Support NeoGAF

[Men_in_Boxes]

This is critical thinking 101 and it seems to elude you. There are multiple issues with the game, however the vast majority of backlash started before the game launched due to its shit reveal with obvious left leaning political culture influence.

Backlash means nothing. If internet discourse had any value, Astro Bot would be selling 30 million copies and Fortnite and Warzone would be dead. The "vast majority backlash" (which is actually the vocal minority) severely overrates it's impact. Frequently wrong about a myriad of topics but never lets a poor track record get in the way of new BS.

You’re not making any good arguments here. I didn’t say the game was good, bad, or indifferent. I am saying it had heavy negative user impressions from the offset from obvious art direction and developer comments. First impressions matter, so do subsequent ones and they doubled down so they got what they wanted.

I would argue that people who play a game generally have a better understanding of said game than people who don't...is a good argument. I would also argue that "online discourse" is mostly a dumpster fire of people who don't challenge their opinions...is also a solid argument.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

It's a good video, it explains how a toxic work environment where criticism is frowned upon can lead to flawed games that don't sell. So the professors in charge at Firewalk didn't see a problem with the character designs, the pronouns, the stale gameplay at the wrong price point. OK,

But how come nobody at Sony intervened? They were the ones who straight out bought Firewalk because they were so impressed with Concord. Sony provided Firewalk with the money to create all those mini CGI movies, they were the ones who paid to get Concord included in the upcoming Amazon TV series "Secret Level".

Sony management should take a good look at the people who greenlit everything related to Concord, those people are completely out of touch with what PS gamers actually want to play.

Sony's management is infected by the same brain rot. The layoffs need to reach the upper management. These people would sink the ship before correcting its course.

 

[poppabk]

Bro, there are execs much higher in the value chain that are much worse. Unfortunately. Thousands of scientific papers have been written about escalation of commitment, sunk cost fallacy, etc.

It was a joke - hubris 'excessive pride or  self confidence' something it is very easy to imagine someone who self titles themselves "The Professor" having.

 

[Resenge]

Backlash means nothing. If internet discourse had any value, Astro Bot would be selling 30 million copies and Fortnite and Warzone would be dead. The "vast majority backlash" (which is actually the vocal minority) severely overrates it's impact. Frequently wrong about a myriad of topics but never lets a poor track record get in the way of new BS.

I would argue that people who play a game generally have a better understanding of said game than people who don't...is a good argument. I would also argue that "online discourse" is mostly a dumpster fire of people who don't challenge their opinions...is also a solid argument.

Your argument has a flaw, not everyone who plays games is influenced or even see's the online discourse and yet everyone except a small minority did not want to play this game. How do you explain that?

Remember this?

You can not stop people playing if they have a real interest in the game, yet Concord did not get that interest.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Your argument has a flaw, not everyone who plays games is influenced or even see's the online discourse and yet everyone except a small minority did not want to play this game. How do you explain that?

Remember this?

You can not stop people playing if they have a real interest in the game, yet Concord did not get that interest.

You misunderstand.

This is a case of "Correlation does not equal causation".

Just because there was a hate campaign against Concord early on does not mean the mob engaging in the hate campaign were right about why Concord flopped.

Concord flopped because it was the 6th best 5v5 Hero Shooter, had no hook, and released in a market dominated by F2P. It didn't excite people enough to try it and it wasn't good enough to keep those who did, to keep playing. The DEI pronouns impact was severely overblown by people who hate DEI and pronouns.

That said, my hypothesis is just as untestable as anyone elses so...

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

It was a joke - hubris 'excessive pride or  self confidence' something it is very easy to imagine someone who self titles themselves "The Professor" having.

I’m just trying to imagine what the company culture must be like if this is a place where you can demand to be called “The Professor” and not be laughed out of the fucking room.

Either it’s one big echo chamber of like-minded lunatics, or it’s a place where people are afraid to say what they really think.

 

[VictorVectors]

To Laura the girl boss:

 

[Nikodemos]

Concord flopped because it was the 6th best 5v5 Hero Shooter, had no hook, and released in a market dominated by F2P. It didn't excite people enough to try it and it wasn't good enough to keep those who did, to keep playing. The DEI pronouns impact was severely overblown by people who hate DEI and pronouns.

According to Rowby, a guy whose YT clips on Concord I've posted in an older thread, the game actually had a hook, but it was only really used by one of its play modes, and that mode was de-emphasized due to being a "hardcore" option.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

According to Rowby, a guy whose YT clips on Concord I've posted in an older thread, the game actually had a hook, but it was only really used by one of its play modes, and that mode was de-emphasized due to being a "hardcore" option.

Concords hook: (the one on the right)

 

[ReBurn]

She's so right that if you're building a product that you intend to sell for money you shouldn't block out feedback and build it in an echo chamber. I have no doubt that the Concord team believed that people who obsess over social justice bullet points would come out and support their game financially because the character designs and robot pronouns made them allies in the struggle for oppression points.

 

[diffusionx]

Game failed for three main reasons:
1. Horrible character design shut off a huge chunk of potential players who, sorry bluehairs, want at least some Chads and Waifus.
2. The price
3. The fact that the game wasn’t actually that good. I posted a video someone made in the other thread. The kit, unlocking, and map design had major issues.

How you want to split up the blame on all three is up to you. I contend that #1 is a big reason why for the simple reason that nobody bothered to play the beta. They couldn’t even get people in the door when it was free.

 

[manfestival]

Concord is GOTY. Just look at how everyone can't stop talking about it. That is an amazing feat that only a GOTY contender can get these days.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Game failed for three main reasons:
1. Horrible character design shut off a huge chunk of potential players who, sorry bluehairs, want at least some Chads and Waifus.
2. The price
3. The fact that the game wasn’t actually that good. I posted a video someone made in the other thread. The kit, unlocking, and map design had major issues.

How you want to split up the blame on all three is up to you. I contend that #1 is a big reason why for the simple reason that nobody bothered to play the beta. They couldn’t even get people in the door when it was free.

It would had been a top5 game of this generation if game reviews and sales were based on how good mo-cap and themed custom gamepads are.

Unfortunately for the studio, those things are priorities # 30 and 40.

 

[poppabk]

It would had been a top5 game of this generation if game reviews and sales were based on how good mo-cap and themed custom gamepads are.

Unfortunately for the studio, those things are priorities # 30 and 40.

Someone should let Xbox know.

 

[adamsapple]

Two Hundred and Fifty Million Dollars.

 

[Jinxed]

Replace the ugly caracters with the first descendant caracters and people would of been interested instead of being dead on arrival.

 

[SJRB]

Replace the ugly caracters with the first descendant caracters and people would of been interested instead of being dead on arrival.

People don't enjoy looking at ugliness, example 58723759038653

 

[Flabagast]

Where exactly did the money go? The game isn't even that big and it cost more than RDR2 to make? They must be joking.

RDR2 cost 600m$+

 

[Timberwolf25]

Concord is GOTY. Just look at how everyone can't stop talking about it. That is an amazing feat that only a GOTY contender can get these days.

The reason it has so many threads/comments is because at minimum it's the FOTY not GOTY contender. For many, it's the biggest Flop of All Time

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Concord is GOTY. Just look at how everyone can't stop talking about it. That is an amazing feat that only a GOTY contender can get these days.

Starfield x Concord

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Gotham City Impostors was a good game?

 

[semiconscious]

She's so right that if you're building a product that you intend to sell for money you shouldn't block out feedback and build it in an echo chamber. I have no doubt that the Concord team believed that people who obsess over social justice bullet points would come out and support their game financially because the character designs and robot pronouns made them allies in the struggle for oppression points.

yep. the attraction of cults has always been about the comfort & consolation of being part of the hive mind, & exacerbating the cult phenomenon is one of the many things that the internet has proven to be extremely effective at doing...

 

[Little Chicken]

Great video!

I'm sure the people working on Concord saw the writing on the wall the moment the director demanded to be referred to as "Professor"...

 

[Little Chicken]

Starfield x Concord

A moronic comparison

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

A moronic comparison

Just look at how everyone can't stop talking about it. That is an amazing feat that only a GOTY contender can get these days.

don't get triggered by the facts.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

250 million and 8 years

Lol. You couldn't even get rid of $250 million in 2 weeks. Phenomenal achievement by the Concord devs.

 

[StereoVsn]

Sony's management is infected by the same brain rot. The layoffs need to reach the upper management. These people would sink the ship before correcting its course.

I mean look who is the co-CEO is now. The rot starts at the top here.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

A moronic comparison

wait a fricking minute... the comparison was that people can't stop taking about the games (not the quality of them) .. but now that I think about it:

Both are mid games, they have pronouns and are ugly AF. Concord could be very well a game in the same universe as Starfield

 

[Madflavor]

I still can't believe that show Secret Level is going to have a Concord episode. That is some funny ass shit.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

I mean look who is the co-CEO is now. The rot starts at the top here.

Unsure but was it Jim Ryan or Hulst who was responsible for buying this studio?

 

[Flabagast]

Unsure but was it Jim Ryan or Hulst who was responsible for buying this studio?

In this kind of transaction the CEO always has the final say (otherwise why pay his so much to begin with?) so ultimately the responsibility must fall on Jim, although of course Hulst must have been the one pushing it hard so he is guilty also

 

[Timberwolf25]

Unsure but was it Jim Ryan or Hulst who was responsible for buying this studio?

Jim initiated the deal to buy, but Hulst could've pulled the game back when he saw the shit reception from the reveal and beta.
So in my mind, Hulst is mostly to blame for this poop show

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Jim initiated the deal to buy, but Hulst could've pulled the game back when he saw the shit reception from the reveal and beta.
So in my mind, Hulst is mostly to blame for this poop show

Pulling the game after the beta would have been just as bad as pulling the game a month later (after release). They didn't cross some kind of Rubicon in those three weeks.

Also, I'm now hearing budget was closer to 300 million.

 

[laynelane]

I don't see any reason to avoid watching, it's a pretty good video.

[00:00:00] Introduction to Concord’s Failure​

• Overview: The video begins by detailing the rapid decline of “Concord,” a game that was shut down just 12 days post-launch.
• Statistics: Despite a hefty investment exceeding $250 million, the game struggled to attract players, peaking at fewer than 1,000 concurrent users.
• Initial Expectations: Concord was anticipated to be a blockbuster, drawing heavy inspiration from the success of Overwatch. The developers had high hopes for its performance in the competitive gaming market.

[00:01:10] Market Evolution and Adaptation​

• Changing Market: The gaming market underwent significant changes during the development of Concord. Trends shifted, and new competitors emerged.
• Overwatch’s Influence: Initially, Concord aimed to emulate Overwatch’s success, but failed to pivot as the market evolved.
• Adaptation: The video underscores the necessity of staying attuned to market trends and being agile enough to adapt development strategies accordingly. This includes understanding player preferences and technological advancements.

[00:02:31] Comparison with Vanguard​

• Vanguard’s Failure: The video draws parallels between Concord and another failed game, Vanguard, which also suffered from an inability to adapt to market dynamics.
• Learning from Competitors: Emphasizing the importance of competitive analysis, the video suggests that developers should actively play and study rival games to glean insights and stay competitive.
• Player-Centric Development: Success hinges on developing games with a player-first approach, incorporating feedback and preferences from the gaming community throughout the development process.

[00:04:00] Impact of Broken Feedback Loop​

• Internal Issues: Firewalk Studio, the team behind Concord, faced severe internal challenges, including a toxic work culture that stifled creativity and collaboration.
• Talent Drain: The toxic environment led to the departure of key talent, which further hampered the game’s development.
• Creative Dialogue: The video highlights the critical role of a healthy feedback loop and open creative dialogue within the development team. Without it, innovation and problem-solving are severely compromised.

[00:07:01] Character Design and Target Audience​

• Inspirational Characters: Characters need to be more than just visually appealing; they must inspire and connect with the target audience on a deeper level.
• Audience Feedback: Gathering and integrating feedback from the target audience is crucial for refining character design and ensuring it resonates with players.
• Example: Gotham City Impostors is cited as a successful example where character design was closely aligned with audience expectations, contributing to its positive reception.

[00:08:00] Pricing Strategy and Market Reception​

• Pricing Challenges: Concord faced significant hurdles with its pricing strategy, which may have contributed to its poor market reception.
• Free-to-Play vs. Paid: The video explores the advantages and disadvantages of different pricing models, such as free-to-play versus paid games. Each model has its own set of challenges and benefits.
• Gotham City Impostors: Once again, Gotham City Impostors is mentioned as an example of a game that successfully navigated its pricing strategy, balancing player expectations with revenue goals.

Her points about being player-first and incorporating feedback (about the game/characters/etc.) were my biggest takeaways from this debacle. It's something I noticed during the initial reveal and later during the betas. People were giving very clear feedback about what they didn't like or would prefer, but the devs had no interest in that. That, more than anything, told me the game was DOA. Plus, ignoring the very customers you want to buy your product paints a very arrogant picture coming from a new development studio. It's hard to for me to sympathize due to that, as well.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Her points about being player-first and incorporating feedback (about the game/characters/etc.) were my biggest takeaways from this debacle. It's something I noticed during the initial reveal and later during the betas. People were giving very clear feedback about what they didn't like or would prefer, but the devs had no interest in that. That, more than anything, told me the game was DOA. Plus, Ignoring the very customers you want to buy your product paints a very arrogant picture coming from a new development studio. It's hard to for me to sympathize due to that, as well.

Some game studios just don’t give a shit. They do their own thing and hope for the best. That creative genius energy was so high no gamers are needed for feedback in 8 years.

Concord ran into a different issue beyond gameplay since the overarching story, graphics and he/him crap would take more time and budget to adjust.

Just about every other shooter looks decent and isn’t political. So any beta tests giving feedback are easy to tweak in time for launch (gun tweaks, basic graphic improvements, etc…)

Concord would need a mass overhaul. And impossible to do from May reveal to august launch.

 

[Timberwolf25]

Pulling the game after the beta would have been just as bad as pulling the game a month later (after release). They didn't cross some kind of Rubicon in those three weeks.

Also, I'm now hearing budget was closer to 300 million.

Pulling it from the beta to rework the game would've been better than releasing it the way they did to suffer the embarassment of cancelling 2 weeks after release.
They could've legitamately said, "that due to the feedback from the beta, we are working hard to improve the game to the standards that our audience demands". Instead, they got what a lot of people are saying is the biggest Flop of All Time.

And weren't you the one that were skeptical that the budget was even $100M much less closer to $300 as many of us have speculated it was all along.

You're delusional to think that it would've been as bad as the dumpster fire that they released. For 1 thing, you wouldn't have the endless memes that have given us endless enjoyment at the games expense.

 

[Timberwolf25]

Some game studios just don’t give a shit. They do their own thing and hope for the best. That creative genius energy was so high no gamers are needed for feedback in 8 years.

Concord ran into a different issue beyond gameplay since the overarching story, graphics and he/him crap would take more time and budget to adjust.

Just about every other shooter looks decent and isn’t political. So any beta tests giving feedback are easy to tweak in time for launch (gun tweaks, basic graphic improvements, etc…)

Concord would need a mass overhaul. And impossible to do from May reveal to august launch.

They would've needed probably a year delay to redesign the characters and add some other QoL that the game was severely lacking. Given the glacial output of this team, maybe 2 years would've been more likely.

 

[manfestival]

The reason it has so many threads/comments is because at minimum it's the FOTY not GOTY contender. For many, it's the biggest Flop of All Time

Starfield x Concord

don't get triggered by the facts.

yall chill it was just a joke LOL. sheeeeeeeesh

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

yall chill it was just a joke LOL. sheeeeeeeesh

me too

 

[Kacho]

Her points about being player-first and incorporating feedback (about the game/characters/etc.) were my biggest takeaways from this debacle. It's something I noticed during the initial reveal and later during the betas. People were giving very clear feedback about what they didn't like or would prefer, but the devs had no interest in that. That, more than anything, told me the game was DOA. Plus, Ignoring the very customers you want to buy your product paints a very arrogant picture coming from a new development studio. It's hard to for me to sympathize due to that, as well.

Yep. We’re in an era where studios are more interested in making games that validate themselves, rather than making something that appeals to actual consumers. Dragon Age Veilguard being a prime example of that.

If these games keep flopping changes will happen fast. 2024 may very well end up being the tipping point.

 

[manfestival]

me too

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

 

[laynelane]

Went and watched the video. She makes a lot of great observations and backs them up with her experiences in the field. Thanks for posting the video. Gave it a like and comment and will check out her other stuff.

 

[Sooner]

I'm not going to be watching this video, so would you mind sharing if that 250 million number has been verified in any way?

No, it wasn't.

 

[Holammer]

Watched a couple of Laura's videos and she's really good. She's gives some intimate insight into the sausage stuffing process from the upper management perspective and she's not pulling punches when she talks about Microsoft's company culture and how gaming journalists are wined and dined to influence them into giving higher scores.
In "How Franchises Fail" she sets up an amazing ending based on everything she talked about.

 

[Raven117]

Yep. We’re in an era where studios are more interested in making games that validate themselves, rather than making something that appeals to actual consumers. Dragon Age Veilguard being a prime example of that.

If these games keep flopping changes will happen fast. 2024 may very well end up being the tipping point.

If dragon age tanks…. Then you might be right … the tipping point May have been reached.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Pulling it from the beta to rework the game would've been better than releasing it the way they did to suffer the embarassment of cancelling 2 weeks after release.
They could've legitamately said, "that due to the feedback from the beta, we are working hard to improve the game to the standards that our audience demands". Instead, they got what a lot of people are saying is the biggest Flop of All Time.

That saves them 4 weeks. Nothing else really changes. The outcome is the same.

And weren't you the one that were skeptical that the budget was even $100M much less closer to $300 as many of us have speculated it was all along.

I've been hearing north of 300 million now. This game was crazy expensive. 16 characters and 10 maps is almost Star Citizen territory. PlayStation might not survive this.

You're delusional to think that it would've been as bad as the dumpster fire that they released. For 1 thing, you wouldn't have the endless memes that have given us endless enjoyment at the games expense.

I don't know what this means.

 

[Draugoth]

The Anti DEI Culture clearly played a part (there would be at least 10-20k players if the characters were hot chicks), First Descendant is an okay game that probably only have a playerbase bacause of this:

 

[12Goblins]

watched entire video and still have no idea why it failed

isn't she making a lot of assumptions?

 

[Plague Doctor]

"Well the characters were ugly?"
"Why were they ugly? Like what about them is not appealing to the mass audience?"
"........ they just are..."

I love it. It's glorious.