Support NeoGAF

[metalslimer]

First 4 weeks.

So basically right in the middle. I don't think we'll see 3rd versions anymore.

How is Level 5 still surviving when almost every game they release is bombing?

They probably have large amount of cash from their few years of amazing success. This can't continue on like this though. If Fantasy Life and Little Battlers W bomb, I don't know what they will do. They really need to get Phoenix vs Layton out, although with L5's track record I feel scared for that game

 

[Chris1964]

Did Famitsu drop DSiLL sales?

You can't drop what you don't have.

 

[allan-bh]

Since Media Create is now same time with Famitsu thread title must return to the superior tracker.

Yes, please.

 

[cw_sasuke]

After seeing this its hard to feel sorry for Hino - its no game but still...i mean...really ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96kMgkfJp9Q&feature=player_embedded

 

[duckroll]

After seeing this its hard to feel sorry for Hino - its no game but still...i mean...really ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96kMgkfJp9Q&feature=player_embedded

Yeah, I saw that yesterday. Looks bad.

 

[Aostia]

Declining sales for the 3DS, probably because of the XL incoming. We'll discover it soon.
Other platform stable in their usual position.

For SW it seems a good debut for Taiko, considering that it usually sell for a lot of weeks/months. Good debut for a small game as Calciobit that do way better than the first episode. DQ and LBX still register good numbers as Mario Tennis while EO4 seems maybe too low, this week. TT debuts in a similar way to Extreme Escape Good People Die, but I suspect that the product values were higher, so I think that this is no good news for L5. Maybe PSP version will do better. Great legs for the trinity but the leader is clearly MH3g that increses its weekly sales!

 

[Takao]

How is Level 5 still surviving when almost every game they release is bombing?

The margins on toys are insane. LBX bringing dat paper, and while Inazuma and Layton are in decline given how iterative those games are they're probably very profitable.

 

[Laguna]

I find it very hard to feel sorry for Hino and his crew given what they've done. Rather than build reliable and strong IPs Level-5 has taken the Activision route of milking them for all their worth before intense decline forces you onto the next one. But unlike Activision, AFAIK Level-5 is not a public company with thousands of share holders breathing down Hino's neck expecting year over year growth.

Is it just a coincidence that only Sonyfans are so ridiculously bitter and wish the worst for Level5?

 

[Kazerei]

So what's Level 5's bomba/not bomba ratio in the past year? lol

 

[Stumpokapow]

Boy, the console war / bad faith about other posters stuff has gotten pretty bad lately.

 

[grimshawish]

I find it very hard to feel sorry for Hino and his crew given what they've done. Rather than build reliable and strong IPs Level-5 has taken the Activision route of milking them for all their worth before intense decline forces you onto the next one. But unlike Activision, AFAIK Level-5 is not a public company with thousands of share holders breathing down Hino's neck expecting year over year growth.

Surely they can't be that ba-

After seeing this its hard to feel sorry for Hino - its no game but still...i mean...really ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96kMgkfJp9Q&feature=player_embedded

...wow...

 

[schuelma]

I can't wait for the holiday season. That is when the fun starts.

 

[Error]

Monster Hunter just doesn't stop selling, amazing.

MH4 is when I'll get back into the series, hope Capcom brings it here.

 

[metalslimer]

Is it just a coincidence that only Sonyfans are so ridiculously bitter and wish the worst for Level5?

I don't know what this has to do with Sony fans. We all can agree Level 5 put themselves in this situation.

Oh yeah and Little Battlers x Inazuma looks fucking ridiculous.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

That underlines how fucking oustanding MH is.

And it's great for Nintendo to have such a popular 3rd party title.

 

[saichi]

the biggest winner this week is also a Level 5 game... LBX:EB on 3DS. it only dropped 65% which is amazing for a second week.

 

[Erethian]

Boy, the console war / bad faith about other posters stuff has gotten pretty bad lately.

Dare I ask?

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

At least Danboru Senki is doing well. Poor L5 getting too much heat.

edit: ^^ beaten

 

[Aostia]

The margins on toys are insane. LBX bringing dat paper, and while Inazuma and Layton are in decline given how iterative those games are they're probably very profitable.

Also western Inazuma Eleven licenses are very profitable for L5, I can assure you
BTW: are the toys made by L5 in Japan, or by Bandai as for the West? I supposed that both LBX and Inazuma were licensed to third parties in terms of toys, gadgets, merchandises and so on..

 

[slaughterking]

Huh? What makes you think TT has higher production values than Robotics;Notes? Also, I'll say that 5pb and Nitroplus are better pedigree for the actual VN buying crowd than Jiro Ishii. Just look at historical sales.

I don't say it has higher production values than R;N. (and I don't say it doesn't, because I don't know really)
My point is that TT was not some kind of side-project Level 5 was shitting out in-between the next Layton and Inazuma game. They put significant time and effort into the game and for it to sell barely as good as the secondary version of another recent VN is just terrible and I can't imagine a scenario where it could have sold worse than it did.

 

[Brazil]

So what's Level 5's bomba/not bomba ratio in the past year? lol

Edit: Oh, not really. They have those multiple IE games that sold pretty well, considering what they were.

Bombs:

Ni no Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch
Girls RPG: Cinderella Life
Guild01
Time Travelers

Not Bombs:

Little Battlers eXperience
Inazuma Eleven Strikers
Inazuma Eleven Go: Shine / Dark
Inazuma Eleven Strikers 2012 Xtreme
Little Battlers eXperience Baku Boost

 

[Takao]

Also western Inazuma Eleven licenses are very profitable for L5, I can assure you
BTW: are the toys made by L5 in Japan, or by Bandai as for the West? I supposed that both LBX and Inazuma were licensed to third parties in terms of toys, gadgets, merchandises and so on..

Scamco makes the LBX kits worldwide.

Is it just a coincidence that only Sonyfans are so ridiculously bitter and wish the worst for Level5?

Yes, if Level-5 was doing what they were doing except only on PlayStation I'd have a totally different tune. You really read me like a book Laguna.

 

[Oxx]

It will be interesting to see how well this year's Inazuma games do.

Is around 400k the new level for the series, or will the larger 3DS user-base push it higher? Or I guess it could continue to decline...

 

[duckroll]

I don't say it has higher production values than R;N. (and I don't say it doesn't, because I don't know really)
My point is that TT was not some kind of side-project Level 5 was shitting out in-between the next Layton and Inazuma game. They put significant time and effort into the game and for it to sell barely as good as the secondary version of another recent VN is just terrible and I can't imagine a scenario where it could have sold worse than it did.

It doesn't really matter if it is a side project from Level-5 or not. It just shows that Level-5 doesn't know how to sell VNs and they failed to tap into the fanbase well. The game is definitely not a success right now (pending PSP sales), but I just don't think it's a HUGE BOMBA because we're talking about a smaller niche fanbase to begin with. Even if it turned out to be successful, it would just be a 100k+ game at best. Level-5 has larger things to worry about, like the games they expect to sell over 500k.

 

[Takao]

I don't know what this has to do with Sony fans. We all can agree Level 5 put themselves in this situation.

Oh yeah and Little Battlers x Inazuma looks fucking ridiculous.

Honestly it's not that much different from what I know of the LBX anime. These kids travel around the world, and stop political assassinations. Some weird ass crossover with a soccer club seems kind of normal.

 

[duckroll]

Honestly it's not that much different from what I know of the LBX anime. These kids travel around the world, and stop political assassinations. Some weird ass crossover with a soccer club seems kind of normal.

You forgot time travel. (lol)

 

[Aeana]

It doesn't really matter if it is a side project from Level-5 or not. It just shows that Level-5 doesn't know how to sell VNs and they failed to tap into the fanbase well. The game is definitely not a success right now (pending PSP sales), but I just don't think it's a HUGE BOMBA because we're talking about a smaller niche fanbase to begin with. Even if it turned out to be successful, it would just be a 100k+ game at best. Level-5 has larger things to worry about, like the games they expect to sell over 500k.

Erm, didn't Hino say he wanted 500k for Time Travelers?

 

[metalslimer]

It doesn't really matter if it is a side project from Level-5 or not. It just shows that Level-5 doesn't know how to sell VNs and they failed to tap into the fanbase well. The game is definitely not a success right now (pending PSP sales), but I just don't think it's a HUGE BOMBA because we're talking about a smaller niche fanbase to begin with. Even if it turned out to be successful, it would just be a 100k+ game at best. Level-5 has larger things to worry about, like the games they expect to sell over 500k.

Didn't Hino saiy he wanted 500k from Time Travellers?

Edit: beaten like a slime

 

[Mpl90]

07./02. [3DS] Etrian Odyssey IV: Denshou no Kyojin <RPG> (Atlus) {2012.07.05} (¥6.279) - 14.221 / 111.363 (-85%)

8 [NDS] Etrian Odyssey III: The Downed City (Atlus Co.) - 17.601 / 112.063 01/04/10
7 [NDS] Etrian Odyssey II: Heroes of Lagaard (Atlus Co.) - 22.636 / 108.191 21/02/08

04./03. [3DS] Little Battlers eXperience: Explosive Boost <RPG> (Level 5) {2012.07.05} (¥4.400) - 19.468 / 75.082 (-65%)

16 [PSP] Little Battler Xperience: Boost (Level 5) - 15.477 / 74.925 23/11/11

Etrian Odyssey has a really dedicated fanbase, woah at LBX.

 

[duckroll]

Erm, didn't Hino say he wanted 500k for Time Travelers?

Yes but that doesn't matter. If he really wanted 500k he wouldn't make a VN. Having stupid unreasonable expectations doesn't change reality.

 

[michaelius]

I wonder what will become of Ishii now. Time Travelers doing so poorly makes me fear for him.

Didn't 999 sell similarly bad ?

 

[slaughterking]

It doesn't really matter if it is a side project from Level-5 or not. It just shows that Level-5 doesn't know how to sell VNs and they failed to tap into the fanbase well. The game is definitely not a success right now (pending PSP sales), but I just don't think it's a HUGE BOMBA because we're talking about a smaller niche fanbase to begin with. Even if it turned out to be successful, it would just be a 100k+ game at best. Level-5 has larger things to worry about, like the games they expect to sell over 500k.

Well, Hino did say he wanted TT to sell over 500k. I don't want to hold that against him, because he was clearly just daydreaming for a moment....but still. That statement looks pretty funny right now.

 

[RurouniZel]

Erm, didn't Hino say he wanted 500k for Time Travelers?

I bet he wishes he could go back in time and revise that statement.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Yes but that doesn't matter. If he really wanted 500k he wouldn't make a VN. Having stupid unreasonable expectations doesn't change reality.

Sure it does, provided those expectations weren't just marketing talk and they actually built their company's annual revenue flow around selling 500k copies of the game and budgeted the game higher to reflect that.

 

[Aostia]

Scamco makes the LBX kits worldwide.

Ok, as I suspected, thank you.
I'm wondering if a 3ds version of LBX W is out of question or if they'll add it to the PSPVITA train after all. I know that 3ds versions probably exist in particular for the western markets 2013 cartoon series release, but it would be dumb even for L5 to drop the sequel on the 3ds imho.

Another question: why is TT results so bad when other similar titles usually don't sell that much either? I mean: EE Good people die did 9K on 3DS and 6k on Vita few months ago; also 428 was better but surely not huge, and so on...

Is that because we expect from L5 more Layton-like results?

 

[duckroll]

Sure it does, provided those expectations weren't just marketing talk and they actually built their company's annual revenue flow around selling 500k copies of the game and budgeted the game higher to reflect that.

No, he was talking shit with the director of the game and they said "fuck yeah we want to sell 500k". It wasn't a business interview.

 

[Mpl90]

Ok, as I suspected, thank you.
I'm wondering if a 3ds version of LBX W is out of question or if they'll add it to the PSPVITA train after all. I know that 3ds versions probably exist in particular for the western markets 2013 cartoon series release, but it would be dumb even for L5 to drop the sequel on the 3ds imho.

Another question: why is TT results so bad when other similar titles usually don't sell that much either? I mean: EE Good people die did 9K on 3DS and 6k on Vita few months ago; also 428 was better but surely not huge, and so on...

Is that because we expect from L5 more Layton-like results?

Probably they'll go with LBX W Boost in 2013.

 

[Aeana]

Didn't 999 sell similarly bad ?

Ishii had nothing to do with 999. Ishii's last game was 428, a visual novel for Wii/PS3/PSP, which sold extremely well. 63k+21k on Wii, 34k on PS3 and 34k on PSP.

 

[metalslimer]

I think a 3DS version of Little Battlers W is all but confirmed with how well EB is doing. Probably would be sometime next year though.

 

[duckroll]

Ishii had nothing to do with 999. Ishii's last game was 428, a visual novel for Wii/PS3/PSP, which sold extremely well. 63k+21k on Wii, 34k on PS3 and 34k on PSP.

Let's be fair and look at the initial Wii release itself. It sold 34k in the first week, and 63k total. If you take that into account, considering how TT sold 20k in the first week before the PSP release, it's not really THAT big of a difference at all.

 

[vareon]

The real winner here is Calciobit. Huzzah for Nintendo Direct.

 

[Takao]

Ok, as I suspected, thank you.
I'm wondering if a 3ds version of LBX W is out of question or if they'll add it to the PSPVITA train after all. I know that 3ds versions probably exist in particular for the western markets 2013 cartoon series release, but it would be dumb even for L5 to drop the sequel on the 3ds imho.

There will probably be an LBX W Boost for 3DS eventually. I don't think a 3DS SKU can make the September release. The Vita SKU of W even existing is beyond my comprehension.

Another question: why is TT results so bad when other similar titles usually don't sell that much either? I mean: EE Good people die did 9K on 3DS and 6k on Vita few months ago; also 428 was better but surely not huge, and so on...

Is that because we expect from L5 more Layton-like results?

Good People Die is from a much smaller publishing house, and likely had a much cheaper budget. 999-2 wasn't in development for years like Time Travelers was, and didn't have so much attention given to it.

 

[Aeana]

Let's be fair and look at the initial Wii release itself. It sold 34k in the first week, and 63k total. If you take that into account, considering how TT sold 20k in the first week before the PSP release, it's not really THAT big of a difference at all.

428 also got a 40 in Famitsu, which undoubtedly boosted sales. I suppose all we can do is wait and see what happens next week and how the PSP version does as well.

 

[Bruno MB]

Inazuma Eleven series is expanding in the Europe market and Professor Layton is still incredibly solid there, so the international sales for both titles make up for the decline in sales in Japan.

There is no need to panic yet though I would be really concerned, specially with the future transition to 3DS in the West for both franchises.

 

[duckroll]

Inazuma Eleven series is expanding in the West market and Professor Layton is still incredibly solid there, so the international sales for both titles make up for the decline in sales in Japan.

There is no need to panic yet though I would be really concerned, specially with the future transition in the West to 3DS for both franchises.

How much does Level-5 get from international sales though? With Nintendo handling the localization, marketing, publishing, etc for all those games outside of Japan, I can't imagine Level-5 gets a huge cut out of it. They definitely depend more on domestic sales which they publish themselves.

 

[metalslimer]

http://andriasang.com/con1yu/oni_training_demo/

Demon Training demo out along with a weird Nintendo Direct with two Brain Training heads of Kawashima and Iwata talking.

 

[Takao]

How much does Level-5 get from international sales though? With Nintendo handling the localization, marketing, publishing, etc for all those games outside of Japan, I can't imagine Level-5 gets a huge cut out of it. They definitely depend more on domestic sales which they publish themselves.

Which makes you wonder why exactly does Level-5 USA even exist. It's very likely that Scamco will publish the LBX games in the west too.

 

[Aostia]

There will probably be an LBX W Boost for 3DS eventually. I don't think a 3DS SKU can make the September release. The Vita SKU of W even existing is beyond my comprehension.



Good People Die is from a much smaller publishing house, and likely had a much cheaper budget. 999-2 wasn't in development for years like Time Travelers was, and didn't have so much attention given to it.

I agree with your analysis.
For the point 1) probably it's true: but it will confirm L% bizzare marketing strategy, imho.
For the point 2) I think that the main problem in fact is not TT actual result: if we look at other similar titles (aka VN) I think that it did standard results. The problem is that they tried to attract a different demographic target that is niche, but investing a lot (we suppose) in terms of development/expectations (also if we don't know exaclty neither costs or projections)

 

[Acosta]

08./00. [PSV] Time Travelers <ADV> (Level 5) {2012.07.12} (¥5.980) - 9.887 / NEW
09./00. [3DS] Time Travelers <ADV> (Level 5) {2012.07.12} (¥5.980) - 9.761 / NEW

Now we know what will be the chosen handheld for third parties.

Ok, seriously, duckroll, stop with the voodoo thing to Hino.

 

[duckroll]

Now we know what will be the chosen handheld for third parties.

Ok, seriously, duckroll, stop with the voodoo thing to Hino.

He shouldn't have touched Gundam. Now I won't be happy until he is utterly destroyed.