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Jim Ryan says PS5 is ‘well on track’ to be Sony’s most successful console ever
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News Business Hardware
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
I call bullshit
Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
Still with the false narrative?
"we do not plan to release any new major existing franchise titles next fiscal year like God of War Ragnarök and Marvelʼs Spider-Man"
Robb
Gold Member
“Business semantics” is my favorite Ps5 exclusive.
Sony doesn’t deserve to have people thinking 3rd party games are part of their first party output.
DeepSpace5D
Member
Concord has a 2024 launch according to Firewalk studios and is a 1st party game.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
He's not lying. PS5 is incredibly successful and will be printing a lot of money for Sony for a long time.
With Xbox cratering and GTA 6 and the PS5 Pro on the horizon they are even gonna get more successful than they were with the PS4 gen.
With Xbox cratering and GTA 6 and the PS5 Pro on the horizon they are even gonna get more successful than they were with the PS4 gen.
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Faust
Perpetually Tired
I love my PS5, but it isn’t for the awful first party output or low effort exclusives from Sony. It has been the third party releases and purchased exclusives like FF7Rebirth that have kept me playing.
The console may be successful, but this will probably be considered by many long term fans as the weakest generation for Sony’s Exclusives/First Party.
The console may be successful, but this will probably be considered by many long term fans as the weakest generation for Sony’s Exclusives/First Party.
semiconscious
Member
no, exclusives in general. check out these lists of first/third party exclusives, & tell me you anticipate seeing an equal number on ps5:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:PlayStation_2-only_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:PlayStation_3-only_games
edit: compared to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:PlayStation_5-only_games
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Reminder: Helldivers 2 was a smash hit and PlayStation already said their mid to long term GAAS plans remain unchanged.
yurinka
Member
Bullshit. Jim's SIE is generating the biggest amount of revenue any console maker ever made by far. And it's doing so with the best profits PS ever had.
Their profits are better than ever, on a growing trend, temporally interrumpted by costs related to many acquisitions they made since 2021. And partially also due to rise in hardware component and shipment costs.
They are successfully growing in the GaaS, PC and movie + tv show areas, all of them which provide them a great profitability margin. So will help them to continue growing them.
It's also important to notice they have been achieving this also while releasing a lot of hardware and accesories (PSVR, PS Portal etc), having a record number of first party games under development, hugely growing their manpower via acquisitions and hiring and having a record investment for this generation in 2nd party (amount of mone invested) and 3rd party exclusives (amount of games signed for the generation).
Jim and Spencer are night and day.
Jim is the most successful console maker CEO ever, and Spencer will pretty likely kill their console soon, after not being able to compete even after having spent around $100B on acquisitions and almost giving all their games away on a game sub day one.
Total bullshit.
Sony makes a shit ton of revenue. They could keep it in the bank as profit as Nintendo does, but Sony prefers to reinvesting on making a record number of huge blockbusters, high end devices, accessories, to improve their game sub, VR and cloud gaming, to sign more 2nd and 3rd party deals than the competition, etc.
Sony decides to reinvest over to keep it as profit and only make way less and smaller games and have an underpowered and overpriced hardware, plus signing way less exclusives as Nintendo does. And well, if they wouldn't have this revenue wouldn't be able to do all this. Because unlike others like MS, they have a very successful and self sustainable business with their gaming division without needing the money from the rest of the corportation.
Regarding their profits, Sony said when asked about them in QA was that recently (this and the current FY) had a decline because of cost related to recent acquisitions, cost that will ease out next fiscal year. And also because hardware (+shipment) component costs over time have been increasing unlike in all the other generations, where they instead went down over time.
He said they plan to compensate it and improve in this area with specially profitable areas like PC and GaaS with the releases they had planned, plus some cost reduction measures and that they planned to be aggresive with it (later we saw them firing around 1000 people after having hired or acquired many thosands in recent years, and shutting down a studio and a cancelling games under development).
They were more than fine regarding profit and now will be better, but needed to do so specially considering potential upcoming economy market fluctuations related to the NATO vs BRICS economical war, physical stuff costs keep growing, inflation continues growing in many countries and because games are getting very expensive to be made, so getting more revenue and profit sources is a must.
Not true. They said to have "more than" 25 PS Studios games under development, and only 12 of them are Gaas, which is a minority.
We also know that most of these GaaS (of which they are very successful with MLB, GT, Destiny and Helldivers, and cancelled a few ones) were already greenlighted before he became CEO. And we also know that most of the first party games greenlighted since he was CEO aren't GaaS.
He retires today, as he said around half a year ago. If would have been fired he'd have left then. And well, it would be totally nonsensical and stupid the most successful CEO that any console maker ever had when he keeps breaking many historical records.
Yes, in most metrics he achieved all time records for PlayStation history. And in most of them, also for the entire gaming history in any console maker.
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Skifi28
Member
Yeah, if you go back to the list and keep removing the games after they get ported to PC, eventually you won't have much of a list. We live in a different multiplatform world than we did in previous generations, but that's a different discussion entirely though.
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semiconscious
Member
well, yeah, that's absolutely a 'different discussion'. but my original point which triggered our original discussion's still valid, no matter what games from what console, including the ps5, might end up getting ported whenever, eh?...
Skifi28
Member
I suppose it depends on the lens one is looking things through. In playstation VS its console competitors there are many exclusives that will stay that way. If you include PC, then eventually there might be zero exclusives specific to just playstation on that list and you're right.
yurinka
Member
Jim Ryan is right. A few days a go someone counted the PS5 and went to count the number of them who were 30fps only. There were over 3000 PS5 games, only 4 of them being 30fps only.
When the details of the PS5 BC were detailed, it was mentioned that there were over 4000 PS4 games back then. Meaning, launch aligned PS5 is getting way more games than PS4. Which as I remember was the PS with the largest catalog.
Laughably incomplete lists.
Other than that, over time games take more time to be made, so each team can release less games per generation. In addition to this, they also became way more expensive to make, with inflation they are being sold for a way cheaper price and on top of that also quickly got highly discounted. Since the amount of sales didn't highly grow, this means devs had to search for additional revenue sources, being the main one to release them in more platforms.
On top of that, you're comparing a console that barely is 3 years old against a console that was almost 13 years in the market and another one that was around 11 years in the market.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
OK, Jim.
Let's celebrate Sony, the business making the most money in revenue and profit. That's great for us consumers, glad you're doing well.
Can you show us some games though? Not cross gen games, but true ps5 games?
Let's celebrate Sony, the business making the most money in revenue and profit. That's great for us consumers, glad you're doing well.
Can you show us some games though? Not cross gen games, but true ps5 games?
freefornow
Member
Go nuts Jim. Phil wanted me to forward this to you. He uses it all the time.
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MasterCornholio
Member
You mean good games that people buy a PS5 for?
That's already is happening which is why the system is selling so well.
Woopah
Member
Probably fewer hardware units sold than the PS2, but greater software units, revenue and profit.
They've had a good start to the year first party wise with Hellblade, Ronin, TLoU2 Remastered and soon Stellar Blade. Lets see if they have anything for H2 apart from Conchord.
They've had a good start to the year first party wise with Hellblade, Ronin, TLoU2 Remastered and soon Stellar Blade. Lets see if they have anything for H2 apart from Conchord.
Profit isn't just money kept in the bank. Nintendo reinvests its profits into the business like Sony does.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
So that's the hill you have chosen to die on?
Here are some questions for you.
Do you know there is a difference between successful and best-selling? Do you know something that sells 10M can make more money than something that sold 30M? What do you think the number crunchers look at? How many consoles a platform sold? Or how much money that platform make them?
The answers to the above questions should hopefully make you see the folly of your ways.
semiconscious
Member
well, my lens, like that of the wikipedia lists, is the traditional/fundamental one: number of console exclusives over the life of the console. beyond the life of the console? whatever...
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Shall we do an avatar bet, I don't think it will sell more than ps4 and more gamers will look to PC due to multiplatform games that are driving sales now.
So, I'm happy to bet it will sell less than ps4? Wanna take me up on a bet?
That's selling less than ps4 with even less competition from xbox, which is basically none existent now.
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Oof85
Banned
All the words you've typed means very little in the face of recent layoffs, outright leaked information from Insomniac and their push into gaas titles.Bullshit. Jim's SIE is generating the biggest amount of revenue any console maker ever made by far. And it's doing so with the best profits PS ever had.
Their profits are better than ever, on a growing trend, temporally interrumpted by costs related to many acquisitions they made since 2021. And partially also due to rise in hardware component and shipment costs.
They are successfully growing in the GaaS, PC and movie + tv show areas, all of them which provide them a great profitability margin. So will help them to continue growing them.
It's also important to notice they have been achieving this also while releasing a lot of hardware and accesories (PSVR, PS Portal etc), having a record number of first party games under development, hugely growing their manpower via acquisitions and hiring and having a record investment for this generation in 2nd party (amount of mone invested) and 3rd party exclusives (amount of games signed for the generation).
Jim and Spencer are night and day.
Jim is the most successful console maker CEO ever, and Spencer will pretty likely kill their console soon, after not being able to compete even after having spent around $100B on acquisitions and almost giving all their games away on a game sub day one.
Total bullshit.
Sony makes a shit ton of revenue. They could keep it in the bank as profit as Nintendo does, but Sony prefers to reinvesting on making a record number of huge blockbusters, high end devices, accessories, to improve their game sub, VR and cloud gaming, to sign more 2nd and 3rd party deals than the competition, etc.
Sony decides to reinvest over to keep it as profit and only make way less and smaller games and have an underpowered and overpriced hardware, plus signing way less exclusives as Nintendo does. And well, if they wouldn't have this revenue wouldn't be able to do all this. Because unlike others like MS, they have a very successful and self sustainable business with their gaming division without needing the money from the rest of the corportation.
Regarding their profits, Sony said when asked about them in QA was that recently (this and the current FY) had a decline because of cost related to recent acquisitions, cost that will ease out next fiscal year. And also because hardware (+shipment) component costs over time have been increasing unlike in all the other generations, where they instead went down over time.
He said they plan to compensate it and improve in this area with specially profitable areas like PC and GaaS with the releases they had planned, plus some cost reduction measures and that they planned to be aggresive with it (later we saw them firing around 1000 people after having hired or acquired many thosands in recent years, and shutting down a studio and a cancelling games under development).
They were more than fine regarding profit and now will be better, but needed to do so specially considering potential upcoming economy market fluctuations related to the NATO vs BRICS economical war, physical stuff costs keep growing, inflation continues growing in many countries and because games are getting very expensive to be made, so getting more revenue and profit sources is a must.
Not true. They said to have "more than" 25 PS Studios games under development, and only 12 of them are Gaas, which is a minority.
We also know that most of these GaaS (of which they are very successful with MLB, GT, Destiny and Helldivers, and cancelled a few ones) were already greenlighted before he became CEO. And we also know that most of the first party games greenlighted since he was CEO aren't GaaS.
He retires today, as he said around half a year ago. If would have been fired he'd have left then. And well, it would be totally nonsensical and stupid the most successful CEO that any console maker ever had when he keeps breaking many historical records.
Yes, in most metrics he achieved all time records for PlayStation history. And in most of them, also for the entire gaming history in any console maker.
Everything they've done reiterates that even with all their revenue peaks and accompanied profit it's not working for them.
We've seen the razor thin margins Yurinka, it's known.
How is he the best when the point he's led them to thus far, is where they're pivoting away from now that he's leaving?
It's not what you say, it's what you do.
And the remarks about how Sony spends revenue vs Nintendo is basically just an indictment against Sony's decisions in a roundabout way.
Sony is the most consistent brand in the industry.
That much is easily proven
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I’m looking at them for what they were in their time.
PS2 didn’t have paid online, or a subscription service. Online was in its infancy. There was no digital store to reap 100% of sales from.
It dominated the way systems back then did - by selling consoles and physical games.
PS2 was a Goliath beyond what PS5 is despite not having all of the modern advantages PS5 has.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
“Business semantics” is my favorite Ps5 exclusive.
Sony doesn’t deserve to have people thinking 3rd party games are part of their first party output.
Nintendo uses tons of second party studios and no one ever questions or cares that they aren’t “true first party”
Unknown?
Member
Really? PS1 was pretty weak for first party.
yurinka
Member
I think you didn't understood the graph: "net sales" is basically revenue and "operative income" is basically profit. And taller bars means better than shorter bars.
In recent years they are higher than ever been, which is good.
Maybe you saw them in your dreams. The reality is the graph posted above. Better profit than ever even if they've been making a lot of acquisitions, releasing a lot of hardware and accesories and funding a ton of very expensive games.
They aren't pivoting anywhere. He basically continued the same strategy Sony already had, and the next CEO will basically continue the same strategy Sony already had.
Their strategy is working better than ever, it would be retarded to change it.
The games that the next CEO will release during the rest of the generation and in the first years of the next one will be games greenlighted by Jim and some even before him.
They will continue with the GaaS they are working on and the ones they already published. They will continue with the PC ports of old games and as planned while ago they'll release at least some of these GaaS day one on PC.
They'll keep releasing movies and tv show adaptations, and soonish will release PS Cloud gaming in mobile and will start publishing the mobile games they have been working on since some years ago.
And as planned, once they sell the 80% of their banks stuff in fall 2025 they'll continue with the acquisitions.
Astro, Morales, Demon's Souls, Sackboy, Rift Apart, Returnal, HFW, GoW, GT7 & GT7VR, Horizon CoM, Spider-Man 2, Helldivers 2 plus the remasters/remakes/director's cuts... yeah, all of them are awful, sure. Super awful, PS haz no gamez.
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Faust
Perpetually Tired
Out of those games you listed, the only ones that I actually enjoyed and thought were genuinely good were Astro, the pack in/demo title, Demon's Souls, a 1 to 1 remake of a PS3 game, Returnal, and Helldivers 2.
Sackboy is a mediocre platformer that was quickly forgotten and lacked any of the interesting mechanics that the Little Big Planet series is known for.
Rift Apart, Miles Morales, Horizon, Spider-Man 2, and God of War are all far worse versions of their predecessors with heavy handed, slacktivist-bent writing. If you enjoy being lectured, I am sure you can enjoy these games, but I do not. And given the discourse on GAF and elsewhere, many others feel the same way. They sold as well as they did because of the long history of their IPs or the quality of the predecessors, not because they were genuinely fantastic games in their own rights.
Horizon COM is a glorified tech demo. GT7 Vr is the only game they have put out on their PSVR2 platform that feels like a genuine attempt at VR gaming and even then, its still the heavily flawed always-online, GAAS GT7 that lacked a compelling single player progression for me.
Also, no where did I state that Playstation "haz no gamez", so please drop the strawman arguments and gaslighting.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
add between 5 to10M X-Xbox users.
Longer gen
and one IP:
GTAVI.
Maybe PS5 can get to 130M
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
You said PS5 didn't have any true PS5 games, but the fact is nobody cares if something is true next gen or not.
The best looking game on the system is still a cross-gen title, beating out MANY next-gen only titles. What's selling systems are the games.
Nobody cares that Breath of the Wild was cross-gen either. It sold games. I don't know why the goalpost continually shifts for Sony titles. Like they have plenty of games but none of them count because they're not this or that ("true next gen" or "true first party"), despite those things being perfectly acceptable on other platforms.
Robb
Gold Member
I’ve never seen anyone claim an IP they don’t own to be a first party Nintendo game. And if that claim was made I’d hope they’d be corrected. People correct others over the Bayonetta IP being a SEGA title all the time, and not a Nintendo property.
To me it just sounds crazy that anyone would ever think something like, say, Devils Third to be a first party Nintendo game just because they published it.
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Kokoloko85
Member
By the end of next year the units sold should be between 80-100million. It might well end up selling more than PS4, PS2 is difficult though. Unless they get a major price cut
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James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
I’m not claiming it’s a first party game.
I just think it’s silly to be somehow disappointed in an overall lineup of good third and second party content that a platform holder went out and funded as if it doesn’t count as a big win for the platform
Robb
Gold Member
That’s fine. I don’t purchase any of my consoles for third or second party games though.
If you gave me the option to replace Rise of the Ronin/Stellar Blade/etc. with a new game from Insomniac/Naughty Dog/Asobi/etc. I wouldn’t even have to think twice about it.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
I wouldn’t trade many games for FF7R including first party on any platform
The Sony FP drought this year certainly isn’t being felt by me with all these games to play in the first half
They were wise to secure that content knowing there may be a gap
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Robb
Gold Member
For sure! And as I said, games are games. But they’re not the games I’m looking for, or necessarily looking forward to.
I’ll definitely give Stellar Blade a go once I pick up the system though. I do enjoy hack and slash games.
yurinka
Member
I mostly agree in the writing part and -like most people, as can be seen in most media or user reviews- strongly disagree on the claims of Sackboy being mediocre, "far worse versions", "glorified tech demo" and GT7 being "heavily flawed" game that lacks compelling SP progression.
This is not gaslighting or strawman, is having a common taste in gaming. The opposite to considering them "awful first party output or low effort exclusives", specially when contrasting it to how they sold, got reviewed, nominated or awarded, etc. And the relative impact they should had on the big PS5 success in record sales or engagement.
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nial
Member
Huh... Project Zero, Bayonetta and Astral Chain (before they apparently bought the IP).
I think overfocusing on the IP matter will end up going nowhere at the end of the day. Back in 2018, would have you called Spider-Man mainly a Marvel (IP holders), Insomniac (developers) or Sony (producer AND publisher) game?
Many, many ps2s were sold for Rockband and SingStar games that trended on that generation and than the trend quickly died. But the ps2 was at least sold for a cheap price so they a wider audience could buy one. I guess the PS5 will never reach those audiences just because it will never get into those cheaper price regions. Nowadays the production nodes just don't get that much more effective or cheaper (nach than it was crazy while every year you could shrink your chips to half the size).
The new generations of people more and more invest their time into mobile games and not console games. The market is still healthy but I guess as games get more and more expensive and the production of consoles doesn't get cheaper the market will just shrink a bit. It just can't grow much bigger at those prices (not like Ms and Sony projected at ps4/xbone Generation with 1bn potential consumers). It is (just the console sector) more or less going into a high price, less consumers product, that just spend more money for their hobby.
Robb
Gold Member
Yeah I can kind of agree with that. The devs are what matters at the end of the day.
What I personally want is just more exclusive content from Sony.
And what I’m getting at is that saying that Sony releasing Rise of the Ronin as a first party game gives more credit to Sony than they deserve and also unfairly discredits Koei Tecmo and Team Ninja, who is actually behind the game - not Sony.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Not sure why this paragraph or even the rest of the post feels like writing with a thorn in one’s side, but it does. Astro being a pack-in title should be a plus but it feels like portrayed as a negative somehow, Demon’s Souls being a remake (with some QoL improvements if I am not mistaken, a smooth 60 FPS mode kind of counts there
…) with a huge graphical update of everything about the game is also more than good enough (same thing I said when RE1: Remake came out on GCN years ago ).You are of course entitled to your opinions, but for me despite a heavier handed writing most of those games (have yet to get to GoW: Ragnarok for example) the games in questions are a step up gameplay and setting wise. I am not playing Spider-man 2 and wondering why it is selling well. I do not enjoy the writing as much as some people do (and they do), but while it is worse off in some areas it is not complete trash either (characters, scenarios, plot, etc…).
CoM might have benefited being a packed-in title and if the launch games selection had been more vibrant and healthier it probably would have and it would have removed a bit of a sting pricing wise for the headset. Like Sackboy it is a quirky little nice game that might not be heralded for years to come but makes the game selection a bit more rounded (I would love for more and more games that had that scope in PS’s library to be fair, it was part of what many liked about the historic PS games offering).
Not sure what pisses some people off GT7 wise, but you do recognise it might be something you personally do not get hooked by although many others are. Like HellDivers 2, it is not the game I would use to talk about how bad GaaS is. It’d feel like an own goal to me…
nial
Member
Oh, I don't think so, since those conversations are mostly about the publisher output. But when it comes to actually discussing the game, well, Team Ninja is always brought up.
Also, you could arguably say the same about their internally-developed games; Sony will get most of the praise for, as an example, Uncharted 4, but don't forget that the actual people behind it are those from Naughty Dog.
Until Dawn, and potentially Astro Bot and a Gravity Rush 2 remaster. Also, MLB The Show, lol.
I'm fairly optimistic for Astro Bot targeting this year; I believe had Sony not have any new SP game for H2, they would have delayed Stellar Blade even further since we were getting Rise of the Ronin just one month earlier, anyway.
Robb
Gold Member
I think this is where we might differ. Naughty Dog to me is Sony as they have 100% ownership. So in that case it makes perfect sense to give Sony full credit.
RCU005
Member
PS5 success is riding the success of the PS4. This is why it is being successful. Just you wait until the PS6 and their focus on GaaS to materialize, and will be back to the PS3 days.
Jim Ryan has been the worst CEO PlayStation has had, and Hermen Hulst has been the worst PS Studios head it has ever had.
Next generation is going to be trash (but interesting).
- Will Xbox launch another console?
- There is no way the PS6 is going to be successful after this trash of generation and the focus on GaaS.
- Nintendo is a wild card, and hopefully they reveal a new console that is a good as the Switch and it doesn't lose momentum. But if it does? What will next gen have?
Jim Ryan has been the worst CEO PlayStation has had, and Hermen Hulst has been the worst PS Studios head it has ever had.
Next generation is going to be trash (but interesting).
- Will Xbox launch another console?
- There is no way the PS6 is going to be successful after this trash of generation and the focus on GaaS.
- Nintendo is a wild card, and hopefully they reveal a new console that is a good as the Switch and it doesn't lose momentum. But if it does? What will next gen have?
nial
Member
It's fine, different views and all, lol. I do think my first point still stands.
Lupin25
Member
Not if they keep on releasing games like Helldivers 2.
Sony’s actually trying to change the narrative around GaaS, instead of running from it.
Robb
Gold Member
Sure, but either way, based on what started this whole discussion it comes down to whether Rise of the Ronin/Stellar Blade are first party Sony titles or not.
And they obviously aren’t, as Sony neither own the IP nor are the developers of the games.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
And thats a ridiculous way to look at anything. Especially this.
Just to point out how ridiculous what you are saying is (and I am using the word ridiculous because if I used what I wanted to say it could come off as insulting, but considering how crazy what you are saying is, you would deserve it), These days, PlayStation makes more money per year, than they did in the entire PS2 generation. Let that sink in. One year of PlayStation now.. is more profit generated than the entire generation of the PS2.
And that is how you measure success. Not some silly this box sold more than that one so that one is more successful.
And get this, if PS2 had all the "modern advantages" PS5 has, while it would definitely have also generated more money, it sure as hell would not have sold as many consoles. Why? First off, it would have cost even more than it did, and second, there wouldn't have been piracy. Which is the unsung hero for why exactly the PS2 sold as well as it did.
What you are doing is just an all-around silly and myopic way of measuring success. Like what kinda crazy mental gymnastics is that? Should we strip Usain Bolt of his medals because he probably had better facilities and tech today than say an athlete from 30 years ago?
The artful mincer
Member
Units sold is such as overrated retarded metric. In profit the ps2 did worse than the ps1 even.
In Profit and Revenue the PS4 is many many many times more successful than the PS2.