Support NeoGAF

[ProtoByte]

They didn't get that "wrong" they knew that from the beginning. Early dev interviews said they took a little liberty with the timelines for the armors and weaponry to be the most recognizable of what we romanticize today, but passed that through the guidance of Japanese historians and scholars first.

Yes, big difference between intentionally taking creative liberties, as with Sucker Punch, and actively disrespecting the culture and demonstrating incompetence and ignorance with every step as we see from Ubisoft.

If we're going to speculate intentionality, why not examine the discussion around this game in particular? We weren't having a thread every other week in the 8 months leading up to Ghost's release replete with YouTube videos with 10s or 100s of thousands of views nitpicking geometries and clips of Asmongold's reactions thereof. Why? Because Ghost didn't have a black dude in samurai armor.

I highly doubt that Sucker Punch as was religiously exhaustive about literally everything they did as people make it seem. They're an expensive to run Washington studio who had just come off of a cancelation of a previous product, and banged out Ghost in less than 4 years.

I will critique Ubisoft all the live long day, but no one's going to convince me that they don't put effort into AC worlds. It's not like anybody is looking at AC Shadows and coming away surprised that it's set in feudal Japan. The sticking point is Yasuke and his "cultural appropriation".

To be clear, even I think that Yasuke's inclusion is very 2024 of Ubisoft - ie, if they did Japan 5 or 10 years ago, I do not believe that he would be a playable costar. The reaction to this game is a direct result of 10 years of mounting game industry slacktivism. That doesn't make the reaction entirely correct or justified.

 

[Azure Crystal Gaming]

Can you imagine a white lead killing black people in assasins creed africa ? LoL... the guy that piches that in Ubi is banned from the industry in the next day ... and people want to question japanese trying to call attention for their culture disrespect.

.

 

[EviLore]

If we're going to speculate intentionality, why not examine the discussion around this game in particular? We weren't having a thread every other week in the 8 months leading up to Ghost's release replete with YouTube videos with 10s or 100s of thousands of views nitpicking geometries and clips of Asmongold's reactions thereof. Why? Because Ghost didn't have a black dude in samurai armor.

I highly doubt that Sucker Punch as was religiously exhaustive about literally everything they did as people make it seem. They're an expensive to run Washington studio who had just come off of a cancelation of a previous product, and banged out Ghost in less than 4 years.

I will critique Ubisoft all the live long day, but no one's going to convince me that they don't put effort into AC worlds. It's not like anybody is looking at AC Shadows and coming away surprised that it's set in feudal Japan.

To be clear, even I think that Yasuke's inclusion is very 2024 of Ubisoft - ie, if they did Japan 5 or 10 years ago, I do not believe that he would be a playable costar. The reaction to this game is a direct result of 10 years of mounting game industry slacktivism. That doesn't make the reaction entirely correct or justified.

Why bother taking anything you say seriously when you open with the claim that anyone who cares is a closet racist?

 

[jason10mm]

I can't recall a game where I was bothered by its historical correctness.

I feel like a lot of the other AC games deal with eras that have very little current relevance. Ain't many dressing like Vikings, Greeks, renaissance Italians, or colonial era pirates. But Japan...those folks have a reverence for their cultural legacy the West can't really understand, which is the crux of the issue with AC:Shadows. I mean, listen to the people OF THAT COUNTRY, amiright?

 

[ProtoByte]

Why bother taking anything you say seriously when you open with the claim that anyone who cares is a closet racist?

Because I didn't say that? Read the last paragraph of my post.

I said that the focus of minute details, particularly by casual western observers who are not even amateurs, let alone experts of Japanese history, have been sensitized by and is used to dress up the leading critique people have - that being Yasuke. My evidence for that is the fact that nobody cared to talk about the historical inaccuracies in culture, architecture, language, textiles or a host of other things as it pertained to previous AC games.

I'm saying that all of the arguments usually mocked by the anti-woke side of things has now been adopted for this particular case.

I would say that these points are undeniable. It's not to say that everyone who rolls their eyes at the game, or even more actively jumps on the bandwagon is a racist. That said, there are racists in that bandwagon, and you can tell because they aren't very closeted about it. Lmao.

Basically, it's not worth all the hullabaloo, and the attitude around this is inconsistent. Buy the game or don't, and do it specifically on the basis of Yasuke if you like. But let's not pretend this is about the lack of respeckin' Japanese culture, unless you believe that the fictionalized inclusion of Yasuke is such a mark against the purity of Japanese lore.

This is not an argument on behalf of Lockley's actual historical revisionism. But frankly, if not for AC Shadows, it probably would've flown under the radar for the foreseeable future. That's how much this entire thing hinges on current culture war dynamics.

 

[jason10mm]

Can you imagine a white lead killing black people in assasins creed africa ? LoL... the guy that piches that in Ubi is banned from the industry in the next day ... and people want to question japanese trying to call attention for their culture disrespect.

You jest but a King Solomon's Mines type AC game with Allan Quartermain, Tarzan, and other characters from victorian era African colonialism WOULD BE AWESOME!

Yeah, gotta walk the cultural line a bit, maybe have Shaka Zulu as your mentor character, but I think you could really use the english literary characters to inform the audience about actual history quite well. Imagine Leopold II as a boss to assasinate with his treatment of the Belgian colony....could be amazing, leading to some 'lost' civilizations and lots of other stuff.

 

[EDMIX]

We weren't having a thread every other week in the 8 months leading up to Ghost's release replete with YouTube videos with 10s or 100s of thousands of views nitpicking geometries and clips of Asmongold's reactions thereof. Why? Because Ghost didn't have a black dude in samurai armor.

I mean, if we want to be even more exact, Ronin came out this year and we didn't have many threads looking into every last element of the game like this. So I find when such videos come out, it hard for me to believe its a genuine thing, its not saying someone can't really have this view honestly, merely that it seems to be suspiciously absent regarding other games that released in the Japan setting, even ones that literally just released a few months ago.

If they cared about accuracy so much regarding this setting , where is their video on Ronin that came out in March?

Why bother taking anything you say seriously when you open with the claim that anyone who cares is a closet racist?

I wouldn't go as far as to say anyone who cares is a racist. As a Haitian American (black for those who didn't know) I wouldn't go as far as to say anyone who cares is racist cause I've seen my fair share of that and I can't say this is solely due to that, I'm sure some are that are jumping on this as some bandwagon thing or something, but I think a lot might be talking about this more then normal because its Ubisoft.

We had Ronin release in March, we do not have a video by this person talking about those elements and this is a game set in Japan too during a similar time frame.

So I'm sure someone can really care about those elements in a game, but when its isolated like this, measured with things we've not seen used before to rate or judge other titles, I have to question why the extra attention is being given to this game in general.

When someone is judging a game this wildly based on like flower sizes, it starts to be a criticism about the entire industry not doing this vs AC Shadows, cause what game is even doing what they are talking about as if anything stated in the video was ever a common thing in a video game?

I feel like a lot of the other AC games deal with eras that have very little current relevance. Ain't many dressing like Vikings, Greeks, renaissance Italians, or colonial era pirates. But Japan...those folks have a reverence for their cultural legacy the West can't really understand, which is the crux of the issue with AC:Shadows. I mean, listen to the people OF THAT COUNTRY, amiright?

I'm sure someone does in Japan, but I'm also sure someone did have an issue with Vikings stuff in Valhalla or even Egyptian culture or something. It depends on who you ask tbh. Look at Far Cry 5, we had many here in the west that tried to make a big deal out of that game, it ended becoming the best selling Far Cry in history.

I'm not saying someone doesn't really care about this that Japanese, simply that its a moot point. You can find anyone, from any country that doesn't want anything to be in a game or something. If you or I made a game about our countries, I'm sure many would disagree within our own country about the elements put in the game, regardless, I'd side with the artist to create what they want.

Japan didn't make much of a deal about Nioh and Yasuke is literally in that...

You jest but a King Solomon's Mines type AC game with Allan Quartermain, Tarzan, and other characters from victorian era African colonialism WOULD BE AWESOME!

Yeah, gotta walk the cultural line a bit, maybe have Shaka Zulu as your mentor character, but I think you could really use the english literary characters to inform the audience about actual history quite well. Imagine Leopold II as a boss to assasinate with his treatment of the Belgian colony....could be amazing, leading to some 'lost' civilizations and lots of other stuff.

I would actually love that. an AC Africa sounds amazing regardless.

To Bernardougf point, I wouldn't be offended remotely. I care about context and loved RE5 for what it was just like I like AC IV, I never looked at it like "OMG I'm Haitian and this person who is Welsh is KILLING US" or anything wild like that, I understand its fake, its a game, if they can explain HOW he gets to Africa (consider its occupation over the hundreds of years) then I'm fine with it.

The act of it happening is not an offense to me, please understand that context matters and its not like I was up in arms about people who look like me getting killed by the clan in RDR2 or something, its video game set in a time frame where that happened.

So from the perspective of someone who is a black male, I'm telling you those things do not offend me as I'm aware I'm playing a game. I need context and real evidence that the intent was to harm or something.

 

[Doom85]

I mean, thats even worse, it means they were aware of this and still added all of those inaccuracies like the weapons, bombs, entire building types that wouldn't exist for hundreds of years etc So if they knew this didn't make sense and still added it to the game, it means the Japanese don't really care as much about some of this as many on here keep trying to exaggerate.

I don't recall anyone doing this with Ghost Of Tsushima or Ronin (or really any other game in some time period for that matter) , so I don't 100% buy the concern over Assassin's Creed Shadows. I bought Ghost and still enjoyed it even with it not being some 1.1 carbon copy of Japan, I'll do the same with Ghost Of Osaka : Yukimura's Revenge and I'll do the same with AC Shadows.

We know exactly why the concern is only conveniently popping up now for this game over those others for certain Youtubers and such. Ubisoft's flip-flopping in their statement about the game's historical accuracy (ignoring the fact this series has objectively always been historical fiction and Ubisoft's statements don't change that one way or the other, no more than Nintendo making that statement years ago that Paper Mario was an adventure series despite the first two games clearly being RPGs) was just the excuse some of them needed to use as a defense shield so they could go insane about this game, and pretend Yasuke is someone the Japanese never gave a shit about and Ubisoft is forcing this out of nowhere, but one quick glance at Wikipedia and all the depictions of Yasuke from JAPANESE video games and such shows what a fantasy world these pretenders are living in.

And when people then start to focus on other issues in the depiction of Japan in the game in terms of accuracy, well here's the obvious question: what the fuck does that have to do with Yasuke being in the game? If a building layout is way off, Yasuke being the playable character or not would not impact that in any way. As per usual, it's blatant goalpost moving as expected from these YouTube ragebait grifters and their parrots. They don't focus on the other playable character or even acknowledge her existence, and when called out on that, then suddenly they're bemoaning Asian male depiction in western media (and conveniently choose their words carefully. If they claimed that Japanese or Chinese males in media in general, they would obviously be full of shit given the massive amount of video games, anime, films, etc. with such male leads, but they conveniently say ASIAN males in WESTERN media…..while many of these same grifters will mock or belittle black, Hispanic, LGBT, etc. people for wanting representation and fail to notice such a double standard on their part). They act dismissive of any Japanese who disagree with them and claim that everyone is "stereotyping all of Japanese opinions by focusing of them" despite that in of itself stereotyping the opinions of everyone who agrees with those particular Japanese, so, you know, pot meet kettle.

This is why YouTuber grifters are so clever and often hide their more toxic and discriminating opinions among other details that seem more reasonable at first glance, thus allowing the illusory truth effect take over over time AKA "allowing the pill to go down easier". Take The Critical Drinker's review of The Batman. Most of it doesn't seem too extreme even if you don't agree with his opinions or not, but then suddenly he's bringing up that "it sure is convenient The Riddler is only targeting corrupt rich white men as his targets." Yeeeeaaaah:

1) the Riddler targets rich people AND the police and ultimately tries to kill a ton of people indiscriminately
2) the rich white men in this movie include Bruce and Thomas Wayne who are both portrayed as flawed but ultimately sympathetic people
3) the mayor is also targeted by The Riddler, and she is a black woman
4) statistics shows that rich men in the US largely tend to be white. So hilariously, Drinker is ASKING FOR DIVERSITY, but only wants it for the corrupt assholes in the film, hmm…….
5) Drinker even says outside of Catwoman's one line, the film isn't about race at all….yet he still brought up the rich white men detail. I would say he lives up to the Drinker part of his name, but that would be insulting……to drunks!

It's him, and people with intentions like him, who throw in those little bits, often being objectively false such as this Batman example, around more reasonable observations and criticisms so people will fall for the illusory effect over time and believe what should have been obvious lies and manipulation. It's pretty unsettling how effective it is honestly.

What's funny is that these YouTube grifters try to act all high and mighty and go, "oh, sure, accuse of racism or such!", yet as we've seen, they are quick to make racist accusations when it fits THEIR narrative. Once again, POT MEET KETTLE. And yeah, of course over time anyone reasonable would question if they aren't racist or such over time. As my above example shows, how can someone claim a movie isn't about race…..and then proceed to make it about race anyway and in a dishonest way all to push a narrative.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Resident Evil 5?

But there's also a black lead killing black people in Resi 5 ?
(with Joshua being a co-lead also killing black people).

Also : IIRC, Capcom had already added other zombie races® during production as to avoid hullabaloo - something which didn't really prove to be helpful since some people still screeched "RaCIsM !!1!" even back in the day (the obese black "journalist" from giant bomb IIRC).
I still remember laughing at all those Asian and middle-eastern looking zombies® that the game featured (for all the obvious reasons).

Fuck me if RE5 Remake isn't going to be an impossible project for Capcom due to the current climate - unless of course they race swap all the black zombies with white dudes and/or raise the number of the Asian and middle-eastern looking ones... always in a game set in Africa.

 

[Doom85]

But there's also a black lead killing black people in Resi 5 ?

Isn't there also a Japanese lead killing Japanese people in Assassin's Creed: Shadows?

 

[EviLore]

I would say that these points are undeniable.

No doubt everything you believe is undeniable from your own perspective.

The fact that Ubisoft used Chinese architecture in Japan, marketed in Japan with Chinese subtitles, doesn't know how rice works, recreated sacred religious relics that aren't supposed to be depicted without permission, etc. etc., are valid criticisms underscoring the particular sentiment of disdain toward Japanese culture on display from Ubisoft.

Is it the first time for Ubi? No. AC: Odyssey turned important figures from antiquity into cartoon characters. Valhalla preferred to revise away any uncomfortable truths about the Vikings rather than tackle them properly, and claimed historical accuracy to boot. And we discussed it those times, too.

 

[Azure Crystal Gaming]

But there's also a black lead killing black people in Resi 5 ?
(with Joshua being a co-lead also killing black people).

Also : IIRC, Capcom had already added other zombie races® during production as to avoid hullabaloo - something which didn't really prove to be helpful since some people still screeched "RaCIsM !!1!" even back in the day (the obese black "journalist" from giant bomb IIRC).
I still remember laughing at all those Asian and middle-eastern looking zombies® that the game featured (for all the obvious reason).

Fuck me if RE5 Remake isn't going to be an impossible project for Capcom due to the current climate - unless of course they race swap all the black zombies with white dudes and/or raise the number of the Asian and middle-eastern looking ones... always in a game set in Africa.

.

 

[Kacho]

(the obese black "journalist" from giant bomb IIRC)

N'Gai Croal brah. It was on GameTrailers.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

N'Gai Croal brah. It was on GameTrailers.

Was it him ? I somehow remember him being that Austin guy from GB - it's been years though so I must be misremembering things probably.

Edit: I looked it up, you're right

Croal lays into "racist" Resident Evil 5

Newsweek's games writer, N'Gai Croal, has expressed his concerns over the imagery depicted in the trailer for Capcom's …

www.gamesindustry.biz

Edit 2 : Neogaf's own thread about it :

N'Gai Croal - RE5 Trailer Imagery is Racist

Earlier this week GamePolitics covered the opening installments of MTV Multiplayers multipart feature on Black Professionals in Games. And while Newsweeks popular video game writer NGai Croal was the focus of the series opening article, MTV Multiplayer decided to devote a second...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Fake]

We are seeing in real life one of the side effects of toxic positivity right here.

Even Angry Joe admit this is kinda nuts. Everytime some discussion have negativity aspect some folks keep using this mentality of 'must be racist'. Liberals did their job of making every discussion impossible.

I can't even imagine being at the workplace with Ubisoft devs. Must be a living nightmare.

 

[Kacho]

Was it him ? I somehow remember him being that Austin guy from GB - it's been years though so I must be misremembering things probably.

Austin came much later and ended up being a less interesting version of N'Gai Croal. Austin tried talking some bullshit about colonialism in Monster Hunter, but that was his peak before getting laid off. No clue what either are doing at this point.

 

[Doom85]

They only included Sheva to cover their asses. She as much admits this in what feels a meta way right when you meet her "That's why I'm your partner, help put them at ease."

That's how you took that line?

A classic trope is the police or such not liking it when an outsider, usually an FBI agent, comes in and they have to work it together and such (like, Twin Peaks wastes no time addressing this, and thankfully averting it as whether it's realistic or not I've grown tired of the trope).

Chris is a foreign agent and as such Sheva working with him would put some of her associates at ease because she can report to them and thus they're not in the dark about Chris' activity as they would be if Chris was working alone (since for all they know Chris might bullshit them about some of his activity even if we, the player, know he wouldn't do that, whereas Sheva obviously they fully trust so she can be counted on to give an honest report).

 

[StereoVsn]

What makes AC so unique compared to other games is that their worlds are historical to the point that's it's just believable, like you're actually there. I've been to Rome and Paris, and AC nailed the historical theme of that game and revisiting those landmarks through the game was like a virtual tour of it's a actual history. It goes to show the appreciation the developers had for the history despite the technological limitations and limited historic sources to build it with.

This key attention to detail was clearly not applied for this particular game. It's was designed to exploit a culture for profit. They're not asking for a 1:1 recreation, just the same effort that was applied in the original AC games to be done here.

Yep, AC games, especially starting with Unity had a lot of historical aspects and kept general architecture, and even city layouts somewhat authentic.

This game in particular for some reason just seems off and I am not talking about main characters here.

Edit: Unrelated side note, but I just can't watch the Asmongold dude. The presentation, voice, or something just annoys the f out of me, lol.

 

[EviLore]

Yep, AC games, especially starting with Unity had a lot of historical aspects and kept general architecture, and even city layouts somewhat authentic.

This game in particular for some reason just seems off and I am not talking about main characters here.

AC Unity was used as an official reference by the French government to accurately rebuild the Notre Dame Cathedral after the fire.

 

[StereoVsn]

AC Unity was used as an official reference by the French government to accurately rebuild the Notre Dame Cathedral after the fire.

Oh wow, going to have to read about that as it's pretty awesome.

I really wish Ubi would do a proper Unity remake or at least a proper remaster. While the game had issues, it was ahead of its time in many aspects.

 

[ProtoByte]

No doubt everything you believe is undeniable from your own perspective.

The fact that Ubisoft used Chinese architecture in Japan, marketed in Japan with Chinese subtitles, doesn't know how rice works, recreated sacred religious relics that aren't supposed to be depicted without permission, etc. etc., are valid criticisms underscoring the particular sentiment of disdain toward Japanese culture on display from Ubisoft.

Is it the first time for Ubi? No. AC: Odyssey turned important figures from antiquity into cartoon characters. Valhalla preferred to revise away any uncomfortable truths about the Vikings rather than tackle them properly, and claimed historical accuracy to boot. And we discussed it those times, too.

Do you think this is disdain, or the result of the Ubisoft conveyer belt?

 

[Stu_Hart]

You guys still arguing about this? I really want to buy this game even though I am not a fan of AC just to see the drama and armchair historians. Thanks for selling me the game.

 

[Fake]

'I don't want to be a part of discussion.'

'Discuss anyway.'

Friendly reminder that there is a ignore thread button. Just use it instead of making bait posts and trying to be big brain.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

I can't recall a single AC game being historically accurate, but it's the first time it seems to have bothered people.

I can't understand anything stupider than historically checking a game.

 

[Fess]

We so wanted a Japanese setting. but not like this -_-

Without these videos most in the west wouldn't know how bad it was. It's going to be much worse for those living in Japan. Then you'd be reminded of the flaws all the time when they're so obvious, from your perspective, and in your face. It's going to be similar to how nordic region people had that endure that constant Valhalla awkwardness of having a bearded macho guy walking around thinking he's cool while having an old lady's name. Luckily you could play as the female character instead there. Here it'll be difficult to dodge the obvious research flaws. And you have to use both the ninja and samurai here, right? Can't dodge the Yasuke blunders even if you want to?

 

[EDMIX]

Without these videos most in the west wouldn't know how bad it was.

Well "bad" is a matter of perspective, I feel fake concern about some flower being a different size or how many fishes is on a castle no matter how accurate or inaccurate it is is not gonna get most people to really determine the purchase of a video game to then see the difference as "bad" as some logical reason to not purchase the game....

It's going to be much worse for those living in Japan.

They managed to live through Nioh, Ronin, the inaccuracies in Ghost Of Tsushima and so many other games I think they will manage. They literally have Hentai and Romance Anime and Manga where Nobunaga is doing all sorts of shit, some times a girl, some times some teen sent to the future and must find his true love lol

I don't think some of you get that Japan as a majority seem not to care about a lot of this to the degree some of you are exaggerating, this is fucking tame compared to the shit Japan themselves do with those historical figures.

So they are fully aware of fictional things, they are aware of historical fiction things, like....a lot.

Then you'd be reminded of the flaws all the time when they're so obvious,

We're talking about flower sizes and the perceived layout of some farmland or something but when the fuck have you ever heard this as a bullet point in a video game like someone specifically buying Ronin because of the size of a fucking cherry blossom relevant to a bird ? Lol

This simply does not sound like a genuine flaw that the majority who buy video games look into , I've never heard anyone say they're buying a video game based on the size of a flower based on its reference in real life

Rise Of The Ronin doesn't do this, Ghost Of Tsushima doesn't, neither does Yakuza Ishin or Kenzan , So if it's closest competitors don't do this I'm trying to figure out why would anyone think this would be a "flaw" if a lot of this wasn't even some standard normal thing in the first place....

Because if these are "flaws" to you no games could technically pass this bazaar standard that you're talking about then lol Some of the things in the video that's talked about is just wildly exaggerative. So if you're looking for something that's deeply accurate or something in your perspective you see that as a flaw that's completely fine but please don't try to force this idea on the majority as if people are all genuinely buying video games for the reasons inside of that video.


I don't know if I've ever seen anything in that video listed on a box as a bullet point to buy something like Rise Of Ronin lol

I don't recall any outrage over any of this shit btw lol Japan survived all of that, I'm sure they will live with the wild horror that is inaccurately sized flowers relative to bird (i'm shocked I didn't see it on the news yet tbh) jk jk lol

lolz

 

[Kamina]

If anything, the video made me wonder more about the technical state the game is in rather than historical inaccuracies.
- Swords clipping through hands and sheaths
- Projectiles suspended in midair
- Floating doors
- Clipping characters
All in a trailer that is supposed to show off the best of the game.

 

[EDMIX]

If anything, the video made me wonder more about the technical state the game is in rather than historical inaccuracies.
- Swords clipping through hands and sheaths
- Projectiles suspended in midair
- Floating doors
- Clipping characters
All in a trailer that is supposed to show off the best of the game.

This.

That should have been the focus of the video as that is something that any gamer can understand.

I'm buying the game day 1, but more of a focus on that is what would get me to consider my preorder, not this weird hyperbolic thing about the layout of some farmland or something weird like this.

 

[EviLore]

I don't think some of you get that Japan as a majority seem not to care about a lot of this to the degree some of you are exaggerating

Here's a random AC Shadows video published by IGN Japan for the Japanese audience. Japanese comments translated to English.

 

[EDMIX]

Here's a random AC Shadows video published by IGN Japan for the Japanese audience. Japanese comments translated to English.

I still don't buy that is the majority.

I'm sure lots of games like this might have some that are upset at a game existing or something, but those same might be mad at all those historical fiction manga and anime that put some figure as a teen or as a girl or something wacky like that lol

The reality is, Japan themselves have tons of content about historical figures putting them in all sorts of crazy situations, I'm sure some from Japan genuinely are upset about that type of stuff, I'm also aware the majority may not care either

So for all you know, those same 7.8k hate this ^

Yet....Japan lives on.

Like I've said before, a lot of this is literally tame compared to what Japan does to their own history in regards to fiction. So I believe those 7k really are upset over AC Shadows, but they likely were upset over Ronin, Yakuza series, Onimusha and many more.

 

[Fess]

I feel fake concern

Of course you do, was expected with that laugh emoji, easy way to know it's not worth having a conversation. Maybe if you look at the likes/dislikes ratio you would understand that it's legit disappointment. But keep on laughing at my posts while stuttering about the flower size as if that's all it boils down to.

some flower being a different size

flower sizes

size of a flower

inaccurately sized flowers

 

[kiphalfton]

Yes, the leads at Sucker Punch were honored as permanent official ambassadors of the island of Tsushima.

Meanwhile "Ubisoft, you have brought much dishonor to yourselves, and all your staff have been banned from coming to our country".

 

[EDMIX]

Of course you do, was expected with that laugh emoji,

That just makes me want to do the laugh emoji more Fess lol No lie though, this did make me laugh and out loud

Maybe if you look at the likes/dislikes ratio you would understand that it's legit disappointment

I don't care.

I've never bought games for those reasons. Anyone is free to dislike something, their "disappointment" is irrelevant to me if its something odd like how a farmland is laid out or flower sizes or fish on a castle etc Thats......thats odd and sure, if they are disappointed, they are free to be.

That being said, I don't buy games based on that. Its even more weird you think that would be relevant to the majority. I mean, I'm going to play the game and be reminded about the "flaw" on the castle that it shouldn't have 5 fishes but 2, I mean...I'll try to enjoy it, I don't know if I can survive this type of horror tbh. /s

lol I care more about any issue with the actual game itself then like 99.9% of what was in that video. I don't even care about that in the games I buy RIGHT NOW, like Rise Of Ronin, I just don't care man.

Is the game fun? Does it work as intend? Thats what I care about Fess.. So yea, I find the overaction, exaggeration and like fake concern more funny then anything genuine.


If some one was saddened by this, they'd have a heart attack a few minutes in to a Yakuza game lol

Let me remind you...this is ok with most of Japan and I'm sure you'll have lots "SHOCKED" at it, but....they'll be shocked at everything like this tbh

 

[EviLore]

I don't care.

Okay. Japanese people obviously care. Should that not matter? It always matters when other cultures and ethnicities react strongly in unison that they're being disrespected. But not in this case, because you don't care to understand the culture?

 

[EDMIX]

Okay. Japanese people obviously care. Should that not matter? It always matters when other cultures and ethnicities react strongly in unison that they're being disrespected. But not in this case, because you don't care to understand the culture?

Like I said, I'm sure some in Japan care and they are free to care. Simply that this is a video game, we've seen content from Japan themselves that not only make light of their own history, go well beyond anything that AC Shadows is doing, this tells me some in Japan care about this, some in Japan don't.

So I understand that Japan fully gets historical fiction, as I'm sure even the historical fiction they put out themselves will have some level of disrespect or out rage or something. So I support the idea of a something being able to be made regardless of how someone else feels about it, because almost nothing would be able to be made if everything needs to be stopped that offends someone.

So Japan is free to feel this way, but they feel this way about a lot of Anime, manga and games made directly from Japan.

You can't please everyone

 

[Kurotri]

AC Unity was used as an official reference by the French government to accurately rebuild the Notre Dame Cathedral after the fire.

Felt the need to correct you there, boss.

Assassin's Creed creators pledge €500,000 to Notre Dame

Ubisoft Montréal, which built a huge-scale virtual cathedral for its game Assassin’s Creed Unity, will donate to restoration efforts

www.theguardian.com

Can 'Assassin’s Creed' Help Rebuild Notre Dame? How Restoring the Cathedral Will Require Both New and Ancient Technology

In the wake of the devastating fire at Notre Dame, experts around the world are looking to old and new technologies to aid reconstruction.

news.artnet.com

They only donated 500k dollars and offered to help any way they can, but the in-game model was deemed insufficient largely because of some artistic liberties that were taken.

 

[Cao Cao]

 

[EviLore]

Felt the need to correct you there, boss.

Assassin's Creed creators pledge €500,000 to Notre Dame

Ubisoft Montréal, which built a huge-scale virtual cathedral for its game Assassin’s Creed Unity, will donate to restoration efforts

www.theguardian.com

Can 'Assassin’s Creed' Help Rebuild Notre Dame? How Restoring the Cathedral Will Require Both New and Ancient Technology

In the wake of the devastating fire at Notre Dame, experts around the world are looking to old and new technologies to aid reconstruction.

news.artnet.com

They only donated 500k dollars and offered to help any way they can, but the in-game model was deemed insufficient largely because of some artistic liberties that were taken.

Thanks, didn't know about the follow up.

 

[EDMIX]

Felt the need to correct you there, boss.

Assassin's Creed creators pledge €500,000 to Notre Dame

Ubisoft Montréal, which built a huge-scale virtual cathedral for its game Assassin’s Creed Unity, will donate to restoration efforts

www.theguardian.com

Can 'Assassin’s Creed' Help Rebuild Notre Dame? How Restoring the Cathedral Will Require Both New and Ancient Technology

In the wake of the devastating fire at Notre Dame, experts around the world are looking to old and new technologies to aid reconstruction.

news.artnet.com

They only donated 500k dollars and offered to help any way they can, but the in-game model was deemed insufficient largely because of some artistic liberties that were taken.

So, like they tried to help and gave them the in game model, but it was turned down then.

That makes sense as I'm sure the model included stuff like where the character climbs and altered in size, dimensions etc. I don't do anything this as an artist lol, but I do know a few that do and lots of stuff has to be changed sometimes to fit some code type thing.

I guess the point is that it was very accurate that it could have been refenced which imho is still pretty good.

edit, I don't know if we are at the stage in gaming yet where like a whole ass building can be scanned or replicated perfectly lol I'd expect Sony, Ubisoft or Rockstar to attempt though

 

[Senua]

Like I said, I'm sure some in Japan care and they are free to care. Simply that this is a video game, we've seen content from Japan themselves that not only make light of their own history, go well beyond anything that AC Shadows is doing, this tells me some in Japan care about this, some in Japan don't.

So I understand that Japan fully gets historical fiction, as I'm sure even the historical fiction they put out themselves will have some level of disrespect or out rage or something. So I support the idea of a something being able to be made regardless of how someone else feels about it, because almost nothing would be able to be made if everything needs to be stopped that offends someone.

So Japan is free to feel this way, but they feel this way about a lot of Anime, manga and games made directly from Japan.

You can't please everyone

Why are you an apologist in all these controversial threads lol. Is it just defending devs for the sake of it?

 

[EDMIX]

Why are you an apologist in all these controversial threads lol. Is it just defending devs for the sake of it?

errr not really, I think you seem to just assume that cause I don't jump to the whole offend thing instantly.

I also don't get this whole thing of claiming someone is "defending" something cause they are not outraged too or something.

I'm not "outraged" over most things tbh

I need to lose money, time, corrupt save or something to be mad lol


Edit. Look at Cyberpunk, I was hype like a lot of you, got it day 1 annnnnnnnd triggered lol

I think some are just mad cause I don't really run with the whole "this is the popular thing to hate, hate it too", I simply need to see more to justify any of this, if this is not something I measured a game by before, I rarely try to forcefully use it against another game or something.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I mean, thats even worse, it means they were aware of this and still added all of those inaccuracies like the weapons, bombs, entire building types that wouldn't exist for hundreds of years etc So if they knew this didn't make sense and still added it to the game, it means the Japanese don't really care as much about some of this as many on here keep trying to exaggerate.

I don't recall anyone doing this with Ghost Of Tsushima or Ronin (or really any other game in some time period for that matter) , so I don't 100% buy the concern over Assassin's Creed Shadows. I bought Ghost and still enjoyed it even with it not being some 1.1 carbon copy of Japan, I'll do the same with Ghost Of Osaka : Yukimura's Revenge and I'll do the same with AC Shadows.

I mean I think there's a difference between their approaches... Sucker Punch tried to be as close and as respectful as possible where they could, but wherever they knew they needed a punch up they used an anachronism to stay "on-culture" so to speak.

Ubi Soft is going more for a kitchen sink approach using a mismatch of objects and architectural styles some of which are not even japanese and as a result sometimes it's even difficult to recognize what's on screen as distinctingly japanese.

 

[Emedan]

Wow, so it was all essentially made up by one person taking liberties with interpreting sources to create a narrative he wanted. As a history major myself - what an absolute disgrace to the subject.

 

[cripterion]

I agree with both Evilore and EDMIX.

I personally would like for a more accurate representation of Japan in this next AC game. As it stands it's just not on the level...

In regards to silly representations and inaccuracies I do agree there are plenty coming from Japan itself and yeah it's a fringe number of japanese people who will complain. Most gamers there will be too busy with Mobage anyways lol

 

[Team Andromeda]

I feel those 2 Japanese people need to get a life and a grip. It is a game and Ubisoft can do what they want IMO big fuss about nothing and I tire of the WOKE area with people looking to be offered about anything and everything.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

That lady is remarkably perceptive.

The sword not in the sheath, the floating door, the staircase to nowhere, the floating bullet, the barricaded door; the list of nonsense is huge.

Devs must hate her.

They should HIRE her!

 

[Lethal01]

Okay. Japanese people obviously care.

THe majority definitely don't give a shit

 

[Tams]

Because I didn't say that? Read the last paragraph of my post.

I said that the focus of minute details, particularly by casual western observers who are not even amateurs, let alone experts of Japanese history, have been sensitized by and is used to dress up the leading critique people have - that being Yasuke. My evidence for that is the fact that nobody cared to talk about the historical inaccuracies in culture, architecture, language, textiles or a host of other things as it pertained to previous AC games.

I'm saying that all of the arguments usually mocked by the anti-woke side of things has now been adopted for this particular case.

I would say that these points are undeniable. It's not to say that everyone who rolls their eyes at the game, or even more actively jumps on the bandwagon is a racist. That said, there are racists in that bandwagon, and you can tell because they aren't very closeted about it. Lmao.

Basically, it's not worth all the hullabaloo, and the attitude around this is inconsistent. Buy the game or don't, and do it specifically on the basis of Yasuke if you like. But let's not pretend this is about the lack of respeckin' Japanese culture, unless you believe that the fictionalized inclusion of Yasuke is such a mark against the purity of Japanese lore.

This is not an argument on behalf of Lockley's actual historical revisionism. But frankly, if not for AC Shadows, it probably would've flown under the radar for the foreseeable future. That's how much this entire thing hinges on current culture war dynamics.

I mean, if we want to be even more exact, Ronin came out this year and we didn't have many threads looking into every last element of the game like this. So I find when such videos come out, it hard for me to believe its a genuine thing, its not saying someone can't really have this view honestly, merely that it seems to be suspiciously absent regarding other games that released in the Japan setting, even ones that literally just released a few months ago.

If they cared about accuracy so much regarding this setting , where is their video on Ronin that came out in March?


I wouldn't go as far as to say anyone who cares is a racist. As a Haitian American (black for those who didn't know) I wouldn't go as far as to say anyone who cares is racist cause I've seen my fair share of that and I can't say this is solely due to that, I'm sure some are that are jumping on this as some bandwagon thing or something, but I think a lot might be talking about this more then normal because its Ubisoft.

We had Ronin release in March, we do not have a video by this person talking about those elements and this is a game set in Japan too during a similar time frame.

So I'm sure someone can really care about those elements in a game, but when its isolated like this, measured with things we've not seen used before to rate or judge other titles, I have to question why the extra attention is being given to this game in general.

When someone is judging a game this wildly based on like flower sizes, it starts to be a criticism about the entire industry not doing this vs AC Shadows, cause what game is even doing what they are talking about as if anything stated in the video was ever a common thing in a video game?


I'm sure someone does in Japan, but I'm also sure someone did have an issue with Vikings stuff in Valhalla or even Egyptian culture or something. It depends on who you ask tbh. Look at Far Cry 5, we had many here in the west that tried to make a big deal out of that game, it ended becoming the best selling Far Cry in history.

I'm not saying someone doesn't really care about this that Japanese, simply that its a moot point. You can find anyone, from any country that doesn't want anything to be in a game or something. If you or I made a game about our countries, I'm sure many would disagree within our own country about the elements put in the game, regardless, I'd side with the artist to create what they want.

Japan didn't make much of a deal about Nioh and Yasuke is literally in that...


I would actually love that. an AC Africa sounds amazing regardless.

To Bernardougf point, I wouldn't be offended remotely. I care about context and loved RE5 for what it was just like I like AC IV, I never looked at it like "OMG I'm Haitian and this person who is Welsh is KILLING US" or anything wild like that, I understand its fake, its a game, if they can explain HOW he gets to Africa (consider its occupation over the hundreds of years) then I'm fine with it.

The act of it happening is not an offense to me, please understand that context matters and its not like I was up in arms about people who look like me getting killed by the clan in RDR2 or something, its video game set in a time frame where that happened.

So from the perspective of someone who is a black male, I'm telling you those things do not offend me as I'm aware I'm playing a game. I need context and real evidence that the intent was to harm or something.

AC: Shadows is being scrutinised so heavily for two main reasons:

1. Ubisoft have gone out of their way to emphasise and boast about their inclusivity, respect, and accuracy. Many people just don't want a mesage shoved down their throats, especially if it affects how the game plays.
2. A Japanese set Assassin's Creed has been wanted by many since pretty much the first game. Other games simple don't have the same reach, reputation, and want for them.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Why are you an apologist in all these controversial threads lol. Is it just defending devs for the sake of it?

The pattern is always the same. He sees thread about AC Shadows (or Star Wars Outlaws, more on that later) and then waits until it runs its course to "run to its rescue", coincidentally along with other people agreeing with him lockstep.

Of course, he's going to pick and choose which thread to interject himself if he thinks it'll earn him some 'e-cred'. That's why we hardly see him interject in Outlaws sales-related thread.