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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 2. Haswell = #IntelnoTIM, but free online. READ THE OP.

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F

Future PhaZe

Member
Seanspeed said:
Is there a negative to pushing things to near instability, though? Does this shorten the life of the components involved?

Basically, is just sticking with 4.2Ghz and having some overhead in terms of performance potential better for reliability in the long run?
Click to expand...

I don't go over 4.2 GHZ on my cpu. I don't see the reason to push it as far as it can go when games are getting slaughtered by my rig even at stock speeds.

Also whats the general consensus on how often you should clean out your rig?
 
A

Azulsky

Member
The_Hitcher89 said:
Is Crossfiring just doubling down on GPUs and combining them?

Do they have to be from the same series, ie. 2 x 7950? Can you combine AMD and Nvidia cards?
Click to expand...

No idea on the model mixing on CF. I think they are more open to it than Nvidia. You cannot mix AMD and Nvidia.

Nvidia basically checks the BIOS of each card to see that they are the same model. So you have some weird stuff with custom BIOS flashing to get a gtx680 to a gtx770. Otherwise as long as its the same model(like 670) with the same amount of RAM it works.

Basically card 1 renders all the odd frames and card 2 all the even ones.

7990(AMD) and the x90(Nvidia) series put 2 GPU's on a single PCB. So its SLI in 1/2 the space.

AMD has issues with framestuttering on multi-gpu(Crossfire or 7990) that result from frames not getting equal time on the screen before they are redrawn.

Its a complicated issue but you can read this http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_framepacing_review_with_catalyst_13_8_fcat,1.html

The industry had to come up with that new FCAT tool just to get empirical data on the issue because its undetectable with FRAPS.
 
T

The_Hitcher89

Member
Seanspeed said:
Maybe. But I've heard migrating your OS over is a hassle.
Click to expand...

Damn. Can anyone elaborate pls, its not too late for me to cancel the current SSD

Addnan said:
That's up to you, it is like half the price. It is a little weird that it's so cheap. Could be the wrong item. They have done that before. The no risk I mean is that if it is the wrong item Amazon are easy to deal with.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and even if its a con I imagine Amazon would reimburse me :)

Hmm
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
RSTEIN said:
Overclocking definitely shortens the lifespan of your CPU. In theory, a CPU OC'ed at 4.2ghz would have a longer lifespan than a CPU OC'ed at 4.5ghz. Just like an engine running at higher RPM would have a lower lifespan.

However, for the gaming enthusiast, it's not a problem because components are going to be swapped out (i.e., upgraded) well before the components approach the end of their usefull lives. We're talking about components that are going to last for years, no matter what. I don't have the precise data (mobile at the moment) but maybe someone else has expected lifespan data.

The only risk is if you push the voltage and fry the system. This only becomes an issue beyond 1.30v. But most k chips can get to 4.5ghz no prob at 1.27v or less.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I might wait to overclock til I really need it. Might be soon, but I haven't run into any performance issues with the games I've been playing yet.
 
T

The_Hitcher89

Member
Azulsky said:
No idea on the model mixing on CF. I think they are more open to it than Nvidia. You cannot mix AMD and Nvidia.

Nvidia basically checks the BIOS of each card to see that they are the same model. So you have some weird stuff with custom BIOS flashing to get a gtx680 to a gtx770. Otherwise as long as its the same model(like 670) with the same amount of RAM it works.

Basically card 1 renders all the odd frames and card 2 all the even ones.

7990(AMD) and the x90(Nvidia) series put 2 GPU's on a single PCB. So its SLI in 1/2 the space.

AMD has issues with framestuttering on multi-gpu(Crossfire or 7990) that result from frames not getting equal time on the screen before they are redrawn.

Its a complicated issue but you can read this http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_framepacing_review_with_catalyst_13_8_fcat,1.html

The industry had to come up with that new FCAT tool just to get empirical data on the issue because its undetectable with FRAPS.
Click to expand...

Cheers. The way the frames work sound a bit like the difference between 1080i and 1080p, unless I've completely misunderstood (likely)

:p
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
The_Hitcher89 said:
Damn. Can anyone elaborate pls, its not too late for me to cancel the current SSD
Click to expand...

grkazan12 said:
Thinking about this, is it easy to migrate the Windows 7 OS over to the SSD from HDD?
Click to expand...

Take a look at this for a general idea of whats involved I guess:

http://www.howtogeek.com/97242/how-to-migrate-windows-7-to-a-solid-state-drive/

Avoiding all this and just being secure with a fresh installation definitely played a part in me getting an SSD from Day 1 instead of waiting til later. I'm also not super savvy with this stuff either, though. It might be less daunting for others.
 
G

grkazan12

Member
So a fresh install would be the best option to go with for installing the SSD?, doesn't sound too bad, totally down if that's all that it takes.
 
T

The_Hitcher89

Member
-Install Windows 8 to HDD
-Use PC for nothing but games, saving all save files to the cloud
-SSD arrives
-Uninstall and wipe everything
-Insert SSD
-Fresh install Windows 8 to SSD, pull saves from cloud, use PC properly


Would that work? How easy is it to insert an SSD into an already assembled setup? How many activations do you get with Windows 8? Could I boot it twice from the same Flash Drive?
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
The_Hitcher89 said:
-Install Windows 8 to HDD
-Use PC for nothing but games, saving all save files to the cloud
-SSD arrives
-Uninstall and wipe everything
-Insert SSD
-Fresh install Windows 8 to SSD, pull saves from cloud, use PC properly


Would that work? How easy is it to insert an SSD into an already assembled setup? How many activations do you get with Windows 8? Could I boot it twice from the same Flash Drive?
Click to expand...
Yea, that should be fine.

Installing an SSD will be easy as cake. Lots of cases come with SSD mounting brackets/holes for the drive slots and even if it doesn't, SSD's are easily mountable in other places. You can just duct tape it to the bottom of the case if you needed to!

And you should be able to install Windows again as the license apparently goes by the motherboard, not the drive. I would unplug the HDD while doing the install, just to be absolutely sure it installs to the SSD, since you're going to be in there anyways.
 
A

Azulsky

Member
The_Hitcher89 said:
Cheers. The way the frames work sound a bit like the difference between 1080i and 1080p, unless I've completely misunderstood (likely)

:p
Click to expand...

1080i does interlacing which mean it refreshed all odd lines one cycle then all even the next.

SLI can work a few different ways

AFR(Alternate Frame Rendering) means each card is rendering a alternate full frames, this is what i described in my previous post. Each card is putting out a 1080p frame every other refresh(assuming you use a 1080p monitor)

SFR(Split Frame Rendering) Each card handles 1/2 of every frame. I think the frame is split horizontally.
 
S

Smokey

Member
The_Hitcher89 said:
Is Crossfiring just doubling down on GPUs and combining them?

Do they have to be from the same series, ie. 2 x 7950? Can you combine AMD and Nvidia cards?
Click to expand...

Yes, has to be the same series. Can't Xfire a 7950 and 7970, nor can you mix and match vendors. Your VRAM stays the same as well. So even though you'd have 6GB of VRAM between two 7970s if you cross fired them, you wouldn't have that in game. You'd have 3GB.
 
N

NinjaCatfish

Member
Smokey said:
Yes, has to be the same series. Can't Xfire a 7950 and 7970, nor can you mix and match vendors. Your VRAM stays the same as well. So even though you'd have 6GB of VRAM between two 7970s if you cross fired them, you wouldn't have that in game. You'd have 3GB.
Click to expand...

You sure? Unless something's changed in the last few years it shouldn't be an issue.I crossfired 2 4870s years ago, from different vendors, and they worked fine. They could heat a small family home though.
 
A

Addnan

Member
NinjaCatfish said:
You sure? Unless something's changed in the last few years it shouldn't be an issue.I crossfired 2 4870s years ago, from different vendors, and they worked fine. They could heat a small family home though.
Click to expand...

Think he means Nvidia and AMD can't mix, since the guy was asking if you can mix the two.
 
G

Gaming Truth

Member
Things have been great with my rig up until now and only when I started playing Starcraft II (I've played Civ V and Path of Exile up until now).

When I play Starcraft II, certain cinematic scenes and in-game rendered hubs cause a continuous warning beep from my PC.

With a monitoring tool, my GPU temps go from an idle average of 40C to eh, around 53C, but that doesn't seem so high. I haven't found the right monitoring tool to figure out if my CPU is complaining or if a temp sensor on-board is somehow tripping high. I run 4 fans (back, front, front, top), so I didn't think cooling was the issue.

Also, it could also be a lack of power? Posted below are my specs, but is there even a slight chance I'm just drawing too much at load (which explains why I haven't run into this until now)?

  • CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor
  • CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler
  • Motherboard: MSI Z77 MPOWER ATX LGA1155 Motherboard
  • RAM: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory
  • SSD: Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk
  • There's also a spinner HDD in there, can't remember the specs
  • Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 780 3GB Video Card
  • Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer
  • Case: Cooler Master Storm Scout 2 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case
  • Power Supply: SeaSonic G Series 550-Watt ATX12V/EPS12V 80 PLUS GOLD
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Don't buy a 7990. Crossfire is still wonky.

For the above check your manual for error beep codes, and use Realtemp and OCCT((Medium)) for load testing. You want sub 70C
 
F

Felix Lighter

Member
Gaming Truth said:
Things have been great with my rig up until now and only when I started playing Starcraft II (I've played Civ V and Path of Exile up until now).

When I play Starcraft II, certain cinematic scenes and in-game rendered hubs cause a continuous warning beep from my PC.

With a monitoring tool, my GPU temps go from an idle average of 40C to eh, around 53C, but that doesn't seem so high. I haven't found the right monitoring tool to figure out if my CPU is complaining or if a temp sensor on-board is somehow tripping high. I run 4 fans (back, front, front, top), so I didn't think cooling was the issue.

Also, it could also be a lack of power? Posted below are my specs, but is there even a slight chance I'm just drawing too much at load (which explains why I haven't run into this until now)?

  • CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor
  • CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler
  • Motherboard: MSI Z77 MPOWER ATX LGA1155 Motherboard
  • RAM: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory
  • SSD: Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk
  • There's also a spinner HDD in there, can't remember the specs
  • Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 780 3GB Video Card
  • Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer
  • Case: Cooler Master Storm Scout 2 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case
  • Power Supply: SeaSonic G Series 550-Watt ATX12V/EPS12V 80 PLUS GOLD
Click to expand...


Is the gaming running at a ridiculously high framerate at those times?
 
G

Guri

Member
The build sheet talks about Corsair H60 and H80. Which water cooler is the best in your opinion? (Of course, others can be better too)
 
K

kennah

Member
Depends on your definition of best and what fits in your case. H60 is a great all around. H80 is a little bigger. H100 is amazing but huge. Best of course would be custom loop. But you're looking $400-$600 to do that depending on if you cool your gpu as well.
 
G

Gaming Truth

Member
Felix Lighter said:
Is the gaming running at a ridiculously high framerate at those times?
Click to expand...

Good question: Not sure.

I know I cranked up the graphics settings to Ultra (cause, why not?) on Starcraft II and this happens. I just dropped it down to High and it runs smooth. Still, you would think that going up to Ultra would drop the frame rates, so is it still possibly a draw issue?

I also noticed when playing on High settings, the GPU only went up to 49C and stayed steady.
 
M

Mohasus

Member
SparkTR said:
Is this the guide I want if I'm going to overclock my i5 3570k? Also any tips would be helpful, how hard is it to get 4.2Ghz with an aftermarket air cooler?
Click to expand...

3570k + Asrock Z77 Pro4 + Cooler Master 612 PWM here.

I followed that guide some weeks ago for the Green Overclock (Overclocking with minimum power), working fine @4.4Ghz (1hour of prime running).

If I put it @4.5Ghz, I get a blue screen after 5~10s of the Prime Test. Maybe I could go higher with more voltage, but I'm fine with this.
 
V

valouris

Member
I'm getting an SSD, and I'm between the 840 128 Gb and the 840 Pro same size. (These two are the most affordable in my country for 128 gb and I dont need any more for the SSD, also, the EVO models haven't arrived here yet)

I noticed that the 840 has gotten really bad reviews, contrary to the widely acclaimed 840 Pro.

But.

I have a SATA II motherboard. Will I notice the difference from 840 to the 840 Pro? Is it worth the extra 40 euros? I don't care about data transfer rate as much as I do about latency and snappiness.

What is your verdict PCGAF?
 
A

Akkad

Banned
Before I begin overclocking, are these good temps?

P4FD9wl.jpg
Click to expand...
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
valouris said:
I'm getting an SSD, and I'm between the 840 128 Gb and the 840 Pro same size. (These two are the most affordable in my country for 128 gb and I dont need any more for the SSD, also, the EVO models haven't arrived here yet)

I noticed that the 840 has gotten really bad reviews, contrary to the widely acclaimed 840 Pro.

But.

I have a SATA II motherboard. Will I notice the difference from 840 to the 840 Pro? Is it worth the extra 40 euros? I don't care about data transfer rate as much as I do about latency and snappiness.

What is your verdict PCGAF?
Click to expand...
At 120GB you want the 840 EVO or the 840 Pro or 830 or M4.
Akkad said:
Before I begin overclocking, are these good temps?
Click to expand...
You have a bit of wiggle room, but not that much. I'd stop at about 75C load. What cooler are you running?
 
S

starwarsfan541

Banned
I want to build a computer for my arcade able to run Dolphin, Demul and Supermodel as well as the Mame CHD.

What could run these and not kill me financially (I got a copy of win7)
 
V

Vitanimus

Member
Hazaro said:
At 120GB you want the 840 EVO or the 840 Pro or 830 or M4.

You have a bit of wiggle room, but not that much. I'd stop at about 75C load. What cooler are you running?
Click to expand...

You don't mention the 840, how come? I just bought a very cheap 250GB 840 but if they're not reliable I'd rather not waste my money.
 
R

Raxus

Member
I need help. I have Win 7 ultimate 64 bit installed but no key. I could switch to home premium but I need a key an install disc and 100 bucks.

Is there a cheaper way to get an OS?
 
A

Addnan

Member
Vitanimus said:
You don't mention the 840, how come? I just bought a very cheap 250GB 840 but if they're not reliable I'd rather not waste my money.
Click to expand...

840s are fine, especially at 250. There were early reports that 120GB 840basic are not great, but even that is not completely true. Even the 120GB is good enough.
Raxus said:
I need help. I have Win 7 ultimate 64 bit installed but no key. I could switch to home premium but I need a key an install disc and 100 bucks.

Is there a cheaper way to get an OS?
Click to expand...

Can you find a cheap Windows 8 upgrade key anywhere, maybe ebay or something. The install it on top of an unactivated Windows 7.
 
V

Vitanimus

Member
Addnan said:
840s are fine, especially at 250. There were early reports that 120GB 840basic are not great, but even that is not completely true. Even the 120GB is good enough.
Click to expand...

The reason the 840 is not mentioned specifically is because it is End of Life and being replaced by the EVO.
Click to expand...

Ah I see, thanks! I think my order might actually be cancelled anyway because of how stupidly cheap it was, but if there are no outstanding faults then that's also quite nice. Thank you both.
 
J

JoeMartin

Member
My new/updated/pieced out/shmorgishborg'd system got here today.

First time on an SSD, fresh install.

XgnSeti.png


Sweet jesus have I been missing out. SSD probably the single best upgrade to a system ever.

4770k on NH-D14 OC results to follow...
 
A

Akkad

Banned
Hazaro said:
At 120GB you want the 840 EVO or the 840 Pro or 830 or M4.

You have a bit of wiggle room, but not that much. I'd stop at about 75C load. What cooler are you running?
Click to expand...

212 but the fan was pretty silent when I was running OCCT, could it be that it wasn't running at 100%?
 
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