS. And 100% compatible with regular Windows so no new versions needed from devs. Can have regular Windows as a separate boot for file access stuff like how you boot into Linux on Steam Deck. Touch pad on controller.

 

[Ozriel]

Both are true though.

Both are objectively false, though.

Then read my other posts again as well, i already answered it. Nintendo would be another story, they would be dead without exclusives.
Here is my summary: Most people buy Nintendo consoles for exclusives, most people buy XB/PS for 3rd party.

The choice between Xbox and PS is mostly driven by exclusives, and PS has the upper hand in that regard. Hence the much better sales.

 

[mckmas8808]

Losing hand in what sense? If you think of it from a traditional 'console war' pov, they completely lost it the moment they decided to put their games on PS.

When I think of Xbox hardware in the future I think of Surface. And the games and services they are pushing and pushing on every platform and device are basically just like Office, Teams etc Surface is just an optional hardware where Microsoft enthusiasts can use those apps. That's what xbox the console is becoming.
The way it is now, Xbox is still the main entry point to their software. That's like holding back their production apps because people aren't buying a Surface Tablet.

I have no doubt in my mind that's the way Satya sees it.

Losing hand in the sense of relevance. The "Xbox" brand will start to go away. If they want it to be more like MS Surface, then they may as well change their gaming sector to be "Microsoft Gaming" instead.

 

[evolve]

Losing hand in the sense of relevance. The "Xbox" brand will start to go away. If they want it to be more like MS Surface, then they may as well change their gaming sector to be "Microsoft Gaming" instead.

 

[Topher]

Losing hand in the sense of relevance. The "Xbox" brand will start to go away. If they want it to be more like MS Surface, then they may as well change their gaming sector to be "Microsoft Gaming" instead.

They already did that

 

[Klayzer]

Slowly, but surely, Microsoft is moving away from Xbox as a premiere platform.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Why is Krillin in that picture?

Vegeta, you're not gonna...make my games exclusive too, are ya? Guess I'll have to give it my all too! Destructo Disc!

 

[Punished Miku]

Losing hand in the sense of relevance. The "Xbox" brand will start to go away. If they want it to be more like MS Surface, then they may as well change their gaming sector to be "Microsoft Gaming" instead.

You're so wrong that not only will Xbox clearly be going this route, but Sony will 100% follow suite as well. I don't even put Nintendo off the table on this.

It'll be a little green icon that you can load up on your phone. It'll have cloud versions of everything you've ever purchased, plus all GP content and mobile content. It'll have their own store integrated into it. Or you can load the same thing on any capable PC or any of the various handhelds and download local copies to play offline. Or play it on TVs, browsers, anything.

The only branding they need is "green." It's a little green icon. Netflix is a little red icon. Doesn't matter that it isn't DVDs anymore. Netflix is now games, movies, TV shows. The point is its going to be everywhere. Sony is literally already porting most of their stuff to PC.

Your comment about "people not understanding the industry" is going to be funny when you're 100% wrong on everything you're claiming. I genuinely think a lot of people that only game on PS are about a decade behind in terms of realizing what is happening. You guys still think they're going to making discs for you forever.

 

[Klayzer]

You're so wrong that not only will Xbox clearly be going this route, but Sony will 100% follow suite as well. I don't even put Nintendo off the table on this.

It'll be a little green icon that you can load up on your phone. It'll have cloud versions of everything you've ever purchased, plus all GP content and mobile content. It'll have their own store integrated into it. Or you can load the same thing on any capable PC or any of the various handhelds and download local copies to play offline. Or play it on TVs, browsers, anything.

The only branding they need is "green." It's a little green icon. Netflix is a little red icon. Doesn't matter that it isn't DVDs anymore. Netflix is now games, movies, TV shows. The point is its going to be everywhere. Sony is literally already porting most of their stuff to PC.

Your comment about "people not understanding the industry" is going to be funny when you're 100% wrong on everything you're claiming. I genuinely think a lot of people that only game on PS are about a decade behind in terms of realizing what is happening. You guys still think they're going to making discs for you forever.

SonyToo: Electric Bugaloo

 

[poppabk]

Losing hand in the sense of relevance. The "Xbox" brand will start to go away. If they want it to be more like MS Surface, then they may as well change their gaming sector to be "Microsoft Gaming" instead.

They kinda did. Let's face it MS suck at hardware - it's just failure after failure every single market they have tried. There biggest hardware success was a console that is synonymous with coffins and death.

 

[Brucey]

He's like that Japanese soldier who carried on fighting way past 1944

I think Aaron Greenberg needs to debrief him now.

I don't think Tubby can ascend any kind of hilly terrain to tell him to stand down.