GTA 3 (Alpha) For Dreamcast Released - Runs on Native Hardware
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
What do you want to show with this video?
Have you ever played Croc on the Sega Saturn? so, it's the same scenario here, dreamcast's gta 3 is zoomed in omitting 33% of vision and geometry all the time.
Xaeroxcore666
Member
We went to "DC will never handle that" to "it´s omitting 33% of vision" hahahahahaahahaha
Saturn Dragon
Member
Rumour says there's another hyped port from 2002-2003 game coming to the Dreamcast.
Unknown?
Member
Ya I don't know why it's anything more than it is. It is cool they could do better than the devs did 24 years ago but you have people acting like it's such a big own to Rockstar North. It's like all the homebrew for 16 bit that wasn't possible back in the early 90s because development wasn't as advanced. It isn't a representation of what was possible in that era.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Don't think so, it's widely accepted and known they didn't do Dreamcast GTAIII for commercial reasons, not hardware viability (though it's likely that if it hadn't happened the game would have turned out different enough to take advantage of DC better over now shoehorning a PC version).
If anything the only heat the devs got was by haters decrying them for saying GTAIII was possible on DC or trying to twist their words into something altogether different like how it would have only been possible while the game looked like the very first alpha, flat, no lighting media shown.
Similarly the only folks claiming anything close to it being a Rockstar North own are the haters pretending that a port back in the day wasn't possible and it's only possible now because a handful of amateurs are somehow insanely better than the AAA studio making GTAIII from scratch, lol.
I guess someone, somewhere may have said something like that, we even get people trying to make hating the beautiful Witch4r Ciri part of an anti-woke movement because she doesn't look like Stellar Blade's characters or something but I think it's a minority that doesn't warrant mention.
Anyway, found this framerate analysis video, certainly a lot better than 10fps, on average, though it does hit that low. The original OP tweet has a framerate counter also, that's the F on the statistics at the top, lol, so dunno why a certain someone has to imagine and proclaim some more bs.
Let's get back to only allowing talk of how the current DCA3 alpha is inferior to the AAA PS2 edition so please, everyone, refrain from discussing resolution, widescreen modes or additional assets and complexity presenting additional challenges to the performance and just admit DC is shit!
Last edited:
Just to make it clear it wasn't added latter, the stuff removed from the PS2 final version was there in the beta and pre release screenshots.
But yes, a homebrew port to the PS2 could still have kept the PC added detail, but I think Espiral's point wasn't about console war, but that you can't make a 1:1 comparison to the PS2 version because they aren't rendering the same thing, the DC has a lot more stuff to stream and render.
This is just stupid mate, in GTA 3 and in both version you can change the camera view/zoom level, you can match a wide camera in the DC version as well.
Hell if you pick the widescreen modes you show much more than the PS2 version can.
Last edited:
Curious as to why they don't use the map placement data from the PS2 then? They're just DAT files and the PS2 ones work on PC, so they should still work here, that would get rid of the additional props it has to render and be better for the framerate right?
Not too familiar with that, but I think so, I think you can also use the Xbox map on the original GTA 3 recomp so probably the PS2 too.
Maybe they thought it was easier to use the PC version assets.
Last edited:
Daniel Thomas MacInnes
GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus
Not my problem. There are still many people who have Dreamcasts, and there are still many working consoles for anyone who wishes to hop on the bandwagon.
Daniel Thomas MacInnes
GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus
I'm assuming those are good feelings, because Croc and especially Quake on Saturn are supremely awesome.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
good feelings for sure
Xaeroxcore666
Member
Sony always have played dirty. No suprise here. In fact, any major gaming company have done dirty stuff like this, but in Sony seems yo be a trend, sometimes...
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Dreamcast wasn't the better system for me. How the FUCK would you get Xenosaga on a GDROM?!
Amazing how fanboys can just say 100 million people got it wrong.
Sony had a vision for the future of videogames and they executed it.
Amazing how fanboys can just say 100 million people got it wrong.
Sony had a vision for the future of videogames and they executed it.
Esppiral
Member
Last edited:
Saturn Dragon
Member
The 16bit development will never be as advanced as it was back then with all the japanese teams dedicating their heart and soul to the systems.
The only thing that now pushes further improvements in programming and making it look like "whoa now devs know more about the systems" is just bigger rom size being super cheap and adding Fpga to the cartridges (Neo geo dev team from Germany does it, same with Watermelon for Megadrive)
And, of course and more importantly, 8bit / 16bit homebrew dev teams now have NO DEADLINES. Which IMHO makes the 80s and 90s development ten millions more worthy, guys like Treasure programming top of the line advanced graphics routines and super cool gameplay design not only in minimal rom size (Gustar Heroes, 8megabit rom..) but also done in record time, probably less than six months.
Same for Dreamcast development now. There was a DEAD-line (npi lol) for the console. Mid 2000 programmers knew that most projects had no future on Dreamcast, so they just didn't have the time to even begin anything.
There was a late 2001 Yu Suzuki interview, where he said he needed more time to work on the console after Shenmue 2, and that he was planning
a lot of things like a port of Virtua Fighter 4. But there wasn't any more time for commercial development.
Now guys can try to port Gta 3 and development could last a bunch of years until it's finished.
The main achievement I feel is to be able to run it on 16MB of RAM (and some of it is used by the system itself), so it could be something like 14MB instead of 30MB, and also to be able to stream from a CD which at 12x speed is just 1.8MB/s vs PS2 DVD going at 5.28MB/s. Graphics can always be scaled down (especially by limiting the draw distance), but memory is a huge issue and they managed to have it running!
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Introduction to Grand Theft Auto 3 on Sega Dreamcast
- The video introduces viewers to an exciting prototype of Grand Theft Auto 3 running on the Sega Dreamcast, marking it as a significant development in gaming for 2025.
- The port, developed by a team possibly named SKMP, aims to replicate the full Grand Theft Auto 3 experience on Dreamcast hardware.
- The presenter expresses enthusiasm about the project, emphasizing that even in its prototype state, the game runs impressively well.
Gameplay Experience and Setup
- The presenter explains that there are multiple ways to play the game, including using a GDM device or through emulation on a Dreamcast.
- Setting up the game can be tricky, and the presenter offers to create a Discord channel to assist viewers in finding necessary files and setup guidance.
- Despite being a prototype, the gameplay is described as stellar, with the game showcasing the ambitious nature of its design and thousands of lines of code.
Cultural Impact and Legacy of Grand Theft Auto 3
- The presenter highlights the significance of Grand Theft Auto 3 as a genre-defining game that initiated the open-world gaming trend, paving the way for future titles in the franchise.
- The video reflects on the long-standing popularity of Grand Theft Auto 5, which has remained relevant since its initial release on PlayStation 3.
- The cultural impact of Grand Theft Auto 3 is noted, including the controversies it sparked upon release, which contributed to its notoriety and sales success.
Technical Aspects of the Port
- The presenter discusses the technical challenges of porting the game to Dreamcast, emphasizing that it required extensive rewriting of code due to differences in hardware architecture.
- The game is noted to run smoothly, with frame rates holding up well except during chaotic on-screen situations, indicating a successful adaptation to the Dreamcast's capabilities.
- However, the port is still in development, and while it performs admirably, it is acknowledged that there are bugs and glitches that need addressing.
Graphics and Gameplay Mechanics
- The graphics are praised for their quality on the Dreamcast, with some textures appearing better compared to the original PlayStation 2 version.
- The gameplay retains the essence of Grand Theft Auto 3, allowing players to engage in chaotic activities and explore the open world freely.
- The presenter shares personal anecdotes of playing the game, highlighting the fun of ignoring missions and creating mayhem within the game world.
Control Options and User Experience
- The game supports various control options, including keyboard and mouse, which enhance the gameplay experience, especially for those using the original Dreamcast controller.
- The sense of freedom in gameplay is emphasized, allowing players to approach missions and interactions in unique and often humorous ways.
- The presenter expresses excitement about the technical achievement of running Grand Theft Auto 3 on Dreamcast, noting its potential that was not fully realized during the console's original lifespan.
Conclusion and Future Prospects
- The video concludes with the presenter reflecting on the Dreamcast's capabilities and the significance of the Grand Theft Auto 3 port as a remarkable homebrew project.
- Viewers are encouraged to engage with the Discord channel for support and to share their experiences with the game.
- The presenter expresses enthusiasm for future developments in the project and the ongoing legacy of Grand Theft Auto as a transformative series in the gaming industry.
- The video introduces viewers to an exciting prototype of Grand Theft Auto 3 running on the Sega Dreamcast, marking it as a significant development in gaming for 2025.
- The port, developed by a team possibly named SKMP, aims to replicate the full Grand Theft Auto 3 experience on Dreamcast hardware.
- The presenter expresses enthusiasm about the project, emphasizing that even in its prototype state, the game runs impressively well.
Gameplay Experience and Setup
- The presenter explains that there are multiple ways to play the game, including using a GDM device or through emulation on a Dreamcast.
- Setting up the game can be tricky, and the presenter offers to create a Discord channel to assist viewers in finding necessary files and setup guidance.
- Despite being a prototype, the gameplay is described as stellar, with the game showcasing the ambitious nature of its design and thousands of lines of code.
Cultural Impact and Legacy of Grand Theft Auto 3
- The presenter highlights the significance of Grand Theft Auto 3 as a genre-defining game that initiated the open-world gaming trend, paving the way for future titles in the franchise.
- The video reflects on the long-standing popularity of Grand Theft Auto 5, which has remained relevant since its initial release on PlayStation 3.
- The cultural impact of Grand Theft Auto 3 is noted, including the controversies it sparked upon release, which contributed to its notoriety and sales success.
Technical Aspects of the Port
- The presenter discusses the technical challenges of porting the game to Dreamcast, emphasizing that it required extensive rewriting of code due to differences in hardware architecture.
- The game is noted to run smoothly, with frame rates holding up well except during chaotic on-screen situations, indicating a successful adaptation to the Dreamcast's capabilities.
- However, the port is still in development, and while it performs admirably, it is acknowledged that there are bugs and glitches that need addressing.
Graphics and Gameplay Mechanics
- The graphics are praised for their quality on the Dreamcast, with some textures appearing better compared to the original PlayStation 2 version.
- The gameplay retains the essence of Grand Theft Auto 3, allowing players to engage in chaotic activities and explore the open world freely.
- The presenter shares personal anecdotes of playing the game, highlighting the fun of ignoring missions and creating mayhem within the game world.
Control Options and User Experience
- The game supports various control options, including keyboard and mouse, which enhance the gameplay experience, especially for those using the original Dreamcast controller.
- The sense of freedom in gameplay is emphasized, allowing players to approach missions and interactions in unique and often humorous ways.
- The presenter expresses excitement about the technical achievement of running Grand Theft Auto 3 on Dreamcast, noting its potential that was not fully realized during the console's original lifespan.
Conclusion and Future Prospects
- The video concludes with the presenter reflecting on the Dreamcast's capabilities and the significance of the Grand Theft Auto 3 port as a remarkable homebrew project.
- Viewers are encouraged to engage with the Discord channel for support and to share their experiences with the game.
- The presenter expresses enthusiasm for future developments in the project and the ongoing legacy of Grand Theft Auto as a transformative series in the gaming industry.
Xaeroxcore666
Member
the mad man tried running the Xbox assets on Dreamcastand it kinda worked
OMG!!! AMAZIIING! DC is really the gift that keeps on giving!
RAM is the main issue for open world games though. PSP had 24MB of usable memory for games, versus 16MB for the Dreamcast. It doesn't sound like a lot but it is a big difference when you're already pushing memory to its limits. CPU and GPU are less important, because the game can just render at a lower resolution, use lower quality textures and models, and just run slower if needed.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
Last edited:
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
I know what a 10-15fps game looks like, I have a lot of experience playing Sega Saturn and DF confirmed that I was correct while you wanted to censor me.
Last edited:
Xaeroxcore666
Member
lower textures
It´s an alpha and you know it.
And what about all the others positive comments of the port John said? And game is always moving within 15 and +20 fps. Buy a DC and test it by yourself, it´s not 10 fps. You write a lot, but base your "opinion" on YT videos, not on actual hardware testing.
I know what a 10-15fps game looks like, I have a lot of experience playing Sega Saturn and DF confirmed that I was correct while you wanted to censor me.
MMaRsu
Gold Member
What. It's not even zoomed in in that video.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
It's easier to make bs claims then when proven wrong move the goal posts. He said 10 fps for a different build, in a different area and whole different video after all and that area is proven to run at generally double the fps he said as shown in the DF video, so he has to move the goal post (from 10 to 10-15 fps) and timestamp a whole different video in a whole different area, even though Esppiral had already said the game can drop that low, but didn't in the videos he was previously commenting on, but again it's easier to go lalalalalala than admit being wrong when you're a committed
Even the original and now outdated tweet in the OP has the frame rate counter on and goes from 12 to 25 fps and that's what the original "10 fps" comment was to so, a whole different video, running from a burned CD and showing a whole different area on top only proves how stupid that was.
That's all still at 2x the pixels pushed (480p vs i is massive). Plenty PS2 classics perform on a similar level, such as SOTC (and GTA games at some points too, with worse frame pacing), somehow it was acceptable (if not praised) but now it's on DC it's supposed to prove the complete opposite, lol
Last edited:
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Texture quality looks a bit sharper on Dreamcast but that could be due to less post-processing effects enabled. Motion seems a bit smoother on PS2 still, even if framerates look similar. Not quite framepacing-related, I'd say it's probably due to some missing post-processing effects on the DC build.
Very impressive port nonetheless, just shows DC had a good amount of untapped potential. I still think in terms of open-world games that's the one major genre where PS2 would build a substantive lead tech-wise; its VPUs seemed built for seemingly endless vector compute which would've been a godsend for vast 3D environments, and DC just doesn't have anything like that. The VPUs in PS2 remind a bit of the VDP2 in the Saturn, but more flexible and better implemented into the whole design.
All that aside, great VC results so far on DC and I'm looking forward to more progress.
nkarafo
Member
You are being very generous here.
In some scenes (mostly the open world driving ones) there's a clear difference in frame rate, like 15 vs 30fps.
Esppiral
Member
I honestly don't like this early comparisons just for the sake of views, the game is still on very alpha on Dreamcast and he is using an older build.
Xaeroxcore666
Member
DC Looking good, even considering this is an older alpha. Also, looking the image clean without the post process stuff, you can see how much of that was used to cover some low geometry on character and stage models (keep on eye on the hands on DC and PS2, for example). On final thoughts, call me crazy, but i like more the look of the cars on Dreamcast.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
TBF, I did jump around parts of the video, so I could've missed those parts.
But the general impression is yes, so far, PS2 version still has the framerate advantage and better smoothness in motion. I'm still interested to see what improvements the DC version can have.
Tho ideally I'd like to see the PS2 version improved as well because we know going by SA that VC still left a good amount of performance & optimization on the table. That'd give a more balanced view between the actual abilities of both systems (further DC version improvements; improvements to PS2 version for optimization).
nkarafo
Member
Yeah, i was thinking about that back when i played SA. I personally prefer Vice City so i always wanted to see a version of that using the improvements SA brought to the engine.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Well, VC is '80s opulent cocaine-fueled Miami while SA is gangbanging '90s Los Angeles. The former's just a more cozy vibe I guess xD; SA probably requires a familiarity to stuff like Boyz in the Hood, Colors etc. Still a good vibe in its own way.
A VC with the engine improvements of SA would've been great to see, but tech and the industry itself were just moving so fast back then it made more sense to look forward. GTA4 was only 3 years after SA for example, and was an even bigger jump in visuals than SA was over VC.
PaintTinJr
Gold Member
I know this is an old comment, but are you suggesting that toggling between interlaced and progressive mode on Dreamcast - Gamecube, Xbox OG, PS2, etc - doubles rendered pixel counts?.....
That's all still at 2x the pixels pushed (480p vs i is massive). Plenty PS2 classics perform on a similar level, such as SOTC (and GTA games at some points too, with worse frame pacing), somehow it was acceptable (if not praised) but now it's on DC it's supposed to prove the complete opposite, lol
Going by how Swiss on chipped Gamecube can force progressive mode on games that don't support the software toggle menu of games like Mario Sunshine US, Metroid Prime US, MGS1 twin snakes US, MK Double Dash US, etc, etc, it can be enabled on virtually all PAL games, and on modded PS2 on most games without silly GS optimisations hacks and the deinterlacing is actually done in console Tv-out DSP hardware and has no impact on performance or pixels pushed AFAIK,
TNT Sheep
Member
What I believe he is referring to is field rendering, which was more prevalent on the PS2, just not for the games he mentions. As far as I am aware you cannot force field rendered games into progressive mode, since you are missing half the image.
PaintTinJr
Gold Member
It does it by holding the odd or even field and presenting as a complete image when the next frame renders in the DSP block AFAIK, the exact same way you can feed a 480i signal into old NTSC panasonic DVD HDD video recorders and output at 480p - as I did for many, many years with my PAL60 PS2 back in the day.
You aren't doubling the rendered pixel count, when enabling those modes AFAIK otherwise you would expect the frame-rate to half when they enable.
TNT Sheep
Member
Correct, and that's why field rendered games can't be forced into progressive mode, since they render at half the vertical resolution internally. Something like 640 x 240 or 512 x 224.
PaintTinJr
Gold Member
But they can in DSP blocks, because you just accumulate the the odd field in the n-th frame, and render it with the even field of the n-th+1 frame - and render that as the first frame.
On frame 2 they just alternate which field you keep, so you then retain the most recent even field and display it with the new n-th+2 odd field.
But in old console systems they did actual render a full framebuffer and just displayed half the fields for each frame, hence why you can turn on progressive scan mode for virtually any game on an old system, as the original data is there like you can on hacked PS2's, Swiss on hacked Cubes or Nintendont running on Wii or WiiU.
The only caveat is that in some games developers might have been really focused on performance and traded framebuffer memory and had two different back buffers, one with a even field line stencil pattern blocking all pixel writes to even lines and another with an odd field line stencil pattern blocking all pixel writes to odd lines. They could then have rendered alternative frames to the different back renderbuffers and flip them in synchronization with the even or odd timing, result in only rendered data being show in each buffer, and would half the pixel writes/fillrate of the overall rendering and would also half the performance of clearing a renderbuffer (and zbuffer) per frame but at the cost of doubling frame buffer memory needed. The only way these games could be made progressive would have been with a hardware DSP solution, but I suspect virtually no one did this for rendering. It would have worked well for the PS3 in deferred render games where the console had plenty of GDDR3 for a frame-buffer and halving fill-rate would have reduce latency and provided plenty of render time to do the field accumulation and do some AA on top.
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Locked