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[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Y'all are making good points hard to find faults but imma try anyway. Jace could have gotten there because he got info on Vraska's whereabouts or something too.

I imagine they'll have the native peoples knock he conquistadors flat on their ass. That avoids most of the potential controversy.

Rivals was originally conquest of power. Neither implies any sort of victory.

I could see it be like PoC4 where the spanish marched in destroyed the fountain of youth and buggered off

 

[charlequin]

Some quick notes on the story podcast:

• No other Gatewatch members show up here.
• This set is picking up all the Ravnica story threads about Vraska from the past few years, including her travel to a mysterious destination (probably here.) It's gonna play off her backstory of being forced to be an assassin and will show us someone who "believes in her talents."
• As mentioned, Ixalan is a continent, not a plane, which definitely gives some potential juice to theories about where it really is.
• Despite leveraging the visual tropes they purposely steered away from a conquest story. The vampires come from another continent but not to take over, but rather to steal a specific Macguffin. They rule their own continent after a big war and they primarily drink the blood of "sinners."
• The item in question is called the "Immortal Sun," and the vampires think it was stolen from their continent; it's supposed to be in the lost Golden City, and the merfolk have a tradition that says everyone needs to be kept from finding it.
• The Sun Empire and merfolk faction draw on the Inca/Aztec historical conflict for inspiration, and they're purposely set up to be the equals of the foreign forces. They're also not doing a "make a place blow it up" story like they did with Amonkhet.
• The pirates are the descendants of refugees from the places conquered by the vampires back across the ocean.

Otaria didn't exist on Dominaria at all, even in hinted form, until WotC decided it did. We even had world maps of Dominaria and they still tacked Otaria on.

To be specific, there were a number of incomplete maps released at various points. The Continuity team at the time had a globe they used as reference, which Pete Venters mentioned on quite a few occasions back in the day, and my understanding is that Otaria as a name and a shape on a map was on that globe -- but that map has never been released to the public (and both Venters and Brady Dommermuth specifically said there were areas completely unseen) so there's still potentially a ton of stuff we don't know. A given place turning out to be a previously-unknown part of Dominaria is a very viable twist.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

I was just thinking that this would be a hot way to segway into an actual Weatherlight vehicle card, then someone suggested that the treasure Vraska is looking for could be the Weatherlight itself. Which would be perfect. Why else would she need an extarplanar compass? To find something that's (mostly) not from the plane. Orazca is just the B plot folks!

 

[Imperfected]

A+ title on this reddit post

Uh... what?

He does realize that Legendary is a mechanically meaningful restriction in deck building, right? And that without the "rules baggage" the text "Legendary" has absolutely no reason to exist?

I'm so confused.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Y'all are making good points hard to find faults but imma try anyway. Jace could have gotten there because he got info on Vraska's whereabouts or something too.

Rivals was originally conquest of power. Neither implies any sort of victory.

I could see it be like PoC4 where the spanish marched in destroyed the fountain of youth and buggered off

I mean, just having the natives strong enough to rebuff the conquistadors dodges the genocide handling, if nothing else.

Besides, making them literal bloodsucking fanatics puts them in pretty good thematic standing already

 

[HK-47]

Luckily he will probably never be able to implement such a stupid rule change.

 

[Justin]

Uh... what?

He does realize that Legendary is a mechanically meaningful restriction in deck building, right? And that without the "rules baggage" the text "Legendary" has absolutely no reason to exist?

I'm so confused.

He said he just prefers to not have the extra rules baggage but also said it is a fight he will never win.

 

[charlequin]

Rivals was originally conquest of power. Neither implies any sort of victory.

They actually stated pretty clearly that the set names from that survey were made-up twists on the real ones so if it got out the real names wouldn't be leaked, not rejected attempts at names like "Warlords of Khanar."

They say outright in the story podcast that the Sun Empire can kick the vampires' ass and send them packing if they want, their conflict is all happening in terms of rival groups hunting for the city rather than the vamps attacking their cities or anything like that.

He does realize that Legendary is a mechanically meaningful restriction in deck building, right? And that without the "rules baggage" the text "Legendary" has absolutely no reason to exist?

In his ideal it would be more like Snow -- something cards can key off of like all the legends-matter stuff, but which has no game effect on its own. He dislikes the rule in its current form because it creates tension on the design side but the only way to really "work around it" is to give cards a minor power boost in exchange which is 100% a development thing.

Literally nobody else at WotC thinks this is a good idea and he admitted that since it's a much more important balance rule for PWs to not stack vs. legendary creatures that this latest change means it will really super definitely not happen now.

 

[Imperfected]

He said he just prefers to not have the extra rules baggage but also said it is a fight he will never win.

If that's what he meant, the appropriate way to say it is, "If I had my way, Legendary wouldn't exist."

Well, okay, I guess there's still a lot of Kamigawa cards that care about "Legendary" as a card-type, but I can't imagine that's what he wants out of it.

 

[kirblar]

Uh... what?

He does realize that Legendary is a mechanically meaningful restriction in deck building, right? And that without the "rules baggage" the text "Legendary" has absolutely no reason to exist?

I'm so confused.

You know how MaRo says he is a bad developer?

BELIEVE HIM WHEN HE TELLS YOU THIS.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Uh... what?

He does realize that Legendary is a mechanically meaningful restriction in deck building, right? And that without the "rules baggage" the text "Legendary" has absolutely no reason to exist?

I'm so confused.

His belief is that it doesn't make sense for legendary to be a downside, and instead it should just be a marker that other cards reference for benefits. Like "if equipped creature is legendary, it gets +2/+2". But this is a "if the game started over" thing, not something he seriously believes can happen now.

The way the legendary downside has been weared away at shows that the rest of R&D aren't a huge fan of it either.

 

[Justin]

Sorry guys it looks like you theories have already been ruined

weebos asked:
Alison said in the story podcast that Ixalan is a continent in a larger world. Is the plane it is on called Ixalan, or does it have a different name?

MaRo
She was referring to the setting of the set Ixalan. Ixalan is the name of the plane.

He could also just be covering though

 

[Justin]

Lol

I feel like having the legend rule as a downside allows you to make legendary creatures slightly stronger than you would otherwise, which leads to players getting excited about new legendary creatures a little more (as they don't think about the downside), which sells more product.

MaRo
Players are traditionally bad at telling incremental power differences. What they are much better at recognizing is when they can’t do something they want to do like cast the legendary creature in their hand.

 

[HK-47]

I don't like the change over time of less and less cards having downsides for good effects.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Sorry guys it looks like you theories have already been ruined



He could also just be covering though

MaRo makes sure never to intentionally lie; if he had to in order to answer that question he wouldn't have responded. While he does make story mistakes, I think he'd know if Ixalan was on the same plane as Dominaria.

Besides, if it really is the case that vampires conquered multiple other continents, that doesn't seem like a state they'd want to leave Dominaria in.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

They actually stated pretty clearly that the set names from that survey were made-up twists on the real ones so if it got out the real names wouldn't be leaked, not rejected attempts at names like "Warlords of Khanar."

They say outright in the story podcast that the Sun Empire can kick the vampires' ass and send them packing if they want, their conflict is all happening in terms of rival groups hunting for the city rather than the vamps attacking their cities or anything like that.

I am aware it wasn't the real name, didn't hear about the twist part, but there's a chance it relates to the theme or story.

That does sound like the spaniards in PotC4 a bit.

I mean, just having the natives strong enough to rebuff the conquistadors dodges the genocide handling, if nothing else.

Besides, making them literal bloodsucking fanatics puts them in pretty good thematic standing already

Skirting these issues bums me out a bit, it's like they are trying to stick to PG13 rating on a vg, which is probably exaclty what they are doing considering MTG has a Age 13+ indicator on some of their packaging.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I don't like the change over time of less and less cards having downsides for good effects.

What are some examples of downside cards people liked, that don't have recent equivalents?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The way the legendary downside has been weared away at shows that the rest of R&D aren't a huge fan of it either.

Or that they didn't like that people put cards in their deck nt intending to get any more use out of them than being removal.

Imagine the old legendary rule intact with phantasmal image available.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

He could also just be covering though

Ixalan is one continent on a larger world

That's literally what is said on the podcast. This is a contradiction. She also says there are other named continents. So theres obviously something going on here.

 

[Ashodin]

it's Ulgrotha. Vamps were big on that plane, and its lore has been dead for ages, so they can do what they want

 

[Keru_Shiri]

it's Ulgrotha. Vamps were big on that plane, and its lore has been dead for ages, so they can do what they want

Feroz's ban was somehow inverted so Planeswalkers can arrive but never leave.

 

[Ashodin]

Feroz's ban was somehow inverted so Planeswalkers can arrive but never leave.

That would be badass

 

[Fou-Lu]

Every new set I tell myself I'll make a return to MTG, and I always end up putting it off. I absolutely love the game, but I think not having friends to play with at the kitchen table has really killed my motivation.

 

[OnPoint]

I'll be so disappointed if it's actually not Dominaria now

 

[Justin]

I'll be so disappointed if it's actually not Dominaria now

Atleast when we get to the end of the story and it isn't we will only be 4 weeks away from actual Dominatia.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

So marketing material definitely says Ixalan is a plane, but Ixalan is also apparently the name of the continent that is featured, when there are also other continents apparently on the plane. This would be a weird story oversight that WotC doesn't usually make, Kaladesh wasn't Ghirapur, Innistrad wasn't Thraben, Amonkhet wasn't Naktamun etc. They're very consistent about their hierarchy of names when fleshing out a plane.

 

[Simply Sarah]

I mean, we know that Jace didn't end up here randomly but at this point we can't be sure if it's because this is a plane he has an association with (and, as such, there is as high chance we already know it) or because it will be revealed that someone or something planted a seed of this place on him for some reason.

I also wonder if this Immortal Sun will end up being related to prior stories in one way or another.

it's Ulgrotha. Vamps were big on that plane, and its lore has been dead for ages, so they can do what they want

If the Baron were behind the vampires (regardless of the plane this all takes place) I'd totally forgive WotC for him being AWOL in C17.

 

[Ashodin]

What if this is the immortal sun?

The baron cursed his lands with eternal night. What if this is the artifact that did it?

If it was taken, the vampires would have had to change their civilization, and likely expand to continue their existence.

Also note how all the factions are based off the sun. The Sun Empire, the Legion of Dusk (when the sun goes down), the pirates are loosely connected refugees, a red herring.

 

[charlequin]

You know how MaRo says he is a bad developer?

BELIEVE HIM WHEN HE TELLS YOU THIS.

Yeah, it's good that he makes a point of mentioning this because he really is -- not just in people's narrow idea of developers as people who cost cards and balance formats, but even in the broader sense of refining conceptual ideas into the form that best balances all the minor relevant factors.

The way the legendary downside has been weared away at shows that the rest of R&D aren't a huge fan of it either.

I don't think this is the correct read. The changes to the Legendary rule have all been about making it less disruptive when two people play the same legends in their decks; none of them have been about letting people play more of the same legend themselves.

What are some examples of downside cards people liked, that don't have recent equivalents?

The Pacts are an immediate example that comes to mind.

I also wonder if this Immortal Sun will end up being related to prior stories in one way or another.

It does read a lot like the Mirari so far.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

It does read a lot like the Mirari so far.

Dominaria? Plausible. Mirrari itself being the McGuffin this block? Magical christmas land.

 

[charlequin]

Dominaria? Plausible. Mirrari itself being the McGuffin this block? Magical christmas land.

Sorry I didn't unroll that thought all the way. The Mirari was one of a variety of probes sent out by Karn to different planes back in the day, it's theoretically possible for the story to decide to pick that thread back up.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Why would the Mirari be causing issues again or be on Ixalan? Did they ever explain why Karn crafted a Probe to bind them and in darkness yada yada

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

Sorry I didn't unroll that thought all the way. The Mirari was one of a variety of probes sent out by Karn to different planes back in the day, it's theoretically possible for the story to decide to pick that thread back up.

Oh, I was tongue in cheeking that, I'm aware of the Mirari's extraplanar travels. The Mirari itself was a busted probe, so conceivably there could be tons of them scattered across different planes. Having them bring back any amount of Miraris just feels like wishful thinking though. There's the story seed of having the Mirrans use it to beat the Phyrexians, but beyond that I don't expect much from it.

 

[bigkrev]

(sorry for a twitter link, its either that or a Facebook link)
https://twitter.com/DotEsports/status/902948756223602690

Look at this cool AR thing they did for the Yu-gi-oh world championship, and imagine how cool it would be if Magic ever tried something like this, and then laugh at how incompetent they are at technology

 

[Simply Sarah]

It does read a lot like the Mirari so far.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking as well. But it feels like it would be a bit too obvious.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

(sorry for a twitter link, its either that or a Facebook link)
https://twitter.com/DotEsports/status/902948756223602690

Look at this cool AR thing they did for the Yu-gi-oh world championship, and imagine how cool it would be if Magic ever tried something like this, and then laugh at how incompetent they are at technology

Eh before they do anything like that they should integrate widgets into twitch that let you see decklists, the players hand and hover any card on the battlefield to get a autocardanywhere effect.

And if they have to install the pokerlike tables that scan every card drawn to do so, forbid certain version of cards, alters entirely and the like, just finally commit to making MTG a real esport. Even the PTs are just amateur hour in execution.

Not even the commentators can guess the cards right or guess which expedition or judge promo some card is and watching limited is a complete bore because you're derived completely of information.

 

[Justin]

(sorry for a twitter link, its either that or a Facebook link)
https://twitter.com/DotEsports/status/902948756223602690

Look at this cool AR thing they did for the Yu-gi-oh world championship, and imagine how cool it would be if Magic ever tried something like this, and then laugh at how incompetent they are at technology

They already did a twist on this
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bq4bm3GDF-A

 

[Justin]

Eh before they do anything like that they should integrate widgets into twitch that let you see decklists, the players hand and hover any card on the battlefield to get a autocardanywhere effect.

And if they have to install the pokerlike tables that scan every card drawn to do so, forbid certain version of cards, alters entirely and the like, just finally commit to making MTG a real esport. Even the PTs are just amateur hour in execution.

Not even the commentators can guess the cards right or guess which expedition or judge promo some card is and watching limited is a complete bore because you're derived completely of information.

The GP last week actually had decklists on the side of the screen.

 

[sgjackson]

the simplest answer is just using magic digital next for the pro tour

this is assuming it's good and exhaustive, which is a much bigger assumption than it should be

 

[Crocodile]

Source

Good uncommon

 

[Angry Grimace]

I can't place or explain why but everything about Amonkhet annoys me to the point it's by far my least favorite limited format of all time, especially with Hour. Nothing in it is interesting. It's part of the reason I stopped playing and posting in here that much - I actively just don't want to play the game.

I'm not saying it's the worst or least balanced format of all time. I'm just saying I personally hate the set and its sequel set. More than Battle for Zendikar.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

the simplest answer is just using magic digital next for the pro tour

this is assuming it's good and exhaustive, which is a much bigger assumption than it should be

As much as I prefer paper magic that's a much easier to implement solution that would also make for a better overall viewer perspective. Cuts away all the awkward parts of magic, like shuffling, but would also introduce a new barrier for pro players.

The GP last week actually had decklists on the side of the screen.

I heard about that on the mtggoldfish podcast since they were using their website for the decklists and Richard scrambled to make sure everything was working right.

I wonder if they asked him or were using it w/o his permission, those things can be tricky.

 

[Neoweee]

I can't place or explain why but everything about Amonkhet annoys me to the point it's by far my least favorite limited format of all time, especially with Hour. Nothing in it is interesting. It's part of the reason I stopped playing and posting in here that much - I actively just don't want to play the game.

I'm not saying it's the worst or least balanced format of all time. I'm just saying I personally hate the set and its sequel set. More than Battle for Zendikar.

3x Amonkhet is my least favorite ever. Hour is an improvement, but not enough of one to keep me coming back.

It's just bad. I don't have high hopes for Ixalan, either, but I should hold back on judgment until we see some goddamn dinosaur vehicles.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It's not that it's specifically doing something unbalanced. It just isn't any fun which is a problem when it costs a minimum of $15 to draft it.

 

[aidan]

I can't place or explain why but everything about Amonkhet annoys me to the point it's by far my least favorite limited format of all time, especially with Hour. Nothing in it is interesting. It's part of the reason I stopped playing and posting in here that much - I actively just don't want to play the game.

I'm not saying it's the worst or least balanced format of all time. I'm just saying I personally hate the set and its sequel set. More than Battle for Zendikar.

I hear ya—though I'll extend my dislike beyond limited, and around the whole block. From a flavour, mechanics, design, art, etc. perspective, the whole thing was just a flop to me. I can't point at any one particular issue, but my excitement level for Amonkhet block, and its standard environment has sapped a lot of my engagement with the game, to the point where I've been playing and streaming the Pokemon TCG rather than MTG, lately. Probably also doesn't help that it's coming at the tail end of WotC's well-documented mishandling of Standard since the release of BFZ.

On the flip side, everything about Ixalan is working for me, and I'm just counting away the days for prerelease and already planning on drafting a lot more. I'm looking forward to being more invested in MTG again.

 

[charlequin]

the simplest answer is just using magic digital next for the pro tour

It has a name now!

At launch is certainly unlikely, but I could see them doing a major competitive event on MTG Arena a year after launch or so.

I can't place or explain why but everything about Amonkhet annoys me to the point it's by far my least favorite limited format of all time, especially with Hour.

This seems like a really divisive format, I've seen everything from a top 5 best to bottom 5 worst for Hour draft.

On the flip side, everything about Ixalan is working for me, and I'm just counting away the days for prerelease and already planning on drafting a lot more.

I just want to note again that this is exactly why WotC went from one block to two, and two blocks to three standalones. They just have a lot more margin to try different stuff if even hating a particular set and format still only means you're out of things for 3 months.

 

[Zocano]

Amonkhet and especially HOU limited ended up growing on me but I love limited a bunch so I'm not that critical of it.

 

[red13th]

I hear ya—though I'll extend my dislike beyond limited, and around the whole block. From a flavour, mechanics, design, art, etc. perspective, the whole thing was just a flop to me. I can't point at any one particular issue, but my excitement level for Amonkhet block, and its standard environment has sapped a lot of my engagement with the game, to the point where I've been playing and streaming the Pokemon TCG rather than MTG, lately. Probably also doesn't help that it's coming at the tail end of WotC's well-documented mishandling of Standard since the release of BFZ.

On the flip side, everything about Ixalan is working for me, and I'm just counting away the days for prerelease and already planning on drafting a lot more. I'm looking forward to being more invested in MTG again.

That's pretty much where I am both regarding Amonkhet (underwhelmed) and Ixalan (excited). Even though, again, Ixalan rares, at least the ones leaked, seem to be more on the underpowered side.

 

[Imperfected]

The reason there's such high variance in Amonkhet Limited is that it feels super good if you open bombs and like being beaten savagely with a giant salami if you don't.

So, you know, if your personal experience was opening a decent number of beaters and game-closers (like Sandworm Convergence) you probably enjoyed it, and if you weren't quite so lucky, well, you probably didn't have much fun trying to iceskate uphill the entire time.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Torn on Amonkhet, I found a decent amount of cards in the end to add to my EDH decks and even a new commander in Neheb the Worthy but I dislike a lot of the design of the plane and the story beats.

Didn't play much limited of either set and didn't like what I played either.