I'll say this, while its regrettable that they whitewashed Makoto, they should have been congratulated for the amount of diversity it had. Particularly with regards to the amount of asian cast members.
They're not going to get a pat in the back for casting a diverse Section 9 if they're missing from most of the movie. They have a homogeneous cast where it matters the most: protagonist, side-kick, villain, and the members of Hanka robotics we spend the most time with are all white.
Perhaps its a John Carter situation where the original source has been borrowed from and improved upon by other films, shows, and books that once Hollywood finally adapted the original source, the adaptation is considered bland and derivative and uninteresting.
Unfortunately this is horseshit because ever since ScarJo was cast, the internet has been primed and ready to hate this movie. They could have done any number of things and it wouldn't have absolved it.
It's #1 sin, in the eyes of people who will never even see it to appreciate the incredible cinematography, is that the lead actress isn't Japanese - end of discussion. If they figured out a way to make it acceptable, it would mean that people would lose this sacrificial lamb. This is one of the first of many upcoming Hollywood adaptations of anime and this is their biggest and best chance to cause a stir.
So if anything good comes of this, it'll be that future movies might take notice. The bad thing is that a lot of people will not come to understand that this is a very competent movie in its own right. Instead it just becomes a circle jerk for YouTubers to go paste an angry head in a thumbnail and repeat the same exact shit some other YouTuber is saying, the hottest of takes.
As for the whitewashing, the movie is so fucking aware of this that it writes it into the script. They knew it was unavoidable so they made sure the movie was screaming at the audience "WE KNOW." The odds of this ever being made without ScarJo attached are 0.
Do you actually believe that your proposed solution would have made anyone less outraged? If they ignored it entirely? At least they had the conscience and the balls to address it somehow. And luckily, it actually made sense with both the subject material of the movie and the running theme(s) of the movie.
The reviews making a giant deal out of it are 100% doing it for clicks. It's honestly pathetic.
Yes. Just like Death Note is doing its own thing. Making her a Japanese woman in a white body is worse. I'd give the movie points for having balls if they actually killed Scarjo body and put her in a little girl body like in the original. Or a man's body. Or an Asian or black or whatever body. At least then I'd know they gave a shit about the running theme and had the balls to execute on it fully. But as it stands now, the casting is a business decision being masqueraded as a bold and self aware progressive commentary on white washing.
Unfortunately this is horseshit because ever since ScarJo was cast, the internet has been primed and ready to hate this movie. They could have done any number of things and it wouldn't have absolved it.
While I don't speak for the rest of the Internet I was honestly okay with her casted and while perhaps the other ways to address the issue wouldn't absolved it completely they went with the worst way possible
I was the creepy old man by himself in the theater at 5:30 earlier this evening as my wife had zero interest in seeing it, and although I am not what I would refer to as an anime expert by any means, I have watched a few, and GitS is always one of the ones I remember as really enjoying. Was also just a really shit week at work and I wanted an escape.
I was entertained. Visually there was some stunning stuff (although I did feel there were scenes they clearly spent way more money and time on as well).
Now I felt it never got anywhere near how deep the anime gets in regards to overall message and story itself, but it is interesting that I really do not recall many specifics about the anime now that I really think about it. I had to look it up but I suppose that is because it has been over a century since I watched it last. So I am going to watch the anime very soon to refresh my memory and see just how close or not they got to sticking to the overall storyline.
I just remember being blown away by the storyline in the anime, and while I thought the story in the movie was decent, it was pretty thin overall. Like I was not like "damn, this was deep" like I remember being for the anime. I am personally curious if that is because I was in my late 20's when I saw the anime originally and was just more easily impressed, or because the movie just really comes nowhere near the level of overall message the anime did. I am pretty certain it is the latter, but I am going to watch the anime, I may even start after this post, just to say for certain one way or the other.
Why did kuze just leave the futuristic usb drive behind after killing weird eyes lady? He clearly saw her take it off. Seems like a really cheap way to move the story along with major finding it.
Unfortunately this is horseshit because ever since ScarJo was cast, the internet has been primed and ready to hate this movie. They could have done any number of things and it wouldn't have absolved it.
Yes. Just like Death Note is doing its own thing. Making her a Japanese woman in a white body is worse. I'd give the movie points for having balls if they actually killed Scarjo body and put her in a little girl body like in the original. Or a man's body. Or an Asian or black or whatever body. At least then I'd know they gave a shit about the running theme and had the balls to execute on it fully. But as it stands now, the casting is a business decision being masqueraded as a bold and self aware progressive commentary on white washing.
It was pretty hardcore poop. Started to doze off midway through.
1. Visually, I didn't like it. I thought they went over board with the holograms. There was no real cohesion to it. The city looked 1999, but plastered in Holograms.
2. The story is a mess and made worse if you've actually seen the material. Largely they cherry picked everything and just made a large mess. When they simply could have adapted one of the 3 plot lines they cherry picked for it.
3. No one really had much development. You introduce the team, but they just sort of exist.
4. The action felt off like there was no impact to anything.
5. The actual whitewashing was just made worse. When I felt a fairly easy fix was possible.
"We've reached out to Paramount and Lola VFX for more on the reported effects tests and will update accordingly."
Well it's almost been a full year, too bad they never got in touch or updated the article. Like I said, this movie has been the target of these shoddy hit pieces since it was first announced.
Edit: If you go to their source, Screen Crush, you'll find this:
This story was fake as fuck and Polygon didn't bother updating it and Screen Crush buried the truth at the bottom of the entire article.
"We've reached out to Paramount and Lola VFX for more on the reported effects tests and will update accordingly."
Well it's almost been a full year, too bad they never got in touch or updated the article. Like I said, this movie has been the target of these shoddy hit pieces since it was first announced.
While Screen Crush reports that the ethnicity-altering visual effects were applied to Johansson specifically, Paramount refuted these claims in a statement.
"A test was done related to a specific scene for a background actor which was ultimately discarded," a representative told the website. "Absolutely no visual effects tests were conducted on Scarlett's character and we have no future plans to do so."
Again, why wouldn't an Asian or black or male body switch fly? Because Japan is a bunch of xenophobic pedos? That was your defense against the child body.
Saw it a few hours ago. I loved it. It felt faithful but also was adapted well enough to work as a live action film.
Visually, this film is stunning from end to end.
Scarjo was believable and great as Major, for sure, but my favorite character was Batou! He was so good! Pilou Asbæk was perfect for the role and looked just like him. I wasn't sure they could pull off the cybernetic eyes, but they did such a great job on them looking natural enough to work in live action. The chemistry between Major and Batou was also well done. There's a lot of subtle, understated moments that resonated with me between them.
I give this film a 8.5/10. Definitely will own it on bluray. Not expecting it to do well in theaters, but I hope it does well enough to merit a sequel.
I think the outrage over this film was unfair and unwarranted.
Scarjo was great as Major, for sure, but my favorite character was Batou! He was so good! Pilou Asbæk was perfect for the role and looked just like him lol. I wasn't sure they could pull off the cybernetic eyes, but they did such a great job on them looking natural enough to work in live action.
It was pretty hardcore poop. Started to doze off midway through.
1. Visually, I didn't like it. I thought they went over board with the holograms. There was no real cohesion to it. The city looked 1999, but plastered in Holograms.
2. The story is a mess and made worse if you've actually seen the material. Largely they cherry picked everything and just made a large mess. When they simply could have adapted one of the 3 plot lines they cherry picked for it.
3. No one really had much development. You introduce the team, but they just sort of exist.
4. The action felt off like there was no impact to anything.
5. The actual whitewashing was just made worse. When I felt a fairly easy fix was possible.
I edited my post after your quote coincidentally to flesh it out more, but it would be a real shame to not see more of Batou (and Togusa) in live action somehow. Pilou was amazing.
All of the main scientists were white and they had a white CEO doing all of this shit to Japanese people. The plot of the film is literally white people fucking over Asian people.
I had a laugh last night after coming back and realizing it.
Yeah. There were Asian cast members in key positions and they actually got Japanese actors and actresses to do it. I didn't know Kaori Momoi was in this and I was very pleasantly surprised when I found out in the opening credits.
Just got back from seeing it. Cards on the table I'm a very big fan of the original works (well... maybe not Arise) but I made my best effort to go in without those in mind (it didn't work). Some thoughts overall:
- Visuals were impressive at times, but almost a bit too overboard on the flashy futuristic visuals at times. Like someone thought of all the cool things they could then tried to add even MORE cool things.
- Lots of "western elements" present which don't add but rather detract from the story.
HAD to be a love interest. Had to have an evil corporation doing evil things with the usual threats about who's more powerful. Had to have all the technology use tropes - "Locked on target!" "Target eliminated". Even the cables that connected people had to have visual effects on them to show they were "doing things". Also that stupid phrase about consenting to stuff... that seemed like such a misshaped puzzle piece to be jammed in there.
Those are off the fop of my head but I'm probably blocking out a lot more
- Not much of a focus on the team like in GitS: SAC which I think is a shame since they're actually present in some form or fashion.
- (Cinematic opinion) In my head I'm remembering that the major was framed to be small compared to other characters quite a few times which I think diminished her presence and power. While she's definitely shorter than Batou in the anime the framing doesn't overemphasize this fact (on the boat, when looking down on project 2501 in the lab). Only scene that pops out where the height is apparent in my mind is the elevator scene and when Batou gives her his coat after the water fight.
- Emotions... the major showed too many in the film, like angrily storming off after the water fight. The major in the series is smart and doesn't act on emotion and unfortunately I didn't get the sense that translated into the film (maybe that would alienate the audience too much).
- The fights, especially the spider tank one, seemed to lack weight and never made me hold my breath or become tense. Gunshots bang bang bang scene resolved. Also the spider tank seemed to have some weird scale problems and the smoke at the end totally hid some bad quality CG "Legolas jumping" as she hopped up to the upper levels during that last battle.
All in all I feel like this film was made by someone who's friend saw the originals and described all the cool parts to them. "Oh dude there was this cool scene where they were fighting in water and the bullets made cool splashes or this awesome spider tank thing!". None of the magic was there for me.
This movie was so mediocre. Me and my friends were all cracking up at the "twist". None of us are familiar with GITS. The acting was not great, haha. Art design was cool.
It's Robocop. There is really no other way to describe it.
I really hoped to like it and it's just not really redeemable. The art style can't save it. It's Robocop with some scenes from the 96 anime tossed in for effect. And a mostly unrecognizable Kuze (from what he is in 2nd Gig).
The acting is all over the charts. Her fucking walk and neck posture (she does that forward extended neck). Also, (character spoiler)
Mom-Kusanagi seemed like she had been drinking heavily before the Major arrived
. Probably all side effects of a director that is all visuals and not much of an actor's director.
I don't really want to deep dive into the cultural stuff with her casting. However, it's pretty telling when they have to completely change large portions of her origin and focus an entire movie on it to make "okay". And it still feels off.
It's Robocop. There is really no other way to describe it.
I really hoped to like it and it's just not really redeemable. The art style can't save it. It's Robocop with some scenes from the 96 anime tossed in for effect. And a mostly unrecognizable Kuze (from what he is in 2nd Gig).
The acting is all over the charts. Her fucking walk and neck posture (she does that forward extended neck). Also, (character spoiler)
Mom-Kusanagi seemed like she had been drinking heavily before the Major arrived
. Probably all side effects of a director that is all visuals and not much of an actor's director.
I don't really want to deep dive into the cultural stuff with her casting. However, it's pretty telling when they have to completely change large portions of her origin and focus an entire movie on it to make "okay". And it still feels off.
They didn't change anything about her origin though other than actually explore it? It's an open book.
I thought the film managed to be pretty good despite some awkward, bad dialogue and a lacking integration of Section 9. The splashes of greatness aside from the amazing visuals throughout were anything involving the more intimate interaction between characters. I think they nailed those quieter moments.
I really want a sequel but I doubt that's going to happen. :/
I just saw it, Short Pro/Con:
+Really great visuals and cinematography
-Major is both more emotional in her actions and less expressive on her face than in the original. don't know how they managed to fuck this up THAT badly. Don't get me started on that stupid robotic walking motion she does.
-Other characters are extremely underdeveloped
-Music was unremarkable. Did not notice it, did not remember it.
-Plot was extremely shallow and predictable
-The directly lifted visual and story elements were both too numerous and literal and, for someone who has seen the original numerous times, became actually boring and the biggest problem of the film
+Perhaps that's why I enjoyed the new original scenes the most (
i.e. Major visits a prostitute and her mother, that Raid scene shot from above where they blow the night club door, the assault on Aramaki and a few others
)
-I hated how they
downright executed the CEO
. I had just watched SAC before and in that series they made such an extreme point of it that even though
Section 9 use lethal force all the time, they are still police and on the side of the law and keep even the worst criminals alive if at all possible to face a legal court of justice.
. That contrast made it stand out to me. It's just such a dumb American movie cliche that I'm completely fed up with.
I guess you could interpret Hanka Robotics as a white supremacist company.They're not going to get a pat in the back for casting a diverse Section 9 if they're missing from most of the movie. They have a homogeneous cast where it matters the most: protagonist, side-kick, villain, and the members of Hanka robotics we spend the most time with are all white.
It was pretty hardcore poop. Started to doze off midway through.
1. Visually, I didn't like it. I thought they went over board with the holograms. There was no real cohesion to it. The city looked 1999, but plastered in Holograms.
Also make the First movie, a average 6/10 movie or imo 7/10, and then make a Sequel, and make that wayyyy better, and then we have another Sequel that we can talk about amongst Sequels that are better than their originals like Aliens, Winter Soldier etc.
Its hard to get an amazing first movie and then a even more amazing Sequel these days.
Also make the First movie, a average 6/10 movie or imo 7/10, and then make a Sequel, and make that wayyyy better, and then we have another Sequel that we can talk about amongst Sequels that are better than their originals like Aliens, Winter Soldier etc.
Its hard to get an amazing first movie and then a even more amazing Sequel these days.
Saw it yesterday around lunchtime. I haven't ever seen any GitS before, so I was going in blind. I loved the aesthetics of Neo-Tokyo. It had a very Deus Ex and 80s future world look. I wasn't a fan of ScarJo's acting in this one. It felt a bit like she was bored. They need someone to choreograph better combat too. It was still entertaining enough for me.
I'd probably give it a 6 or 7 out of 10 (decent in my opinion).
Also, if they do a sequel, I've got high hopes for it. It felt like one of those movies that lays the groundwork for something really good to come.
I always thought the connection between Gits and The Matrix was tenuous at best.
People on it in both have implants in the neck to connect their brains to a cyber virtual network/world and... uh... that's it??
In Gits there is no kungfu, no costume leather & sunglasses style, no humans living in caverns, no AI winning a future war like Terminator, nothing.
Even that element of implants is different in the way it's used, in GITS is important because it can allow to 'hack' people, same now websites or servers can be hacked, while in the Matrix is used to access a VR world.
There are also other several examples of previous 'cyber' (punk or not) scifi novels that predates both GITS and The Matrix. But people don't fucking read (surprise surprise), therefore the only example where they saw something like that before the Matrix was GITS, that's why they believe it inspired it.
I'm a fan of the original manga, and it's been I dunno how many years since I've looked at it - anime, I thought the original was ok and the second was very strange (but I did like it better than the first, oddly). Since hearing about this production, I had low expectations, but the trailers at least made it look watchable.
Ultimately, I enjoyed it. Far from a great film, but definitely enjoyable and I felt they did a decent job of adapting what was compelling about the original world and making it still feel interesting and alive- but also, to be its own thing.
The cyberpunk world, I feel like it's been about 20 years since I've seen a compelling one in film, they really nailed it. It was gross and bleak and beautiful in all the right ways. Very happy I saw it in 3D for this reason. As I watched the film I felt like "no one has shot a movie like this in decades." The environments were an excellent interpretation of the original manga and I think they did a stellar job with it.
ScarJo did great, she's the top action heroine of the day - maybe of either gender - and I felt like she did a great job of sinking into this character. I didn't feel like I was just watching Black Widow or Lucy in a different film, she did a good (enough) job of matching with the world. The weird plot and pacing problems took away from her performance, but she was strong enough to carry it through. Plenty of times I felt like this was a good interpretation of what the original manga character would be like, given flesh - that goes for all of the original cartoonists' main heroines, since many of them were all sort of modeled similarly.
I was pissed there was no Fuchikoma. Can't have it all I guess. Anyway I hope the movie does well and that we can see more. But what I really want is Appleseed next!
Agreed. Not only is the compositing really bad in many of the cityscape shots, but they've only really got one idea for the visual look of the city. Yeah, great, holograms. What else? Nothing. They did a terrible job of updating the world in light of the two decades that have passed since the original film. And that's on top of turning it into
a remake of Robocop.
I didn't hate it, so I guess in that sense it exceeded expectations, but it's a forgettable film on every conceivable level. And it looks like no sequel judging by that box office, which is even lower than I thought it would be. gg boss baby
Agreed. Not only is the compositing really bad in many of the cityscape shots, but they've only really got one idea for the visual look of the city. Yeah, great, holograms. What else? Nothing. They did a terrible job of updating the world in light of the two decades that have passed since the original film. And that's on top of turning it into
a remake of Robocop.
I didn't hate it, so I guess in that sense it exceeded expectations, but it's a forgettable film on every conceivable level. And it looks like no sequel judging by that box office, which is even lower than I thought it would be. gg boss baby
I saw it. It was okay. The movie's world was great to look at, and so was Scarlett. I liked her Major. Batou was likeable too,
despite his minimal role in the story
. The plot was coherent and tidy. I wouldn't mind watching it again.
My complaints:
-I felt the movie could be better if the writing was stronger. Felt like most of the dialogue lacked punch and wasn't memorable.
-I know they were trying to be faithful to the anime by having a Japanese actor as chief, but it's weird when he's the only one who speaks Japanese. He gets some cool scenes but no one has chemistry with him
-The mother. Kinda worked, kinda didn't
-Motoko, motoko, motoko. Oh man, the people who complained about whitewashing are gonna hate this
-Major's 'gotta have our hero say one cool line at the moment of the villain's death' line... didn't work.
The visuals were not special, and were made worse by the usual gimmick 3D instead of real 3D because you get a lack of clarity when using glasses. They had a real chance here to at least do that right, and they didn't. As for everything else, well, I guess it felt rushed. Almost like you're bouncing from one scene to the next. Batou was good though
It was pretty hardcore poop. Started to doze off midway through.
1. Visually, I didn't like it. I thought they went over board with the holograms. There was no real cohesion to it. The city looked 1999, but plastered in Holograms.
Something that bothered with me first trailer already. It`s like JJ Abrams and lensflare all over again. But here the movie sucks too, in many different ways.
I would have like to have seen Fuchi/Tachikomas too, but a bunch of cheerful talking mini-tanks would have been quite awkward to fit in with the film's tone.
You may need to book an appointment at LensCrafters.
As for the movie feeling rushed, I would not be surprised to hear that a good 15-20 minutes of footage was cut, we've already seen glimpses of scenes in trailers that didn't make it to the movie. The plot still makes perfect sense as-is, so people saying it's messy are really just annoyed that they mashed together 1st and 2nd GIG and who wanted two separate stories.
