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[EviLore]

Prop 22 passed: Same rides, new driver benefits

Millions of people voted for Prop 22 to redefine what independent work looks like for drivers. Now that it has passed, we will be able to give drivers the new benefits they want and keep rideshare available for people around the state.

www.lyft.com

"
At 11:59PM PT today our rideshare operations in California will be suspended. This is not something we wanted to do, as we know millions of Californians depend on Lyft for daily, essential trips. We’re personally reaching out to riders and drivers to share more about why this is happening, what you can do about it, and to provide some transportation alternatives.


Why this is happening

For multiple years, we’ve been advocating for a path to offer benefits to drivers who use the Lyft platform — including a minimum earnings guarantee and a healthcare subsidy — while maintaining the flexibility and control that independent contractors enjoy. This is something drivers have told us over and over again that they want.


Instead, what Sacramento politicians are pushing is an employment model that 4 out of 5 drivers don’t support. This change would also necessitate an overhaul of the entire business model — it’s not a switch that can be flipped overnight.


In this new model that politicians are pushing:

• Passengers would experience reduced service, especially in suburban and rural areas
  
  
• 80% of drivers would lose work and the rest would have scheduled shifts, and capped hourly earnings.
  
  
• Lower-income riders trying to make it to essential jobs and medical appointments would be faced with unaffordable prices (38% of Lyft rides in California begin or end in low-income areas that have few transit options already).

What we’re doing

We don’t want to suspend operations. We are going to keep up the fight for a benefits model that works for all drivers and our riders. We’ve spent hundreds of hours meeting with policymakers and labor leaders to craft an alternative proposal for drivers that includes a minimum earnings guarantee, mileage reimbursement, a health care subsidy, and occupational accident insurance, without the negative consequences.





What you can do

Your voice can help. A ballot measure this November, Prop 22, proposes the necessary changes to give drivers benefits and flexibility, while maintaining the rideshare model that helps you get where you need to go. We believe voters should decide. Please sign up to help today.
"

 

[Robot Carnival]

this is the kinda issue that I'm not sure about. on one hand, I do feel companies like Lyft and Uber are exploiting people. but on the other, a lot of folks do these work because of the flexibility and tips. I know a couple old co-workers who do these works because of that reason. hopefully there is a decent solution soon.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

lol

 

[Taxexemption]

this is the kinda issue that I'm not sure about. on one hand, I do feel companies like Lyft and Uber are exploiting people. but on the other, a lot of folks do these work because of the flexibility and tips. I know a couple old co-workers who do these works because of that reason. hopefully there is a decent solution soon.

What we need is across the board rules. The way they use contractors is ridiculous, they should be classified as employees. If lyft drivers can be contractors why not Wal-Mart or Amazon employees? Why not everyone? An employer should not be able to get around worker protections by saying that low skilled workers are contractors rather than employees.


Personally I think employers should not be responsible for health insurance or a bunch of the other things that cause employers to want to classify their employees as contractors, but as long as we have these rules everyone should have to abide by them in a uniform way.

 

[frostyxc]

California is awesome, you guys.

 

[TaySan]

Uber and Lyft have unsustainable business models that rely on an easily exploitable labor force and skirting around regulations. But it's a shame people that rely on this work are going to lose jobs during times of crisis. But this only highlights how important it is to have social safety nets in this country.

 

[EviLore]

Uber and Lyft have unsustainable business models that rely on an easily exploitable labor force and skirting around regulations. But it's a shame people that rely on this work are going to lose jobs during times of crisis. But this only highlights how important it is to have social safety nets in this country.

Legislate always millions of jobs during a crisis —-> legislate socialism on the basis of joblessness.

Winning hearts and minds daily.

 

[teezzy]

Dont Uber and Lyft not turn profits yet? Idk how, but I swear to Christ I read that somewhere

Like they're banking on the long term.

 

[TaySan]

Dont Uber and Lyft not turn profits yet? Idk how, but I swear to Christ I read that somewhere

Like they're banking on the long term.

Uber doesn't make any money off of Drivers and is basically buying time until an autonomous driver-free service future arrives.

 

[LoV]

Same liberal politicians taking away jobs are the ones that want to start giving away free money. These people are mentally ill.

 

[oagboghi2]

Uber and Lyft have unsustainable business models that rely on an easily exploitable labor force and skirting around regulations. But it's a shame people that rely on this work are going to lose jobs during times of crisis. But this only highlights how important it is to have social safety nets in this country.

No they don't. The buisness model is fine. People like you feel the need to regulate every industry under the sun, and magnify every small problem to justify your next bullshit government project.

All Uber did was realize everything a dispatcher was essential for could be replaced by a well designed app. That's it.

 

[oagboghi2]

Uber doesn't make any money off of Drivers and is basically buying time until an autonomous driver-free service future arrives.

I thought you cared about the workers? Now you are worried about the corporate profits Uber brings in?

 

[TaySan]

I thought you cared about the workers? Now you are worried about the corporate profits Uber brings in?

I do? Don't you see why something like that might be a problem for Uber workers? Especially with no employee protections? No safety nets? Tough shit I guess once they don't need you anymore. If they even survive that long.

 

[kiunchbb]

What we need is across the board rules. The way they use contractors is ridiculous, they should be classified as employees. If lyft drivers can be contractors why not Wal-Mart or Amazon employees? Why not everyone? An employer should not be able to get around worker protections by saying that low skilled workers are contractors rather than employees.


Personally I think employers should not be responsible for health insurance or a bunch of the other things that cause employers to want to classify their employees as contractors, but as long as we have these rules everyone should have to abide by them in a uniform way.

Big company hire full time contractors all the times. As in why Walmart don't hire all contractors, it is because turnover and retraining is expensive. Can you imagine a customer needing help in the store, but there are no contractor available at the moment?

Walmart has incentives to keep and promote high quality employees. Having a polite employee that know the locations of all their products greatly benefit the store, it is not something you can expect from a contractor that come and go between different jobs. You called them low skilled, but having someone well trained permanent employee will greatly improved your shopping experience.

Lyft on the other hand don't need permanent drivers, and no Lyft driver want this to be their career path, the reason is obvious.

 

[PSlayer]

Uber doesn't make any money off of Drivers and is basically buying time until an autonomous driver-free service future arrives.

Yep this is pretty much their business model: Build a brand now and profit once the robots take over.

 

[oagboghi2]

I do? Don't you see why something like that might be a problem for Uber workers? Especially with no employee protections? No safety nets? Tough shit I guess once they don't need you anymore.

No, why don't you explain to us why independent contractors should worry about the profitability of Uber, TaySan .

And why, if this concerns you that much, you want the problem worse by forcing these companies to change their buisness model against their will.

 

[John Day]

I always took these things as “gigs” (hey i have the morning free, let me make some bucks on the side). Wasn’t that the intention? I mean, people themselves made this a full time thing on their own, so i kinda never got the “why” it had to be put in control.

 

[Taxexemption]

Big company hire full time contractors all the times. As in why Walmart don't hire all contractors, it is because turnover and retraining is expensive. Can you imagine a customer needing help in the store, but there are no contractor available at the moment?

Walmart has incentives to keep and promote high quality employees. Having a polite employee that know the locations of all their products greatly benefit the store, it is not something you can expect from a contractor that come and go between different jobs. You called them low skilled, but having someone well trained permanent employee will greatly improved your shopping experience.

Lyft on the other hand don't need permanent drivers, and no Lyft driver want this to be their career path, the reason is obvious.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Lyft hires employees as contractors to avoid having to pay for medical insurance, and to avoid minimum wage, and overtime laws.


Walmart probably would hire their employees as contractors but it's more clearly against the rules. The tests for whether someone can be a contractor instead of an employee have to do with the level of control the employer exercises over the worker. Walmart clearly fails these tests and lyft probably does as well.


I have shopped at wal mart for a long time. They don't care about their employees and would treat them worse if they could. They run through them like toilet paper.


When I worked at target they made virtually all employees part time working less than 30 hours a week so they would not have to give them insurance, we were threatened that if we stayed clocked in for any reason for more than 29 hours in a week we would be immediately fired.



This whole business with making employees contractors is about making it so they don't have to give employees health insurance and other benefits mandated by law.

Edit: https://www.calchamber.com/california-labor-law/independent-contractor

 

[oagboghi2]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Lyft hires employees as contractors to avoid having to pay for medical insurance, and to avoid minimum wage, and overtime laws.

Lyft is not a cab company. You aren't applying for Lyft when you download their app.

Walmart probably would hire their employees as contractors but it's more clearly against the rules. The tests for whether someone can be a contractor instead of an employee have to do with the level of control the employer exercises over the worker. Walmart clearly fails these tests and lyft probably does as well.

Lyft wouldn't fail it all. That's why they have been to successful operate in 50 states until now.

When I worked at target they made virtually all employees part time working less than 30 hours a week so they would not have to give them insurance, we were threatened that if we stayed clocked in for any reason for more than 29 hours in a week we would be immediately fired.

Oh the joys of being an employee.

This whole business with making employees contractors is about making it so they don't have to give employees health insurance and other benefits mandated by law.

Edit: https://www.calchamber.com/california-labor-law/independent-contractor

Whether or not this is true is irrelevant to whether or not they are employees. Uber drivers do not have their schedule controlled by Uber, their clientele or their take their home pay.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Big company hire full time contractors all the times. As in why Walmart don't hire all contractors, it is because turnover and retraining is expensive. Can you imagine a customer needing help in the store, but there are no contractor available at the moment?

Walmart has incentives to keep and promote high quality employees. Having a polite employee that know the locations of all their products greatly benefit the store, it is not something you can expect from a contractor that come and go between different jobs. You called them low skilled, but having someone well trained permanent employee will greatly improved your shopping experience.

Lyft on the other hand don't need permanent drivers, and no Lyft driver want this to be their career path, the reason is obvious.

This just reads as someone that is shilling Walmart, of all places over having quality employees.

lol

 

[Hari Seldon]

Uber doesn't make any money off of Drivers and is basically buying time until an autonomous driver-free service future arrives.

Incorrect. They are profitable on the driving. They are just taking the profits and reinvesting them into winning the delivery market and a lesser amount into autonomy.

 

[BigBooper]

It's a no brainer this is bad. The ride share companies do not make enough money to hire the drivers as employees. If they are forced to, of course their jobs will have to go.

So who won in this decision? The drivers who no longer have that income? The company that is losing all that business? The state and local governments that lose the tax money? The passengers who now have to take public transportation or buy a car?

Only the regressive beurocrats that want to expand government tendrils win.

 

[Sub_Level]

I always took these things as “gigs” (hey i have the morning free, let me make some bucks on the side). Wasn’t that the intention? I mean, people themselves made this a full time thing on their own, so i kinda never got the “why” it had to be put in control.

Yeah and burger flipper positions are supposed to be for 17-19 year olds getting their feet wet in the job market. But often we instead see 40 year old Rosalinda is actually the one at the fryer. Life is messy.

I think California messed up by not taking them up on their proposed compromise. But make no mistake, Uber treating drivers as contractors is not for the benefit of the driver.

 

[Taxexemption]

Lyft is not a cab company. You aren't applying for Lyft when you download their app.


Lyft wouldn't fail it all. That's why they have been to successful operate in 50 states until now.




Oh the joys of being an employee.



Whether or not this is true is irrelevant to whether or not they are employees. Uber drivers do not have their schedule controlled by Uber, their clientele or their take their home pay.

The test is not as simple as controlling their schedules. From my perspective they essentially are a high tech cab company and should have to abide by the same regulations. I'm against lyft for the same reason I'm against illegal immigration, if we are to enforce labor laws we need one minimum legal standard for employment and anything else should be punished severely. You don't just get to go "were not a cab company we are a tech or communication company therefore we don't need to abide by the regs of cab companies, also we have employees not contractors so we don't need to pay attention to most of employment law or pay payroll taxes on our drivers or give them health insurance."


Even under the previous rules for California everyone I have talked to that has any knowledge of this area of the law thought that lyft and uber are most likely in violation of the law, and that if it ever went to court they would lose.


Much of what they are doing is probably illegal in many of those other states under their state law, but some states like jobs and might let it go on anyways or at least be slow to regulate because they don't want the political nightmare that regulating them would be in a smaller state, especially one full of Republicans.

 

[shoplifter]

If only they’d apply the same rules to WWE

 

[John Day]

Yeah and burger flipper positions are supposed to be for 17-19 year olds getting their feet wet in the job market. But often we instead see 40 year old Rosalinda is actually the one at the fryer. Life is messy.

I think California messed up by not taking them up on their proposed compromise. But make no mistake, Uber treating drivers as contractors is not for the benefit of the driver.

I agree with you, really.

I say it because here in Puerto Rico you don’t pretty much hear this debate about gig industries and it’s contractors/employees. I don’t disregard it, i agree with you CA should have compromised too.

 

[SpartanN92]

One time at work I saw a coworker deny an expired discount to a customer. Where I work we can apply a 20% discount on pretty much any item at our discretion, so even with the coupon being expired she still could have done the discount. The customer decides not to purchase the item and shop elsewhere. My coworker looked at me afterwards so proud of herself "I just saved the company $20" and I said "No you moron you just lost the company $50 in profit and god knows how much future business."

Gavin Newsome and that coworker are cut from the same cloth.

 

[Horatius]

the fixation on whether the company really wants contractor status for the drivers because it's good for the drivers is beside the point: they aren't contractors for the benefit of the drivers, they are contractors to make the business viable at all, period. there is no version of these services that can run the way california's government is pretending it wants them to. they simply would not exist. quite literally outlawing a massively popular net good for society because of a) ideology for the true believers, b) cronyism and attempting to protect the status quo of taxis etc. for the cynical leeches who profiteer from government

california's politicians are economically illiterate ideologues, and they are actively strangling new forms of capital generation and creativity by doing this. the irony is, of course, that those same ideologues are supported precisely by the kind of people who developed uber.

 

[Arkam]

I love the stupidity of government and the SJWs who think they are helping people with moves like this. I do however feel bad for the tens of thousands who just got fucked by this action. I am sure they are thankful for all those "allies" who knew best.

 

[quickwhips]

Don’t taxis do the same thing?

 

[daveonezero]

That sucks. Contractor status is good for individuals too. I used to have a pretty basic full time gig. I drove Lyft at night and on weekends to make extra money. Then I drove lyft while I transisioned to a new industry as an independent contractor. I work full time as a contractor now. Without Lyft i wouldn't be doing what I am now.

Don’t taxis do the same thing?

most are probably subsidized by tax money in some way.

 

[quickwhips]

I meant don’t taxis work as contractors?

 

[Sakura Doritos]

this is the kinda issue that I'm not sure about. on one hand, I do feel companies like Lyft and Uber are exploiting people. but on the other, a lot of folks do these work because of the flexibility and tips. I know a couple old co-workers who do these works because of that reason. hopefully there is a decent solution soon.

Exploiting people that sign up to the gig For pay and people who willingly pay the asking rate. Sounds like a fine transaction to me. Why do Lyft drivers feel they deserve a benefits package? Maybe they shouldn’t work for Lyft and start their own service? I’m sure the cost of start up would be less than the cost of personal insurance..... oh wait.

 

[Blade2.0]

I meant don’t taxis work as contractors?

Pretty sure they get full benefits and most are even unionized.

National Taxi Workers' Alliance - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

So no wonder they don't want to Uber to become the dominant force.

Edit: reading through it looks like I'm wrong. Most are independent and the union doesn't seem to have any collective bargaining power

 

[belmarduk]

Wow. What a shitty company. I'll make sure not to use them again.

 

[lock2k]

Dream of Californication.

 

[Mr Nash]

I always figured that companies like Uber and Lyft were hoping that reliable self-driving cars would come sooner than later and the human drivers were just a stop gab until that time.

 

[cryptoadam]

Were Uber and Lyft drivers demanding this? Sounds like government making regulations that is making business difficult and something no one is asking for.

These companies use cheap labor but last stuff I heard about Uber was them fighting with Taxis. Drivers wanted to drive more. Maybe I missed it when Uber drivers all went on strike demanding health care and benefits.

 

[nyr88nyg]

Uber doesn't make any money off of Drivers and is basically buying time until an autonomous driver-free service future arrives.

How is that possible? They take such a large cut.

 

[oagboghi2]

The test is not as simple as controlling their schedules. From my perspective they essentially are a high tech cab company and should have to abide by the same regulations. I'm against lyft for the same reason I'm against illegal immigration, if we are to enforce labor laws we need one minimum legal standard for employment and anything else should be punished severely. You don't just get to go "were not a cab company we are a tech or communication company therefore we don't need to abide by the regs of cab companies, also we have employees not contractors so we don't need to pay attention to most of employment law or pay payroll taxes on our drivers or give them health insurance."


Even under the previous rules for California everyone I have talked to that has any knowledge of this area of the law thought that lyft and uber are most likely in violation of the law, and that if it ever went to court they would lose.


Much of what they are doing is probably illegal in many of those other states under their state law, but some states like jobs and might let it go on anyways or at least be slow to regulate because they don't want the political nightmare that regulating them would be in a smaller state, especially one full of Republicans.

How are they a cab company? They don't hire dispatchers, they don't own the cars, they don't operate a fleet, they don't perform maintenance or own garages. They do maintenance on a fucking app. They employ software engineers.

When you "work" as a Uber driver, all your doing is waiting in a queue as a app slots you in a stack for someone to pick-up. This law pretty much eliminates all independent workers in California.

Uber changed the market, and this is a aggressive attempt to try to force an outdated model onto something that is newer, and according to customers so far, much better.

 

[Elcid]

California needs to break away already and leave the rest of the country the hell alone.

 

[Havoc2049]

California is a dumpster fire. Screw the Taxi lobby in California. It always pisses me off in San Diego when the Trolley goes right past the frikin’ airport without stoping, forcing people to take a cab to the airport, all because of the damn taxi lobby.

 

[Arkam]

Wow. What a shitty company. I'll make sure not to use them again.

Who is? And why?

 

[Sakura Doritos]

Judge says nope. Crisis averted for now.

 

[llien]

Uber and Lyft have unsustainable business models that rely on an easily exploitable labor force and skirting around regulations.

Why is it unsustainable though?
It systems bring versatility that classic taxi's do not have.
It also adds volatile supply/demand dynamics on the driver side.

 

[Sakura Doritos]

I do? Don't you see why something like that might be a problem for Uber workers? Especially with no employee protections? No safety nets? Tough shit I guess once they don't need you anymore. If they even survive that long.

Removing jobs is not helping workers. It seems that you only care about unsustainable business practices that need government interventionism such as lofty contracts and regulations that that stifle competition. Those are the right kind of workers to you.

Fuck the individuals’s right to choose. Fuck an employees ability to compete. And fuck the service seeker that wants the best price That is all I hear after transforming your weasel words.

 

[daveonezero]

I think its sick that people are actually cheering as a service who provided a great service to the customer and either additional or full income to drivers is now gone in california.

What are those people supposed to do now who lost their income? Now they not only don't have benefits but don't have money to feed themselves.

 

[Sakura]

No they don't. The buisness model is fine. People like you feel the need to regulate every industry under the sun, and magnify every small problem to justify your next bullshit government project.

All Uber did was realize everything a dispatcher was essential for could be replaced by a well designed app. That's it.

Don't Uber and Lyft lose money every year? How is the business model fine?

 

[Ten_Fold]

California is ran by dumb people, anyways I don’t see nothing wrong with them using them as contractors, it’s good for people who goes to college and to make some money on the side. Also a decent income for people pulling 40hrs. I can see the service changing once self-driving cars are more of a thing.

 

[Sakura Doritos]

Don't Uber and Lyft lose money every year? How is the business model fine?

That is the cost of disrupting a market that has been predominantly institutionalized by government contracts, unions and lack of competition.