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[Mibu no ookami]

That's precisely why, in this instance, it isn't on Xbox that Starfield turned out like it did. Lest we forget the game was set to launch the year before, when it didn't have Xbox stamped on it. It would have been even worse. The development side of it rests in the laps of Todd and co.

No denying that Xbox has a cultural problem, though. And btw, Microsoft didn't buy Bethesda, they acquired Zenimax. They got much more out of that deal than Elder Scrolls and Fallout.

If Starfield was not exclusive to Xbox, they probably could have delayed it another 6-12 months and worked on improvements.

If I'm Todd Howard I have a frank conversation with Phil about this. Say, we'll work to improve the game, but we have to release on PS5 to recover some revenue here.

Ultimately, the Xbox Series is in serious trouble not just in Europe, but North America as well. People tried to spin things in the CDW thread, but it was clearly a bad result that the XS wasn't able to move to the top spot and not even by a close margin. Ultimately September doesn't matter. What matters the most in the industry is Oct-Dec and Microsoft is limping into a foot race there.

 

[DForce]

Hearing bullshit like 'MS doesn't care about hardware sales' is some real dumb shit.

If they didn't care, they wouldn't have made the game exclusive; that's an easy 5m+ sales if they were to release the game on ps5.

There is no doubt in my mind that Starfield has been a disappointment for them internally essentially on all fronts except for Steam sales.

Console sales are poor?

Microsoft doesn't care about console sales, they just want you in their ecosystem.

Game sales are poor?

"It's on Game Pass."

They don't want to admit that Microsoft has failed in certain areas of the gaming division. The Xbox Series S was primarily made to help boost console sales this generation.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

You don't get it. Microsoft don't care about the money they do now, or even about the money they can do being a good third-party. They care about the money they would do with the billions of gamepass subscribers that Phil Spencer promise.

I am simply saying, that MS cant be retarded. They have to see that whatever they have been doing, is not working.

As it stands, going full-on third party does not mean they need to end gamepass. It would even be better for them. Eg, I am sure they won't mind selling a $5 GP tier as a platform only available to PS+ subscribers, that allows PS gamers to play their games too. Or even just flat out sell their games on the PS store. Allowing GP to be their PC and box-free thing instead.

Point is, there are other ways to make money from gaming, as it stands, their fight with Playstation or need to win Playstation, I feel is doing more harm to them than good.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Am I the only one that feels Xbox is going to become full-on third party very soon?

They would keep GamePass going, but it would be for their PC gamers and to promote their PC store, then they would be releasing their games on PS.

Cause at this point, what is really the point in having a console or being exclusive, regardless of what people feel of Starfield, can you imagine how sales of that game would have been if it was on PS?

GamePass can't exist without a platform. Otherwise it's just a worse version of EA Play and Ubisoft+ (who have access to PSN). They won't be able to afford 3rd party titles with PC only.

 

[Porticus]

I am simply saying, that MS cant be retarded. They have to see that whatever they have been doing, is not working.

As it stands, going full-on third party does not mean they need to end gamepass. It would even be better for them. Eg, I am sure they won't mind selling a $5 GP tier as a platform only available to PS+ subscribers, that allows PS gamers to play their games too. Or even just flat out sell their games on the PS store. Allowing GP to be their PC and box-free thing instead.

Point is, there are other ways to make money from gaming, as it stands, their fight with Playstation or need to win Playstation, I feel is doing more harm to them than good.

Sure because Sony and Nintendo of course they will allow GP to their subscribers.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

True that. That 7 billion would have created a nice studio and possibly with tons of talent if managed right.

More like 10-20 studios, but yeah.

Anyway, no need for us to be difficult here, in truth, that money isn't spent because they don't know they could have spent it elsewhere, it's spent to get IPs, talent or an already entrenched fanbase. I mean, Sony spent $3B on Bungie too... that could have made them like 5-10 studios.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Sure because Sony and Nintendo of course they will allow GP to their subscribers.

They would if Microsoft stopped making consoles becoming a third-party publisher...

 

[jroc74]

Am I the only one that feels Xbox is going to become full-on third party very soon?

They would keep GamePass going, but it would be for their PC gamers and to promote their PC store, then they would be releasing their games on PS.

Cause at this point, what is really the point in having a console or being exclusive, regardless of what people feel of Starfield, can you imagine how sales of that game would have been if it was on PS?

I really believe that Xbox would make more money as a full-on third-party publisher than it has as a platform.... ever.

There is no shame in being a third-party publisher, especially with the amount of IPs Xbox now has. What's even better is that it puts them in this unique position where they could actually give Steam on PC a proper run for its money.

If we are being honest, Xbox, all of this gen, has already been third party. All their games are available on PC and Xbox consoles day 1. let's call it what it is, doing that means you are making your games available for more than one platform on day 1, that's as close to being a third-party pub as anyone would get. Far removed from sonys approach of bringing their games to PC after a year or two... or more. It shows their priority is first and foremost the PS console. And the sales are reflective of that.

At this point, it is apt to say, that Xbox is that third-party publisher that releases games for everyone.... except Playstation.

One of these days some ppl wont consider this a hot take.

Some of us have been saying this for years after the XBO launched. I said 10 years from now tho. Them acquiring Bethesda made me sit up. Them acquiring ABK made me go:

Some ppl forget that Blackberry is still a player in the mobile market, just not with hardware. MS too.

As of today MS is one of, if not the biggest 3rd party publisher on the planet.

 

[yazenov]

What the Gamepass exclusive thing? Why doesn't that make sense? They are selling a subscription service (on PC as well). The ultimate goal for Microsoft is more subs, how people experience that matters not to Microsoft. Console sales are another way to access Gamepass and that's all. You guys are still living in the PS3/X360 era where console sales were everything, that's not how it works anymore, but carry on with the doom and gloom it's hilarious.

"According to Microsoft Gaming CEO, Phil Spencer, the Game Pass has gotten to a point where it has "reached everybody on console that wants to subscribe." However, the truth is not as straightforward. Axios reports that the Game Pass failed to hit its target growth rate (73%) for the fiscal year that ended on June 30, achieving only a 28% growth. Furthermore, Axios points out that this is the second year in a row that the Game Pass didn't meet its target after posting excellent numbers two years ago"

Too bad for MS that Gamepass is not doing too hot either with their growth rate slowing down and missing internal targets. The recent price hike will no doubt further negatively impact its growth and subscriber retention.

Xbox Game Pass misses growth target rate for second year in a row

Despite the service's continued growth every year, the Xbox Game Pass still hasn't met internal expectations over at Microsoft.

www.xfire.com

 

[MrTired]

Am I the only one that feels Xbox is going to become full-on third party very soon?

They would keep GamePass going, but it would be for their PC gamers and to promote their PC store, then they would be releasing their games on PS.

Cause at this point, what is really the point in having a console or being exclusive, regardless of what people feel of Starfield, can you imagine how sales of that game would have been if it was on PS?

They can't they're still very much dependent on the being a platform holder and get a 30% cut on all transactions made on the platform.
No Microsoft absolutely wants Gamepass on other platforms but in addition to having the Xbox platform. They hope to do this by strong-arming the competition by acquiring vital content ala CoD.

 

[adamsapple]

Starfield #1 in the US and #2 in Europe behind Football (duh).

Looks like it's a huge retail sales success despite being on game pass.

Nice.

 

[Negotiator101]

Too bad for MS that Gamepass is not doing too hot either with their growth rate slowing down and missing internal targets.

Xbox Game Pass misses growth target rate for second year in a row

Despite the service's continued growth every year, the Xbox Game Pass still hasn't met internal expectations over at Microsoft.

www.xfire.com

I imagine they are well aware and they got work to do but please don't make out Microsoft are even considering getting out of the console business currently, that's nonsense.

 

[kaizenkko]

I am simply saying, that MS cant be retarded.

Ohh, they can, they really can.

 

[Porticus]

Starfield #1 in the US and #2 in Europe behind Football (duh).

Looks like it's a huge retail sales success despite being on game pass.

Nice.

And then you arrive in tackle dismissing 110 messages in a thread, so delusional.

 

[MisterXDTV]

They can't they're still very much dependent on the being a platform holder and get a 30% cut on all transactions made on the platform.
No Microsoft absolutely wants Gamepass on other platforms but in addition to having the Xbox platform. They hope to do this by strong-arming the competition by acquiring vital content ala CoD.

This doesn't make sense...

Their sales on Xbox Store suck anyway because of GamePass that cannibalizes sales on consoles + Steam on PC

Maybe they can buy Valve next.... LOL

 

[DForce]

What the Gamepass exclusive thing? Why doesn't that make sense? They are selling a subscription service (on PC as well). The ultimate goal for Microsoft is more subs, how people experience that matters not to Microsoft. Console sales are another way to access Gamepass and that's all. You guys are still living in the PS3/X360 era where console sales were everything, that's not how it works anymore, but carry on with the doom and gloom it's hilarious.

Consoles are another way to get into Game Pass, but you guys are treating it as if its irrelevant.

If they want to be successful in Game Pass AND as an Xbox brand, then they're going to need to see growth in all areas, especially after spending nearly 100 billion on Zenimax and ABK.

You can't ignore the growth that MS wanted to achieve within the next 4 years.

 

[T-0800]

What the Gamepass exclusive thing? Why doesn't that make sense? They are selling a subscription service (on PC as well). The ultimate goal for Microsoft is more subs, how people experience that matters not to Microsoft. Console sales are another way to access Gamepass and that's all. You guys are still living in the PS3/X360 era where console sales were everything, that's not how it works anymore, but carry on with the doom and gloom it's hilarious.

 

[adamsapple]

And then you arrive in tackle dismissing 110 messages in a thread, so delusional.

*checks first page*

At some point they will start to sell actual clouds, it will be an important metric for them.

, yeah I'm good dismissing it and replying based on the news piece itself.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

GamePass can't exist without a platform. Otherwise it's just a worse version of EA Play and Ubisoft+ (who have access to PSN). They won't be able to afford 3rd party titles with PC only.

People keep saying this, and I get it. But are we really thinking this true, what is the real Xbox platform? Is it still the console, or has it become the PC and gamepass.

At this point, an Xbox console is really just a glorified gateway into game pass.

Sure because Sony and Nintendo of course they will allow GP to their subscribers.

lol... yh I know, but why not though? If the games are still available on the PS store, and Sony is getting a cut from that PS Game Pass teir sub or whatever, then what's the issue?

But seriously, even if they don't do the sub thing on PS too, what real harm would it do to Xbox at this point if they made their games available on PS now?

I believe the sooner MS realizes their core market is and should really be PC and Gamepass for PC or Xcloud for the box agnostic users, the better for them. That really is the real joke to me about MS,I feel they have been fighting the wrong battle for over two decades. And are still not learning.

 

[Negotiator101]

Consoles are another way to get into Game Pass, but you guys are treating it as if its irrelevant.

If they want to be successful in Game Pass AND as an Xbox brand, then they're going to need to see growth in all areas, especially after spending nearly 100 billion on Zenimax and ABK.

You can't ignore the growth that MS wanted to achieve within the next 4 years.

I agree with you it's not irrelevant and the figures are not great but let's not make out Xbox is in trouble etc when it clearly isn't. Just made a 70 billion gaming purchase which shows an enormous amount of confidence in the Xbox business and its future.

 

[Mownoc]

, yeah I'm good dismissing it and replying based on the news piece itself.

You mean the one part of the news that is positive for MS and ignore literally everything else right?

 

[adamsapple]

If Starfield was not exclusive to Xbox, they probably could have delayed it another 6-12 months and worked on improvements.

Wrong.

If Starfield wasn't an MS published game, BGS was looking to push it out a year before it actually came out.

 

[DForce]

I agree with you it's not irrelevant and the figures are not great but let's not make out Xbox is in trouble etc when it clearly isn't. Just made a 70 billion gaming purchase which shows an enormous amount of confidence in the Xbox business and its future.

They made a 70b dollar purchase because they wanted to be a better competitor and help weaken the competition. I don't see that as having an enormous amount of confidence because we know what those emails revealed and the goals they wanted to reach by 2027.

We know they want a significant boost in Game Pass subscriptions by 2027. We don't know if it will reach their goal and if doesn't then there's going to be a lot of concern within Microsoft.

 

[Mownoc]

2024 is going to be one of the most important years for Xbox hardware in a very long time. Let's not forget the internal targets set by MS that were revealed in the FTC Leak.

29m sold by June 30th 2024 and then 59m sold by June 30th 2027. At this stage averaging 10m a year for 2025,2026 and 2027 seems like a nigh impossibility. It will be interesting to see if their line-up and hardware revisions next year can do anything to revitalize the flagging xbox hardware business and do something that it appears Starfield could not even approach.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

The only way Microsoft can turn this around is to make call of duty full exclusive. Force people onto their ecosystem

And that's not happening immediately. The problem is that as the months and years go by, more and more people are being further added to and absorbed into other platform holders digital ecosystems. That's long term damage that is very hard to overcome.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Wrong.

If Starfield wasn't an MS published game, BGS was looking to push it out a year before it actually came out.

Just because it had an earlier release date doesn’t mean it wouldn’t get delayed.

 

[adamsapple]

Just because it had an earlier release date doesn’t mean it wouldn’t get delayed.

Potentially true, but we know BGS wasn't immune from releasing games earlier than they needed to (FO76).

 

[Unknown?]

I agree with you it's not irrelevant and the figures are not great but let's not make out Xbox is in trouble etc when it clearly isn't. Just made a 70 billion gaming purchase which shows an enormous amount of confidence in the Xbox business and its future.

It clearly is. If it were any other gaming company, they'd already be out. It's the parent company keeping them afloat. Granted the same could be said of PS with PS3.

 

[Heisenberg007]

The only way Microsoft can turn this around is to make call of duty full exclusive. Force people onto their ecosystem

That would only kill Call of Duty right now. Just like Starfield was killed by Xbox's exclusivity.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

People keep saying this, and I get it. But are we really thinking this true, what is the real Xbox platform? Is it still the console, or has it become the PC and gamepass.

At this point, an Xbox console is really just a glorified gateway into game pass.

lol... yh I know, but why not though? If the games are still available on the PS store, and Sony is getting a cut from that PS Game Pass teir sub or whatever, then what's the issue?

But seriously, even if they don't do the sub thing on PS too, what real harm would it do to Xbox at this point if they made their games available on PS now?

I believe the sooner MS realizes their core market is and should really be PC and Gamepass for PC or Xcloud for the box agnostic users, the better for them. That really is the real joke to me about MS,I feel they have been fighting the wrong battle for over two decades. And are still not learning.

Gamepass is probably 80 percent Xbox 20 pc. But let’s say it was 50 50. That wouldn’t be with revenue without Xbox to keep up the non Microsoft content. That will cause subscribership to fall.

With low base you have to increase the price to cover the loss of revenue from internal sales.

It’s not sustainable.

And no Sony and Microsoft have no interest in letting Microsoft have any pathway that reduces people’s expectations of b2p.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

If Starfield was not exclusive to Xbox, they probably could have delayed it another 6-12 months and worked on improvements.

If I'm Todd Howard I have a frank conversation with Phil about this. Say, we'll work to improve the game, but we have to release on PS5 to recover some revenue here.

Ultimately, the Xbox Series is in serious trouble not just in Europe, but North America as well. People tried to spin things in the CDW thread, but it was clearly a bad result that the XS wasn't able to move to the top spot and not even by a close margin. Ultimately September doesn't matter. What matters the most in the industry is Oct-Dec and Microsoft is limping into a foot race there.

In fairness, Xbox delayed it the first time.

As for a PS5 release, I doubt they'd do that. It would help them, sure, but it would also show a weakness in the brand (which is a bad move in business). Microsoft can eat the cost anyway (assuming Starfield doesn't recoup losses), because the next Elder Scrolls and Fallout games should be bangers!

 

[Negotiator101]

They made a 70b dollar purchase because they wanted to be a better competitor and help weaken the competition. I don't see that as having an enormous amount of confidence because we know what those emails revealed and the goals they wanted to reach by 2027.

We know they want a significant boost in Game Pass subscriptions by 2027. We don't know if it will reach their goal and if doesn't then there's going to be a lot of concern within Microsoft.

Thats 2027 though.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

In fairness, Xbox delayed it the first time.

As for a PS5 release, I doubt they'd do that. It would help them, sure, but it would also show a weakness in the brand (which is a bad move in business). Microsoft can eat the cost anyway (assuming Starfield doesn't recoup losses), because the next Elder Scrolls and Fallout games should be bangers!

The brand is weak there is no hiding it.

Releasing on ps5 and fixing the game saves Bethesda and its employees.

 

[Heisenberg007]

He's right though. With the way Xbox is going the cloud only app future seems imminent.

When a Bethesda game can't save your system you are kinda fucked here.

But Cloud only gaming isn't there. There would be only a handful of people that play Xbox games via xCloud and don't have their consoles. Xbox is trying to appeal to that group, which is why they are stuck in this limbo.

Their focus should be on their biggest, most important userbase, i.e., "console owners." Phil himself confirmed that the Xbox console owners are their most financially committed customer group. And it is them that they keep ignoring.

 

[DForce]

Thats 2027 though.

It takes years to create growth.

 

[Negotiator101]

It clearly is. If it were any other gaming company, they'd already be out. It's the parent company keeping them afloat. Granted the same could be said of PS with PS3.

Then again it's the parent company investing a huge sum of money and I don't think they'd do that without a lot of confidence in where Xbox is headed.

 

[Porticus]

Then again it's the parent company investing a huge sum of money and I don't think they'd do that without a lot of confidence in where Xbox is headed.

The funny thing to guess is inside which object the Xbox is headed.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

The brand is weak there is no hiding it.

Releasing on ps5 and fixing the game saves Bethesda and its employees.

No doubt they have the weakest brand.

Sincerely though, a new Elder Scrolls or Fallout (or both) being top tier would most likely bury the Starfield discourse. What it would do for hardware, who knows, but it would at least put Bethesda closer to their roots of the past. They may never again have another Skyrim if PlayStation isn't in the picture, but they can do better than Fallout 76 and Starfield.

 

[TheGodfather07]

That would only kill Call of Duty right now. Just like Starfield was killed by Xbox's exclusivity.

I wouldn't say killed but it was hampered heavily on the console side without PS. It would have been killed if was truly XB exclusive. It was PC that did most of the lifting.

 

[NEbeast]

If Starfield was not exclusive to Xbox, they probably could have delayed it another 6-12 months and worked on improvements.

If I'm Todd Howard I have a frank conversation with Phil about this. Say, we'll work to improve the game, but we have to release on PS5 to recover some revenue here.

Ultimately, the Xbox Series is in serious trouble not just in Europe, but North America as well. People tried to spin things in the CDW thread, but it was clearly a bad result that the XS wasn't able to move to the top spot and not even by a close margin. Ultimately September doesn't matter. What matters the most in the industry is Oct-Dec and Microsoft is limping into a foot race there.

Its funny that the biggest cheerleader in there laughs at you stating facts. I still doubt spencer releases anything on ps5 at this point though.

Starfield #1 in the US and #2 in Europe behind Football (duh).

Looks like it's a huge retail sales success despite being on game pass.

Nice.

You took your time.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

One of these days some ppl wont consider this a hot take.

Some of us have been saying this for years after the XBO launched. I said 10 years from now tho. Them acquiring Bethesda made me sit up. Them acquiring ABK made me go:

Some ppl forget that Blackberry is still a player in the mobile market, just not with hardware. MS too.

As of today MS is one of, if not the biggest 3rd party publisher on the planet.

What confused me is when they started to put their games on Steam.

I have no idea what their strategy is anymore.

 

[Thief1987]

Basically Xbox may not even exist outside of US and no one will bat an eye.

 

[Duchess]

MS released their most important game so far this generation, and Xbox sales are DOWN?!! What the actual fuck?!

 

[Heisenberg007]

What confused me is when they started to put their games on Steam.

I have no idea what their strategy is anymore.

Phil Spencer:

 

[GHG]

I have no idea what their strategy is anymore.

At this point?

Just buy anything and everything they can. The scorched earth approach.

 

[gokurho]

Starfield #1 in the US and #2 in Europe behind Football (duh).

Looks like it's a huge retail sales success despite being on game pass.

Nice.

Yes, this is the greatest engagement

Console sales are poor?

Microsoft doesn't care about console sales, they just want you in their ecosystem.

Game sales are poor?

"It's on Game Pass."

They don't want to admit that Microsoft has failed in certain areas of the gaming division. The Xbox Series S was primarily made to help boost console sales this generation.

NO, NEVER
The Xbox Series S was primarily made to help boost "engagement"
MS dont focus on console sales.

 

[MrTired]

This doesn't make sense...

Their sales on Xbox Store suck anyway because of GamePass that cannibalizes sales on consoles + Steam on PC

Maybe they can buy Valve next.... LOL

As much as we say that, Microsoft are still generating billions in revenue from content and subscription services. That 30% specifically from third party sales is pretty much straight profit for Microsoft. Doesn't make sense to get rid of the hardware yet.

It gave it a small bump and in late september and october, it fell off most charts. This suggests that that bump will be short-lived. By November they'll be in the red again if not October.

You'll get no argument from me about your analysis.

People keep saying this, and I get it. But are we really thinking this true, what is the real Xbox platform? Is it still the console, or has it become the PC and gamepass.

At this point, an Xbox console is really just a glorified gateway into game pass.

lol... yh I know, but why not though? If the games are still available on the PS store, and Sony is getting a cut from that PS Game Pass teir sub or whatever, then what's the issue?

But seriously, even if they don't do the sub thing on PS too, what real harm would it do to Xbox at this point if they made their games available on PS now?

I believe the sooner MS realizes their core market is and should really be PC and Gamepass for PC or Xcloud for the box agnostic users, the better for them. That really is the real joke to me about MS,I feel they have been fighting the wrong battle for over two decades. And are still not learning.

Nope the PC market has chosen Steam as the platform of choice. There were only 5 million Gamepass subscribers on PC the other 20 million or so came from console.

 

[ulantan]

They would if Microsoft stopped making consoles becoming a third-party publisher...

There is no incentive for them to give up third party sales.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It is an Xbox problem.... Xbox has no eye for good games and talent. a better console platform would've seen this from a mile away and bought a better studio. How MS made the choice to buy bethesda after Fallout 76 is a wild one to me when they probably could have made their own RPG studio and got way better results.

They want IP’s to feed GamePass, having the bestest AAAA games is far below the priority list compared to just shipping game after game and removing IP’s from their competitors (hurting their competitors being a higher priority than selling games or hardware).

 

[ChorizoPicozo]