Byakuya769
Member
Angry Grimace said:
Where are you getting this information?
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Law School & Lawyer GAF
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Where are you getting this information?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Because a) Texas already is already in the Top 14 because they are now tied with Georgetown in the USWNR rankings and b) if you check the metrics that USWNR uses to actually grade law schools, Texas has better statistics.Byakuya769 said:
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Angry Grimace said:
Isn't a big portion random ratings by professors? That can't be really measured can it?
EDIT: Just realized this comes off as defensive. Really don't care. Just curious. I would think gtown would be ranked lower solely due to size.
reggieandTFE
Member
RandomDancing said:
Come work at the NLRB here in Chicago. Half of the board attorneys I deal with are terrible...
Byakuya769
Member
brucewaynegretzky said:
I was just testing if he was basing it all off of US News and Reports.. which he was.
Here's a good explanation of why you should take USWNR with a tablespoon of salt.
From Brian Leiter, Professor of Law at the University of Chicago
The U.S. News Law School Rankings: A Guide for the Perplexed
Long story short: the rankings are highly manipulatable and biased by class size. Furthermore, there are many metrics used that have no demonstrative effect on educational or employment outcomes.
AstroLad said:
This too.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
This is suspiciously like the kind of games that girls like to play with their boyfriends; instead of playing it straight and telling me what you're looking for, you're "testing" people.Byakuya769 said:
We were talking about the rankings, so needless to say, I'm talking about...the rankings.
Moreover, that reasoning isn't even following the conversation; we're talking about the fact that frequently, the people that hire attorneys out of law school DO care about any rankings and the only rankings that matter are the ones put out by USWNR.
Trying to point out other metrics of judging schools is pointless because that wasn't the point of the conversation thread.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Neither were rankings in general...Angry Grimace said:
Byakuya769
Member
Angry Grimace said:
U mad.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
mingus said:
My grades were mediocre. I just went back to where I worked 1L year. They gave me way better work this year. Now I'm staying on and getting credit and I honestly feel like my input matters sometimes.... Slowly progressing....
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Yes they were, the conversation that was brought up on the last page was whether the rankings matter, I didn't mean the topic of the original post and thread title. The question was brought up how much the rankings matter.brucewaynegretzky said:
okByakuya769 said:
elrechazado
Banned
I had mediocre grades. Have a good job now but a weird path to it. Do what you like if you're going to go into law.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
elrechazao said:
I had a similar experience and I also agree with elrechazao about doing what you like.
Byakuya769
Member
Sayah said:
Don't take a December test and don't apply that late. You should be devoting as much time to that test as humanly possible. In this hyper competitive market, it's going to determine a lot of your post grad choices.
Pollux
Member
Don't let others tell ya how hard the test is, it isn't that bad. I decided in Jan. that I was going to take the test, took the Feb/March test, got a 168. The only reason I'm not going to a better school is because my undergrad GPA was a 2.67. If I had been any higher I would be going somewhere else. Also I was tied to a certain area for personal reasons.Sayah said:
The LSAT wasn't that bad.
arglebargle
Member
my girlfriend is a lawyer and i have several lawyers in my family so i follow these threads on gaf despite not being a lawyer myself. i was surprised not to see this brought up in this thread:
link
basically villanova got caught manipulating their stats and will face basically no punishment for it. seems like permission to lie.
link
basically villanova got caught manipulating their stats and will face basically no punishment for it. seems like permission to lie.
RandomDancing
Member
arglebargle said:
Ehh. Obviously it's a big deal that they lied. But from what I know from Nova students, the Dean who allowed this to happen was fired for his prostitution ring problems, then the new Dean found out about the fake numbers and took steps within days to fix the problem. Also the other two faculty members who were aware of the fake data were let go as soon as it was discovered. I think if more faculty knew about it, they should be punished. But punishing the school when supposedly all the guilty parties have already been dealt with? Kinda seems a bit much. Also considering I've heard rumors that inflating numbers is more of a common practice than students know.
arglebargle
Member
RandomDancing said:
the fact that inflating numbers is a more common practice than anyone is willing to admit is part of why i brought up the article. i havent looked at this stuff that closely, but my impression is that schools can already be pretty brazen about this (i heard that some school employed a handful of their graduates for a few months solely to bump up the employment stats) and this just seems to give them license to continue or even push the envelope further. im not sure what the punishment should be, since losing their accreditation would impact students who arent at fault, but it seems like the aba should have made clear this can not happen.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
arglebargle said:
It's funny I was on the wait list at Villanova (I got my MA there), but I decided to go elsewhere. Seems like that paid a dividend, though honestly I doubt most employers even care, unless you did something.
Byakuya769
Member
zmoney said:
So instead of listening to someone who says "work hard and treat it as important", he should listen to someone that says "duuuuude, it's not that bad. I just rolled out of bed and aced it." My advice could potentially waste his time. Your advice could lead to failure.
But ok.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
I have a friend who has been talking about going to law school since high school. We both went to community college out of high school and now attend the same state university.
He did well enough in high school and really well in community college, but he didn't react too well to the freedom of moving away from home. Spends a majority of his time high playing video games or drunk making an ass of himself, has close to a C average, and constantly bitches about how tired he is of school. He also switched his degree from some respectable sounding business degree that I forget to Human Resources, which sounds to me like probably leads to a job at Best Buy (though I could be wrong).
I've tried to tell a couple times that he should get his act together if he wants to go to law school, but he doesn't want to hear it. Any attempt to point out that he's not setting himself is met with the typical "You're just being judgmental, I live the way I want and it's no worse than anyone else" stoner bullshit. Pretty hard to watch, since the idea I've gotten looking at the threads about law school year, it's hyper-competitive and you pretty much either work your ass off and get into an awesome school or don't bother.
Anyway, I'm majoring in Economics with a minor in Sociology and a weird degree in Behavioral Science my college offers that's basically another minor. I'm thinking about taking the LSAT, just to see what happens and keep my options open. I'm not too worried about the test, I test really well. If I end up graduating with around a 3.5, would it be worth it to check out law school or is my major wrong for that?
He did well enough in high school and really well in community college, but he didn't react too well to the freedom of moving away from home. Spends a majority of his time high playing video games or drunk making an ass of himself, has close to a C average, and constantly bitches about how tired he is of school. He also switched his degree from some respectable sounding business degree that I forget to Human Resources, which sounds to me like probably leads to a job at Best Buy (though I could be wrong).
I've tried to tell a couple times that he should get his act together if he wants to go to law school, but he doesn't want to hear it. Any attempt to point out that he's not setting himself is met with the typical "You're just being judgmental, I live the way I want and it's no worse than anyone else" stoner bullshit. Pretty hard to watch, since the idea I've gotten looking at the threads about law school year, it's hyper-competitive and you pretty much either work your ass off and get into an awesome school or don't bother.
Anyway, I'm majoring in Economics with a minor in Sociology and a weird degree in Behavioral Science my college offers that's basically another minor. I'm thinking about taking the LSAT, just to see what happens and keep my options open. I'm not too worried about the test, I test really well. If I end up graduating with around a 3.5, would it be worth it to check out law school or is my major wrong for that?
Pollux
Member
I'm not saying he shouldn't try on it, I'm just saying that it isn't rocket science. The test itself is common sense. I also took an LSAT class through Princeton Review, I highly recommend it. My point is that if after 3 months of intense studying you're not ready for it, you're not going to be ready for it after 6-9 months of intense studying.Byakuya769 said:
It's all about repetition. If you give yourself a different test 3-4 times a week then you'll be fine once your actual test rolls around.
Byakuya769
Member
zmoney said:
Ok, we agree then. I didn't get that feeling from your previous posts. I still believe a December test is much too late for a first attempt though. Puts them behind the 8-ball.
Suburban_Nooblet
Banned
My step mom works with attorneys. They both studies at Indiana University and practice some sort of real estate law.... They love their jobs and make good money. (if that helps)
dr3upmushroom
Banned
I'm right in thinking that if you go about it the right way, it's basically "Get into a top school or don't bother," right? Would my major impact me getting into a top school?zmoney said:
Also, I feel stupid even asking this since the current talk is all about how ridiculously expensive law school is, but what kind of scholarships can you get going into law school? If I do really well on the LSAT would there be a chance of colleges seeking me out to attend their school and possibly giving a scholarship, or would I pretty much be doomed to pay for everything out of pocket (with loans) if I went the law school route?
Pollux
Member
Oh definitely. My point was that it wasn't too late to apply thats all. I don't want anyone to think you can register a week beforehand and be good to go.Byakuya769 said:
I was also just saying that if he does wait it's not the end of the world, but I WOULD NOT recommend it. I only did because I had this idea that I wanted to be a foreign service officer and a masters in International Relations would be a good idea.
Well that was a terrible idea, and after talking to a prof. who was in the CIA and another who was a career FSO I decided to go back to my original idea of law school, fearing it would be too late. (Switched to FSO after blowing my Achilles and being dis-enrolled from ROTC)
Hopefully I can transfer into a higher school after first year, but if not it's still fine b/c my school has a very strong presence in the local market, and this is where I would like to stay.
But yea, Dec. is too late for someone who is already planning on going to law school.
Pollux
Member
First of all the idea that you need to go to a T14 school is bogus. If you go to a strong regional school then you'll be fine. But if you want BigLaw then you need to go to a big name school. You can go to a smaller school and still get a job at a small to medium sized firm. (source: friends who just graduated from a small school)dr3upmushroom said:
As for scholarships it really depends on the school. But they are def. available. My friend is going for a full ride, had a 3.0 form a good Undergrad school, and a 160 on the LSAT.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
I have a law degree. Yup. There it is. I think. That could be a D&D module. Not sure.
Wait, yeah, my law school diploma is under the D&D module.
Wait, yeah, my law school diploma is under the D&D module.
What type of tax law do you specialize in and how has that enabled your traveling?Para bailar La Bomba said:
I've been studying about an hour a day for 5 months now and I'm still making small improvements every week or two. I think it's more productive this way than cramming. Your brain needs time to digest the patterns.zmoney said:
Mr. Blonde
Member
I thought about law school before I realized there are other options for post graduate study besides law school, med school, and b school.
Unless you've wanted to be a lawyer all your life and don't care about money, don't go. That's my advice.
By the way, the biglaw bubble has burst and will never recover. (Not that it's some great thing to be a slave to biglaw partners while you get paid $150k for $1MM worth of work). Lots of students at top schools(even top six like NYU) are struggling to find jobs to pay off their debts. Before 2008, going to a top 14 school meant a better than coin flip chance at biglaw. Like astrolad has said many times, the further you go down, the harder it gets to get the job you want. If you're considering going to a school that isn't in the top six and you have to take out more than $50K in loans(for all 3 years combined, not $50k per year) you would be making a very poor financial decision unless your dad or uncle is a biglaw partner.
When kids in the top 14 can't get biglaw, they go for the next tier of jobs, and as a result even non big law jobs become extremely competitive. Also, there is no such thing as "midlaw." The distribution of law salaries is bi-modal, with modes at around 40k and 160k.
WRT to the LSAT, the best thing to do is to get the powerscore books for whatever sections you don't already feel comfortable in. Hell, get all 3 books and read them cover to cover, and then take official preptests everyday for six weeks leading up to the test. That would be the best way to maximize your potential score. Oh, and get plenty of sleep too; all the LSAT dates are for 8am except for the June one which is at noon. I got a really good lsat score but took it on 3 hours of sleep and was pissed that I got a couple points lower than what I really thought I would get.
Schools give plenty of merit scholarships based on how strong of an applicant you are, yes. LSAT and GPA are the most important things, but other things like undergrad prestige apply too, and don't forget to apply as early as possible. Pretty much every school has rolling admissions and gives preference to early applicants, but that doesn't mean you have to apply early decision. Just get the apps done and complete by Halloween, thanksgiving at the latest.
Re:UT vs GULC: Texas is a very good school if you want to stay in Texas. Georgetown is a school that pretty much admits based on numbers, has a million students, and probably has a lot of unemployed grads.
Unless you've wanted to be a lawyer all your life and don't care about money, don't go. That's my advice.
By the way, the biglaw bubble has burst and will never recover. (Not that it's some great thing to be a slave to biglaw partners while you get paid $150k for $1MM worth of work). Lots of students at top schools(even top six like NYU) are struggling to find jobs to pay off their debts. Before 2008, going to a top 14 school meant a better than coin flip chance at biglaw. Like astrolad has said many times, the further you go down, the harder it gets to get the job you want. If you're considering going to a school that isn't in the top six and you have to take out more than $50K in loans(for all 3 years combined, not $50k per year) you would be making a very poor financial decision unless your dad or uncle is a biglaw partner.
When kids in the top 14 can't get biglaw, they go for the next tier of jobs, and as a result even non big law jobs become extremely competitive. Also, there is no such thing as "midlaw." The distribution of law salaries is bi-modal, with modes at around 40k and 160k.
WRT to the LSAT, the best thing to do is to get the powerscore books for whatever sections you don't already feel comfortable in. Hell, get all 3 books and read them cover to cover, and then take official preptests everyday for six weeks leading up to the test. That would be the best way to maximize your potential score. Oh, and get plenty of sleep too; all the LSAT dates are for 8am except for the June one which is at noon. I got a really good lsat score but took it on 3 hours of sleep and was pissed that I got a couple points lower than what I really thought I would get.
Schools give plenty of merit scholarships based on how strong of an applicant you are, yes. LSAT and GPA are the most important things, but other things like undergrad prestige apply too, and don't forget to apply as early as possible. Pretty much every school has rolling admissions and gives preference to early applicants, but that doesn't mean you have to apply early decision. Just get the apps done and complete by Halloween, thanksgiving at the latest.
Re:UT vs GULC: Texas is a very good school if you want to stay in Texas. Georgetown is a school that pretty much admits based on numbers, has a million students, and probably has a lot of unemployed grads.
The only awesome thing that came out of lawschool was meeting my fiancee. Other than that fuck law school. Six figure debt and no job (and one of my lenders refused to even grant me a deferment so I've been paying them right after graduation). I was doing just fine working full time after college but my stupid ass let my parents troll me into going to lawschool.
LOL I agree with too much of this.genjiZERO said:
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
commish said:
This.
No one likes K - JD kids.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Ulairi said:
I started law school when I was 28. I think I was a older than the median, but seriously, the young kids who come straight out of undergrad. You will destroy those punk ass, uppity snots who have no idea how the real world works.
The real world has forged you, has tested you, and has honed you to the state of being able to easily slice through the soft, naive underbelly of those who haven't a clue of what its like to be an adult.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
ChiTownBuffalo said:
1.) Ouch.
2.) This is somewhat true. I've seen it go both ways. I'm honestly impressed by some of the older people in my class who have really cool experiences that make them genuinely better informed. However, the other group is the people who assume their experience makes anyone who disagrees with them wrong, despite having absolutely no relevance to the topic at hand. These people are idiots.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
brucewaynegretzky said:
Yeah, I think I had an adverse reaction to something that happened to me in law school where an 22 year old trixie said that I didn't understand because the world had "pass me by" at the age of 28.
Seraphinianus
Banned
ChiTownBuffalo said:
fucking lincoln park bitches/chicago law school chicks
edit: on topic: i hate law school and nobody should go.
i mean, even when I applied 2 and a half years ago, the entire world was saying "don't go" and now it's even worse. I've found it's impossible to tell undergrads this though and I remember how it was: majored in something useless, everyone is telling you to rush and get into a full on career, and you feel like you *have* to go.
But you don't *have* to go. Working at starbucks while figuring out something on the side would be more worthwhile at this point.
I have a handful of friends who have now passed the bar and are officially "lawyers". Unfortunately, not one of them is practicing the kind of law they want to be or thought they would be. One however, is making in the high six figures, so he's doing pretty, pretty, pretty well.
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