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[The Cockatrice]

Let's compare two singleplayer games that both released in May 2024.

Well yes, Hellblade is priced poorly and its on gamepass and it has no gameplay. Theres a million indies far superior to it.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

You know what? Terrific point that is not talked about enough, at least so far.

HB2 suffers not only from the lack of focus or plot (standart case with low budget European art-house lol). It's just bland in it's overall direction and presentation if we don't talk about tech.

Music is barely there, coloring is comically safe muted teal orange, there's not many truly visionary or even interesting shots during almost 6 hours, dialogue direction is your typical 180-degree rule (albeit w/o visible cuts), camera is flying like crazy and many angles feel unnatural, too CG for a movie and too forced for a game. HB2 is also not trying to mimic optical artefacts of a camera lens, like proper anamophic flares or perspective, that's why despite the agressive grain and CA visuals are landing in a strange way. Too game-like and not cinema-like.

If anything, HB2 painfully reminds you why people adore Kojima as a director and a movie guy despite his weirdness.

Basically this. People comparing this to Death Stranding are criminal offenders.

Ninja Theory has become a hipster studio that doesn't give a shit about players or their employers so if they get the axe it will be well deserved. They are behaving like those cinema companies that make movies funded by taxes.

 

[winjer]

Let's compare two singleplayer games that both released in May 2024.

Even considering that HB2 is on Gamepass, those are very poor numbers.
I rather doubt this game will ever make up it's development cost.
And Microsoft being on a studio killing spree, I doubt Ninja Theory will last much longer.

 

[Snake29]

Even considering that HB2 is on Gamepass, those are very poor numbers.
I rather doubt this game will ever make up it's development cost.
And Microsoft being on a studio killing spree, I doubt Ninja Theory will last much longer.

They will sell the game on PS5/Pro first and then kill the studio.

 

[yazenov]

They will sell the game on PS5/Pro first and then kill the studio.

Why wait to kill the studio and continue paying them salaries till the PS5 port is released? Let the other internal studios port the game.

 

[MrRibeye]

to: [email protected]

Hi Phil,

Hope you are well.

Sony owns the rights to Heavenly Sword.

But she's not the only sexy redhead wielding swords. You can save Ninja Theory by developing a spiritual successor using the Red Sonja character.

Thanks,

Yours Truly

 

[kruis]

One thing to keep in mind with these CCU comparisons is that the sequel is significantly more expensive than the original game.

Hellblade 1 cost $30 at launch
Hellblade 2 costs $50

$30 for a 6 hour game is much more reasonable than asking $50 for more or less the same experience.

 

[yazenov]

What is there to remember?

But somehow you warriors keep forgetting that the game is also on Gamepass

But Phil said Game Pass increases game sales. So you're assuming that if the game was not on Game pass it would have sold even less? Or you're telling me that Phil is full of shit?

Please elaborate.

 

[crackajack]

Well yes, Hellblade is priced poorly and its on gamepass and it has no gameplay. Theres a million indies far superior to it.

There are a million cinematic indies?

As far as I understand, this is similar to The Order and maybe Ryse? I enjoyed Ryse's no bullshit linearity much more than the open world filler bloat of the average modern game and or lack of great visuals because indie... (also my second ng+ playthrough of Horizon just recently was also much better than the initial playthrough, with all sidequests XP-farming becoming obsolete and fast travel enabled soon... which was still more playtime than Hellblade so I agree the price is quite high for what it is) These games are made for a different target audience. Comparing them to games that are entirely different beasts might make sense for sales numbers and to put dev costs in relation to its success, but "far superior" or not is rather subjective with genres that are fundamentally not everyone's cup of tea.

 

[StereoVsn]

But somehow you warriors keep forgetting that the game is also on Gamepass

So was High-Fi Rush. And Greenberg praised its GamePass performance even!

 

[Spitfire098]

Will we even get the arbitrary x million played this time around?

So along with forza motorsport, which probably had a AAA development cost, you got two in a row that have bombed on steam. Things ain't looking good.

 

[MikeM]

I still can’t believe it took this long to make a 6 hour game.

Anyways, i’ll be playing this on GP. Not worth a buy for that length. Its a rental for me (RIP Blockbuster).

 

[winjer]

I still can’t believe it took this long to make a 6 hour game.

Anyways, i’ll be playing this on GP. Not worth a buy for that length. Its a rental for me (RIP Blockbuster).

Worst still, is that the game ends half way.
So they aren't even selling a complete game.

 

[Roufianos]

Holy shit, not even Elden Ring and COD have outperformed revered behemoth Bleeding Edge

 

[Ribi]

Meanwhile, 4 years old Ghost of Tsushima released on two consoles that outsold the Series X...

Ye but HB2 is actually a good game

 

[SJRB]

Ye but HB2 is actually a good game

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel with comments like these, bud.

 

[Gaiff]

Ye but HB2 is actually a good game

 

[Midn1ght]

I still can’t believe it took this long to make a 6 hour game.

 

[FewRope]

What a massive bomba, guess waiting for the evening in the USA did nothing. I cant see this even reaching 5k this weekend

 

[rhodesianshepard]

If people actually think Microsoft will legitimately green light their next project (I know that is what rumors say they did) you are not being realistic.

Ninja Theory will get shuttered by end of 2024.

I can see Microsoft keeping Ninja Theory around for their cutting edge motion capture studio/expertise. That actually is valuable. They have always been a mid-tier studio, though

The most concerning part about all of this is reportedly Microsoft greenlit Hellblade 3 well before launch. So they expected HB2 to be somewhat of a commercial hit. It is concerning because this game was always going to be niche, even if it scored a 90MC. And, according to Steam, the game bombed incredibly hard. There is no way HB3 goes forward. It would be setting money on fire at this point

 

[Topher]

But somehow you warriors keep forgetting that the game is also on Gamepass

Plenty of other games have been on Game Pass and performed better than this....

 

[MayauMiao]

 

[analog_future]

Bro got a temp ban and came back a different person.

 

[LazyParrot]

I do have to wonder why pc gamers buy all these fancy graphics cards if they dont want to use them.

For every PC gamer with a 4090 there are hundreds who just play CSGO, Dota or League of Legends on their 5 year-old work laptop. This is a very console-centric board, and as such PC gamers who only game on PC because they want faster, prettier console games are somewhat over-represented.

 

[DenchDeckard]

If it out performs the original game that's crazy good considering its day one on pc and xbox. Will have to see what the weekend brings.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Even considering that HB2 is on Gamepass, those are very poor numbers.
I rather doubt this game will ever make up it's development cost.
And Microsoft being on a studio killing spree, I doubt Ninja Theory will last much longer.

I got the impression that Ninja Theory over the past few years had been a sort of research team for Microsoft. The endless mocap and scanning seemed to be their main thing, rather than actually making games per se. They had something called Project Mara that I think wasn't ever intended to be public facing, so I wonder if their worth isn't entirely wrapped up in Hellblade's performance.

If Microsoft were cutting studios, however, I unfortunately would say that Hellblade 3 wouldn't be something I'd be desperate to ensure the future of.

 

[GHG]

There are a million cinematic indies?

First of all ninja theory are no longer independent so no longer fall in to that category (and haven't done for the entire duration of the development of this game).

Second of all, yes there are actually, dozens of cinematic/walking simulator/exploration focused games get released on Steam every year from independent developers. It's just that they don't get this kind of fanfare because they aren't "exclusive" to Xbox.

Some of the best ones that launched in recent years:

Pretty much all of the games above have far more gameplay than Hellblade 2 does as well. Knock yourself out.

 

[SJRB]

I am so fucking done with the goofy adult daycare vibes in the tech industry.

You don't have to slave away in a cubicle under fluorescent light for 8 hours but jesus christ.

 

[Banjo64]

First of all ninja theory are no longer independent so no longer fall in to that category (and haven't done for the entire duration of the development of this game).

Second of all, yes there are actually, dozens of cinematic/walking simulator/exploration focused games get released on Steam every year from independent developers. It's just that they don't get this kind of fanfare because they aren't "exclusive" to Xbox.

Some of the best ones that launched in recent years:

Pretty much all of the games above have far more gameplay than Hellblade 2 does as well. Knock yourself out.

I agree but a Plague Tale is not a walking sim. It’s an amazing game. Asobo are fire.

 

[GHG]

I agree but a Plague Tale is not a walking sim. It’s an amazing game. Asobo are fire.

It definitely falls in to the "cinematic" category.

Agree, incredible games, both the first and the second.

 

[TrippleA345]

It bombed hard.
- Not once has it reached the top 100 weekly sales figures since it was available on Steam. (It will this week, and then drop fast again)
- current/peak player numbers extremely low

Apparently it's nowhere to be seen even in the Xbox Top Played Games. Overall, it's not looking good. The only stat that's good is the number of Twitch viewers >100k, that's it.
After they closed Tango, I'd be surprised if they didn't close Ninja Theory and Turn 10 next 12 months lol.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I agree but a Plague Tale is not a walking sim. It’s an amazing game. Asobo are fire.

The improvements from Innocence to Requiem were incredible. That's how you do a sequel

 

[MarkMe2525]

People really need to learn how to understand statistics. Today is the release day, of course everyone who bought it will be playing. Also its a super short game, you're going to see these numbers nosedive within a week.

My favorite thing is when someone who clearly doesn't get the joke, takes a second to admonish everyone for "not getting something". One of the purest displays of irony.

 

[Portugeezer]

The thing is, is this even a good gamepass seller? It's so short that if you pay $17 for one month you're still getting short changed.

 

[scarlet0pimp]

The thing is, is this even a good gamepass seller? It's so short that if you pay $17 for one month you're still getting short changed.

Well it's not just this game is it, this game might only keep you playing for 2 evenings, then hopefully for xbox sake, you see other games that you like and play them.

Subscriptions run this risk of people paying for just enough time to play what they want and leave. Xbox are really hoping you forget to cancel and keep paying.
I bought my game pass for years to come for cheap and am lucky enough to be able to buy a year for half price due to a friend at Microsoft, but I personally know at least 3 people who pay by the month full price for game pass and never bother to cancel even when I point out ways to get it cheaper. They can't be bothered to cancel and resign up for the better deal.
I'm the sort of person though who doesn't mind shopping about for cheaper deals or calling suppliers to get things cheaper. Many people just let these things slide.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Attention all Ninja Theorists, please be aware there is a moratorium on all nonessential travel, including rock-collecting trips to Iceland. Do not book any trips without direct written approval from upper management.

We expect the moratorium will be lifted soon. We will discuss the matter with Uncle Phil next week when he + the HR team come to congratulate us in person.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Plenty of other games have been on Game Pass and performed better than this....

It feels priced in a way for people to sub to Game Pass instead, actually.

The thing is, is this even a good gamepass seller? It's so short that if you pay $17 for one month you're still getting short changed.

Who knows how much it helps subs, but $10 for a PC Game Pass sub ($17 is for Ultimate) for a short playthrough is way more attractive than $50. Also, you have a lot more to play on Game Pass after you're done with Hellblade.

 

[Skifi28]

First of all ninja theory are no longer independent so no longer fall in to that category (and haven't done for the entire duration of the development of this game).

Second of all, yes there are actually, dozens of cinematic/walking simulator/exploration focused games get released on Steam every year from independent developers. It's just that they don't get this kind of fanfare because they aren't "exclusive" to Xbox.

Some of the best ones that launched in recent years:

Pretty much all of the games above have far more gameplay than Hellblade 2 does as well. Knock yourself out.

This is a great list, I've never even heard of some of these and they look quite good, they're even on sale right now. Great recommendations as always, thanks!

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

One thing to keep in mind with these CCU comparisons is that the sequel is significantly more expensive than the original game.

Hellblade 1 cost $30 at launch
Hellblade 2 costs $50

$30 for a 6 hour game is much more reasonable than asking $50 for more or less the same experience.

Hellblade 1 has also been on sale on Xbox and one of the steam key stores for $3 recently.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

When a thread earlier today said the game had a weak launch on Steam half of the people bashed it saying that it was too early to tell.

This game isnt going to get more than 6k concurrent players

should stood ur ground.

stand on business.


This game was never going to sell, it should have been on PS5. Probably will be.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

First of all ninja theory are no longer independent so no longer fall in to that category (and haven't done for the entire duration of the development of this game).

Second of all, yes there are actually, dozens of cinematic/walking simulator/exploration focused games get released on Steam every year from independent developers. It's just that they don't get this kind of fanfare because they aren't "exclusive" to Xbox.

Some of the best ones that launched in recent years:

Pretty much all of the games above have far more gameplay than Hellblade 2 does as well. Knock yourself out.

I grabbed The Chant for dirt cheap like a month ago. Looks good for the price I paid.

 

[Astray]

It feels priced in a way for people to sub to Game Pass instead, actually.

Agreed.

The problem with their logic is the game is entirely watchable on Youtube with no sellable difference in experience (e.g. watching a game like DMC or God of War you'd expect that there will be moments of divergence between how you and whoever you're watching approach the challenges of the games).

 

[Mr Reasonable]

One thing to keep in mind with these CCU comparisons is that the sequel is significantly more expensive than the original game.

Hellblade 1 cost $30 at launch
Hellblade 2 costs $50

$30 for a 6 hour game is much more reasonable than asking $50 for more or less the same experience.

Eh, I just did an inflation calculator on that

$30usd in 2017 is equivalent to $38.37

Games in general are something like 17% more expensive ($60-$70 standard game price increase)

38.37 increased by 17% is 44.89.

So it's maybe 10% up on what the original cost when you adjust for inflation and take into account the increased cost of games in general.

I imagine it was a more expensive production than the original game, so there's that too.

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

to: [email protected]

Hi Phil,

Hope you are well.

Sony owns the rights to Heavenly Sword.

But she's not the only sexy redhead wielding swords. You can save Ninja Theory by developing a spiritual successor using the Red Sonja character.

Thanks,

Yours Truly

So you're solution to Xbox demise is "stealing" a sony franchise that barely sold.

Somehow this explains where Xbox is right now.

I guess you cant really copy PS games.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

I imagine it was a more expensive production than the original game, so there's that too.

The game has the same scope, so the inflation is unjustified. If the budget is bigger despite the sequel being pretty much of the same, it speaks about incompetency and customers should not pay for it.

 

[onQ123]

Is it even worth it to make a PS5 port ?

 

[FeralEcho]

The modern gaming industry studio where you come to work to fuck around on the company's money,and then they wonder why they are laid off even when the studio is flourishing

I can't stand mega corporations and 99% i care more about the employee than the greedy fucks in charge but shit like this is why the gaming development has become an utter joke.

That's probably why they spent so long developing a 6 hour game,this thing should've been out 2 years ago if they weren't busy driving their fucking mopeds around the halls and chilling in their office hammocks apparently instead of....you know....working on the fucking game they are paid to make.

And I can't believe I got to use the word hammock in an office enviroment for a gaming studio....This industry is fucked.

And for what is worth i really appreciate H2's short length as it's a breath of fresh air compared to the open world garbage bonanza we get nowadays but while at least an open world game has an excuse for going over 5 years development time,a short game does not.

If you take more than 3 years to develop a 6 hour linear game that's not a new IP and is not even held back by the hardware limitations of the previous gen then there's something seriously wrong going on at that studio.

But no...these guys,make sure to keep them Microsoft,meanwhile you made sure to shut off those Tango bums who released not 1,not 2 but 3 fucking games including 2 new IPs in the same timeframe that Ninja Theory managed to get their 6 hour sequel out the door cuz Tameem was too busy snorting cocaine off of hookers on expensive yacths to manage his employees not turning the studio in a mentally challenged playground.

Yeah... I'm still upset about Tango...Fuck that decision and Fuck Microsoft!

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Agreed.

The problem with their logic is the game is entirely watchable on Youtube with no sellable difference in experience (e.g. watching a game like DMC or God of War you'd expect that there will be moments of divergence between how you and whoever you're watching approach the challenges of the games).

That's just not the case. Video and sound difference are quite key to the game's experience. You also have feedback from the controller during combat along with the immersion of turning the lights off along with a pair of headphones. It's really not at all the same as watching a video, especially one with an annoying streamer talking. I'm sure the video watchers will have something to say about the gameplay experience, though.

 

[Mr Moose]

Just passed Ghost to be the no.1 seller on Steam. The player count seems strange to me, i guess people are seeing this as 'buy now play later' thing.

It's the same as yesterday?

But somehow you warriors keep forgetting that the game is also on Gamepass

Which aren't sales...

 

[SlimySnake]

We are using them, in games like Ghost of Tsushima, which is an actual game, not a 5h movie.

But that’s a last gen game made on a GPU that PC gamers were rocking in 2011.

And hellblade 2 isnt the only game. Avatar, Alan Wake 2, Callisto, all flopped hard on PC.