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Japan DS & PSP SW - LTD
- Thread starter Dalthien
- Start date
Are you sure about the number of games per platform? I'm pretty sure the DS has seen more 3rd party releases so far in Japan.Monorojo said:
Anyways, the difference is further exemplified when one takes into consideration that Tamagotchi accounts for almost 30% of all DS 3rd party sales on it's own.
Actually, no it isn't. The number that I have in the chart (286,287) is right. I remember the chart where you got that number from, but the person who put that chart together had a few of the LTD totals wrong on the chart.Moor-Angol said:
If you look at the Famitsu Chart for the top 100 for the first half of the year, they have this title at 267,512 through June 26/05, with sales of 176,698 from Dec 27/04 - June 26/05. This leaves sales of 90,814 from Dec 16/04 - Dec 26/04. We also know (from 2005 Top 100 chart) that the sales from Dec 27/04 - Dec 25/05 were 195,473. This leaves a LTD total of 286,287. It takes a bit of work to check the numbers because Famitsu's Top 100 chart for 2004 went through Jan 2/05 for some reason, even though the 2005 chart started on Dec 27/04. So the last week of December 2004 is counted twice if you just add the two charts (2004 Top 100 + 2005 Top 100), which is what the poster of the number which you quoted did. Basically, his number adds in the last week of Dec/04 to the total twice. He did that with several of the LTD numbers which he posted on that chart. It was a pain because I had to go through and check each of the numbers to see which ones he messed up like that.
Anyway, the number that I have listed should be the correct number. I may not have explained that very well, so just let me know if you would like me to try to clarify that a little better.
I've completed all of the updates again - so the chart (1st post of this thread) is all caught up once more. As always - big-time thanks go to cvxfreak.
Based on monorojo's and Jarrod's comments recently, I also went ahead and did some 3rd-party calculations from my chart:
DS 3rd-party totals = 4,183,221
PSP 3rd-party totals = 3,965,988
DS 1st-party totals = 15,914,093
PSP 1st-party totals = 1,362,011
The first thing that jumps out at me is that Sony has to be very disappointed that they've only managed to sell a bit more than a million units of 1st-party software in almost 1.5 years on the PSP. And more than 500,000 of those total sales are just from Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee.
Anyway, these numbers confirm monorojo's claims that 3rd-party sales have been pretty much even between the two platforms thus far. But when I break the numbers down further, Jarrod's claims begin to bear fruit.
I split up the 3rd-party sales between the extended launch period, and post launch. The extended launch period runs from launch through until mid-2005, this includes a holiday season, as well as the first half of 2005 (through June/05). The 2nd half of 2005 plus 2006 (Media Create thru Mar 26/06 and Famitsu thru Mar 19/06) is included in the post launch period.
DS 3rd-party launch sales (released through June/05) = 1,201,230
PSP 3rd-party launch sales (released through June/05) = 1,835,679
DS 3rd-party post launch sales (released after June/05) = 2,981,991
PSP 3rd-party post launch sales (released after June/05) = 2,130,309
These numbers clearly confirm Jarrod's point that a huge bulk (nearly half) of PSP's 3rd-party sales occured in the early launch period, and that these 3rd-party sales have not picked up at all post launch. Meanwhile, the DS 3rd-party sales were quite weak during the launch period, but they have picked up quite nicely in the post launch period. Recent momentum definitely seems to favour the DS with respect to 3rd party sales.
A recent troubling trend for the PSP has to be the dramatic drop-off in sales for the sequels to both Metal Gear Acid and Dynasty Warriors. Metal Gear Acid fell from 116,000 (Part 1) to 39,000 (Part 2), and it looks like Part 2 won't get much above 50,000 when all is said and done.
And Dynasty Warriors had an even more precipitous fall from 286,000 (Part 1) to 14,000 (Part 2). These are only 1 week of sales for Part 2, but it will also only end up somewhere around 50,000 when all is said and done. These are two examples of very high profile series which have just taken a nosedive on the PSP. It will be interesting to see if other high profile sequels like Winning Eleven or Ridge Racer will be able to match their predecessor's numbers, or if they will also plummet.
The DS has also had a couple of launch games whose sequels performed far worse than the original (Puyo Pop Fever and Feel the Magic), but neither or these are high-profile series. The only high profile series on the DS to get a sequel was Brain Training, and part 2 of this series should soon catch and even surpass the tremendous sales of part 1.
Based on monorojo's and Jarrod's comments recently, I also went ahead and did some 3rd-party calculations from my chart:
DS 3rd-party totals = 4,183,221
PSP 3rd-party totals = 3,965,988
DS 1st-party totals = 15,914,093
PSP 1st-party totals = 1,362,011
The first thing that jumps out at me is that Sony has to be very disappointed that they've only managed to sell a bit more than a million units of 1st-party software in almost 1.5 years on the PSP. And more than 500,000 of those total sales are just from Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee.
Anyway, these numbers confirm monorojo's claims that 3rd-party sales have been pretty much even between the two platforms thus far. But when I break the numbers down further, Jarrod's claims begin to bear fruit.
I split up the 3rd-party sales between the extended launch period, and post launch. The extended launch period runs from launch through until mid-2005, this includes a holiday season, as well as the first half of 2005 (through June/05). The 2nd half of 2005 plus 2006 (Media Create thru Mar 26/06 and Famitsu thru Mar 19/06) is included in the post launch period.
DS 3rd-party launch sales (released through June/05) = 1,201,230
PSP 3rd-party launch sales (released through June/05) = 1,835,679
DS 3rd-party post launch sales (released after June/05) = 2,981,991
PSP 3rd-party post launch sales (released after June/05) = 2,130,309
These numbers clearly confirm Jarrod's point that a huge bulk (nearly half) of PSP's 3rd-party sales occured in the early launch period, and that these 3rd-party sales have not picked up at all post launch. Meanwhile, the DS 3rd-party sales were quite weak during the launch period, but they have picked up quite nicely in the post launch period. Recent momentum definitely seems to favour the DS with respect to 3rd party sales.
A recent troubling trend for the PSP has to be the dramatic drop-off in sales for the sequels to both Metal Gear Acid and Dynasty Warriors. Metal Gear Acid fell from 116,000 (Part 1) to 39,000 (Part 2), and it looks like Part 2 won't get much above 50,000 when all is said and done.
And Dynasty Warriors had an even more precipitous fall from 286,000 (Part 1) to 14,000 (Part 2). These are only 1 week of sales for Part 2, but it will also only end up somewhere around 50,000 when all is said and done. These are two examples of very high profile series which have just taken a nosedive on the PSP. It will be interesting to see if other high profile sequels like Winning Eleven or Ridge Racer will be able to match their predecessor's numbers, or if they will also plummet.
The DS has also had a couple of launch games whose sequels performed far worse than the original (Puyo Pop Fever and Feel the Magic), but neither or these are high-profile series. The only high profile series on the DS to get a sequel was Brain Training, and part 2 of this series should soon catch and even surpass the tremendous sales of part 1.
So, just adding my 2 cents here, it seems that, in Japan at least, it seems much more fortuitous for developers to make games for the DS than for the PSP both because the DS pushes a slightly larger volume of third party games than the PSP and also because the DS is far less expensive to develop for, in large part because Nintendo has been very successful in establishing a precedent that games on the DS do not nescessarily have to be 3d, or even particularly good 2d. The problem, as has been said before, with the PSP, is that the by far superior hardware of the system also has proven to be the system's Achilles' heel, as developers are having to shell out record sums of cash to develop for a system in a market that traditionally sells fewer amounts of software than the console market. I'm sure the less-than-stellar sales of the PSP have futher pushed 3rd parties away from the system in favor of the cheaper, and much more popular DS.
Hell, even here in America in recent months I've seen a complete reverse of public perception of the DS that NPD numbers fail to account for. I have seen tons of kids (ie, highschool juniors) playing each other in Mario Kart, and recently, Metroid Prime: Hunters. When the subject of handheld games comes up, the perception of the PSP almost always reflects unfulfilled potential while opinions of the DS almost always reflect pleasant surprise.
Hell, even here in America in recent months I've seen a complete reverse of public perception of the DS that NPD numbers fail to account for. I have seen tons of kids (ie, highschool juniors) playing each other in Mario Kart, and recently, Metroid Prime: Hunters. When the subject of handheld games comes up, the perception of the PSP almost always reflects unfulfilled potential while opinions of the DS almost always reflect pleasant surprise.
Drinky Crow
Banned
7 of the top 10 DS products aren't even games
and seriously, nobody plays metroid prime hunters. wtf. quake samus am bomba.
and seriously, nobody plays metroid prime hunters. wtf. quake samus am bomba.
Shaheed79 said:
I didn't check your math for mistakes but it is worth pointing out that all else equal, 3rd party games do sell more on the PSP in proportion to the installed base. The DS 3rd part sales, on average, beats out the PSP by an average of ~20% 66k vs. 52k per title when the DS has already enjoyed a healthy lead in installed base. As it stands, the total market breakdown is now roughly 70% DS 30% PSP.
That said, the the DS is just so dominant now with so many users demanding new software that it would be reasonable for 3rd parties to assume that their DS products will do more business than their PSP products.
For those who somehow find this all surprising or new, it isn't. This is exactly how the Famicom, SuperFami worked in the past. Nintendo plowed their machines into consumer's hands with their first party titles which sells in the millions and make Nintendo billions and the 3rd parties follow in behind with their own offerings. With enough games being made, the law of adverages will tend to dictate that even 3rd parties will start cranking out hits that rival Nintnedo's sales. The DS already has Tamagotchi and there will probably be more.
CajoleJuice
Member
It's quite sad, really. A part of GAF has died.Shalomi said:
Tenacious-V
Thinks his PR is better than yours.
blahhh, what the heck is gaf doing to my browser??!!
Other than that, holy shit DS!!!!!!!
Other than that, holy shit DS!!!!!!!
LiquidMamba
Member
ethelred said:
You also need to factor in the fact that devs usually charge more for games released on the PSP. Since the average sale numbers are still pretty close, we would probably need to know on average how much it cost to develop games on both systems before drawing conclusions.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Could we do an ratings poll?
I know the US/Eur split, but in Japan what games on the PSP/DS are the ratings equivalent of E/T/M/AO?
I know the US/Eur split, but in Japan what games on the PSP/DS are the ratings equivalent of E/T/M/AO?
LiquidMamba said:
The numbers are out there, but if memory serves me right, the average DS game costs about 3-600,000 while the average PSP game is around a million. At any rate, whatever the number is, the higher cost definitely doesn't cover it, at least at first glance.
Also, we need equivalent numbers for the US.
norinrad21
Banned
Drinky Crow said:
Thats alright the PSP is a jack of all trades handheld, it does everything terriblely, very terribelly i might add [voice of benie mack]
Interesting Facts regarding Third Party support:
10 3rd party games on the DS have sold over 100k
13 3rd party games on the PSP have sold over 100k
Nintendo DS has 2x the userbase and is the fad in Japan right now. This PROVES that third party games just don't do that well on a Nintendo system (handheld or console) Unless you're Nintendo, the DS success isn't doing anything for the video game industry except bringing down sales (as if PSP's userbase was higher, third party sales would be higher)
10 3rd party games on the DS have sold over 100k
13 3rd party games on the PSP have sold over 100k
Nintendo DS has 2x the userbase and is the fad in Japan right now. This PROVES that third party games just don't do that well on a Nintendo system (handheld or console) Unless you're Nintendo, the DS success isn't doing anything for the video game industry except bringing down sales (as if PSP's userbase was higher, third party sales would be higher)
Trident said:
Do you really want me to compare the several titles on the GC that did well with the PS2's third party sales?
It's just a fact that since Nintendo 64, the only games that really sell on a Nintendo system are made by Nintendo with few exceptions here and there. Nintendo's success brings one company profit, Nintendo. The rest don't benefit. The industry doesn't benefit.
Tabris said:
Look dude, I could frankly give a shit about Nintendo/PS 3rd party software sales. My problem is that you think some lone, hardly useful or representative statistic can somehow PROVE a generalization. Even if the claim is true, you hardly proved anything with that garbage reasoning.
Tabris said:
So Nintendo entered a magic portal in 1996 that made this happen? You're not making sense other than making ad hoc judgements.
Nintendo first party titles have always been very dominant. When they have a domiant console, everyone share the wealth, including third parties. N64 and GC were not dominant consoles in Japan, but the DS is.
The evidence is already pretty clear that third party sales are doing better than the PSP. Or let me put it this way, PSP third party sales suck, and the if it wasn't for the strong software sales coming out of the gate, the numbers would be even lower as we are currently taking lifetime sales. In the last year or so, third and first party tiles on the DS have pulled way ahead of the PSP. The proof is in this thread and several posters have made far more convincing, and cogent arguments that disprove your theory of Nintendo specific rules of the market.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Tabris said:
You are using the wrong tense. Third party games DID sell better on the PSP... they don't do it nearly as much anymore. So in the spirit of "What have you done for me lately?"
In the past year, how many 100,000+ sellers did each have? (april to april)
PSP 5 (one of which is a non game.)
DS 8 (one of which is a million seller.)
(Oh, and I counted several times, but I could be wrong, but I'm only getting 12 3rd party games for PSP)
A Link to the Past
Banned
PSP third parties have been bombing lately. I can't help but think that PSP's third parties are living on the success of PSP's early years.
When you break it down by fiscal year though...Tabris said:
PSP 2004~ 3
PSP 2005~ 3
DS 2004~ 0
DS 2005~ 4
...again, PSP totals are riding on it's fantatsic launch rush, but since then it's been nothing but a steep decline for software sales. Unlike DS, which is actually climbing.
People trying to bend the numbers to make Nintendo and the DS look better.
"But if you dont include a couple years and only look at this shortperiod of time, DS wins!"
:lol :lol :lol
Like ive said before, lok at the big picture. Enuff of this fanboy stuff, simply admit the truth.
"But if you dont include a couple years and only look at this shortperiod of time, DS wins!"
:lol :lol :lol
Like ive said before, lok at the big picture. Enuff of this fanboy stuff, simply admit the truth.
Newzboyz99
Losers! My wife has me on lock!
Picture I see is DS climbing while PSP is falling.
Moor-Angol
Banned
Drinky Crow said:
9 of the top 10 PSP are porting...
Monorojo said:
That's right, look at the big picture and the simple truth -- in Japan, third party games have sold more on the DS than on the PSP. Period.
Further, PSP's third party sales have been declining, rather than increasing, as its user-base increases.
Simple truths, eh Mono?
The "big picture" would be...
DS= slow launch, unprecedented 2nd year, 2x the userbase of the closest competitior
PSP= amazing launch, dramatic software decline, 3rd party games selling 20% less than the competitor's format on average
... the fact that basically half PSP's software sales came in it's first 4 months is not good, no matter how you slice it. Welcome to 2nd place Sonyfans.
DS= slow launch, unprecedented 2nd year, 2x the userbase of the closest competitior
PSP= amazing launch, dramatic software decline, 3rd party games selling 20% less than the competitor's format on average
... the fact that basically half PSP's software sales came in it's first 4 months is not good, no matter how you slice it. Welcome to 2nd place Sonyfans.
No one here is argueing that PSP isn't second place. (Well I'm not)
I'm argueing that third party games just aren't selling on the DS in relation to the success of the handheld.
You have 7 million sellers on the DS. 1 is third party.
You have 12 500k+ sellers on the DS. 1 is third party.
You have 20 200k+ sellers on the DS. 4 are third party.
Only 1 company is profiting from the DS's success, and that is Nintendo.
I'm argueing that third party games just aren't selling on the DS in relation to the success of the handheld.
You have 7 million sellers on the DS. 1 is third party.
You have 12 500k+ sellers on the DS. 1 is third party.
You have 20 200k+ sellers on the DS. 4 are third party.
Only 1 company is profiting from the DS's success, and that is Nintendo.
Ratio arguments almost always favor smaller bases though... the larger and more casual your base expands, the less it tends to get that "hardcore" bump that smaller, more focused bases tend to enjoy. Using the same logic, one could argue Xbox as a superior platform for 3rd party games (as they tend to have a higher userbase penetration than the same games on PS2/PC//GC).Tabris said:
And really, publishers like SEGA, Namco Bandai, Konami, Square Enix, MMV, Tomy, Banpresto and others have seen very healthy DS sales. If Nintendo's going to be your golden standard, well... then no, no other companies are "profiting" on DS by comparison. But then no companies at all are "profiting" on PSP at all either.
BUT THAT MAKES NO SENSE!Tabris said:
Tabris, you have no proof at all of what you are saying. Have any game companies come out and said The success of the DS has hurt our bottom line. No? Then stop it.
The successes of a product in a market can ONLY help all those involved in it. Third parties in Japan are now (not months and months ago, NOW) getting better sales on the DS then the PSP. DS games are MUCH cheaper to develop then PSP games. Cheaper development and higher sales = more profit. Why would game companies be happier if the PSP did better then the DS? That would mean they all would have to spend much more money developing advanced 3D games to compete with other advanced 3D games, while as it is they can spend little to develop simpler games that have the chance to sell to a higher user base on a system that is an unparalleled success. Why wouldn't they prefer that?
Magicpaint
Member
Matt said:
QFT.
Tabris is a known DS troll anyway, so can't expect him to sing praises to the DS' success. But if it helps him sleep at night "knowing" that only Nintendo profits from the DS, then more power to him?:lol
Tabris said:
User-base does not matter. If 10 people buy a game on the PSP but 30 buy a game on the DS, the publishers aren't going to care that a smalle rpercentage of PSP owners passed on their game than a percentage of DS owners. They care about how well the game sold versus all the associated costs (production costs, development costs, royalty fees, distribution, marketing).
And your argument in no way proves that no one is profiting on the DS except Nintendo. It just proves that Nintendo is profiting the most. Other companies, however, are getting games on the DS that are both selling well and securing profits for them.
There's a very big difference, one you seem incapable of grasping.
Matt said:
Tabris believes that only a few types of games should be made. And Tabris believes that developers should only have one console on which to make these few types of games.
For Tabris, the fewer choices consumers and developers have, the better!
Tabris thinks that developers should be screaming for the death of the DS so that they have only one option in the handheld arena (PSP) and only one option in the home arena (PS3). That way every developer will be completely subservient to the whims of Sony, as will we consumers.
It's impossible for him to fathom a scenario in which more diverse games equals greater choice in gaming and a healthier gaming industry as a whole as new genres of games bring in new gamers who then contribute to the success of more traditional gaming, as their new-gaming-dollars (and yen) contribute to the developers' ability to make more of all types of games.
And to counter that unfathomable scenario, he has to resort to fictitious arguments full of spin and supposition. It's first class trolling.