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Harold and Kumar 1 and 2.

Don't forget A Very Harold & Kumar 3D Christmas.

 

[MHWilliams]

I said this in the Box Office thread:

Geez. Wonder why GITS did so bad.

I figured it would have had some mass market appeal. The white washing controversy hurt it a lot or will anime adaptions just never be popular?

Because there was no interesting pitch to audiences.

Here's a random trailer.

ScarJo is a future cop or assassin, who was remade into a new body. Ok? That's the premise of Robocop, and at least the trailers for that showed who he was before everything went down. Why should they care?

it makes me wonder just why the hell lucy opened with $40 million, thereby convincing people scar jo's a bankable action lead.

The pitch: A woman accidentally takes a drug that unlocks the hidden potential of the human brain. Here's a trailer for that. Which looks more interesting and straightforward?

Also, Lucy was up against Hercules, the second week of The Purge: Anarchy, and the third week of Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. GITS is bookended by Power Rangers, Logan, Kong: Skull Island ahead and Fate of the Furious in two weeks.

GITS, even at its best, is a hard sell for a blockbuster action scifi film. Then you change the source material, so now part of the hardcore audience behind the brand dip a bit. Some want an Asian actress in the role, so the audience dip a bit again. And then it goes up against what it did at the box office.

And two other posts about how star power has been bunk for a while. This is just another example for the pile.

 

[Wood Man]

Live action anime just isn't meant to be.

 

[Escape Goat]

I think it had to do with people not being interested in what they were offering rather than any kind of whitewashing backlash.

 

[Stallion Dan]

To be honest I think it less the whitewashing and more the trailers looking shit.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

You gotta be kidding right? There's way more than just hollywood. Not long ago you even started seeing south korean actors make the leap into hollywood. They even made a ninja movie with that Rain dude.

This whole Ghost in the Shell shit is like asking a japanese movie studio to make an unforgiven adaptation, and shoot it with white folks playing cowboys. Which thankfully they didnt, and adapted it to their own sensibilites and culture.

Asian Americans =/= Asian Asians
The Korean and Chinese film industry is not a remedy for under representation of Asians/Asian Americans in America. How many of those Asian films even get a wide release in America?
Which of those Korean actors were leading men? Ninja Assassin? You say whitewashing isn't partially responsible for a movie bombing. Then say Asian-led Hollywood films bomb cause they are Asian-led. So which is it?

 

[Aaron]

Expect Akira to do even worse if Hollywood actually goes through with it.

 

[jett]

The Matrix has a very unique look, the basic ideas were inspired by GiTS but it does its own thing.

Nothing looks like GiTS out there, specially live action, so it's a shame this movie ended up being this bad.

This live action GitS movie doesn't look anything like GitS '95 either.

 

[Dice//]

While this is perhaps naive considering the way they've gone so far, anime adaptations potentially could've provided the most opportunities for Asian actors in Hollywood so I do find it unfortunate.

Interesting hypothetical, and it does make me wonder...

 

[Wag]

anime is box-office poison

Anime, maybe. But this wasn't anime, it was a live action adaption of anime. Good sci-fi movies usually win out. Unfortunately this wasn't one of those...

 

[chromatic9]

I doubt the whitewashing had much to do with it. I'd wager most people don't know what its based on or have heard of the whitewashing controversy. It's just not a compelling movie for the mainstream.

 

[border]

Pacific Rim made a profit but not a huge one. The studio was very wishy-washy on wanting to do a sequel after it under-performed according to their expectations. Up to the point where GDT moved on to other projects and it was reported that the project was shelved. After that it was delayed indefinitely when the Wanda buyout occured. It was only after Boyega came on board as an EP and star that the movie was officially greenlit. John Boyega is absolutely the reason Pacific Rim 2 is happening.

That actually makes me kind of worried about Boyega. He cannot have made that much money from Star Wars. It seems insane to take that all that Star Wars money and bet it on another Pacific Rim.

Not to mention that it's generally considered a bad idea to use your own money to finance a film.

 

[RuhRo]

This feels like yet another casualty of the shrinking space for medium-sized movies in Hollywood. To retain the flavor of the '95 film, this should have been a more cerebral, art-house science fiction movie in the vein of Danny Boyle's 'Sunshine', Soderbergh's 'Solaris' remake, or something like 'District 9'. Something with inventive visuals, but at an economic, smaller scale. All this movie's problems stem from it being shoehorned into a lumbering Hollywood tent pole. At a budget of, say, $30 million, you could retain the philosophical ruminations and avoid the boilerplate self-discovery story that seems to be failing to connect with people. You could also, with far less controversy, cast an Asian lead with name recognition in the ballpark of Rinko Kikuchi. (This wouldn't even necessitate making it an all-Japanese cast - the New Port City setting does lend itself well to multiculturalism, and you could cast supporting roles like Batou with actors of other races to fill out a diverse looking movie poster, if you were hung up on Western marketability.)

But this is what happens when the people in charge of green light decisions are under the impression that the only types of movies are microbudget indies and $100 million plus monstrosities. See The Golden Compass for another smart, philosophical property that got crammed into a superbudgeted mold and stripped of everything that makes the source material resonate in the process.

Right now, the only place for medium-budget fare like this - projects that should be contemplative, offbeat, and led by someone other than the handful of bankable white movie stars at the top of the Hollywood hierarchy - is television.

 

[Jezan]

Pacific Rim made a profit but not a huge one. The studio was very wishy-washy on wanting to do a sequel after it under-performed according to their expectations. Up to the point where GDT moved on to other projects and it was reported that the project was shelved. After that it was delayed indefinitely when the Wanda buyout occured. It was only after Boyega came on board as an EP and star that the movie was officially greenlit. John Boyega is absolutely the reason Pacific Rim 2 is happening.

Now that Inthink about it, PacRim is a great example of how representation helps.
The movie forced Gipsy Danger to the spot light, that mean Raleigh the white guy would be the main character even if the story is about Mako, the Japanese girl.

Russia, China, Korea, Japan and Mexico were the ones making money, specially China (can't really compare with them, but for the point we will use all those countries). Because they were represented one way or another or because they had something to do with the movie lore wise. Russians and Chinese had pilots along with a Jaeger basically carrying those flags, Korea because it's part of the real Pacific Rim and in the lore they also had a Jaeger, Mexico because it's Japan lite but with unchecked corruption so they also love anime,mechas and all that and Japan because of mechas and one character being Japanese.

And it would be pretty stupid if PacRim 2 doesn't capitalize on those countries by having a Jaeger from there. But I guess the first one already burned those options and we will see an impact depending on the inclusion of China/Russia Jaegers again.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

This feels like yet another casualty of the shrinking space for medium-sized movies in Hollywood. To retain the flavor of the '95 film, this should have been a more cerebral, art-house science fiction movie in the vein of Danny Boyle's 'Sunshine', Soderbergh's 'Solaris' remake, or something like 'District 9'. All this movie's problems stem from it being shoehorned into a lumbering Hollywood tent pole. At a budget of, say, $30 million, you could retain the philosophical ruminations and avoid the boilerplate self-discovery story that seems to be failing to connect with people. You could also, with far less controversy, cast an Asian lead with name recognition in the ballpark of Rinko Kikuchi. (This wouldn't even necessitate making it an all-Japanese cast - the New Port City setting does lend itself well to multiculturalism, and you could cast supporting roles like Batou with actors of other races to fill out a diverse looking movie poster, if you were hung up on Western marketability.)

But this is what happens when the people in charge of green light decisions are under the impression that the only types of movies are microbudget indies and $100 million plus monstrosities. See The Golden Compass for another smart, philosophical property that got crammed into a superbudgeted mold and stripped of everything that makes the source material resonate in the process.

Right now, the only place for medium-budget fare like this - projects that should be contemplative, offbeat, and led by someone other than the handful of bankable white movie stars at the top of the Hollywood hierarchy - is television.

Denis Villaneuve could have done an amazing job with GitS. Sicario has a very Oshii pacing to it with how it breaks up the military action with slow lingering moments. He could have made a very thought provoking sci-fi film about the human condition and identity. Oh well, Blade Runner 2 will satisfy that.

 

[Sarcastic Poster]

It failed because it was unappealing and poorly marketed. An Asian or Asian-American in the lead role would've just made it either flop harder, or flop equally on a lower budget.

 

[TDLink]

I think the Pacific Rim sequel does worse than the first.

It might, it might not. I really think it can go either way depending on how good the movie actually is and what the marketing is like. I think the premise is solid and something there's an audience for. The original film clearly did alright but it was a film that was merely okay. A much better movie in that franchise could bring in more money.

That actually makes me kind of worried about Boyega. He cannot have made that much money from Star Wars. It seems insane to take that all that Star Wars money and bet it on another Pacific Rim.

Not to mention that it's generally considered a bad idea to use your own money to finance a film.

He'll be fine. It's not like he used all of his Star Wars money for this. And he has at least two more Star Wars movies coming out. But yes it's generally a bad idea to self-finance. There are other financiers on Pacific rim 2 though, not just John Boyega's bank account. I'm just saying that is a major factor in this film getting made.

 

[norm9]

I saw Lucy becasue of Luc Besson.

 

[jett]

That actually makes me kind of worried about Boyega. He cannot have made that much money from Star Wars. It seems insane to take that all that Star Wars money and bet it on another Pacific Rim.

Not to mention that it's generally considered a bad idea to use your own money to finance a film.

Is Boyega really self-financing Pacific Rim 2? Man good luck to him if so.

 

[border]

At a budget of, say, $30 million, you could retain the philosophical ruminations and avoid the boilerplate self-discovery story that seems to be failing to connect with people. You could also, with far less controversy, cast an Asian lead with name recognition in the ballpark of Rinko Kikuchi.

As has been pointed out in one of the recent box office threads about box office profitability, most major releases require about 40-50 million dollars for distribution and marketing anyway. So even if the production budget is only 30 million, you're still rapidly approaching a 100 million dollar budget for the project in its entirity.

Ex Machina, the more low-scale cousin of Ghost in the Shell, only did about 30 million dollars in box office. I think it may simply be the case that there isn't room for projects like this in the film industry......particularly if you wanted to go the more ponderous and philosophical route.

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

But I thought casting a popular white actress as an originally Asian character would make the movie bankable


Weird

.

 

[Sarcastic Poster]

As has been pointed out in one of the recent box office threads about box office profitability, most major releases require about 40-50 million dollars for distribution and marketing anyway. So even if the production budget is only 30 million, you're still rapidly approaching a 100 million dollar budget for the project in its entirity.

Ex Machina, the more low-scale cousin of Ghost in the Shell, only did about 30 million dollars in box office. I think it may simply be the case that there isn't room for projects like this in the film industry......particularly if you wanted to go the more ponderous and philosophical route.

The mid-range of literally everything is being phased out by rampant capitalism unfortunately. Everything has blockbuster aspirations for investors.

 

[Acorn]

I don't know if I'd put this down to a reaction towards the white washing. I doubt the majority of cinemagoers even know or care of the anime.

It certainly wouldn't have helped though.

 

[TDLink]

Is Boyega really self-financing Pacific Rim 2? Man good luck to him if so.

The producers are John Boyega, Angarag Davaasuren, GDT, Jon Jashni, Eric Mcleod, Femi Oguns, Mary Parent, and Thomas Tull.

Production company is Legendary, Distributor is Universal.

There's also a Chinese Production Company, Perfect World Pictures.

 

[Rumblebones]

Good.

Get fucked Hollywood.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

The trailers are kind of butt, there's not really any of those satisfying one-liners or pieces of action that usually sell a flick. They mostly relying on cityscapes and high-contrast visuals

 

[sun-drop]

way to go internet - it's hard enough getting stuff like this green lit with any budget at all i imagine ... but insecure whitewashing BS had this movie in a hole from the get go.

 

[anaron]

Marketing started strong and then got super generic and boring with everything following the first great trailer

 

[old manatee]

way to go internet - it's hard enough getting stuff like this green lit with any budget at all i imagine ... but insecure whitewashing BS had this movie in a hole from the get go.

Yeah man, it's hard out here for a whitewashed movie.

 

[RuhRo]

Denis Villaneuve could have done an amazing job with GitS. Sicario has a very Oshii pacing to it with how it breaks up the military action with slow lingering moments. He could have made a very thought provoking sci-fi film about the human condition and identity. Oh well, Blade Runner 2 will satisfy that.

Yes - and his 'Arrival' ($50 million) is another good example of scale and tone that would have suited Ghost in the Shell. A very visual film, but at a contained scale, with a cerebral feel and deliberate pace. I don't know how anyone could watch Oshii's film and think "You know what this should be? A balls-out, punch in the face of an action flick."

 

[Not]

It didn't bomb because of whitewashing, if anything, it would have bombed harder if it was a cast of asians.

And this will always be the case. Until it's not. So when will it be not?

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

way to go internet - it's hard enough getting stuff like this green lit with any budget at all i imagine ... but insecure whitewashing BS had this movie in a hole from the get go.

Aww poor animes.

Whitewashing wasn't the sole factor against it you know.

 

[Jotaka]

I said this in the Box Office thread:



GITS, even at its best, is a hard sell for a blockbuster action scifi film. Then you change the source material, so now part of the hardcore audience behind the brand dip a bit. Some want an Asian actress in the role, so the audience dip a bit again. And then it goes up against what it did at the box office.

And two other posts about how star power has been bunk for a while. This is just another example for the pile.

Just to add:
This is the 1995 anime trailer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2MEaROKjaE


Its complete different take about the what the movie is about.



And

Fuck You Hollywood. Get rekt!

 

[Alebrije]

Scarlet J. earned 17.5 million dollars for this movie , this is one of the reasons movies bombs these days , actors earning huge amount of money has to end and it seems this will happen soon since movie industry is strugling.

Yep , they are talented people but even 5 million dollar earnign is tons of money for a movie, if an lead actor does one movie every two years with that income on 20 years they got 50 md.

 

[GabeTheGrouch76]

Not suprising since the source material was pure garbage to begin with.

Spoiler

Really surprised at how well xDUMPWEEDx's avatar and gif in his post worked as an immediate reaction response.

 

[Not]

Replace Johansen with a unknown asian actress just to please people and even less people would of watched it.

Why not get a good script and a better director and then cast an Asian actress, and then we'll talk, hmm?

 

[Johndoey]

Not suprising since the source material was pure garbage to begin with.

Yep.

But also no. This movie is bad for reasons unrelated to the original.

 

[///PATRIOT]

I'm glad they cast Scarjo. Could you imagine the conclusion Hollywood would come to if it bombed with an Asian lead?

Hate to agree with this.

 

[LotusHD]

Spoiler

Really surprised at how well xDUMPWEEDx's avatar and gif in his post worked as an immediate reaction response.

lmao

 

[MikeMyers]

See, that's a bit more like it!

And I don't see how using Indian actors is cheating, since they're just as under-represented in Hollywood films as any other Asian country.

Does Slumdog Millionaire count? British film but English speaking western film with a South Asian lead.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

I guess it'd have been better if GitS got a live action Netflix series treatment.

 

[Ridley327]

Does Slumdog Millionaire count? British film but English speaking western film with a South Asian lead.

It absolutely does!

 

[lightskintwin]

Scarlet J. earned 17.5 million dollars for this movie , this is one of the reasons movies bombs these days , actors earning huge amount of money has to end and it seems this will happen soon since movie industry is strugling.

Yep , they are talented people but even 5 million dollar earnign is tons of money for a movie, if an lead actor does one movie every two years with that income on 20 years they got 50 md.

That's what actor's are supposed to do, gain enough leverage to get a big payday. The success of Lucy directly led to her being rewarded with her Ghost in the Shell check.

 

[Not]

this movie would bomb without scarjo

> movie bombs

this movie was gonna bomb either way

Haha, yep

 

[Bedlam]

Yeah, I loved her back in Lost in Translation but these days Scarjo is a complete turn-off for me. Between Black Widow and Lucy I've seen her emotionless tough girl face way too much already. No need for more.

I was mildly interested in the source material but not on nowadays' Hollywood's take on it.

 

[Aaron]

I guess it'd have been better if GitS got a live action Netflix series treatment.

Feels both too effects heavy and too limited market to have a chance of being a decent series.

 

[MisterHero]

Movie should've been more toyetic.

Mattel could've made a GitS-branded Barbie that you put together from 30-100 different pieces or something

people like toys. even if the new Power Rangers toys look like piles of poop

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Anime was a mistake

 

[Not]

On the subject of whitewashing in Western Entertainment, this specific debate in relation to Ghost In The Shell and the context that surrounds the project has proved to be something of a particularly tender subject with me.

About a year ago, a thread was posted around this very topic (specifically, in relation to Johannson’s casting in the lead role in Ghost in the Shell) on this very forum…which promptly lead to a similar discussion on the ongoing trend of white-washing in cinema which I readily engaged in. At the time, in looking back to my own attitude within the discussion, I can recognize that I actually acted painfully arrogant in regards to fully understanding the various issues involved…fully recognizing the need for greater racial diversity in film, but at the same time, also fully sympathizing with the prevailing mindset within the film-industry that, undoubtedly, only leads to Asian actors getting short-changed when it comes to attaining more prominent roles in both film and television. In essence, in my ascribing to tried and tested “Star Power” formula which I felt so much of the film industry had come to revolve around, I felt that because there were so very few bankable, A-List Asian actors within the film industry…that purely from a business point of view, it was hard for me to actively resent and decry studios for making those kind of casting decisions. I reasoned that I could understand the reasoning behind a studio hiring a white actress over an Asian actress, if their basis for doing so purely amounted to simply slapping the biggest name they could possibly get on the poster as a means of luring more people into the theatre, and that such a motivation existed outside the sphere of any kind of racist bias.

Thankfully however, through the benefit of time allowing me better perspective....but more importantly still...upon reading the numerous discussions that have taken place around this debate within this community alone…I’ve since come to realise that not only was that perspective dangerously arrogant, it was also exactly the kind of attitude that only helps to encourage the kind of thinking that continues to push back against diversity in film and television and which excludes greater racial representation in the various types of media I continue to enjoy. Sometimes when it comes to ugly trends within the film industry, apathy can be the worst response....even in reaction to those trends that might not affect me directly as an individual.

Because yes, the numerous critics of Johannson's casting at the time for Ghost In The Shell were absolutely right on this. The studio was wrong. And ultimately, I think they still would have been wrong, even if this particular film proved to be an enormous box office success.

For many working actors who happen to belong to any kind of minority group working within the entertainment industry today (in this particular case, Asian actors)….I think, it often proves to be a struggle to secure roles that don’t specifically revolve around their ethnicity. And as such, those particular performers aren’t afforded the same wealth of opportunities that white actors in the West continue to enjoy, affording them far less freedom and flexibility in terms of their careers in comparison to their white contemporaries. With this in mind, when a precious opportunity opens up that specifically calls for a minority to take on a leading role in a particularly high profile project…it should always an opportunity that should be seized readily. In this instance, in granting minority actors those kind of opportunities, you not only help to introduce more racial and cultural diversity into an industry that so sorely requires it…but even in a more practical sense, it will be a means that will allow minority actors to attain far greater visibility in terms of their careers, helping to create more bankable and identifiable stars which the studio won’t need to be so resistant to hiring in the future. It's a means of breaking the cycle that the film industry (and to a lesser extent, the television industry) seems to be so terrified to break out of.

Furthermore though, in terms of doing our part, when it comes to these particular casting decisions in relation to studios choosing to hire white actors over other actors belonging to different minority’s (like with Ghost In The Shell, or indeed with Doctor Strange or something like The Last Airbender)…I think it’s perhaps equally important that people make a conscious effort to support minority actors, as well as any projects they might be actively involved in, as a means of helping the entertainment industry to view those actors as much more of a risk, in comparison to the predominantly white actors they view to be more bankable leading stars. If money is all the studios understand, perhaps people should use their money to send a message. And if one studio gets the message, perhaps the rest will fall in line, helping to gradually phase out the industry’s compulsive need to hand over valuable minority roles to white actors at almost each and every turn. Perhaps then hopefully, the issue of white-washing will prove to be a thing of the past, as we these industries can move on to creating a far more interesting and racially diverse cultural landscape in regards to broader racial representation.

If anything good has come out of this Ghost In The Shell controversy, I would say how that it's encouraged these debates about the prevalent issue of white-washing in the entertainment industry, allowing many minority groups to give voice to their growing concerns about the issue. In doing so, these subsequent discussions have helped to enlighten people like myself....who were once adopted much more arrogant and dismissive attitudes about this particular issue. And although that certainly might not be viewed as progress enough in regards to helping the film and television industry move past the recurring problem of white-washing...I think I would still view that as a positive, if admittedly small, change all the same, even if there's still so much more progress to be made.

Sorry about the essay, or if I'm literally just repeating the same points everyone else has made in this discussion in the most ineloquent manner imaginable. Please forgive me.

Fucking solid post

 

[Korey]

Scarlet J. earned 17.5 million dollars for this movie , this is one of the reasons movies bombs these days , actors earning huge amount of money has to end and it seems this will happen soon since movie industry is strugling.

... I guess they made just enough money to pay Scarlett Johansson then lol