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[gerg]

If NSMB Wii were to signal the revival of 2D platformers on the Wii (and I don't think it really will), surely the increase in sales of 2D platformers would only apply to titles released after it?

 

[Kilrogg]

If NSMB Wii were to signal the revival of 2D platformers on the Wii (and I don't think it really will), surely the increase in sales of 2D platformers would only apply to titles released after it?

That too, yeah :lol. But I think what Anihawk was getting at is that a flurry of platformers has already been released prior to NSMB Wii, and that they didn't perform well despite NSMB Wii showing us now that there still is demand for platformers.

Anyway, Anihawk, I wonder what you think about my comments regarding the styles of platforming back then and nowadays. You're the platformer freak after all, so I expect good discussion on the subject.

 

[2real4tv]

I wish I could get Linus boxed out as an avatar

 

[Moor-Angol]

Again, there is a very clear distinction between people seriously calling something a bomba and observers noting that a game has entered the "bomba bin".

i think there are two different situations :

a game has been released in huge stock and it doesn't sell well, after a couple of weeks the price goes down and in a month or little more it collapses.
This could be called a bomba

a game has been released in huge stock and sells very good, but after some months there are still some stocks and shop need space for incoming titles, price is discounted to encourage people to buy the game.
This can't be called a bomba

If Animal Crossing Wii sells over a million but after 8 month you can find a new copy at 1500yen, i can't consider it a failure. Same for Monster Hunter 3, last week i counted at least 40 copies in Sofmap high discounted (as cvxfreak reported), after 4 months i can understand a price drop, especially considering how low you can pay a videogame in Japan.

 

[duckroll]

You're being retarded dumb, because no one is calling those games bombas. The bomba bin is what the price clearing section of a store is referred to by cvxfreak. Dumbass.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Looking back, I think stump was the first one to coin the phrase "bomba bin". I sure do like that name for it.

 

[Eteric Rice]

You know what I think would be neat? A 4 player 2.5D Megaman game.

Maybe the world needs some 4 player 2D platformers?

 

[AniHawk]

That too, yeah :lol. But I think what Anihawk was getting at is that a flurry of platformers has already been released prior to NSMB Wii, and that they didn't perform well despite NSMB Wii showing us now that there still is demand for platformers.

Anyway, Anihawk, I wonder what you think about my comments regarding the styles of platforming back then and nowadays. You're the platformer freak after all, so I expect good discussion on the subject.

Well growing up, I never would have considered Mega Man a platformer. He shoots things and has all sorts of different weapons and stuff. It was an action game, like Metroid. I was surprised to hear people call it a platformer (along with the old Castlevania games too, which I also considered action games). To me, platformers were games like Super Mario Bros, Donkey Kong Country, Sonic the Hedgehog, and Yoshi's Island where the main character didn't have a lot of firepower at their disposal. When I played MM2 and MM9 in 2008, I finally saw what I had been missing as a kid, and readjusted my definition for the genre, although I would consider them more of a hybrid of a series, like Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando or A Crack in Time.

I think you're right in that there's a sense of urgency that's missing from modern day platformers. LostWinds borrows heavily from the Metroid formula and is more exploration based. Trine is about solving puzzles that enable more platforming. A Boy and his Blob actually has the same type of platforming Mario does. There are several challenge levels that are similar in structure (make it across this chasm while jumping on blocks that will fall if you stand on them for more than 2 seconds and do it all in one try). Klonoa had something like this too. The extra vision was pretty brutal compared to the rest of the game, and I would've liked to have seen something like that elsewhere. Like NyxQuest and LostWinds, there's also a focus of solving puzzles so you can continue to do more platforming.

That's why I think Mirror's Edge is so great. The level design is very, very good. There are shortcuts there that you don't realize are shortcuts at first. It also has the same push 2D platformers have but in a 3D world since you can't really tell what's behind you but you know it would be bad to go back. To me, the game is the best representation of the 2D style in a 3D world. It does it better than Super Mario Galaxy or any 3D platformer. It lets you progress from level to level without having to collect a certain number of things first. And when you're done, you can try out time trials to beat the levels in even more fast and clever ways. There are puzzles, and there is some combat, but they're not huge parts of the game, and in the DLC and time trials, they're nonexistent.

So back to 2D platformers, I think your assumption is correct, but I also think the fact that Mario was so popular back in the 80s is part of the game's success. I think it's a big mistake of Sega to make Project Needlemouse, if it is a true 2D Sonic on consoles, a download-only title. People loved Sonic almost as much as they loved Mario. It would be really popular even if the level design wasn't very good (see NSMB). But I think it needs a big name mascot for a game in the genre to do well. I think it would be impossible for Rayman to have gotten big like he did in the 90s in today's environment, for instance.

 

[Moor-Angol]

You're being retarded dumb, because no one is calling those games bombas. The bomba bin is what the price clearing section of a store is referred to by cvxfreak. Dumbass.

Sorry for being retarded and dumbass, dude.
But insulting other users i don't think it's allowed in the rules on this forum.
Sorry for bother thee, Mylord.

 

[Kilrogg]

Well growing up, I never would have considered Mega Man a platformer. He shoots things and has all sorts of different weapons and stuff. It was an action game, like Metroid. I was surprised to hear people call it a platformer (along with the old Castlevania games too, which I also considered action games). To me, platformers were games like Super Mario Bros, Donkey Kong Country, Sonic the Hedgehog, and Yoshi's Island where the main character didn't have a lot of firepower at their disposal. When I played MM2 and MM9 in 2008, I finally saw what I had been missing as a kid, and readjusted my definition for the genre, although I would consider them more of a hybrid of a series, like Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando or A Crack in Time.

Well, to be fair, Mario games are action games too (even Nintendo acknowledges it), but I see your point. I don't consider Mega Man a hybrid, because the platforming element and emphasis on reflexes are an essential part of the game. Besides, the fact that he has got much more firepower than the average platformer character is mitigated by the enemies, who also have more firepower and hit points than most enemies in platformers. As long as there's this sense that the character isn't all powerful or indestructible, it's all good in my book.

I think you're right in that there's a sense of urgency that's missing from modern day platformers. LostWinds borrows heavily from the Metroid formula and is more exploration based. Trine is about solving puzzles that enable more platforming. A Boy and his Blob actually has the same type of platforming Mario does. There are several challenge levels that are similar in structure (make it across this chasm while jumping on blocks that will fall if you stand on them for more than 2 seconds and do it all in one try). Klonoa had something like this too. The extra vision was pretty brutal compared to the rest of the game, and I would've liked to have seen something like that elsewhere. Like NyxQuest and LostWinds, there's also a focus of solving puzzles so you can continue to do more platforming.

Didn't know about ABAHB, interesting. I'd have to try it myself. Klonoa is a classic platformer though, you're right. I know this because I played it back in the day and loved it as much as my NES and SNES platformers. Still, my point about both games is that the original games were never successful in the first. I mixed the sales talk and genre talk in my previous posts.

That's why I think Mirror's Edge is so great. The level design is very, very good. There are shortcuts there that you don't realize are shortcuts at first. It also has the same push 2D platformers have but in a 3D world since you can't really tell what's behind you but you know it would be bad to go back. To me, the game is the best representation of the 2D style in a 3D world. It does it better than Super Mario Galaxy or any 3D platformer. It lets you progress from level to level without having to collect a certain number of things first. And when you're done, you can try out time trials to beat the levels in even more fast and clever ways. There are puzzles, and there is some combat, but they're not huge parts of the game, and in the DLC and time trials, they're nonexistent.

All I played was the first part of the first level on a PS3 at a tradeshow. I wasn't that impressed, but this is hardly surprising considering the circumstances. I don't know anyone who has the game though, so it's likely I'll never have a chance to play it again (my PC isn't powerful enough to run it either). The DLC levels look like the best part. But to be honest, I'm still not that intrigued about the game.

So back to 2D platformers, I think your assumption is correct, but I also think the fact that Mario was so popular back in the 80s is part of the game's success. I think it's a big mistake of Sega to make Project Needlemouse, if it is a true 2D Sonic on consoles, a download-only title. People loved Sonic almost as much as they loved Mario. It would be really popular even if the level design wasn't very good (see NSMB). But I think it needs a big name mascot for a game in the genre to do well. I think it would be impossible for Rayman to have gotten big like he did in the 90s in today's environment, for instance.

Oh, of course it has to do with Mario. But the fact that its 2D outings are still the best-selling Mario games (and some of the best-selling video games ever) tells me that there's more to it than just Mario. Besides, part of the nostalgia/Mario effect has to have worn off since NSMB DS. NSMB DS banked much more on nostalgia, as it's the first 2D Mario revival, and is generally considered to be pretty average and uninspiring for a Mario game. I think the Wii game's success has much more to do with its own merits, demand for platformers, and its new features, mainly multiplayer.

As for Sonic, I suppose you're aware that the teaser was literally a teaser? It was made by a PR firm with no knowledge of what type of Sonic game Needlemouse is, and the only indications were "make a teaser that gets Sonic fans excited". The stupidity of it all and SEGA's consistently poor track record for Sonic this past decade make me think that they'll indeed release it as a downloadable title (if it's a 2D platformer). At this point, I wouldn't even put it past them to avoid a WiiWare release, or at least avoid advertising the WiiWare version (in favour of the other platforms), even though it'd feel right at home on the Wii.

I don't think a big name mascot is an absolute requirement for a platformer to succeed. Platformers, at their heart, have been for all audiences with an emphasis on children (mascots, colourful magical worlds, accessibility), which means that their potential can never go away as long as there are children out there and the games are well-made and not completely obscure. I don't think there's anything in today's kids' genes that makes them shun platformers. My logical conclusion is that there's something wrong with the way modern day platformers are designed and that there's a lack of visibility on those titles (downloadable releases and low development budgets in general). Hence my rant about today's platformers lacking some qualities that used to be associated with platformers.

It sure helps to have a big mascot though.

[EDIT] Also, I agree with Eteric Rice, but something tells me 4-player Mega Man would be extremely hard to pull off, mainly because of Mega Man's firepower. And it took Nintendo more than 15 years to pull it off. Who knows if Capcom would succeed?

 

[AniHawk]

Didn't know about ABAHB, interesting. I'd have to try it myself. Klonoa is a classic platformer though, you're right. I know this because I played it back in the day and loved it as much as my NES and SNES platformers. Still, my point about both games is that the original games were never successful in the first. I mixed the sales talk and genre talk in my previous posts.

There are 80 levels in A Boy and his Blob. 40 of them are mostly exploration and puzzle based with very little platforming. They're also very forgiving and have you respawn right before where you died in most cases. There are 3 treasure chests in these levels, and collecting them all will unlock challenge levels. Challenge levels are more skill based than exploration and puzzle based. They're often much shorter because when you die, you go all the way back to the beginning of the level. It's here were some of the levels reminded me of Mario. It can get to be pretty frustrating at parts though.

Oh, of course it has to do with Mario. But the fact that its 2D outings are still the best-selling Mario games (and some of the best-selling video games ever) tells me that there's more to it than just Mario. Besides, part of the nostalgia/Mario effect has to have worn off since NSMB DS. NSMB DS banked much more on nostalgia, as it's the first 2D Mario revival, and is generally considered to be pretty average and uninspiring for a Mario game. I think the Wii game's success has much more to do with its own merits, demand for platformers, and its new features, mainly multiplayer.

I think NSMBW is more successful thanks to NSMB reviving interest in 2D Mario plus its multiplayer. Plus, the setup with the Wii controller held sideways is very familiar for those who might have gone a while without playing a Mario game.

As for Sonic, I suppose you're aware that the teaser was literally a teaser? It was made by a PR firm with no knowledge of what type of Sonic game Needlemouse is, and the only indications were "make a teaser that gets Sonic fans excited". The stupidity of it all and SEGA's consistently poor track record for Sonic this past decade make me think that they'll indeed release it as a downloadable title (if it's a 2D platformer).

I didn't have a problem with the teaser. It looked like a bunch of students made it. And I don't mean that in a bad way- I know some fucking talented college students, but the "SPEED RETURNS" thing was pretty cheap and cliche, like saying "he's back" as an ad for a Mario game (because Mario never WENT ANYWHERE much like how SPEED IN SONIC GAMES NEVER WENT ANYWHERE SO HOW COULD IT RETURN?). They needed someone to check over their shit, because the rest was all right.

I don't think a big name mascot is an absolute requirement for a platformer to succeed. Platformers, at their heart, have been for all audiences with an emphasis on children (mascots, colourful magical worlds, accessibility), which means that their potential can never go away as long as there are children out there and the games are well-made and not completely obscure. I don't think there's anything in today's kids' genes that makes them shun platformers. My logical conclusion is that there's something wrong with the way modern day platformers are designed today and that there's a lack of visibility on those titles (downloadable releases and low development budgets in general). Hence my rant about today's platformers lacking some qualities that used to be associated with platformers

It sure helps to have a big mascot though.

I don't see the market as ready to return to platforming as their genre of choice. As the main audience who enjoyed these games got older, they wanted something that reflected that they actually had matured, so they turned to stuff like first-person shooters and movie-games like the stuff Naughty Dog likes to do. The adult audience who prefers platformers is very small, and probably plays something like Mario or LBP with their family. The kid audience is a bigger audience, but they get talked down to by hack game designers and publishers because they're making games for kids.

 

[Eteric Rice]

God, I wish I were a game developer, I'd love to make games for the age range of 9 - 13. Simply because if those games are good, those kids will remember them with fond memories.

Has to be awesome to be the guy that makes the memories of children. I think a lot of developers forget that. They have the mind set of "lol game for kids," rather than, "lets making something they'll remember forever!"

 

[Kilrogg]

There are 80 levels in A Boy and his Blob. 40 of them are mostly exploration and puzzle based with very little platforming. They're also very forgiving and have you respawn right before where you died in most cases. There are 3 treasure chests in these levels, and collecting them all will unlock challenge levels. Challenge levels are more skill based than exploration and puzzle based. They're often much shorter because when you die, you go all the way back to the beginning of the level. It's here were some of the levels reminded me of Mario. It can get to be pretty frustrating at parts though.

Thanks for the info.

I think NSMBW is more successful thanks to NSMB reviving interest in 2D Mario plus its multiplayer. Plus, the setup with the Wii controller held sideways is very familiar for those who might have gone a while without playing a Mario game.

Agreed, and true.

I didn't have a problem with the teaser. It looked like a bunch of students made it. And I don't mean that in a bad way- I know some fucking talented college students, but the "SPEED RETURNS" thing was pretty cheap and cliche, like saying "he's back" as an ad for a Mario game (because Mario never WENT ANYWHERE much like how SPEED IN SONIC GAMES NEVER WENT ANYWHERE SO HOW COULD IT RETURN?). They needed someone to check over their shit, because the rest was all right.

I think I didn't make myself clear: what's stupid about it isn't the trailer itself. I didn't have a problem with it either. The huge problem is that the firm made the teaser without even knowing if the game would be a 2D title, or a 3D title, or something completely different for that matter. In short: as of now, we don't know what Project Needlemouse will be, and there's no guarantee it'll be a 2D game. We though we knew what PN was, but it turns out we have no clue in the end, like that PR firm. Awesome, isn't it?

I don't see the market as ready to return to platforming as their genre of choice. As the main audience who enjoyed these games got older, they wanted something that reflected that they actually had matured, so they turned to stuff like first-person shooters and movie-games like the stuff Naughty Dog likes to do. The adult audience who prefers platformers is very small, and probably plays something like Mario or LBP with their family. The kid audience is a bigger audience, but they get talked down to by hack game designers and publishers because they're making games for kids.

By market you mean "developers", and/or "publishers", and I agree, sadly. The problem isn't on the customer side (there is/will be demand for platformers), but the developer side. It seems that many of them would be happy if platformers were strictly relegated to Flash websites like Newgrounds or something.

[EDIT] Eteric Rice, you know, I'm jealous of this generation. They get to experience freaking New Super Mario Bros. Wii as their first Mario game/platform game/video game. I would have killed fo awesome 4-player action back then.

 

[charlequin]

Well growing up, I never would have considered Mega Man a platformer.

Me neither. I think there used to be, at least, a pretty clear distinction between games where you were primarily focused on jumping and maneuvering (Mario, Sonic), where you were primarily focused on fightin' shit (Contra, Mega Man), and where you were primarily focused on exploration (Metroid, Zelda II). When I wanted to refer to all of them together I'd say "side-scrollers," not "platformers."

Among other things, I think the Mario/Sonic pure-platformer genre has a much purer appeal. Because both tie in defeating enemies to the action you're already performing (running and jumping) they feel more accessible than having to juggle two activities (moving around and shooting), and they also avoid the problems that shooting-based games can produce (either being unable to aim, or screwing up by trying and failing to use the aiming mechanism correctly.)

I think you're right in that there's a sense of urgency that's missing from modern day platformers.

In the discussions of NSMB DS, somebody (no fucking idea who) on GAF pointed out how many of the best Mario levels all have a sense of flow to them, where you get into a pattern of constant movement from element to element, and I do indeed think that there are very few platformers that really capture this element these days. ('Splosion Man does so in its best moments, which is something I really liked about it.) NSMBW clearly does, given all the demo videos of insanely quick runs through dangerous terrain and what not.

I think it's a big mistake of Sega to make Project Needlemouse, if it is a true 2D Sonic on consoles, a download-only title. People loved Sonic almost as much as they loved Mario.

I think Sega has tainted the brand way too much to actually pull off a disc-release return-to-the-roots relaunch with Sonic in one shot. If (huge if) they could actually produce a competent game that was small in scale on DD and build some goodwill they could leverage that into a bigger relaunch, maybe.

 

[Kilrogg]

I think Sega has tainted the brand way too much to actually pull off a disc-release return-to-the-roots relaunch with Sonic in one shot. If (huge if) they could actually produce a competent game that was small in scale on DD and build some goodwill they could leverage that into a bigger relaunch, maybe.

Is there even a huge enough font size for that "if"?

About Mega Man, I think it's pretty different from games like Contra. The platforming aspect is just too present. I do agree that Mario is "purer" though.

Many platformers also seem to have the player control a weak character. One that can die in very few hits or if you're being careless. One that isn't more powerful than the enemies from the get-go (player skill aside).

 

[Divvy]

I've always thought of Megaman as a platformer despite the focus on combat. Although there are a lot of aggressive enemies in the game, they've always been there to distract you from the platforming. Aside from boss fights, I would attribute 90% of the deaths I've experienced in megaman games (at least the original ones) to platforming failure. This is really evident in MM9 where most of the enemies are dick moves put there by the developers to push you into a pit or spikes.

 

[Chris1964]

People are talking about NSMBW being a revival of 2D gaming... Shouldn't that mean there would be a lot of other 2D games doing well too? Most of the retail games bombed on the system. The only iffy one (and it's really stretching to call it iffy) is Muramasa, which still is below 100k WW or just barely there.

The success of NSMBW will revive at least one 2D game on Wii: Kirby Wii.
Nintendo has now a very good reason to publish the game sometime this year (decade).

I don't see anything else that could ride NSMBW success since after all there isn't any company that is willing to invest seriously on 2D platforming. NSMBW isn't selling only because of name, it has a huge advertising campaign behind of it.

 

[gerg]

The success of NSMBW will revive at least one 2D game on Wii: Kirby Wii.
Nintendo has now a very good reason to publish the game sometime this year (decade).

Now that I think about it, NSMB Wii seems to be the one good reason that Nintendo kept Kirby Wii on its release lists all this time. If there's a big surprise for the upcoming retailers' meeting, I can expect it to be that.

 

[Spiegel]

Re. Taiko 2

Looks like Namco shipped too many stand-alone copies because the game had sold ~250k as of last week and that was the number of the first shipment sent to stores.

 

[Bel Marduk]

Re. Taiko 2

Pic

Looks like Namco shipped too many stand-alone copies because the game had sold ~250k as of last week and that was the number of the first shipment sent to stores.

Once again another case of a publisher shipping out too many stand alones...when will they learn? Luckily many of these games are selling well regardless (MH3, SW3, Taiko) but still.

 

[ReyBrujo]

[EDIT] Eteric Rice, you know, I'm jealous of this generation. They get to experience freaking New Super Mario Bros. Wii as their first Mario game/platform game/video game. I would have killed fo awesome 4-player action back then.

Hmm... sure? Back when I was child, we played Super Mario Bros one life each, and we would have never imagined a 2D scrolling game.

 

[cvxfreak]

I see Crystal Bearers bomba in that Taiko 2 picture. ¥1980.

 

[mutsu]

I see Crystal Bearers bomba in that Taiko 2 picture. ¥1980.

I see ¥980...? Or is it only me? :lol

 

[m3k]

bayonetta in large quantities... all 360 cases?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

bayonetta in large quantities... all 360 cases?

The shorter stack is 360. The big stack next to it is PS3.

 

[Y2Kev]

Looks like there is a 1 overlapping on the left? 1980?

 

[m3k]

is anyone keeping track of wii fit plus and wii sports resort... is it me or these look like having long legs? going back to their release they are seemingly always in the top 15-20 and normally dont have big decreases... and projections/predictions on how much they might sell?

its just that their decreases after christmas compared to other games caught my eye in this weeks numbers

 

[cvxfreak]

¥1980.

http://www.biccamera.com/bicbic/jsp/w/catalog/detail.jsp?JAN_CODE=4988601005258

 

[DR2K]

How much is that copy of 360 bayonetta?

 

[cvxfreak]

How much is that copy of 360 bayonetta?

¥3980.

 

[Hero]

I said it in another thread but right now the head of Sega should go to Sonic Team and stop them from working on whatever piece of trash 3D Sonic game they're working on next and get them working on New Sonic the Hedgehog Wii.

 

[NeoUltima]

God, I wish I were a game developer, I'd love to make games for the age range of 9 - 13. Simply because if those games are good, those kids will remember them with fond memories.

Has to be awesome to be the guy that makes the memories of children. I think a lot of developers forget that. They have the mind set of "lol game for kids," rather than, "lets making something they'll remember forever!"

Awww, I'm touched

 

[cvxfreak]

I said it in another thread but right now the head of Sega should go to Sonic Team and stop them from working on whatever piece of trash 3D Sonic game they're working on next and get them working on New Sonic the Hedgehog Wii.

New Sonic The Hedgehog
New The Legend of Zelda
New Super Donkey Kong (DKC)
New Final Fantasy
New Dragon Quest
New Biohazard
New Ryu ga Gotoku

 

[Hero]

New Sonic The Hedgehog
New The Legend of Zelda
New Super Donkey Kong (DKC)
New Final Fantasy
New Dragon Quest
New Biohazard
New Ryu ga Gotoku

See? These are all better business decisions than any associated third party companies have done so far this generation.

 

[cvxfreak]

See? These are all better business decisions than any associated third party companies have done so far this generation.

 

[Nirolak]

New Final Fantasy

How far back are we talking here?

See? These are all better business decisions than any associated third party companies have done so far this generation.

Judging by the sales of RE5 and Dragon Quest IX, I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

 

[Hero of Legend]

I said it in another thread but right now the head of Sega should go to Sonic Team and stop them from working on whatever piece of trash 3D Sonic game they're working on next and get them working on New Sonic the Hedgehog Wii.

It's funny that Nintendo's NOT done with Mario that many want Sega to do with Sonic; 16-bit with overly classic everything, even the character designs are still modern. SNMB/W is a current gen game through and through, and its quality and massive success shows that retro graphics and whatnot aren't the ingredients to success.

I think it was MM9 that created the whole "wanting to go back to retro graphics" thing people want from Sonic. Konami's actually done BOTH ways with their Rebirth series, old school graphics and are sort of "remakes"? I need to read more about those.

But there's no question that Nintendo's hit their revival out of the ballpark, so they should be the ones for inspiration.

And why they seem to not be releasing Needlemouse on the Wii (and retail at that) is extremely strange but that's surely been discussed to death. Hell, if not Needlemouse, then literally copy the NSMBW forumla on the Wii or something.

New Super Donkey Kong (DKC)
New Ryu ga Gotoku

Isn't Jungle Beat essentially NDKC? And RGG (Yakuza in NA isn't it?) is too new and does really well, so I don't see why this is necessary.

 

[cvxfreak]

Isn't Jungle Beat essentially NDKC? And RGG (Yakuza in NA isn't it?) is too new and does really well, so I don't see why this is necessary.

My post was mostly sarcasm. I think only Zelda, Sonic and DKC can benefit from such a moniker.

Jungle Beat is interesting. I think that while it's a good game, it did exactly what Nintendo didn't do with NSMB: give it a name that implies going back to the beginning (Jungle Beat implies spinoff or "niche" gameplay), and not make it easily accessible (use of bongos vs. lack of unique DS features with NSMB).

But I think I'm also in the minority since I don't hate the DKC series like others do...

 

[Hero of Legend]

My post was mostly sarcasm. I think only Zelda, Sonic and DKC can benefit from such a moniker.

Jungle Beat is interesting. I think that while it's a good game, it did exactly what Nintendo didn't do with NSMB: give it a name that implies going back to the beginning (Jungle Beat implies spinoff or "niche" gameplay), and not make it easily accessible (use of bongos vs. lack of unique DS features with NSMB).

But I think I'm also in the minority since I don't hate the DKC series like others do...

What about now that it's on the Wii sans bongos?

 

[cvxfreak]

What about now that it's on the Wii sans bongos?

It's still a GameCube port, so I wouldn't really count it myself. If it sold much better, then I would be inclined to agree.

 

[oldie-newbie]

The success of NSMBW will revive at least one 2D game on Wii: Kirby Wii.
Nintendo has now a very good reason to publish the game sometime this year (decade).

A new 2D Yoshi's Island will be great (and also a new real Donkey Kong Country 2D)...

Please Nintendo, give me more watermelon seeds for Yoshi

 

[C.T.]

Once again another case of a publisher shipping out too many stand alones...when will they learn? Luckily many of these games are selling well regardless (MH3, SW3, Taiko) but still.

Its a sequel. Don't tell me you knew it would attract more new players than owners of Taiko 1.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Once again another case of a publisher shipping out too many stand alones...when will they learn? Luckily many of these games are selling well regardless (MH3, SW3, Taiko) but still.

They don't have to learn anything, its you. There's a pretty big difference between a Taiko game and any of those other games you mentioned which do not have a peripheral of its own.

 

[Rolf NB]

God, I wish I were a game developer, I'd love to make games for the age range of 9 - 13. Simply because if those games are good, those kids will remember them with fond memories.

Not necessary. Garbage for kids is actually a common business model. See Team Sonic.

 

[hirokazu]

Not necessary. Garbage for kids is actually a common business model. See Team Sonic.

Well, his point is if the games are good. Sonic Team games aren't good, so they're automatically excluded.

 

[RJT]

Did I hear someone mentioning Mirror's Edge? Brilliant game. Definitely the underrated game of the generation.

 

[lordmrw]

Awww, I'm touched

He has a point. If I were to give up gaming tomorrow, I would feel pretty content knowing that I got to experience some of the best games ever made at release, and those memories will stay with me forever.

 

[test_account]

God, I wish I were a game developer, I'd love to make games for the age range of 9 - 13. Simply because if those games are good, those kids will remember them with fond memories.

Has to be awesome to be the guy that makes the memories of children. I think a lot of developers forget that. They have the mind set of "lol game for kids," rather than, "lets making something they'll remember forever!"

Maybe some developers forget that indeed, but personally, i dont think that really that many developers have a "lol game for kids" way of thinking. I would guess that a lot of today's developers are people who themself grew up playing games, so i would guess that they know what games means for kids

I wonder if one of the main reasons for why not basicly every developer makes games that are more aimed for kids is because maybe they think it is less money to make in this market compared to make games that are aimed for an older audience. There are definitely a lot of kids that plays games, so there is a big market there, but generally speaking, i dont think that kids from 9 - 13 years old are those who buys most games themself. They probably have to rely more on their parents to buy the games for them, or to give them money.

I am not sure how it is with kids' economy today though, but i remember this from my own childhood at least, i think that my family bought less than 10 NES games over an about 5 year period. The game were more expencive back then compared to what games costs today though, but me as a kid back then i didnt buy that many games myself at least because i didnt have that much money. Instead i rented games once in a while and/or borrowed games from friends instead of buying new games. A toy store where i lived also offered people to trade in their game for a fee (about $10 or so), then you could chose to get another used game in return.

I havnt checked too much about all of the games in today's market, but i am under the impression that there isnt exactly rare to see games today that are aimed for kids? Even if not basicly every developer makes games that are more aimed for kids, i would guess that kids today have many games to choose from that will give them great memories


But i like the way that you think My best gaming memories are from my childhood and from the Nintendo 8bit NES days, so i totally agree that it must be great to make games for kids that they will remember forevery. And/or for adults as well, as long as a game is that great that people will remember it forever, it must be a great feeling to know that you had made a game that people will remember forever Maybe childhood memories and when you play games basicly for the first time are stronger compared to adult memories if you have played games for many years though

 

[Eteric Rice]

Maybe some developers forget that indeed, but personally, i dont think that really that many developers have a "lol game for kids" way of thinking. I would guess that a lot of today's developers are people who themself grew up playing games, so i would guess that they know what games means for kids

I wonder if one of the main reasons for why not basicly every developer makes games that are more aimed for kids is because maybe they think it is less money to make in this market compared to make games that are aimed for an older audience. There are definitely a lot of kids that plays games, so there is a big market there, but generally speaking, i dont think that kids from 9 - 13 years old are those who buys most games themself. They probably have to rely more on their parents to buy the games for them, or to give them money.

I am not sure how it is with kids' economy today though, but i remember this from my own childhood at least, i think that my family bought less than 10 NES games over an about 5 year period. The game were more expencive back then compared to what games costs today though, but me as a kid back then i didnt buy that many games myself at least because i didnt have that much money. Instead i rented games once in a while and/or borrowed games from friends instead of buying new games. A toy store where i lived also offered people to trade in their game for a fee (about $10 or so), then you could chose to get another used game in return.

I havnt checked too much about all of the games in today's market, but i am under the impression that there isnt exactly rare to see games today that are aimed for kids? Even if not basicly every developer makes games that are more aimed for kids, i would guess that kids today have many games to choose from that will give them great memories


But i like the way that you think My best gaming memories are from my childhood and from the Nintendo 8bit NES days, so i totally agree that it must be great to make games for kids that they will remember forevery. And/or for adults as well, as long as a game is that great that people will remember it forever, it must be a great feeling to know that you had made a game that people will remember forever Maybe childhood memories and when you play games basicly for the first time are stronger compared to adult memories if you have played games for many years though

There are a lot of kid's games, yeah. The problem is that they're not very good. Most of it is movie licensed shovelware, unfortunately.

I think the best way of going about it is to not make games for kids specifically, but games that have a cool protagonist that can attract both kids and adults. Think Ratchet & Clank, Super Mario, Jak & Daxter, Spyro (in the PS1 days), Crash Bandicoot (PS1 days). These characters aren't specifically aimed at kids, but kids can play and enjoy them as well as adults.

I usually call these neutral characters, because they appeal more broadly.

Even the advertisments are something both and kid and an adult would get a kick out of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjkAK4LZkao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48VB0fJfoVw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxhUOU9zY2E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8khYM3So1Y

And so on. They definately appealed to me when I was younger, and still now as an adult. They're hilarious. :lol

 

[Sage00]

There are a lot of kid's games, yeah. The problem is that they're not very good. Most of it is movie licensed shovelware, unfortunately.

I think the best way of going about it is to not make games for kids specifically, but games that have a cool protagonist that can attract both kids and adults. Think Ratchet & Clank, Super Mario, Jak & Daxter, Spyro (in the PS1 days), Crash Bandicoot (PS1 days). These characters aren't specifically aimed at kids, but kids can play and enjoy them as well as adults.

I usually call these neutral characters, because they appeal more broadly.

Even the advertisments are something both and kid and an adult would get a kick out of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjkAK4LZkao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxhUOU9zY2E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8khYM3So1Y

And so on. They definately appealed to me when I was younger, and still now as an adult. They're hilarious. :lol

Those characters are definitely aimed at kids. Just because they employ subtle humour that only adults would get in the game (which most CG movie studios also do) doesn't change the target audience all that much.

I'm trying to think of a character similar to Jack Sparrow in gaming. That is a neutral character. Nathan Drake definitely fits the bill because, well, he's Indy. Family movie hero, enough of a scoundrel for the adults to like him and enough of a smartass for the kids to, with some added everyman charm from Naughty Dog. The Prince from Sands of Time is a good candidate for this, but he needs some expansion on his character. Maybe in the new game/movie.