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[Laughing Banana]

Thats more Big One though as of late, everyone else usually just piles on and then some mention of the good ol days. LOL

Where is he anyways? The thread isn't the same without his scathing FFFFFFFFFFF reviews.

This is going to hurt my status as a fine bro, but I think Solanin is a pretty average example of the 20-something-in-a-state-of-crisis story that borders on being cliched at times, and I'm always surprised at how universal the acclaim is for it. Off the top of my head, the two manga I consider masterpieces are Cross Game and Monster, although I don't think either is entirely without fault.

I am always in the thought that H2 is superior than this, although I don't like the ending.

 

[curlyfriski]

Yea i think you might get some play for this.

I knew people had problems with 20th Century Boys, but Monster too? I consider Urasawa one of the two or three best authors currently working, and Monster his most essential work, even if Pluto has less flaws.

I am always in the thought that H2 is superior than this, although I don't like the ending.

I really like H2, but I have two problems with it: its a bit overlong, treading into massive shonen series territory, and the love quadrilateral was a bit awkward, with Haruka feeling more like a consolation prize than anything.

 

[TacticalFox88]

He only failed in a relative sense.

Which is still failing at the end of the day.

 

[Dresden]

This is going to hurt my status as a fine bro, but I think Solanin is a pretty average example of the 20-something-in-a-state-of-crisis story that borders on being cliched at times, and I'm always surprised at how universal the acclaim is for it. Off the top of my head, the two manga I consider masterpieces are Cross Game and Monster, although I don't think either is entirely without fault.

Monster is too long and inconsistent to be considered a masterpiece, at least for me; Pluto is just superior. As for Asano I like his stuff but I'm not in love with them. Kengo Hanazawa is the superior manga-ka here, stemming mainly from my love for that raw, four-volume masterpiece Ressentiment.

 

[Erigu]

I knew people had problems with 20th Century Boys, but Monster too?

The Fugitive aspect is okay. The Johan side, not so much.

I consider Urasawa one of the two or three best authors currently working

Oh, the pain!

 

[Infinite Justice]

Where is he anyways? The thread isn't the same without his scathing FFFFFFFFFFF reviews.

I guess his job got him? iirc he claimed to have a job that was taking his time away

I knew people had problems with 20th Century Boys, but Monster too? I consider Urasawa one of the two or three best authors currently working, and Monster his most essential work, even if Pluto has less flaws.

I personally haven't read it but their where claims of it going off the path for too long at times (though not as bad as 20th apparently). The only thing i read from him so far was Pluto and i dug it.

That isn't even true. We knew he had the Fox from chapter 1 and we knew from chapter one that his clones were a Rank S kinjutsu only he could do. I don't even get what this continued assertion that gets thrown around all the time about hard work is supposed to mean, anyways.

He had the fox but we didn't know what it did other from being a massive "kick me" sign for the other villagers.

His kage bunshin use was massive but apparently not unbelievable (at least according to Iruka, since he said he had massive potential). At the time it was apparently him just fucking around with a technique until he got it (main character bullshit) and it wasn't until way after the fact we realized what was really happening and then he finally realized.

 

[curlyfriski]

Monster is too long and inconsistent to be considered a masterpiece, at least for me; Pluto is just superior. As for Asano I like his stuff but I'm not in love with them.

I really like Pluto, but it just didn't put the hooks into me like the mysteries from Monster and 20th Century Boys did.

 

[TacticalFox88]

I haven't read Pluto or 20th Century Boys.

Tell me, which one has the bigger mind fucks?

That'll determine which one I read first.

 

[suzu]

I tried Kuroko no Basket (volume 1 and 2) recently and it was boring as fuck, so I gave up.

 

[curlyfriski]

I haven't read Pluto or 20th Century Boys.

Tell me, which one has the bigger mind fucks?

That'll determine which one I read first.

20th Century has more mindfucks, Pluto is better.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I haven't read Pluto or 20th Century Boys.

Tell me, which one has the bigger mind fucks?

That'll determine which one I read first.

More like bigger reverse mind fucks. So disappointing.

 

[survivor]

This is going to hurt my status as a fine bro, but I think Solanin is a pretty average example of the 20-something-in-a-state-of-crisis story that borders on being cliched at times, and I'm always surprised at how universal the acclaim is for it. Off the top of my head, the two manga I consider masterpieces are Cross Game and Monster, although I don't think either is entirely without fault.

I mean at least name the better Urasawa manga, Pluto

I knew people had problems with 20th Century Boys, but Monster too? I consider Urasawa one of the two or three best authors currently working, and Monster his most essential work, even if Pluto has less flaws.

Urasawa would be a top tier manga writer if his manga didn't drag on for too long and have trainwreck endings. The guy is good, but come on.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Which is still failing at the end of the day.

No it isn't. He just took longer to learn shit than Sasuke did (i.e. his "failure" to learn techniques was merely because he was too stupid to understand the concepts behind them, but he brute forced them anyways, and therefore only "fails" relative to Sasuke), who was the only real comparison.

I guess his job got him? iirc he claimed to have a job that was taking his time away




I personally haven't read it but their where claims of it going off the path for too long at times (though not as bad as 20th apparently). The only thing i read from him so far was Pluto and i dug it.





He had the fox but we didn't know what it did other from being a massive "kick me" sign for the other villagers.

His kage bunshin use was massive but apparently not unbelievable (at least according to Iruka, since he said he had massive potential). At the time it was apparently him just fucking around with a technique until he got it (main character bullshit) and it wasn't until way after the fact we realized what was really happening and then he finally realized.

No. Jiriaya told him practically at his first appearance it gave him a shit ton of chakra and he went Fox Mode literally in his first fight.

 

[Laughing Banana]

I haven't read Pluto or 20th Century Boys.

Tell me, which one has the bigger mind fucks?

That'll determine which one I read first.

Don't read 20th Century Boys.

Don't do it.

It's one of the worst streeeeeeetching mangas I have ever read. You know, when the author adds stuff just for the sake of adding stuff, even if the added stuff are just largely filler, nonsense, and withhold no value other than to just make stuff more *deep* which I mean more shitty and convoluted for the sake of convoluted.

It's like, "It's A!" but then "Oho A is B!" but then "Surprise, A is C!" and then "No no no no no A is D!" and then "D is A!" and then "Nooooo D is B after all!" and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.......................

 

[curlyfriski]

Urasawa would be a top tier manga writer if his manga didn't drag on for too long and have trainwreck endings. The guy is good, but come on.

For me it's more about having a unique style that makes really good use of manga as a medium, which is where I think Adachi and Urasawa both excel. What can I say, I would rather take an interesting trainwreck than something that's totally 'correct' but not all that interesting.

 

[Angry Grimace]

20th Century Boys biggest accomplishment is setting you up for such massive disappointment.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Don't read 20th Century Boys.

Don't do it.

It's one of the worst streeeeeeetching mangas I have ever read. You know, when the author adds stuff just for the sake of adding stuff, even if the added stuff are just largely filler, nonsense, and withhold no value other than to just make stuff more *deep* which I mean more shitty and convoluted for the sake of convoluted.

It's like, "It's A!" but then "Oho A is B!" but then "Surprise, A is C!" and then "No no no no no A is D!" and then "D is A!" and then "Nooooo D is B after all!" and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.......................

Or rather, read the first 2 parts.

The 3rd is non-canon (in my mind T__T)

 

[Bossun]

Onani Master Kurosawa 1 -End

What a strange manga, you go from laughing, to feeling pity for the MC with is one way love, then hate because he is jerk, then it becomes a classic romantic manga and you're happy again.

By the way, I totally agree with his final choice.

 

[flawfuls]

Urasawa should make simpler stories and just focus on that he does best, cheap emotional manipulation.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Onani Master Kurosawa 1 -End

What a strange manga, you go from laughing, to feeling pity for the MC with is one way love, then hate because he is jerk, then it becomes a classic romantic manga and you're happy again.

By the way, I totally agree with his final choice.

There's an epilogue (in short novel form) by the way, that takes place two years after the school trip they took in middle school. Try and find it.

 

[survivor]

For me it's more about having a unique style that makes really good use of manga as a medium, which is where I think Adachi and Urasawa both excel. What can I say, I would rather take an interesting trainwreck than something that's totally 'correct' but not all that interesting.

I always found Urasawa to be good at writing mysteries, setting up plot points left and right, building up suspense and tension, and then crushing every single build up and expectations you have of the story. I still love Pluto despite its flaws, but that's more cause I'm a sucker for anything that resembles Asimov's Laws of Robotics.

Have you read any of Asano's other manga btw? Curious what you think of his other crazier angstier manga

 

[Laughing Banana]

For me it's more about having a unique style that makes really good use of manga as a medium, which is where I think Adachi and Urasawa both excel. What can I say, I would rather take an interesting trainwreck than something that's totally 'correct' but not all that interesting.

I really like Urasawa's art, but his tendency of dragging stuff on just for the sake of appearing "deep" really annoy me sometimes.

And following on your statement, I'd rather have an interesting manga that is not also a trainwreck! ...which was what 20th Century Boys really is.

Or rather, read the first 2 parts.

The 3rd is non-canon (in my mind T__T)

If the manga stops after the big Mecha confrontation in the Tokyo Street (was it Tokyo? Too lazy to check but you know what I mean), it would be great.

Onani Master Kurosawa 1 -End

What a strange manga, you go from laughing, to feeling pity for the MC with is one way love, then hate because he is jerk, then it becomes a classic romantic manga and you're happy again.

By the way, I totally agree with his final choice.

As echotherealalpha said, try looking the epilogue, titled Onani Master Kurosawa: After the Juvenile. It's not long and it's a warm, fuzzy material <3

 

[Bossun]

Masterpieces for me doesn't mean it has to be an entire serie.

I take the first 14 volumes of berserk as absolute masterpiece. Basically all the flashback.
It was perfect, from the story, the pace, the emotional roller coaster, the rough situations that were ugly and dirty, not polished like how manga usually do.

Then there's Fire Candy, because even years after reading it, it's still stuck in my head and pops up pretty often for the same reason as berserk.

Ai ren also did a number on me.

 

[curlyfriski]

Don't read 20th Century Boys.

Don't do it.

It's one of the worst streeeeeeetching mangas I have ever read. You know, when the author adds stuff just for the sake of adding stuff, even if the added stuff are just largely filler, nonsense, and withhold no value other than to just make stuff more *deep* which I mean more shitty and convoluted for the sake of convoluted.

It's like, "It's A!" but then "Oho A is B!" but then "Surprise, A is C!" and then "No no no no no A is D!" and then "D is A!" and then "Nooooo D is B after all!" and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.......................

It's weird. Even though I thought the ending to 20th Century was horribly stretched and almost entirely without redeeming features, it didn't reduce how much I enjoyed the first half. With shows like Lost and Battlestar Galactica, however, the disappointing endings lowered my opinion of the entire series, including the parts I had previously enjoyed.

 

[Antiwhippy]

In terms of "perfect" classics for me, it's glass mask, nodame cantabile, yotsuba and blade of the immortal probably.

Has anyone here even read glass mask?

 

[Infinite Justice]

No. Jiriaya told him practically at his first appearance it gave him a shit ton of chakra and he went Fox Mode literally in his first fight.

The J man?, you mean the guy that appears many chapters after the fact? you have a weird definition of day one where we know all of this.

Plus the "info" Jiraiya gave was mostly muttered to himself (and the audience i guess) and he told naruto to expend his current chakra.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Don't read 20th Century Boys.

Don't do it.

It's one of the worst streeeeeeetching mangas I have ever read. You know, when the author adds stuff just for the sake of adding stuff, even if the added stuff are just largely filler, nonsense, and withhold no value other than to just make stuff more *deep* which I mean more shitty and convoluted for the sake of convoluted.

It's like, "It's A!" but then "Oho A is B!" but then "Surprise, A is C!" and then "No no no no no A is D!" and then "D is A!" and then "Nooooo D is B after all!" and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.......................

So, kind of like Liar Game?

I still have yet to read a manga more overtly convoluted in its explanations. WE DON"T GIVE A DAMN, jesus, just move on already.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

In terms of "perfect" classics for me, it's glass mask, nodame cantabile, yotsuba and blade of the immortal probably.

Has anyone here even read glass mask?

My friend has been pushing me to do so. It's on the list after Basara.

 

[curlyfriski]

Have you read any of Asano's other manga btw? Curious what you think of his other crazier angstier manga

I read Girl by the Sea a long time ago and found it mildly interesting, enough that I periodically looked for new chapters and wondered what the hell happened to that series. I was again surprised at how highly it was held in esteem here. I think there's a limit to how much out-and-out angst I can take before I stop taking it seriously.

I'm planning to read Oyasami Punpun sometime soon, isn't it almost finished?

 

[flawfuls]

Has anyone here even read glass mask?

I've read like 10 volumes of it and I know there are other here who have read more.

 

[survivor]

I read Girl by the Sea a long time ago and found it mildly interesting, enough that I periodically looked for new chapters and wondered what the hell happened to that series. I was again surprised at how highly it was held in esteem here. I think there's a limit to how much out-and-out angst I can take before I stop taking it seriously.

I'm planning to read Oyasami Punpun sometime soon, isn't it almost finished?

3 more volumes till it's done so around Spring 2014.

But you know, if you thought Girl by the Sea was too angsty for you to like then you gonna hate Punpun cause it's gonna be 14 volumes full of angst, self loathing, and depression.

 

[Antiwhippy]

My friend has been pushing me to do so. It's on the list after Basara.

Listen to your friend.

 

[Infinite Justice]

3 more volumes till it's done so around Spring 2014.

But you know, if you thought Girl by the Sea was too angsty for you to like then you gonna hate Punpun. It's gonna be a 14 volumes of angst, self loathing, and depression.

that bird caricature he does with the "main" characters is still fucking jarring to me.

 

[curlyfriski]

3 more volumes till it's done so around Spring 2014.

But you know, if you thought Girl by the Sea was too angsty for you to like then you gonna hate Punpun cause it's gonna be 14 volumes full of angst, self loathing, and depression.

From what little I've heard of it, I'm expect it to be a better, crazier version of Welcome to the NHK, which I thought was OK. Ah screw it, I'll just start reading it now.

 

[survivor]

that bird caricature he does with the "main" characters is still fucking jarring to me.

Be glad Asano had an editor with common sense cause he wanted to make every character in the manga a bird.

 

[Laughing Banana]

So, kind of like Liar Game?

I still have yet to read a manga more overtly convoluted in its explanations. WE DON"T GIVE A DAMN, jesus, just move on already.

Ahh yes, maybe Liar Game is an apt comparison. While Liar Game is convoluted using boatloads of texts, 20th Century Boys is convoluted using nonsense stuff.

I think it was the first time I have ever felt feeling tired reading a manga. If you hate convoluted, stretched to-no-end, and nonsense stuff I would advise avoiding 20th Century Boys.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The J man?, you mean the guy that appears many chapters after the fact? you have a weird definition of day one where we know all of this.

Plus the "info" Jiraiya gave was mostly muttered to himself (and the audience i guess) and he told naruto to expend his current chakra.

Your original point was about the rasengan, which occurred well after that explanation was given. In other words, your argument is invalid.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Ahh yes, maybe Liar Game is an apt comparison. While Liar Game is convoluted using boatloads of texts, 20th Century Boys is convoluted using nonsense stuff.

I think it was the first time I have ever felt feeling tired reading a manga. If you hate convoluted, stretched to-no-end, and nonsense stuff I would advise avoiding 20th Century Boys.

This is what 20th Century Boys is.

 

[Infinite Justice]

Your original point was about the rasengan, which occurred well after that explanation was given. In other words, your argument is invalid.

What?

The rasengan was used as an example for the effort stuff i liked because the episode was about him pushing himself in trying to learn it and against all odds. I don't give a fuck about the attack itself.

 

[Angry Grimace]

What?

The rasengan was used as an example for the effort stuff i liked because the episode was about him pushing himself in trying to learn it and against all odds. I don't give a fuck about the attack itself.

I was running into Poe's Law there because I couldn't find a way to make that last part sound less hostile since it wasn't intended to be.

The point you're attempting to make right now wasn't reasonably apparent in that argument because you were talking about the Rasengan part as though it showed the value of hard work. He was pushing against all odds to learn a super overpowered A-class technique so its hardly some struggle against the fates.

 

[Bossun]

There's an epilogue (in short novel form) by the way, that takes place two years after the school trip they took in middle school. Try and find it.

Nice thank you.

Do you think we'll have another novel : "two years after the second kyoto trip :: they finally kiss"?

 

[smurfx]

claymore

no way is this the end of priscilla. i bet she has one final hidden power but i don't think riful jr will die either.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Nice thank you.

Do you think we'll have another novel : "two years after the second kyoto trip :: they finally kiss"?

There's apparently also a novel too, but no one would bother translating that.

 

[Laughing Banana]

I was running into Poe's Law there because I couldn't find a way to make that last part sound less hostile since it wasn't intended to be.

The point you're attempting to make right now wasn't reasonably apparent in that argument because you were talking about the Rasengan part as though it showed the value of hard work. He was pushing against all odds to learn a super overpowered A-class technique so its hardly some struggle against the fates.

Did he say it's "some struggle against the fates"? I think he's just saying he missed the old Naruto where he actually trained to do stuff instead of getting hand-me-downs.

Although actually, the new Naruto also trained IIRC to get stuff like Sage Mode and everything else so I dunno. It's not like him being a descendant of the 4th actually mean anything--just because your father is an unmatched genius doesn't make you one as well.

Maybe people are just too sick of Sasuke that they are conflating his mistakes to the entire manga as a result.

Oooops sorry double post, my mistake.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Did he say it's "some struggle against the fates"? I think he's just saying he missed the old Naruto where he actually trained to do stuff instead of getting hand-me-downs.

Although actually, the new Naruto also trained IIRC to get stuff like Sage Mode and everything else so I dunno. It's not like him being a descendant of the 4th actually mean anything--just because your father is an unmatched genius doesn't make you one as well.

Maybe people are just too sick of Sasuke that they are conflating his mistakes to the entire manga as a result.

Oooops sorry double post, my mistake.

Let me also reiterate I don't entirely understand what's supposed to be so much better about him struggling to learn some technique vs. learning it in roughly the same number of chapters without making faces, which is what he does now. It isn't intrinsically better beyond the fact the character is shown struggling to learn them (and frankly, he struggled to learn all of them, so the argument is kind of non-sensical in the first place.)

I simply don't see the supposed narrative difference between Naruto learning Rasengan and Naruto learning Rasenshuriken and Naruto learning Sage Mode. All of them featured 10+ chapter arcs where he learned them and failed to learn them a number of times and pulled the technique out in the nick of time to win a fight.

 

[survivor]

Basara vol 6-7

Fuck, volume 7 was so action packed and amazing. And so many deaths I'm just loving the way most of these battles turn out to be, especially how in every one of them Tatara's side is so outmatched.

Anyway, there have been some elements in the story that have been bothering me a lot especially when it comes to certain characters. Also there were some scenarios that were too dumb or unbelievable. They don't really ruin the story, but I would hope we don't see more of them.

Oh yeah, this manga seems to follow the "flashback before death" philosophy which I really love.

From what little I've heard of it, I'm expect it to be a better, crazier version of Welcome to the NHK, which I thought was OK. Ah screw it, I'll just start reading it now.

That's a pretty good comparison. The despair and self loathing in both manga is very similar. I would say that the way both stories progress is very different especially in the later volumes of Punpun.

 

[Infinite Justice]

Did he say it's "some struggle against the fates"? I think he's just saying he missed the old Naruto where he actually trained to do stuff instead of getting hand-me-downs.

Although actually, the new Naruto also trained IIRC to get stuff like Sage Mode and everything else so I dunno. It's not like him being a descendant of the 4th actually mean anything--just because your father is an unmatched genius doesn't make you one as well.

Maybe people are just too sick of Sasuke that they are conflating his mistakes to the entire manga as a result.

Oooops sorry double post, my mistake.

Except having the ability to sense chakra like a certain member of your clan or the revalation that the rasengan was some hand me down from the 4th to help Naruto with the beast bomb attack plus the real reason for the whole fox sealing thing.

Actually i don't like Sasuke also due to the apperant disregard of chakra limits/usage he now possesses plus some broken ass eye spam, but that is another day.

Let me also reiterate I don't entirely understand what's supposed to be so much better about him struggling to learn some technique vs. learning it in roughly the same number of chapters without making faces, which is what he does now. It isn't intrinsically better beyond the fact the character is shown struggling to learn them (and frankly, he struggled to learn all of them, so the argument is kind of non-sensical in the first place.)

I simply don't see the supposed narrative difference between Naruto learning Rasengan and Naruto learning Rasenshuriken and Naruto learning Sage Mode. All of them featured 10+ chapter arcs where he learned them and failed to learn them a number of times and pulled the technique out in the nick of time to win a fight.

Just doesn't feel the same *shrug*

oh well

 

[Angry Grimace]

Except having the ability to sense chakra like a certain member of your clan or the revalation that the rasengan was some handme down from the 4th to help Naruto with the beast bomb attack.

Actually i don't like Sasuke also due to the apperant disregard of chakra limits/usage plus some broken ass eye spam



Just doesn't feel the same *shrug*

oh well

That's just because you aren't 15 anymore. The series quality isn't any more or less than it ever was. My problem here isn't that people don't like Naruto now or ever, its this strange argument we get sometimes that Naruto was super awesome in Part I, when it was the same shit it is now.

 

[Apath]

I never understood why the Rasengan is considered such a powerful attack. If you're going to point blank thrust at their chest, wouldn't it be just as effective to just stab them with a knife?

 

[Angry Grimace]

I never understood why the Rasengan is considered such a powerful attack. If you're going to point blank thrust at their chest, wouldn't it be just as effective to just stab them with a knife?

In theory, the point is that you need only one hand to create it and you probably don't have a knife right there. Also, they're magic ninja wizards who probably can resist a knife blow (in reality, a knife blow to the chest probably would not pierce the ribcage)