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[mkenyon]

How big of a leap is a GTX580 3gb to a GTX680?

15%ish, so not much of one.

Its a lot quieter and cooler though.

 

[Babalu.]

ugh just built my computer and it doesn't turn on or post. The motherboard lights up (the start button, reset button, ROG red led sign) but nothing else thats helpful. No Q error codes no fans spin for even a second, nothing.

I have the 24pin power connector plugged in as well as the 8pin atx_12v1 plugged in (using a 4+4 connector).

I've taken all the power cables off, reattatched them all starting with only the motherboard ones and still nothing. Everything seems to be seated properly. It just wont start, not by pressing the start button on the motherboard nor from the power switch on the case.

Can anyone give me any advice for fixing this problem since it all lights up but just doesn't start? I dont want to take out everything again since i'm working on carpet and it sucks ass. I wore the static wrist strap and was touching the metal case every 20 seconds about. I don't remember how many MB standoffs I used but there are 9 i can see in the back of the case that i used.

I just don't know what to do since I don't have any tables in my house to take everything apart and rebuild it static free.

my parts:
Haf X case
Asus maximus v formula motherboard
i7 3770k
16gb (2x8) ares 1866 ram
gigabyte gtx 670 windforce
cm hyper 212 evo

this is seriously annoying. what could be the culprit? power supply? mother board? is there anyway to test this stuff without pulling it all out. I seriously don't want to risk messing more stuff up by moving everything around and out if I can help it

When I take everything out, how can I check if its the power supply or motherboard messing up? Are there steps anywhere?

 

[sk3tch]

I can't wait for someone to try to plug in their phone charger to that thing At least the charger will blow before they are likely to connect their phone to the charger.

That's why it's sideways. I already nuked a surge protector before I knew any better, lol.

 

[Wolf Akela]

I JUST noticed that my rear exhaust fan wasn't plugged for about over a week, ever since I bought my new HDD. I didn't notice how frigging hot my PC was until I touched the top of the case. I checked the temps and WOW 80-90c for the motherboard core, from the usual ~55c. One exhaust fan spells that much difference.

snip

You can easily test either motherboard or powersupply if you have spares of them. You don't have to take them out.

 

[Fantomex]

A store near me has Corsair SSD 128 gb 286mps for $40 after rebate. What say you Gaf? Too slow?

 

[mkenyon]

my parts:
Haf X case
Asus maximus v formula motherboard
i7 3770k
16gb (2x8) ares 1866 ram
gigabyte gtx 670 windforce
cm hyper 212 evo

That's a lot of motherboard for not a lot of cooling!

How to troubleshoot lack of POST (outside of what you have done)

1) Try a single stick of RAM, then the other, then different slots one at a time.
2) Update BIOS. With the RoG boards, format a USB stick with FAT32, then plop the BIOS file in the root directory. There is a WHITE USB slot directly next to a little button with what looks like a chain logo on it. Put your USB drive in that one, and hold down the button until it starts flashing. Then let it do its thing.
3) Remove *everything* that isn't necessary for POST. Basically, plug in the 24 pin, 8 pin, CPU, and RAM. Everything else should be unplugged from the motherboard. If it does POST successfully, then start adding things back one at a time.
4) If none of this has yet worked, you need to RTFM to see if there are specific settings that need to be altered. This board is intended for watercooling and LN2, so there are all sorts of little settings that might need to be adjusted. The Rampage IV Extreme, for example, comes with the LN2 mode on, and it won't even start because it's expecting the CPU to be at sub-zero temps.

*edit*
Also, for testing the PSU, you need to jump the 24 pin in order for it to think that it needs to be on.

(image taken down, google '24 pin jumper')

Then plug a fan into one of the molex cables to see if it spins.

A store near me has Corsair SSD 128 gb 286mps for $40 after rebate. What say you Gaf? Too slow?

Buy it. Doesn't even matter if its the M3 or M4, that's a steal. But, what is the rebate? I never count those as actual money off an item.

 

[Fantomex]

That's a lot of motherboard for not a lot of cooling!

How to troubleshoot lack of POST (outside of what you have done)

1) Try a single stick of RAM, then the other, then different slots one at a time.
2) Update BIOS. With the RoG boards, format a USB stick with FAT32, then plop the BIOS file in the root directory. There is a WHITE USB slot directly next to a little button with what looks like a chain logo on it. Put your USB drive in that one, and hold down the button until it starts flashing. Then let it do its thing.
3) Remove *everything* that isn't necessary for POST. Basically, plug in the 24 pin, 8 pin, CPU, and RAM. Everything else should be unplugged from the motherboard. If it does POST successfully, then start adding things back one at a time.
4) If none of this has yet worked, you need to RTFM to see if there are specific settings that need to be altered. This board is intended for watercooling and LN2, so there are all sorts of little settings that might need to be adjusted. The Rampage IV Extreme, for example, comes with the LN2 mode on, and it won't even start because it's expecting the CPU to be at sub-zero temps.


Buy it. Doesn't even matter if its the M3 or M4, that's a steal. But, what is the rebate? I never count those as actual money off an item.

It's a mail in rebate, that nets you a $40 prepaid visa gift card. I'd have to pay 79.99 right now however.

It's only available today at this link if anyone else is interested

http://www.frys.com/product/6320651?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

 

[mkenyon]

Wait wait wait. When I read Corsair, my brain translated it to Crucial for some really strange reason. For $80 out the door, no way.

 

[Fantomex]

Wait wait wait. When I read Corsair, my brain translated it to Crucial for some really strange reason. For $80 out the door, no way.

Ah ok ill hold off.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Holy fucking shit. Have you benchmarked Arkham Asylum with this by any chance? I'm curious if there is enough power in the world to make that game not stutter.

 

[SoulClap]

I wish my wiring was tidier and the color of the components matched better. I'll save that for when I get a new case.

 

[Azriell]

I'm considering this pc from newegg. The plan would be to put a 550w psu(?), 16gb of the corsair vengeance, and a GTX 660 ti into it. Would this be a worthwhile route to take?

I'm not up to trying to build from scratch, and am going to be getting rid of my current pc very soon. I thought it might be a good idea to buy something half decent (looking primarily at the CPU here), and then upgrading it right after Christmas when I'll have more disposable income. I'm not a big pc gamer, but that'd the primary purpose of this pc (ie it doesn't to be incredible, but I'd like something nice).

 

[Decado]

Do games installed on a SSD get a better frame-rate?

 

[CatPee]

I'm considering this pc from newegg. The plan would be to put a 550w psu(?), 16gb of the corsair vengeance, and a GTX 660 ti into it. Would this be a worthwhile route to take?

I'm not up to trying to build from scratch, and am going to be getting rid of my current pc very soon. I thought it might be a good idea to buy something half decent (looking primarily at the CPU here), and then upgrading it right after Christmas when I'll have more disposable income. I'm not a big pc gamer, but that'd the primary purpose of this pc (ie it doesn't to be incredible, but I'd like something nice).

Ehhhhh. For ~$1200 after everything, you could have a 3570K/670 with some smart choices in parts. Case doesn't look like it has very good airflow either. Mobo might be iffy, but I'm not sure on that.

Really, if you can put together Legos, you can put together a PC. Everything specifically fits with each other.

Do games installed on a SSD get a better frame-rate?

Better load times, maybe. Better framerate? Nope.

 

[Exuro]

Okay so I've been looking around at potentially upgrading my video card (gtx 260) and for some reason I went and checked out my motherboard on Newegg and saw a review saying that it doesn't support newer cards. I haven't seen any other information on it but I'd be really pissed off if I can't upgrade since I was hpoing to keep my cpu/mobo for another few years. Anyone know anything about this? Here's the newegg link.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128374

 

[Ragnarok]

Don't know if this is the right place to ask this but has anybody ever put together a small render farm to be used for video applications? What kind of performance could I expect with $5k?

 

[Jzero]

Okay so I've been looking around at potentially upgrading my video card (gtx 260) and for some reason I went and checked out my motherboard on Newegg and saw a review saying that it doesn't support newer cards. I haven't seen any other information on it but I'd be really pissed off if I can't upgrade since I was hpoing to keep my cpu/mobo for another few years. Anyone know anything about this? Here's the newegg link.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128374

I honestly don't get why it wouldn't work since the board is not that old.

 

[Azriell]

Really, if you can put together Legos, you can put together a PC. Everything specifically fits with each other.

I do want to try building my own, it just seems so overwhelming. I've only watched a few minutes here and there of some build videos, but it seems a bit scary, especially when plugging X cable in over there in Y (the builder always seems to just know where it goes automatically, but from a first timer's perspective it looks really easy to fuck up).

Your response is encouraging though. I think I'll reconsider building again after all.

 

[Exuro]

I honestly don't get why it wouldn't work since the board is not that old.

That was the plan when I bought it. Have the mobo/cpu last a while and eventually replace the card. I got my ssd running and its super nice along with a new cooler on the cpu so the gpu is the last thing I really need to upgrade. The lock up club thing he's talking about was at the nvidia forums which I guess have been shut down, so I dunno what to do. My roommate has a 465 that I could try out, but the guy says certain 400/500 cards so I'm not sure.

 

[mkenyon]

That was the plan when I bought it. Have the mobo/cpu last a while and eventually replace the card. I got my ssd running and its super nice along with a new cooler on the cpu so the gpu is the last thing I really need to upgrade. The lock up club thing he's talking about was at the nvidia forums which I guess have been shut down, so I dunno what to do. My roommate has a 465 that I could try out, but the guy says certain 400/500 cards so I'm not sure.

Looks like it's PCI-E 1.0, which means most things will be bottlenecked heavily. Just get a new 1366/x58 board used. They're ridiculously cheap, even the RoG ones are like $100. Check out Hardforum/OCN/ebay.

I do want to try building my own, it just seems so overwhelming. I've only watched a few minutes here and there of some build videos, but it seems a bit scary, especially when plugging X cable in over there in Y (the builder always seems to just know where it goes automatically, but from a first timer's perspective it looks really easy to fuck up).

Your response is encouraging though. I think I'll reconsider building again after all.

Just watch the videos in the OP. It's so hard to screw anything up as long as you avoid touching the gold fingers that transmit data/power between components and the motherboard. PCB is really durable and you can handle it a lot more than you might think when first looking at it. Even with power cords, you literally can not plug something in if it doesn't go there. If it fits, that's where it goes. So simple. I'd say Legos are far more complex.

 

[Exuro]

Looks like it's PCI-E 1.0, which means most things will be bottlenecked heavily. Just get a new 1366/x58 board used. They're ridiculously cheap, even the RoG ones are like $100. Check out Hardforum/OCN/ebay.

I'm pretty sure it's 2.0. My manual states it conforms to PCI Express 2.0 standard.

EDIT: also says it in expansion slots.

 

[mkenyon]

I'm pretty sure it's 2.0. My manual states it conforms to PCI Express 2.0 standard.

Yeah, that means that it is compatible with PCI-E 2.0 devices, which it is. Pretty shady language there.

*edit*

Actually, run GPU-Z and see what it says. Then google that thing the guy says to google in the review.

 

[Exuro]

Yeah, that means that it is compatible with PCI-E 2.0 devices, which it is. Pretty shady language there.

Well on Newegg it says "PCI Express 2.0 x16" under expansion slots.

 

[mkenyon]

Well on Newegg it says "PCI Express 2.0 x16" under expansion slots.

Yeah, you're right. I was looking to the right of it. It's late!

 

[Exuro]

Man you were freaking me out there lol. Guess I just need to find a good deal on a card now.

So it should be able to work. Hmm that's weird. You should try using your friends card.

Yeah I'll try that tomorrow. Will I need to do anything driver wise even though it should be the same?

 

[Jzero]

Well on Newegg it says "PCI Express 2.0 x16" under expansion slots.

So it should be able to work. Hmm that's weird. You should try using your friends card.

 

[Razek]

Got a question for ya!

The PSU is on the bottom of my case. I believe I have my PSU's exhaust fan facing inside my case. I do have a mesh on the bottom which I assume is for facing it the other way.

It blows into my GPU which gets decent temps, idling at 42 and never going past 80. Should I bother wasting my time flipping the PSU? It would be a bit of a hassle and I don't care if it's going to shave off like 1c.

 

[Link0080]

Built it last night and forgot to post a pic for you guys.

i5 3570k
Biostar TZ77B
G Skill Ripjaws DDR3 1600 8GB
MSI GTX 660TI 2GB
Rosewill Challenger

Not the best wiring but I'll worry about that later. Also, I'll get another CPU cooler later for overclocking.

I'm not sure if this is the place to ask but I've been having a problem with FRAPS. When I record Dota 2 I get fine fps like 60+ but when I watch the video it's incredibly laggy like 15 fps and the sound is weird too. I also tried BF3 and the fps in-game while recording is 1-5.

Does anyone know wtf is going on? Recorded just fine on my older PC.

 

[Albino_Samurai]

Awesome! New Fresh Topic!
Shame i just relocated my DAW system back in to the studio.
Pics will follow soon when i install more RAM.

Could we get back to the issue from page 1 cause now i'm realy confused...
I realy could use some help here cause i don't understand some basic differences between certain motherboards and certain compatibilty.
I'd like to be able to understand the main difference between motherboards with 2 CPU's and those with only the one CPU.
Wich would eventualy fit better for playing games, making games, realtime (UE4) editing, Steinberg Nuendo and other hefty software products?
(In real life i just want to play and edit UT4 in 4K)

I can't find any specific information or details on the internet about game/entertainment systems that actualy use a motherboard with 2 CPU's and i would like to know the technical explenation behind this. (maybe i'm not looking in the right places tho...)
Understand that to a lamen like me, more CPU's and RAM ~ MORE POWER!!

I'd like to understand the difference between these server/workstation boards with multiple CPU's and desktop boards with 1 CPU and their different capabilties in comparison.
From what i understand technologywise, i would be best of with a Supermicro X9DA7.

Specs and details here

The other option i was looking at is the Asus Z9PE-D8 WS

Specs and details here

But if these kind of boards with 2 CPU's don't go to well with what i have in mind, what is the best board out there for the things i want to do?
The last things i want are compatibility and driver issues, lag, low framerates, overheating....

Money realy isn't much of an issue, but the knowledge on how to build such a machine is!
And basicly, i realy like would to build the damn thing myself and understand what the hell i'm doing.
I think my Xigmatek Elysium can handle just about any hardware it needs to make it work, but i honestly don't have a clue on where to start!

 

[n0n44m]

I can't wait for someone to try to plug in their phone charger to that thing At least the charger will blow before they are likely to connect their phone to the charger.

aren't all chargers these days 100~240V compatible ?

Awesome! New Fresh Topic!
Shame i just relocated my DAW system back in to the studio.
Pics will follow soon when i install more RAM.

Could we get back to the issue from page 1 cause now i'm realy confused...
I realy could use some help here cause i don't understand some basic differences between certain motherboards and certain compatibilty.
I'd like to be able to understand the main difference between motherboards with 2 CPU's and those with only the one CPU.
Wich would eventualy fit better for playing games, making games, realtime (UE4) editing, Steinberg Nuendo and other hefty software products?
(In real life i just want to play and edit UT4 in 4K)

I can't find any specific information or details on the internet about game/entertainment systems that actualy use a motherboard with 2 CPU's and i would like to know the technical explenation behind this. (maybe i'm not looking in the right places tho...)
Understand that to a lamen like me, more CPU's and RAM ~ MORE POWER!!

I'd like to understand the difference between these server/workstation boards with multiple CPU's and desktop boards with 1 CPU and their different capabilties in comparison.
From what i understand technologywise, i would be best of with a Supermicro X9DA7.

Specs and details here

The other option i was looking at is the Asus Z9PE-D8 WS

Specs and details here

But if these kind of boards with 2 CPU's don't go to well with what i have in mind, what is the best board out there for the things i want to do?
The last things i want are compatibility and driver issues, lag, low framerates, overheating....

Money realy isn't much of an issue, but the knowledge on how to build such a machine is!
And basicly, i realy like would to build the damn thing myself and understand what the hell i'm doing.
I think my Xigmatek Elysium can handle just about any hardware it needs to make it work, but i honestly don't have a clue on where to start!

basically it boils down to single-threaded versus multi-threaded performance

the top of the line consumer CPU from Intel offers 6 cores with 12 threads. Their top of the line professional (Xeon) CPUs offer 6c/12t as well but you can use 2 of them with these boards you mentioned, giving you a whopping 12 cores and 24 threads. (only Intel Xeon CPUs or whatever AMDs equivalent is can be used in dual CPU setups, regular CPUs miss some linking interfaces that are needed to use two CPUs on 1 board)

now for software that is perfectly multi-threaded, such as (I guess!) video editing software or rendering software , the 2-cpu system will give you virtually double the performance compared to the single cpu system assuming that both are running at the same clockspeed

however most games out there are still very far from being perfectly multi-threaded in practical terms; even though virtually every modern games runs better on multi-core CPUs , hardly any games (Civilization 5 is a good exception) really show a noticable improvement going from say, a 3.5 GHz Intel Quad-Core to a 3.5 GHz Intel Six-Core

in practical terms it turns out that most games are still running on just a few threads, so the best way to increase performance in these games is not by adding more threads (AKA more cores per CPU or more CPUs) but by increasing the performance per thread, which means OVERCLOCKING

so to cut a long story short; a cheap Intel 4core 4 thread 2500K with a cheap CM212+ cooler and a somewhat decent motherboard should be overclockable to at least 4.5 GHz without much issues. At that speed it should perform significantly better in most current games than some top of the line dual Xeon 12 core 24 thread system would do as that is running on a much lower clockspeed...

now the reason hardly anyone has a dual-CPU system for gaming/entertainment (like you've noticed) is simply that for less than the price of all that professional dual CPU hardware (expensive motherboards, Xeon CPUs are more expensive than regular CPUs) I could buy a great Asus overclocking motherboard, a big 6 core 12 thread CPU, and some custom watercooling to keep all the heat in check and run that baby at 5 GHz.

No dual-CPU system could come close to that, as none of them are able to overclock. There is one exception, the older EVGA SR-2 motherboard which does allow for overclocking on certain older Xeon socket 1366, but even then it's a pretty exotic board which I can't really recommend to anyone but the most hardcore tweakers





now the thing is that for UE4 there might be a lot of multi-threaded optimizations, which would make it run better on lower clockspeed CPUs that still have plenty of threads. However we'll only know for sure once the independent objective benchmarks are out there right

in your case the question really depends if gaming or productivity is more important

for 4K gaming you'd need at least an SLI (crossfire) setup, preferably tri-SLI even (for 60 fps). Yes I've seen the 4K demo with that Dirt game running at 30 fps/ 1 GPU but the Dirt games are hardly the most graphically intensive ones out there

does the software you use totally rely on CPU power or do they maybe support stuff like CUDA or other GPU-based accelerators ?

if you are currently comparing a dual CPU tri-SLI system in a game like Battlefield 3, it would not be able to really take advantage from the tri-SLI like an overclocked single CPU system would. In that sense the dual CPU wouldn't offer any added value in gaming, whereas a well-overclocked single CPU system could still offer some value in productivity software even when compared to dual-CPU systems (i.e. if you overclock by 30% you should see a 30% performance increase in perfectly multi-threaded software as well, hardly the 100% from a second CPU but at a lower price ^^)

so therefore I'd say a single CPU system offers more value for your money at the moment, but again I can't say what Unreal Engine 4 is going to be like (still seeing as how most socket 2011 Xeons are below 3 GHz, I can't imagine them performing at the level of a 4.5 GHz+ Sandy/Ivy Bridge, no matter how great UE4 is going to be)

edit: if you use specific workstation hardware the best board would be the P9X79 WS , as it is still aimed at the workstation crowd (RAID & Capture cards etc) while allowing for some high clock speeds. Otherwise any top-of-the-line Asus or Gigabyte socket 2011 motherboard wouldn't disappoint. Asrock also has a new enthusiast board with a pretty decent integrated RAID card if I remember correctly

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_2011/P9X79_WS/#overview

 

[sk3tch]

Holy fucking shit. Have you benchmarked Arkham Asylum with this by any chance? I'm curious if there is enough power in the world to make that game not stutter.

Sorry, no. Been pretty much Borderlands 2 and BF3 round here. I did play Arkham City (or whatever the newest Batman game is called) a bit and I don't recall any issues. What setup did you try it on where you had stutter with Arkham Asylum? Did you try turning down or turning off PhysX?

 

[Mash]

GAF just got a new LED TV and am starting to PC game on it at 1080, loving it but especially with Steam Big Picture but I'm thinking I could do with a graphics card upgrade. Got a HD 4650 at the moment and want to know the best I can get for £100. I was looking at the GTX 650 but not sure if this is the best available. Advice? Any Good deals?

 

[sk3tch]

That's a lot of motherboard for not a lot of cooling!

You're just an air cooling hater. The CM Hyper 212 Evo is a killer air cooler and an insane value at around $30. I have my i5 2500k box at 4.7 GHz rock solid for months and months.

 

[Gowans]

Look's like it's time for my desktop to get upgraded as it's getting smoked by my Macbook.

I'm in the UK, any purchase suggestions for around £200 to beef it up?


Quick Current Spec Summary

Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
BIOS: Default System BIOS
Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 6000+ (2 CPUs), ~3.0GHz
Memory: 4096MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 4096MB RAM
Card name: ATI Radeon HD 5670
Manufacturer: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Chip type: AMD Radeon Graphics Processor (0x68D8)
DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
Display Memory: 2295 MB
Dedicated Memory: 503 MB
Shared Memory: 1791 MB
Current Mode: 1920 x 1200 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor Name: HP w2448h Wide LCD Monitor
Monitor Model: HP w2448h
Monitor Id: HWP2815
Native Mode: 1920 x 1200(p) (59.950Hz)
Output Type: HDMI

 

[Cystm]

20% off all VGA cooling products @ Newegg.

EMCNAHB89

Expires 10/4/12.

 

[Thraktor]

the top of the line consumer CPU from Intel offers 6 cores with 12 threads. Their top of the line professional (Xeon) CPUs offer 6c/12t as well but you can use 2 of them with these boards you mentioned, giving you a whopping 12 cores and 24 threads.

Actually Xeons go up to 8 cores (16 threads), but the rest of the post is good advice.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Sorry, no. Been pretty much Borderlands 2 and BF3 round here. I did play Arkham City (or whatever the newest Batman game is called) a bit and I don't recall any issues. What setup did you try it on where you had stutter with Arkham Asylum? Did you try turning down or turning off PhysX?

2500k, 8 gigs, 2x680's. It's when you're gliding around the city. Someone on here explained that it's because of Unreal Engine 3 sucking and being limited in it's ram usage, which makes it impossible (I think?) for the game to not stutter. You could edit an .ini file to force the game to use more ram than the UE3 limit, but it would crash after a few seconds of smoothness.

EDIT: Here's the original post:

Yes, but the game exe is 32-bit, and even though it's large address aware, as soon as it hits 2 GB of system RAM usage it encounters errors and fucks itself.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO TEST AND WANT TO REPORT YOUR RESULTS, HERE ARE MY SETTINGS TO KEEP THINGS CONSISTENT
1080p, 32x CSAA, Max everything on DX9, 16x AF forced through drivers and ini's, Shadowmapresolution @ 4096, PhysX HIGH, Vsync + Triple buffering ON


Glide through the city while rapidly panning the camera. You will see hitches and drops below 60 FPS if everything is how it should be NORMALLY, yet with backgroundstreaming disabled you won't see the hitches.

Ok, here's how to force the game to load into RAM entirely (note, load times will increase):

In Bmengine.ini, change the following (ignore my ; comments, they are there to show you what default was)

bUseBackgroundLevelStreaming=False ;original is True
TimeBetweenPurgingPendingKillObjects=15 ;original is 60
SizeOfPermanentObjectPool=20600000 ;original is 11600000

Enjoy. Try crossing the city, it will crash about halfway through. Also open up task manager and check out the RAM usage. You will see once it gets close to 209,7xxxxx kb of RAM usage that the application will encounter an error.

 

[n0n44m]

Actually Xeons go up to 8 cores (16 threads), but the rest of the post is good advice.

hmm true, was still thinking about those older SR-2 compatible ones

time for an 8 core Extreme Edition would smash the TDP of the current chips though

Look's like it's time for my desktop to get upgraded as it's getting smoked by my Macbook.

I'm in the UK, any purchase suggestions for around £200 to beef it up?


Quick Current Spec Summary

you know the motherboard as well? I fear the Athlon 64 X2 is going to be quite a bottleneck even with a newer GPU...

 

[·feist·]

Shame to see Scott at Tech Report embarrass himself.

With such a paucity of legit tech sites which are truly reliable, thorough and -most importantly- knowledgeable, you'd hate to question if you should be reading one on that short list.

 

[Gowans]

you know the motherboard as well? I fear the Athlon 64 X2 is going to be quite a bottleneck even with a newer GPU...

Is there a easy way to find out?

 

[·feist·]

Is there a easy way to find out?

MB model? Open the case and read the model # off the PCB, or use a program like this: http://www.piriform.com/speccy

Bottleneck? That CPU will bottleneck any worthwhile, current GPU.

 

[mkenyon]

Money realy isn't much of an issue, but the knowledge on how to build such a machine is!
And basicly, i realy like would to build the damn thing myself and understand what the hell i'm doing.
I think my Xigmatek Elysium can handle just about any hardware it needs to make it work, but i honestly don't have a clue on where to start!

In addition to the awesome post from n0n44m, it's really as simple as this.

Games in which processor has a significant impact on performance are single or dual threaded engines where the only thing that matters is speed per core. This is why 5ghz processors do so well in these games. Borderlands 2, for example, benefits from large cache and very speedy cores.

Now watch how the performance climbs as the frequency increases.

By contrast, the video card being used, while significant, does not have the same percentage of an impact on performance as the CPU.

The games that are multi-threaded, or extremely processor efficient, instead place the bottleneck on the videocard. Civ V, is n-threaded, meaning it can use as many cores as a system has. Notice that there isn't any significant difference between the processors here.

By contrast, here is the performance in Civ V between videocards.

Another example is BF3.

Again, the bottleneck goes straight to the videocard.

So, in summary, the reason why these dual Xeon/Operton boards don't do well in gaming is because you can't overclock them to get the same kind of performance per core like you can with SB, SB-E, and Ivy. In the games where CPU matters, they'll actually perform WORSE than a high clocked 2500K, as 14-15 of your threads will be going entirely unused. The times when they are actually used, the fact that you have 16 threads won't matter because the bottleneck will be on the GPU.

 

[KalBalboa]

So I'm trying to decide if I should just upgrade my graphics card & memory and add an SSD to my current config or if I should just start anew. Here's my current system:

Motherboard: MSI 880GM-E43
CPU: AMD Athlon II X4 630 Propus 2.8GHz Quad Core
RAM: 3x 2 GB Samsung DDR3-1333 PC3-10600
Graphics Card: 9400 GT 1024mb (I need to double-check on the manufacturer)



My current machine is used primarily for After Effects work and has an with a semi-ancient for my graphics card, as you can tell. I have two 7200 RPM drives running there with a 450 Watt power supply to cover my bases. I'm assuming my CPU isn't ideal, but it seems to be good enough for the next year or two.

Think it'd be worth it to simply upgrade my RAM to a hefty 16 gigs of Vengeance, install a 128 GB SSD, and a strong video card, or should I just start with a clean slate considering the CPU & mobo? I've been a bit out of the loop and frankly don't know if the two would bottleneck me.

 

[mkenyon]

My post above answers whether it will be a bottleneck.

This article will give some more in-depth information.

If it's not too hard on the budget, I'd suggest starting anew. X79 + 3820 might be a decent option for you and leave room for an eventual CPU upgrade with IvyBridge-E.

 

[n0n44m]

So I'm trying to decide if I should just upgrade my graphics card & memory and add an SSD to my current config or if I should just start anew. Here's my current system:

Motherboard: MSI 880GM-E43
CPU: AMD Athlon II X4 630 Propus 2.8GHz Quad Core
RAM: 3x 2 GB Samsung DDR3-1333 PC3-10600
Graphics Card: 9400 GT 1024mb (I need to double-check on the manufacturer)



My current machine is used primarily for After Effects work and has an with a semi-ancient for my graphics card, as you can tell. I have two 7200 RPM drives running there with a 450 Watt power supply to cover my bases. I'm assuming my CPU isn't ideal, but it seems to be good enough for the next year or two.

Think it'd be worth it to simply upgrade my RAM to a hefty 16 gigs of Vengeance, install a 128 GB SSD, and a strong video card, or should I just start anew considering the CPU & mobo? I've been a bit out of the loop and frankly don't know if the two would bottleneck me.

the Athlon II X4 is definitely going to be a bottleneck, it's lack of cache is really hurting. Had one at 3.6 GHz with a Nvidia GTX 480 before moving to a 2600K , made a night and day difference in Bad Company 2 ... so I wouldn't recommend using it with a new "strong" videocard

a Phenom II X4 with a small overclock should do a lot better already; maybe you can find a used one for a good price?

also even though I have the Vengeance RAM myself, it's not really worth the extra price IMHO besides I don't see any test reports of 8GB sticks on the MSI site, so I don't know if the motherboard even accepts 8 GB sticks ...


all in all I'd definitely start saving for a new board+cpu, the Borderlands 2 benchmarks show how big the AMD-Intel gap is in certain games at the moment ...

 

[mkenyon]

all in all I'd definitely start saving for a new board+cpu, the Borderlands 2 benchmarks show how big the AMD-Intel gap is in certain games at the moment ...

I think the most interesting difference between the processors is the frame latency mentioned in that Tech Report link. It's additional 'judder' beyond what is measurable in straight frames-per-second benches.

 

[KalBalboa]

the Athlon II X4 is definitely going to be a bottleneck, it's lack of cache is really hurting. Had one at 3.6 GHz with a Nvidia GTX 480 before moving to a 2600K , made a night and day difference in Bad Company 2 ... so I wouldn't recommend using it with a new "strong" videocard

a Phenom II X4 with a small overclock should do a lot better already; maybe you can find a used one for a good price?

also even though I have the Vengeance RAM myself, it's not really worth the extra price IMHO besides I don't see any test reports of 8GB sticks on the MSI site, so I don't know if the motherboard even accepts 8 GB sticks ...


all in all I'd definitely start saving for a new board+cpu, the Borderlands 2 benchmarks show how big the AMD-Intel gap is in certain games at the moment ...

It looks like I can grab a Phenom II for ~$100, but you make a good point about my current mobo potentially not being able to even use 8 gig sticks. I suppose I could potentially get a 4 x 4GB kit, if 8s aren't usable.

EDIT: Found this on MSI's specs " Supports four unbuffered DIMM of 1.5 Volt DDR3 800/1066/1333/1600* (OC) DRAM, 32GB Max." Looks like it can do 8 gig sticks ok.

My original intent was to replace a few parts (the SSD, RAM, video gard) in October and then get a new CPU & motherboard altogether in November, so I'll mull over what you guys suggested and pointed out here. Thanks a bunch.

 

[mkenyon]

Definitely avoid Athlon II -> Phenom II, that's not really an upgrade.

 

[KalBalboa]

Definitely avoid Athlon II -> Phenom II, that's not really an upgrade.

I should probably just PM you to avoid cluttering up this thread, but going from 0 L3 cache to 6 MB seems like it'd help with CS5, plus the slight boost from 2.8 to 3.6 GHz could make life a bit easier.

 

[kennah]

Nah, the clutter is welcome. There are always people who have questions about the Athlons and it is nice to have a discussion to show them.