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[Shtof]

This isn't even a hot take.
Everybody knew this back in the day.

 

[clarky]

I also like how this guy gassed up Mario Bros 1 like it hasn't aged like milk on a countertop compared to 64 lmao

Game pretty much gave birth to the side scrolling 2D platformer as we know it today. Same in 3d with 64. But Playstation does it better. Ok mate.

 

[nial]

Excluding Switch is a bit funny, I think it had less and worse platformers than the Wii. It does not even have an original DKC game, FFS

 

[NeverYouMind]

I also like how this guy gassed up Mario Bros 1 like it hasn't aged like milk on a countertop compared to 64 lmao

Because it hasn't. It flows like butter instead of controlling like a spring on ice. The progression and challenges are also more satisfying.

 

[FStubbs]

Nintendo was never really known for high volume of games (until recently). PS1 and PS2 beat them big time with the number of games released. Nintendo systems used to have large drought periods for years. Most Nintendo series usually just get 1 entry on the system. But almost all those games turn out to be masterpieces.

Nintendo's output has increased this gen though.

Has it? Remember Nintendo used to support 2 systems and now they support one.

 

[elhav]

Mario 64 is the definition of a mediocre game. If it did not have Nintendo branding it would be forgotten. It does not stack up to Super Mario Bros. or Super Mario Bros. 3 in any category.

I mean, it's not my favourite 3d Mario by a long shot, but you have to admit it was revolutionary. It was one of the first 3d platformers, and had so many ideas that later platformers used

 

[64bitmodels]

Game pretty much gave birth to the side scrolling 2D platformer as we know it today. Same in 3d with 64. But Playstation does it better. Ok mate.

Yeah but 99% of 2d platformers that came after would surpass it in virtually every category. There's little reason to revisit it in 2024

Because it hasn't. It flows like butter instead of controlling like a spring on ice. The progression and challenges are also more satisfying.

It's the same thing for 32 stages and then the game ends. It is repetitive. Mario 64 has actual variety in levels and introduces new mechanics and levels. How is it better lol

 

[Punished Miku]

Has it? Remember Nintendo used to support 2 systems and now they support one.

I think it has, it's just spread out across many types of genres. And yeah a large part of it is their consolidation of systems. Last couple years didn't they put out something like 8 games a year?

 

[nial]

Has it? Remember Nintendo used to support 2 systems and now they support one.

Even aside of that, GameCube in 2003 had more games than Switch in 2023.

 

[elhav]

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. That is why even with less polished mechanics Psychonauts towers over Nintendo's catalogue. The amount of ideas in a single world of Psychonauts is more than an entire game by Nintendo.

In terms of world, story, characters and scenarios I wholeheartedly agree.

But gameplay and level design wise I do believe 3d Mario games are superior.

See, I love to replay Psychonauts not for the gameplay, but for its overall brilliance and uniqueness.
I replay Mario games when I want really good platforming

 

[clarky]

Yeah but 99% of 2d platformers that came after would surpass it in virtually every category. There's little reason to revisit it in 2024

Its like saying Gauntlet is trash because Diablo did it better. This isn't the music industry, its technology driven.

However unfortunately for your argument though 99% of Nintendo platformers still play better than anything any completion has produced to this day regardless of age.

 

[NeverYouMind]

I mean, it's not my favourite 3d Mario by a long shot, but you have to admit it was revolutionary. It was one of the first 3d platformers, and had so many ideas that later platformers used

It was not the very first and it certainly did not implement its mechanics very well. Other companies just saw the dollar signs on 3D mascot platformers.

It's the same thing for 16 stages and then the game ends. It is repetitive. Mario 64 has actual variety in levels and introduces new mechanics and levels. How is it better lol

It is better because its mechanics and stages are well designed and implemented. Those 16 stages throw a variety of challenges in patterns that require immediate judgement instead of going through the motions after plotting a route under altered conditions.

I replay Mario games when I want really good platforming

When I want really good platforming I replay Earthworm Jim or Ninja Gaiden Sigma.

 

[elhav]

It was not the very first and it certainly did not implement its mechanics very well. Other companies just saw the dollar signs on mascot platformers.

I said one of the first, not the first. Now you're just splitting hairs.

Mario 64 has plenty of flaws, but I still enjoyed playing it for the first time in around 2015. Once I got used to the controls and camera I found it was a playground of levels and ideas and experimentation. For its time, I think the game is a huge achievement.

The fact that people today still play it to death is a testament to its quality imo. But of course I won't argue with your tastes, to each their own

 

[Gaiff]

When I want really good platforming I replay Earthworm Jim or Ninja Gaiden Sigma.

And you say that with a straight face. No one who plays Ninja Gaiden likes that Sigma trash over Black.

 

[Punished Miku]

When I want really good platforming I replay Earthworm Jim or Ninja Gaiden Sigma.

bruh

 

[NeverYouMind]

And you say that with a straight face. Non one who plays Ninja Gaiden likes that Sigma trash over Black.

I have played them back to back and Sigma is better. Jump shot, automatic water running, and jumping out of water to start running are not mechanics that Black has. On top of that Sigma has many other refinements.

 

[elhav]

When I want really good platforming I replay Earthworm Jim or Ninja Gaiden Sigma.

Loving Ninja Gaiden for the platforming is definitely a hot take thanks for reminding me of Earthworm Jim btw. I loved that game

 

[Gaiff]

I have played them back to back and Sigma is better. Jump shot, automatic water running, and jumping out of water to start running are not mechanics that Black has. On top of that Sigma has many other refinements.

You already showed your true colors when you said Super Mario 64 is overrated, tried to claim its mechanics aren't well implemented well, and then added icing on the cake by pretending that fucking Earthworm Jim (solid game btw) is a better platformer. We got it, you like hot and controversial takes.

 

[Come On Tars]

Here’s the thing. I bet it was great. But I have a fun litmus test for you. If anyone had both Nintendo and PlayStation consoles growing up I’d bet my LIFE that when you bust out the emulators you are playing mostly Nintendo shit.

Emulation cuts through the bullshit. Everyone uses them to really OOT M64 starfox super Metroid. 90% of the time.

 

[64bitmodels]

Its like saying Gauntlet is trash because Diablo did it better. This isn't the music industry, its technology driven.

Not trash, aged poorly. Because there is little that super mario bros does better than any modern platformer, therefore it aged poorly. Sorry but it is what it is.

Those 16 stages throw a variety of challenges in patterns that require immediate judgement instead of going through the motions after plotting a route under altered conditions.

"Variety of challenges" its the same challenges over and over again man, to such an extent they had to add a warp pipe to help you skip a majority of the fluff. Mario 64 doesn't even have 3 of the same level type. Get real

 

[64bitmodels]

Here’s the thing. I bet it was great. But I have a fun litmus test for you. If anyone had both Nintendo and PlayStation consoles growing up I’d bet my LIFE that when you bust out the emulators you are playing mostly Nintendo shit.

Emulation cuts through the bullshit. Everyone uses them to really OOT M64 starfox super Metroid. 90% of the time.

Emulators aren't the best example as Playstation emulation post ps2 is pretty hazy and fuzzy- even ps2 itself is not in the best spot it could be

Plus Nintendo games are less demanding and easier to run.

And as I said before- Zelda isn't a platformer. Neither is star fox...

 

[Topher]

Opinions, but I agree with the OP. But, for the most part, I'm just not a Nintendo fan. I've tried. Most of the game just don't jive with me, especially the platformers. I much rather play the games 64bitmodels mentioned.

To each their own.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Loving Ninja Gaiden for the platforming is definitely a hot take

It has natural jump/roll traversal, vertical level design with wall jumping/running, and plenty of obstacles to avoid.

Not trash, aged poorly. Because there is little that super mario bros does better than any modern platformer, therefore it aged poorly. Sorry but it is what it is.

"Variety of challenges" its the same challenges over and over again man, to such an extent they had to add a warp pipe to help you skip a majority of the fluff. Mario 64 doesn't even have 3 of the same level type. Get real

It has fun speed runs that many modern platformers can't emulate. The shortcuts are a feature for jumping to the best or most challenging parts of the game quickly.

 

[Gaiff]

It has natural jump/roll traversal, vertical level design with wall jumping/running, and plenty of obstacles to avoid.

And the platforming is gutter trash, be serious. The jumping options are horrible. You either have the stationary jump, or the long one, but a lot of the time, you're required to make a jump in between so you end up having yo do weird running starts and jump at a mid point so the long jump doesn't take you too far. There's very little control over the jumps and the directionality sucks, only allowing you a small amount of different angles.

Ninja Gaiden does a lot of good things but platforming ain't one of them. Oh, and Sigma still sucks with its awful frame rate.

 

[clarky]

And now one of the greatest action games of all time enters the conversation as a top platformer.

Behave.

Have I took DMT again?

 

[NeverYouMind]

And the platforming is gutter trash, be serious. The jumping options are horrible. You either have the stationary jump, or the long one, but a lot of the time, you're required to make a jump in between so you end up having yo do weird running starts and jump at a mid point so the long jump doesn't take you too far. There's very little control over the jumps and the directionality sucks, only allowing you a small amount of different angles.

Ninja Gaiden does a lot of good things but platforming ain't one of them. Oh, and Sigma still sucks with its awful frame rate.

If you understand the arc of the jumps and the level layout it is never a problem. Also, certain attacks can be used to end jumps or extend their vertical and horizontal distance. If you want to talk about time. It takes Mario minutes to traverse a level whereas it takes Ryu seconds. I play Sigma on PC and it runs 60fps locked.

 

[64bitmodels]

Best thread I ever made.

I knew it was gonna get crazy but not "Earthworm Jim is better than Mario 64" crazy

 

[Unknown?]

Super Mario 64 dunks on all of those.

So, no.

Ape Escape 2 dunks on that though.

 

[Gaiff]

If you understand the arc of the jumps and the level layout it is never a problem.

Except it always is because it fundamentally sucks. Someone shouldn't need to understand the intricacies of a jump and be familiar with the layout of a level because no one is familiar with a level the first time. If you're telling me I have to know the level to use the jump properly, then you're admitting the mechanics fail. A good platformer's bread and butter are the movements and controls. Ninja Gaiden's platforming miserably fails in those respects.

Also, certain attacks can be used to end jumps or extend their vertical and horizontal distance.

Which shouldn't be needed to platform. Those are hacks to make up for the shortcomings of the platforming. I'll never forget that part in the train yard where you have to climb up and have a bunch of drones harassing you at the same time. You fall? Start over.

If you want to talk about time. It takes Mario minutes to traverse a level whereas it takes Ryu seconds.

And?

I play Sigma on PC and it runs 60fps locked.

Was talking about the console version. Never got the PC version because it was reviewed negatively on Steam so I skipped it.

 

[Katajx]

I loved the PS2, but I would still put the n64 ahead of it. Assuming I’m not casting too wide a net on the term platformer.

Mario 64, Banjo, Conker, Mystical Ninja, Gex, Glover, Kirby, Yoshi’s Story, and I feel like I’m of a small group that also liked DK64 lol

I don’t know how those games could be better, if I couldn’t have been bothered to play them more than a few minutes at a time. Just never could get into the franchises you mentioned.

 

[ShirAhava]

Other than Klonoa 2 and Maximo I wasn't a fan of PS2 platformers at all

 

[RAIDEN1]

On a related note, Sony and Sega would have given anything to be able to have their very own Mario 64, but they never did...Sega tried and failed with Sonic X-treme. but for a time Mario 64 was the pinnacle of platform games..

 

[Hrk69]

What's a platformer precious?

 

[elhav]

It has natural jump/roll traversal, vertical level design with wall jumping/running, and plenty of obstacles to avoid.

I'd say Prince of persia sands of time did it much much better

 

[64bitmodels]

Mario 64 was the pinnacle of platform games..

It still is if we're talking 3D. Although there are many promising 3D indies on the horizon.

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

As the good doctor always said:

Not to say, that some of the platformers of that era weren't quality. They were. Particularly Sly Cooper and Jak's sequels.

But they don't compare to the likes of Nintendo's offerings.

 

[clarky]

Not trash, aged poorly. Because there is little that super mario bros does better than any modern platformer, therefore it aged poorly. Sorry but it is what it is.

Not sure what your point is, Videogames are irrative by nature. But Nintendo are constantly at the top of the platformers.

Ill ask again, name me a playstation platformer that you think is great at the time and ill name you a better one by Nintendo.

 

[NeverYouMind]

I knew it was gonna get crazy but not "Earthworm Jim is better than Mario 64" crazy

Except it always is because it fundamentally sucks. Someone shouldn't need to understand the intricacies of a jump and be familiar with the layout of a level because no one is familiar with a level the first time. If you're telling me I have to know the level to use the jump properly, then you're admitting the mechanics fail. A good platformer's bread and butter are the movements and controls. Ninja Gaiden miserably fail in those respects.

Which shouldn't be needed to platform. Those are hacks to make up for the shortcomings of the platforming. I'll never forget that part in the train yard where you have to climb up and have a bunch of drones harassing you at the same time. You fall? Start over.

And?

Was talking about the console version. Never got the PC version because it was reviewed negatively on Steam so I skipped it.

I. Your roundabout logic is infinitely more complicated than the mechanics of Ninja Gaiden Sigma. The levels of any platformer should engage the mind of a player at the start. Its controls are more responsive than any Mario game 2D or 3D. Mario doesn't even have the option to end a jump arc in the middle.

II. If core mechanics are hacks than I guess we should ban Mario players for jumping out of bounds or going down warp pipes. As for the drones... Two words: Jump Shot. Another Two Words: Git Gud.

III. It is not my fault you chose to be uninformed and acquired an inferior version.

 

[Puscifer]

PS2 is the goat console strictly because of its variety. Id argue you could easily find 100 games on PS2 that interests you: hell, buy it and just retro collect and you'll probably never have to buy another console again and I stand by tha.

 

[clarky]

PS2 is the goat console strictly because of its variety. Id argue you could easily find 100 games on PS2 that interests you: hell, buy it and just retro collect and you'll probably never have to buy another console again and I stand by tha.

And that has anything to do with the conversation because?

 

[64bitmodels]

Not to say, that some of the platformers of that era weren't quality. They were. Particularly Sly Cooper and Jak's sequels.

It's all quality. All of it. I like my Nintendo too but these games deserved way more credit than people gave em

PS2 is the goat console strictly because of its variety. Id argue you could easily find 100 games on PS2 that interests you: hell, buy it and just retro collect and you'll probably never have to buy another console again and I stand by tha.

We are talking about platformers sir

 

[Gaiff]

I. Your roundabout logic is infinitely more complicated than the mechanics of Ninja Gaiden Sigma. The levels of any platformer should engage the mind of a player at the start. Its controls are more responsive than any Mario game 2D or 3D. Mario doesn't even have the option to end a jump arc in the middle.

II. If core mechanics are hacks than I guess we should ban Mario players for jumping out of bounds or going down warp pipes. As for the drones... Two words: Jump Shot. Another Two Words: Git Gud.

III. It is not my fault you chose to be uninformed and acquired an inferior version.

Dude, your logic is; it doesn't suck if you already know the levels and how to limit the bad mechanics using unintended methods. And you say this is better than Super Mario 64? Sorry, but no.

The PC version came out what? 3 years ago? I played those games two decades ago lol. How did I acquire an inferior version when the PC version only came out recently?

 

[64bitmodels]

Ill ask again, name me a playstation platformer that you think is great at the time and ill name you a better one by Nintendo.

You said 5

But OK. I think Spyro 1 is a goated game.

 

[clarky]

You said 5

But OK. I think Spyro 1 is a goated game.

Super Mario 3 is better.

Edit :

3d world.
64.
Galaxy
Galaxy 2

thats if you want 5

Edit:

Tropical Freeze for 6.

 

[NeverYouMind]

I'd say Prince of persia sands of time did it much much better

Prince of Persia speed run:


Ninja Gaiden Sigma speed run:

 

[Gaiff]

Best thread I ever made.

I knew it was gonna get crazy but not "Earthworm Jim is better than Mario 64" crazy

Ninja Gaiden Black is in my top 5 favorite games of all time but a good platformer it ain't, and it sure as hell isn't better than Super Mario 64 in that regard.

 

[Unknown?]

Super Mario 3 is better.

Edit :

3d world.
64.
Galaxy
Galaxy 2

thats if you want 5

Edit:

Tropical Freeze for 6.

Ape Escape is better than all the 3D Mario games N64-GC.

 

[Hero_Select]

Psychonauts is better than Nintendo's whole catalogue. Sly Cooper and the Thievius Racoonus is on par with their best.

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

I'm not sure I would describe Ninja Gaiden as a platformer.

 

[64bitmodels]

Super Mario 3 is better.

Edit :

3d world.
64.
Galaxy
Galaxy 2

I like mario bros 3 but not as much as spyro. That game started getting bullshitty around the final levels

3d world is an all time classic thar deserved more love than it got
Same for 64

Idgaf about the last 2

Ape Escape is better than all the 3D Mario games N64-GC.

Pressing post on this thread was like planting 1 apple seed and getting a full harvest the next day