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[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

We are in a thread talking about platformers?

Sure, but this thread is about platformers, not the other genres.

I....somehow skipped over that word when reading the thread title . Think it was because I was also posting in the Linus thread about platforms and crossed wires. I read Gaiff 's initial comment and thought he was comparing that to all Sony games not just platformers.

My bad :/

 

[elhav]

I Swear this is one of those threads designed to trap crack heads and be used as evidence.

 

[Gaiff]

Now we're just veering into semantics. Most games aren't a single pure genre aside from sports and puzzle games, they often blend multiple genres to varying degrees.

Ratchet & Clank, Jak, and Sly are adventure games, yes, but that's such a loose term that damn near every game is an adventure game to some extent. The point is, is platforming enough of a core part of their designs to label them as platformers? Do you need to master jumping, depth and distance perception, timing, and all that jazz to a certain degree to play them?

The original Ratchet & Clank is without a doubt a platformer. The Gorda City level definitely gives any Mario 64 level a run for their money (except Tick Tok Clock and Rainbow Ride), yet, it's also a shooter. Going Commando strays away from platforming and more into shooting and Up Your Arsenal is even more of a shooter.

Some games such as Ninja Gaiden don't feature enough platforming to be part of the discussion. You spend entire levels not platforming at all. Hell, the entire Hayabusa Village level, which is the second one, has almost no platforming.

I think we can allow a certain level of wiggle room for some games. There haven't been many pure platformers since the N64 days.

 

[NeverYouMind]

I didn't finish the game because of its awful controls and platforming. I dare anyone play that game today and then SM Sunshine and tell me that it feels better to play. Sunshine sucks but it still has better platforming than Psychonauts trash.

I played the two games about a month apart. I enthusiastically played Psychonauts to completion because it always builds on its offerings both naratively and mechanically. I got too bored to continue in Super Mario Sunshine after an evening of doing the same crap over and over.

Some games such as Ninja Gaiden don't feature enough platforming to be part of the discussion. You spend entire levels not platforming at all. Hell, the entire Hayabusa Village level, which is the second one, has almost no platforming.

You need to jump into/out of the elevator crate, wall run across a gap, slide down ramp, traverse water/branches, jump up scaffolding, and jump over burning debris...

 

[Gaiff]

I played the two games about a month apart. I enthusiastically played Psychonauts to completion because it always builds on its offerings both naratively and mechanically. I got too bored to continue in Super Mario Sunshine after an evening of doing the same crap over and over.

Compared to your takes, the OP looks like an iceberg.

Come on, man.

 

[64bitmodels]

Now we're just veering into semantics. Most games aren't a single pure genre aside from sports and puzzle games, they often blend multiple genres to varying degrees.

Ratchet & Clank, Jak, and Sly are adventure games, yes, but that's such a loose term that damn near every game is an adventure game to some extent. The point is, is platforming enough of a core part of their designs to label them as platformers? Do you need to master jumping, depth and distance perception, timing, and all that jazz to a certain degree to play them?

The original Ratchet & Clank is without a doubt a platformer. The Gorda City level definitely gives any Mario 64 level a run for their money (except Tick Tok Clock and Rainbow Ride), yet, it's also a shooter. Going Commando strays away from platforming and more into shooting and Up Your Arsenal is even more of a shooter.

Some games such as Ninja Gaiden don't feature enough platforming to be part of the discussion. You spend entire levels not platforming at all. Hell, the entire Hayabusa Village level, which is the second one, has almost no platforming.

I think we can allow a certain level of wiggle room for some games. There haven't been many pure platformers since the N64 days.

Tl:dr you can call ratchet trash without trying to gatekeep what the hell a platformer is lmao

 

[StueyDuck]

I'd certainly say action/platformers or adventure/platformers or something like that. Then yes for playstation. Definitely.

But for a to b complete the course type platforming Nintendo games (Mario mostly) is still goat

 

[clarky]

I'd certainly say action/platformers or adventure/platformers or something like that. Then yes for playstation. Definitely.

But for purr a to b complete the course type platforming Nintendo games (Mario mostly) is still goat

Post#157 nails it. Why was that so hard?

 

[Trilobit]

After having enjoyed both Ape Escape 2 and Sly Cooper 2 I realized that PS2 had much better 3D platform adventure games than any Nintendo console. Super Mario 64 is pretty much the gold standard when it comes to platformers, but it isn't an adventure in the same sense.

 

[clarky]

After having enjoyed both Ape Escape 2 and Sly Cooper 2 I realized that PS2 had much better 3D platform adventure games than any Nintendo console. Super Mario 64 is pretty much the gold standard when it comes to platformers, but it isn't an adventure in the same sense.

Trapped another one.

Edit: Sorry didn't see you'd changed the brief to 3d adventure games with some jumping, that's a whole different story.

 

[mystech]

I'd say PS2 has one of the best selection of games period! If the PS5 Pro can use its AI upscaling for classic PS2 games, it will be worth it.

 

[Closer]

Are Call of Duty and Counter Strike platformers?

 

[Buggy Loop]

You could have just said against gamecube and it would have flown better than "most nintendo systems", cause that's a crazy statement.

 

[Neff]

Psychonauts is better than Nintendo's whole catalogue.

Mario 64 is the definition of a mediocre game. If it did not have Nintendo branding it would be forgotten.

 

[Shut0wen]

Most of the games you mentioned are not pure platformers, but rather action-adventure with platforming elements.
But I agree they were awesome and I think PS2 had a better library than any Nintendo console.

As someone who still plays a ps2 now and again (i have it chipped) a majority of ps2 games that are exclusive to the console (not funded by sony) are pure vapourware games, id still say ps2 was the best sony console with the number of games to choose from but ultimately id say switch has far better games with the same selection of games, the best ps2 games in that generation are all third party games that look 10x better on the og xbox and gamecube

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

PS2 had the 3 GOATS of Ratchet, Sly Cooper, and Jak and Daxter. 3 games from each franchise on the system (except Ratchet which had 4.) These 3 franchises alone added 10 must play platformer games to the PS2.

Plus the glorious Ape Escape 2 and 3, Crash Twinsanity, Klonoa 2, and psychonauts. Not gonna lie, outside of NES, SNES and Switch you'd be hard pressed to find a Nintendo system with that many great platformers.

and no Zelda is not a platformer.

Thanks for letting us know Zelda isn’t a platformer. I think we all really were struggling where to place it genre-wise until your post.

Also, maybe a hot take but still mostly a bad take. Quantity over quality, who would choose that route? Also I love it when people say stuff like this but then immediately undermine their own point by removing three of Nintendo’s best systems. Somehow that makes sense? Just completely arbitrary at that point.

Interesting.

 

[RoboFu]

Nah all those games you listed are mediocre at best.

 

[Unknown?]

I Swear this is one of those threads designed to trap crack heads and be used as evidence.

You are ensnared my friend.

 

[diffusionx]

Jak & Dexter is a really good platformer, but I wouldn't say Jak 2 or 3 are. Sly Cooper are platformers, but I don't think Ratchet are.

If someone walked into the videogame store I worked at in 2003 and said their kid loves platformers and what system should I buy... I would have recommended a GameCube.

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. That is why even with less polished mechanics Psychonauts towers over Nintendo's catalogue. The amount of ideas in a single world of Psychonauts is more than an entire game by Nintendo.


The platforming and level design in Mario 64 makes Rare look like geniuses because they actually refined their implementation instead of throwing a bunch of shit on a wall and sticking with it.

Psychonauts does have lots of good ideas, but it's an awful, awful platformer with bad level design and horrible control. I would say it's unplayable today, actually.

The rest of your posts are lunacy. Mediocre games are not played 30 years later, not even Nintendo ones. Nobody is making 3 hour videos about Yoshi's Story. Super Mario 64 is perhaps the most incredible video game ever made. Nintendo was basically building the plane as they were flying it. They never made a 3D game before, barely anyone made a 3D game before, and they were doing it for hardware that wasn't finished, yet they somehow managed to make a game that people are still playing, loving, and unpacking 30 years later.

The reason why Nintendo didn't refine their implementation was because there was nothing to refine - they were the ones who implemented it.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Sly Cooper and Jak and Daxter platforming GOATs??!

 

[SmokedMeat]

Super Mario 64 dunks on all of those.

So, no.

Dude. Super Mario Sunshine dunks on all of those.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Nintendo was never really known for high volume of games (until recently).

That's still the case, if you take out the ports and the endless outsourcing

 

[Unknown?]

Dude. Super Mario Sunshine dunks on all of those.

Sunshine wasn't great when it released and it aged poorly but so have the Jak sequels. Only the first one is good IMO.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Nintendo was never really known for high volume of games (until recently). PS1 and PS2 beat them big time with the number of games released. Nintendo systems used to have large drought periods for years. Most Nintendo series usually just get 1 entry on the system. But almost all those games turn out to be masterpieces.

Nintendo's output has increased this gen though.

Has their output increased? I mean are we just adding up all Switch first-party games? Lots of Wii U conversions in that list. Plus, it's been a really long cycle, so I think you'd have to go with averages per year alongside previous consoles, vs total output, otherwise the statistic doesn't really mean anything. And since games take longer now, has their output increased for Switch vs them having to balance continuous output simultaneously for two different systems?

Zelda games take 6 years now. And we haven't had a new Mario Kart in 10 years. They only do one Mario per console generation, and same with Animal Crossing and Smash.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Sunshine wasn't great when it released and it aged poorly but so have the Jak sequels. Only the first one is good IMO.

It was made during the brief period of time during the short-lived GameCube era where Nintendo was focusing on making challenging, complex sequels to N64 games. It certainly is a far more challenging and complex game than Mario 64, and builds off of the foundation of that game.

Personally it was Nintendo at their best. Best Paper Mario, best 3D Zelda, best 3D Mario, best Smash, Pikmin 2 was like a challenge fire gauntlet version of Pikmin 1. Maybe not the best Mario Kart. Eh, can't win 'em all

 

[Esppiral]

You are right, not only the one mentioned but many lesser know platformers were great

 

[Švejk]

Nintendo is pretty much always overrated, and for some reason, always gets put on a pedastal to be compared to. They're about as mediocre to me as Sega became when they exited the hardware market.

 

[RickMasters]

No. Matter of fact nobody makes platformers, better than Nintendo. Their attention to game design details is above everybody else’s.

 

[Gaiff]

Jesus Christ, what kind of horrors have you unleashed upon Gaf 64bitmodels ? The takes in this thread are something else. Mario Sunshine the best 3D Mario. The padded and bloated mess that are WW and TP the best Zeldas. Earthworm Jim and Ninja Gaiden better platformers than Super Mario 64.

I have no words.

 

[SHA]

The PS2 is a freak.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

SOME Nintendo systems, sure. But if you count third party, multiplat games as well, it’s always pretty close, except for the N64.

In quantity, at least. Quality is debatable. Thinking that Psychonauts‘s gameplay can even tie the bootlaces of the most mediocre Nintendo platformer is a sign a person needs strong meds. Thinking Super Mario Bros 1 has aged like milk is beyond saving and, frankly, this is one fine troll thread.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Jesus Christ, what kind of horrors have you unleashed upon Gaf 64bitmodels ? The takes in this thread are something else. Mario Sunshine the best 3D Mario. The padded and bloated mess that are WW and TP the best Zeldas. Earthworm Jim and Ninja Gaiden better platformers than Super Mario 64.

I have no words.

Lol, I haven’t read it all because I’ve had enough madness for a day already. But seriously, Earthworm Jim reaches lows lower than a bunch of serviceable NES games.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Dude, Jak and Daxter aren't even good games let alone great platformers, they are dog shit.

The first Jak & Daxter is legit.

The other ones...were just trying to be GTA clones.

The way Naughty Dog went from Jak 2/3 and the racing game to Uncharted 1/2/3/TLOU the next gen...talk about a comeback!

 

[64bitmodels]

The padded and bloated mess that are WW and TP the best Zeldas.

dont insult windwaker my beloved

 

[NeverYouMind]

Lol, I haven’t read it all because I’ve had enough madness for a day already. But seriously, Earthworm Jim reaches lows lower than a bunch of serviceable NES games.

What lows Nintendo fanboy?

Psychonauts does have lots of good ideas, but it's an awful, awful platformer with bad level design and horrible control. I would say it's unplayable today, actually.

Except it is playable and in higher fidelity than any Nintendo game with mods on PC. The level designs are more brilliant than any Nintendo game because they seemlessly blend art design, purpose, challenge, and narrative. The controls are a bit rough relative to the sequel, but they are more than adequate for platforming. They also become more flexible with new powers which dunk on mechanics in any 3D Super Mario.

The rest of your posts are lunacy. Mediocre games are not played 30 years later, not even Nintendo ones. Nobody is making 3 hour videos about Yoshi's Story. Super Mario 64 is perhaps the most incredible video game ever made. Nintendo was basically building the plane as they were flying it. They never made a 3D game before, barely anyone made a 3D game before, and they were doing it for hardware that wasn't finished, yet they somehow managed to make a game that people are still playing, loving, and unpacking 30 years later.

The reason why Nintendo didn't refine their implementation was because there was nothing to refine - they were the ones who implemented it.

The power of nostalgia boners and mass delusion are fascinating. It wasn't the first or the most refined of its time. Most games have a hectic development with dynamic hardware targets.

 

[EverydayBeast]

PS2 was a good experience, two birds with one stone (DVD, and Gaming) and SONY focused on games, you could dig into competitive online games (Socom), and so the claim that it has a better selection of platformers than "most" Nintendo systems isn't a stretch.

 

[nkarafo]

Nothing touches 3D platformers such as Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Odyssey.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Nothing touches 3D platformers such as Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Odyssey.

The good ones don't need to because they are so far above them.

 

[Robb]

Bigger selection maybe. Better, definitely not.

 

[nkarafo]

The good ones don't need to because they are so far above them.

Nah, i don't think there's anything else above them when it comes to 3D platformers, these are the peak. But that's just my opinion.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Nah, i don't think there anything else above them when it comes to 3D platformers, there are the peak. But that's just my opinion.

I guess you don't play many others...

 

[nkarafo]

I guess you don't play many others...

You guess wrong. 3D Platformers used to be my favorite genre for a while. More so than 2D ones in the past.

 

[bender]

Even though I have a new found appreciate for Sunshine, it's far from my favorite 3D Mario game (much closer to least) but I'd still probably pick it over anything on PS2 as I think it has aged better. I liked the original R&C trilogy as well as the original Jak ad Daxter (before Naughty Dog found a new trend to chase with the sequels). Sly Cooper is lovely but it never clicked with me and I boil it down to the character ledge magnetization found in that serious as well as inFamous. And speaking of not clicking with me, I know people love the Klonoa games but those have never held my interest. I do think that is more of a me thing than an issue with K2. I do love Ape Escape though.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

Psychonauts is better than Nintendo's whole catalogue. Sly Cooper and the Thievius Racoonus is on par with their best.

 

[AV]

He's right, but only because the platformers basically stopped at PS2. Nintendo carried on for another 3, almost 4 and counting, generations.

The PS2 has a better platformer selection, but no PS2 platformer is better than Mario Galaxy 1/2 or Odyssey.

 

[Jack Package]

 

[NeverYouMind]

He's right, but only because the platformers basically stopped at PS2. Nintendo carried on for another 3, almost 4 and counting, generations.

The PS2 has a better platformer selection, but no PS2 platformer is better than Mario Galaxy 1/2 or Odyssey.

There are a handful of better platformers on PS2 than Mario Galaxy 1/2, but the hardware limitations make it difficult for them to compete with Mario Odyssey.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Jesus Christ, what kind of horrors have you unleashed upon Gaf 64bitmodels ? The takes in this thread are something else. Mario Sunshine the best 3D Mario. The padded and bloated mess that are WW and TP the best Zeldas. Earthworm Jim and Ninja Gaiden better platformers than Super Mario 64.

I have no words.

Say wha?? Maybe you should revisit WW again. Struggling to see how that game is bloated at all. TP, eh maybe fair.

 

[AV]

Say wha?? Maybe you should revisit WW again. Struggling to see how that game is bloated at all. TP, eh maybe fair.

Nintendo did take out a big chunk of the Triforce hunt for the re-release. Hours of bloat gone. Still a good game, but it was there.

 

[Banjo64]

Reading this thread I have so much to say, but also nothing at all to say.

Shame more recent games like A Hat in Time and Tinykin aren’t being mentioned. They’re better than anything Sony or Nintendo have put out in the past 10 years, and I include Odyssey in that.