I.. I hope there's more than that :X
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Media Create Sales: Week 18, 2013 (Apr 29 - May 05)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
I.. I hope there's more than that :X
Well, yes, I would assume there will be more than that, but as far as big software those 2 would be at the top.
shinra-bansho
Member
The discussion my comment is in reference to was spurred by the comment about 3M US sales in November and December.
So, I've been receiving a lot of PM complaints lately about the Media Create threads, but since this is generally one of the more reasonable parts of the forum, I feel I'm going to take a more diplomatic approach first.
So the valid portion of the complaints basically boil down to a couple of areas:
1a.) People who throw general statements at the thread that the people within (or sometimes just specific posters) are just a bunch of (Wii U and/or Vita) bashers/haters/etc because they have a negative viewpoint of the sales potential and/or future of a platform instead of arguing against their points.
1b.) There is a reverse of this where people call anyone who is more positive about a platform a fanboy instead of arguing against their points.
2.) People who try to make thinly veiled (or overt) slights at other posters who they disagree with instead of just arguing against their points.
So yes, these two behaviors are problematic.
However, I feel a fair amount of this stems from people not really knowing the best way to react when someone makes an argument they don't like, but aren't really comfortable arguing against on a reasoned, qualitative basis. So, I'm going to present two scenarios, one where someone is being negative about the Vita, and one where someone is being negative about the Wii U, and then three strategies for replying to that post if the only thing that comes to your mind is a "you're just a hater/bash", "fanboy!", or "I dislike you personally" type of response.
First, let's go over the three types of responses:
1.) Simply don't reply. If those types of responses are all you really feel comfortable posting, then just don't. Don't worry, the subject matter will move on to something else sooner or later, or you can just post a secondary discussion about something else you want to talk about in the thread instead.
2.) Pull out one part of their argument and argue against that in a reasoned manner. Yes, it is cherry picking, but at least it actually analyzes part of their argument in a constructive matter for the thread and moves the discussion in a useful direction.
3.) Argue against their position as a whole. This is the best option, and involves breaking down their argument, either arguing against or accepting each part as true, and then taking your individual pieces and putting them together into a conclusion that disagrees with their premise along the lines of "While A and B are true, X, Y, and Z are not true because of ________ and outweigh A and B because _________. This is why I feel your assessment is wrong and that instead __________." If someone follows up your points in the same manner, we have a great discussion going.
Now, let's try this in action.
PlayStation Vita:
Luigi, Lord of Liquidity: "Given the current sales of the system combined with the lack of relevant upcoming exclusives, I feel Sony is likely to discontinue the PlayStation Vita by this time next year. Sony entered last fiscal year with a forecast of 16 million PSP + Vita units sold, they only sold 7, and this fiscal year they only expect to sell 5. This is despite having recently performed a price cut in Japan and likely performing a price cut in the West later this year. The only non-indie games Sony has announced for the system are Killzone and Tearaway, neither of which are likely to be big sellers, and as of today they have basically no relevant third party games announced after God Eater 2 in Japan (which is also on PSP), and absolutely nothing in the West with the possible exception of FIFA, though EA has been extremely cagey on that existing. The only other studio we know to be working on PlayStation Vita is Sony Bend, and it's very possible their game is also on PS3 or even a digital game on PS4. Sony may not announce the cancellation in the immediate future for fear of scaring people off the PS4, but once that is out the door for a few months, they can announce the discontinuation of the Vita at their end of fiscal year call in May 2014, saying they're investing their video game resources into the PlayStation 4 instead."
Example response options:
1.) "Hey everyone, as a side topic, I wanted to talk about how Final Fantasy XV might have a major positive impact on PlayStation 4! I mean, think about it, we finally have a mainline Final Fantasy game that might be coming out early in the generation again, which is something we haven't seen since Final Fantasy X well over a decade ago."
2.) "Hey Luigi, I know there are only two announced Vita retail exclusives from Sony, but the Senior Business Development Manager at SCEE mentioned that there is a "an amazing big title" for Vita coming that's not an indie game, and implied in a follow-up tweet that there are even more than that. Sony has also been dedicating a lot of resources into getting indie developers on the Vita. Why put in all that effort if they are just going to drop the system? Wouldn't they be pulling out resources instead of putting more in if they were intending to cancel it within the year? It just doesn't add up to me. I feel the 5 million unit forecast is simply the result of them being realistic about their current position, not a sign that they are going to give up trying. As Sony always say, 'It's a marathon, not a sprint.'"
3.) "Hey Luigi, while I get where you're coming from, I feel most of the things you mention are looking at the situation from the wrong angle. Yes, the PlayStation Vita isn't selling a lot right now, and yes their forecast is pretty low, but I feel that's actually a sign that they're intending to keep going. As you said, their only relevant titles right now in the West are Killzone and Tearaway, and neither of those are part of a big franchise, or overly likely to sell a large amount. For Sony to still predict they will sell 5 million units, this implies they actually feel they have a combination of price cuts and games coming that can sell on par with Black Ops Vita (which still sold well despite being very bad), Assassin's Creed, Madden, FIFA, and Need for Speed. Given that the only title of last fiscal year's big sellers we have any sign is coming so far is FIFA, that implies Sony might have several somewhat significant games up their sleeves. 5 million units, while quite low, is also still around half of what several successful consoles have ended up selling in a given year, and is even over 35% of what the 3DS sold last fiscal year despite the 3DS being extremely successful in Japan, so it isn't necessarily 'end of life' territory yet. I mean the PS3 only did 9 million units at its low point, and we were even discussing earlier how 9 million units seems quite high for the Wii U, and there aren't many people expecting that to be discontinued by this time next year despite this. Sony has kept pouring in resources into Vita initiatives like indie games - something that seems silly if they intend to abandon the system - and an executive at SCEE was recently hyping up unannounced non-indie PlayStation Vita titles, again something that doesn't make sense if they're actually going to stop producing the system in about a year, since those titles should logically be canceled by now. Given that the Vita is unlikely to be a major financial drain on Sony due to their ho-hum support, I can't see investors forcing them to spend the money they're using in other areas, since it simply isn't a relevant amount of cash relative to Sony as an overall business. Given Sony's financial projections, indie initiatives, cost structure, and upcoming unannounced titles as detailed about, I just can't see an imminent discontinuation in the system's future."
Nintendo Wii U:
Hermes, God of Commerce being beheaded by Kratos: "Nintendo should consider dropping their console line next generation and focusing on releasing a handheld that can output to TVs. The Wii U marks the fourth generation in which Nintendo has been incapable of garnering significant third party support, including the generation winning Wii, and the tremendous dearth of announcements suggest that there isn't likely to be much more coming. Nintendo definitely still has a stable of strong first party software, but there is an open question of how much of this software actually sells consoles versus how much of it sells well because it is on a console that is already selling well. For example, NSMB Wii did somewhere in the realm of 30 million copies, yet NSMB U was complete unable to sustain the Wii for even three months, much less get anywhere even remotely near its predecessors sales. Nintendoland would also seem to illustrate that Nintendo's touchscreen controller is no where near as compelling and the Wii's motion control for the crowd that purchased Wii Sports en masse and made the Wii such a hit. Nintendo's hardware choices would seem to make it both difficult and unattractive for third parties to come on board with the software they traditionally make, and this seems to be frequently reinforced through developer comments and game announcements that don't include the platform. Nintendo's first party teams are also not equipped with the skill set to make multimillion selling entries in the violence and shooter laden genres that third parties prefer, and thus cannot build an attractive audience to entice them to jump on board. The requirements for making HD games are also going up significantly, and seem to have caught Nintendo by surprise, with Iwata admitting they had to take staff off of other software in order to get NSMB and Nintendoland done for launch. Given that these games don't really stress the Wii U's capabilities in terms of visuals or assets creation (though they do have nice art direction), this implies that Nintendo might be in for a long, hard road when it comes to adapting to HD developer, something which is very bad to have if you have to support an entire platform by yourself. Next generation is only going to get harder once they are putting out hardware on par with the PlayStation 4. The 3DS on the other hand is doing extremely well in Japan, and all right (but less than great) in the West, so Nintendo would best be suited pouring all of their resources into their handheld effort and trying to make that succeed and shine on a worldwide basis. I feel I should note that with the failure of the Vita, currently no one is successfully supporting two dedicated gaming devices, despite the fact that Sony and Nintendo were both able to do so last generation. There are simply too many gaming capable devices on the market these days, and too much polarization to high quality (and high cost to the developer) software for people to be interested in buying a system for only a game or two a year or for software they see as inferior to what they could get elsewhere. Nintendo focusing on offering a platform that is 'the best at what it does' would be far more logical than offering two platforms that are not."
Example response options:
1.) "Hey everyone, boy Luigi's Mansion sure is doing great! This seems to continue a trend of several series doing much better on 3DS than they did on other platforms thanks to the wide range of gamers that own the system. What other franchises do people think will do really well on 3DS versus their last entry?"
2.) "Hey Hermes, while it's true that Iwata said Nintendo needed to pull resources off of other games to finish NSMB U and Nintendoland, he also said that they are now experiencing notably less difficulty making games for the Wii U. Given that Nintendo is also rapidly growing and has created a new office to house all of these developers, I feel it shows they are strongly committed to changing their production processes and growing to the size they need to be in order to try and support both platforms. Nintendo has also engaged in many developer collaborations in order to get more software for 3DS and Wii U to help fill in the gaps in their output. Given that Nintendo has mentioned their next console and handheld will share a common architecture, this means that it will be much easier for them to move engine technology, game assets, production processes, and skill sets across systems, so they should ultimately be much better prepared for the transition next-gen as well. As such, I feel they shouldn't consider dropping their home console line yet, as they have not yet tried to support two platforms under the new core strategy of Nintendo."
3.) "Hey Hermes, while I understand where you're coming from, I feel this would be a premature move for Nintendo. The first (and possibly most important) reason is that once Nintendo exits the home console business, it is likely to be nigh impossible to re-enter it. Given the uncertain future of dedicated handhelds in most of the world, cutting off their home consoles could ultimately be disastrous for the future viability of their hardware business in any arena. While it is possible that the combined result of their two current revenue streams from the 3DS and Wii U are smaller than what would happen from having one larger revenue stream from a better supported 3DS, it is far from a certainty. Unless the 3DS makes significant strides in the West, there isn't a strong reason to believe simply throwing more games at the system will notably increase sales in the face of the modern mobile market. As such, having a handheld for Japan and a console for the West makes the most sense. The real answer is that they simply need to execute much better on the console front. Nintendo has shown signs of becoming interested in doing so, ranging from making a unified architecture between their handhelds and consoles in the future, to engaging in strategic partnerships to increase their game output. While it is true that Nintendo's consoles have now failed four generations in a row to get third party support, the most logical basis for a unified handheld/console architecture would be ARM processors paired with PowerVR GPUs, which would grant the console an architecture much more familiar and friendly to developers in the West who are heavily working with mobile devices. Would such a device net the same games as the PS5 and Xbox 4? Probably not, but it could very well capture the same games as smartphones, tablets, android consoles, and smart TVs, all of which are growing markets. It could also serve as the most premium device for playing those kinds of games because unlike the others, it will not have to go through a weighty operating system performing many task at once or the very cheap hardware found in an Android console device. Those same games could then likely scale to Nintendo's portable device (given that they're likely on smartphones and tablets as well), allowing Nintendo to implement a cross-buy policy across a very large range of titles, thus giving a unified console-handheld feeling while still maintaining two separate devices for two separate audiences. Now, if this strategy were to fail next generation, I could definitely see your point, but I feel between Nintendo's overhauled development practices, product strategies, and hardware designs, it would be both premature and potentially dangerous to drop their console line before at least trying one more generation."
So, I realize the above is a lot to read, but I feel pretty much everyone can managed at least option 1 or 2, even if option 3 is too time consuming, research heavy, and/or intimidating.
So the valid portion of the complaints basically boil down to a couple of areas:
1a.) People who throw general statements at the thread that the people within (or sometimes just specific posters) are just a bunch of (Wii U and/or Vita) bashers/haters/etc because they have a negative viewpoint of the sales potential and/or future of a platform instead of arguing against their points.
1b.) There is a reverse of this where people call anyone who is more positive about a platform a fanboy instead of arguing against their points.
2.) People who try to make thinly veiled (or overt) slights at other posters who they disagree with instead of just arguing against their points.
So yes, these two behaviors are problematic.
However, I feel a fair amount of this stems from people not really knowing the best way to react when someone makes an argument they don't like, but aren't really comfortable arguing against on a reasoned, qualitative basis. So, I'm going to present two scenarios, one where someone is being negative about the Vita, and one where someone is being negative about the Wii U, and then three strategies for replying to that post if the only thing that comes to your mind is a "you're just a hater/bash", "fanboy!", or "I dislike you personally" type of response.
First, let's go over the three types of responses:
1.) Simply don't reply. If those types of responses are all you really feel comfortable posting, then just don't. Don't worry, the subject matter will move on to something else sooner or later, or you can just post a secondary discussion about something else you want to talk about in the thread instead.
2.) Pull out one part of their argument and argue against that in a reasoned manner. Yes, it is cherry picking, but at least it actually analyzes part of their argument in a constructive matter for the thread and moves the discussion in a useful direction.
3.) Argue against their position as a whole. This is the best option, and involves breaking down their argument, either arguing against or accepting each part as true, and then taking your individual pieces and putting them together into a conclusion that disagrees with their premise along the lines of "While A and B are true, X, Y, and Z are not true because of ________ and outweigh A and B because _________. This is why I feel your assessment is wrong and that instead __________." If someone follows up your points in the same manner, we have a great discussion going.
Now, let's try this in action.
PlayStation Vita:
Luigi, Lord of Liquidity: "Given the current sales of the system combined with the lack of relevant upcoming exclusives, I feel Sony is likely to discontinue the PlayStation Vita by this time next year. Sony entered last fiscal year with a forecast of 16 million PSP + Vita units sold, they only sold 7, and this fiscal year they only expect to sell 5. This is despite having recently performed a price cut in Japan and likely performing a price cut in the West later this year. The only non-indie games Sony has announced for the system are Killzone and Tearaway, neither of which are likely to be big sellers, and as of today they have basically no relevant third party games announced after God Eater 2 in Japan (which is also on PSP), and absolutely nothing in the West with the possible exception of FIFA, though EA has been extremely cagey on that existing. The only other studio we know to be working on PlayStation Vita is Sony Bend, and it's very possible their game is also on PS3 or even a digital game on PS4. Sony may not announce the cancellation in the immediate future for fear of scaring people off the PS4, but once that is out the door for a few months, they can announce the discontinuation of the Vita at their end of fiscal year call in May 2014, saying they're investing their video game resources into the PlayStation 4 instead."
Example response options:
1.) "Hey everyone, as a side topic, I wanted to talk about how Final Fantasy XV might have a major positive impact on PlayStation 4! I mean, think about it, we finally have a mainline Final Fantasy game that might be coming out early in the generation again, which is something we haven't seen since Final Fantasy X well over a decade ago."
2.) "Hey Luigi, I know there are only two announced Vita retail exclusives from Sony, but the Senior Business Development Manager at SCEE mentioned that there is a "an amazing big title" for Vita coming that's not an indie game, and implied in a follow-up tweet that there are even more than that. Sony has also been dedicating a lot of resources into getting indie developers on the Vita. Why put in all that effort if they are just going to drop the system? Wouldn't they be pulling out resources instead of putting more in if they were intending to cancel it within the year? It just doesn't add up to me. I feel the 5 million unit forecast is simply the result of them being realistic about their current position, not a sign that they are going to give up trying. As Sony always say, 'It's a marathon, not a sprint.'"
3.) "Hey Luigi, while I get where you're coming from, I feel most of the things you mention are looking at the situation from the wrong angle. Yes, the PlayStation Vita isn't selling a lot right now, and yes their forecast is pretty low, but I feel that's actually a sign that they're intending to keep going. As you said, their only relevant titles right now in the West are Killzone and Tearaway, and neither of those are part of a big franchise, or overly likely to sell a large amount. For Sony to still predict they will sell 5 million units, this implies they actually feel they have a combination of price cuts and games coming that can sell on par with Black Ops Vita (which still sold well despite being very bad), Assassin's Creed, Madden, FIFA, and Need for Speed. Given that the only title of last fiscal year's big sellers we have any sign is coming so far is FIFA, that implies Sony might have several somewhat significant games up their sleeves. 5 million units, while quite low, is also still around half of what several successful consoles have ended up selling in a given year, and is even over 35% of what the 3DS sold last fiscal year despite the 3DS being extremely successful in Japan, so it isn't necessarily 'end of life' territory yet. I mean the PS3 only did 9 million units at its low point, and we were even discussing earlier how 9 million units seems quite high for the Wii U, and there aren't many people expecting that to be discontinued by this time next year despite this. Sony has kept pouring in resources into Vita initiatives like indie games - something that seems silly if they intend to abandon the system - and an executive at SCEE was recently hyping up unannounced non-indie PlayStation Vita titles, again something that doesn't make sense if they're actually going to stop producing the system in about a year, since those titles should logically be canceled by now. Given that the Vita is unlikely to be a major financial drain on Sony due to their ho-hum support, I can't see investors forcing them to spend the money they're using in other areas, since it simply isn't a relevant amount of cash relative to Sony as an overall business. Given Sony's financial projections, indie initiatives, cost structure, and upcoming unannounced titles as detailed about, I just can't see an imminent discontinuation in the system's future."
Nintendo Wii U:
Hermes, God of Commerce being beheaded by Kratos: "Nintendo should consider dropping their console line next generation and focusing on releasing a handheld that can output to TVs. The Wii U marks the fourth generation in which Nintendo has been incapable of garnering significant third party support, including the generation winning Wii, and the tremendous dearth of announcements suggest that there isn't likely to be much more coming. Nintendo definitely still has a stable of strong first party software, but there is an open question of how much of this software actually sells consoles versus how much of it sells well because it is on a console that is already selling well. For example, NSMB Wii did somewhere in the realm of 30 million copies, yet NSMB U was complete unable to sustain the Wii for even three months, much less get anywhere even remotely near its predecessors sales. Nintendoland would also seem to illustrate that Nintendo's touchscreen controller is no where near as compelling and the Wii's motion control for the crowd that purchased Wii Sports en masse and made the Wii such a hit. Nintendo's hardware choices would seem to make it both difficult and unattractive for third parties to come on board with the software they traditionally make, and this seems to be frequently reinforced through developer comments and game announcements that don't include the platform. Nintendo's first party teams are also not equipped with the skill set to make multimillion selling entries in the violence and shooter laden genres that third parties prefer, and thus cannot build an attractive audience to entice them to jump on board. The requirements for making HD games are also going up significantly, and seem to have caught Nintendo by surprise, with Iwata admitting they had to take staff off of other software in order to get NSMB and Nintendoland done for launch. Given that these games don't really stress the Wii U's capabilities in terms of visuals or assets creation (though they do have nice art direction), this implies that Nintendo might be in for a long, hard road when it comes to adapting to HD developer, something which is very bad to have if you have to support an entire platform by yourself. Next generation is only going to get harder once they are putting out hardware on par with the PlayStation 4. The 3DS on the other hand is doing extremely well in Japan, and all right (but less than great) in the West, so Nintendo would best be suited pouring all of their resources into their handheld effort and trying to make that succeed and shine on a worldwide basis. I feel I should note that with the failure of the Vita, currently no one is successfully supporting two dedicated gaming devices, despite the fact that Sony and Nintendo were both able to do so last generation. There are simply too many gaming capable devices on the market these days, and too much polarization to high quality (and high cost to the developer) software for people to be interested in buying a system for only a game or two a year or for software they see as inferior to what they could get elsewhere. Nintendo focusing on offering a platform that is 'the best at what it does' would be far more logical than offering two platforms that are not."
Example response options:
1.) "Hey everyone, boy Luigi's Mansion sure is doing great! This seems to continue a trend of several series doing much better on 3DS than they did on other platforms thanks to the wide range of gamers that own the system. What other franchises do people think will do really well on 3DS versus their last entry?"
2.) "Hey Hermes, while it's true that Iwata said Nintendo needed to pull resources off of other games to finish NSMB U and Nintendoland, he also said that they are now experiencing notably less difficulty making games for the Wii U. Given that Nintendo is also rapidly growing and has created a new office to house all of these developers, I feel it shows they are strongly committed to changing their production processes and growing to the size they need to be in order to try and support both platforms. Nintendo has also engaged in many developer collaborations in order to get more software for 3DS and Wii U to help fill in the gaps in their output. Given that Nintendo has mentioned their next console and handheld will share a common architecture, this means that it will be much easier for them to move engine technology, game assets, production processes, and skill sets across systems, so they should ultimately be much better prepared for the transition next-gen as well. As such, I feel they shouldn't consider dropping their home console line yet, as they have not yet tried to support two platforms under the new core strategy of Nintendo."
3.) "Hey Hermes, while I understand where you're coming from, I feel this would be a premature move for Nintendo. The first (and possibly most important) reason is that once Nintendo exits the home console business, it is likely to be nigh impossible to re-enter it. Given the uncertain future of dedicated handhelds in most of the world, cutting off their home consoles could ultimately be disastrous for the future viability of their hardware business in any arena. While it is possible that the combined result of their two current revenue streams from the 3DS and Wii U are smaller than what would happen from having one larger revenue stream from a better supported 3DS, it is far from a certainty. Unless the 3DS makes significant strides in the West, there isn't a strong reason to believe simply throwing more games at the system will notably increase sales in the face of the modern mobile market. As such, having a handheld for Japan and a console for the West makes the most sense. The real answer is that they simply need to execute much better on the console front. Nintendo has shown signs of becoming interested in doing so, ranging from making a unified architecture between their handhelds and consoles in the future, to engaging in strategic partnerships to increase their game output. While it is true that Nintendo's consoles have now failed four generations in a row to get third party support, the most logical basis for a unified handheld/console architecture would be ARM processors paired with PowerVR GPUs, which would grant the console an architecture much more familiar and friendly to developers in the West who are heavily working with mobile devices. Would such a device net the same games as the PS5 and Xbox 4? Probably not, but it could very well capture the same games as smartphones, tablets, android consoles, and smart TVs, all of which are growing markets. It could also serve as the most premium device for playing those kinds of games because unlike the others, it will not have to go through a weighty operating system performing many task at once or the very cheap hardware found in an Android console device. Those same games could then likely scale to Nintendo's portable device (given that they're likely on smartphones and tablets as well), allowing Nintendo to implement a cross-buy policy across a very large range of titles, thus giving a unified console-handheld feeling while still maintaining two separate devices for two separate audiences. Now, if this strategy were to fail next generation, I could definitely see your point, but I feel between Nintendo's overhauled development practices, product strategies, and hardware designs, it would be both premature and potentially dangerous to drop their console line before at least trying one more generation."
So, I realize the above is a lot to read, but I feel pretty much everyone can managed at least option 1 or 2, even if option 3 is too time consuming, research heavy, and/or intimidating.
StreetsAhead
Member
Short of any delays, the second half of the year from Nintendo for Wii U looks like this:
1. Pikmin 3 (July)
2. Wii Fit U (rated in Australia in January)
3. Wii Party U
4. TW101 (still under going ROM check @ Platinum)
5. Wind Waker HD
With maybe:
1. 3D Mario
2. Mario Kart
3. Lego City Undercover
4. Rayman Legends
Which is 1-2 games per month between July and December. Obviously, Rayman & Lego City will probably not do amazing numbers in Japan, but the push by Nintendo as publisher may lead to an increase in sales relative to other releases in the series.
Given Iwata's comments about a Nintendo Direct discussing Wii U releases for Japan around the time of E3, I believe that Nintendo is planning on having something else out in that time frame as well. My best guess is Monolith's 'X' as it will have been nearly 3.5 years since Xenoblade's release by this holiday.
However, I would not put it passed them to launch either Wii Sports U, Retro's game, or something else (Yarn Yoshi will also have had potentially 3 years of development time, for example) instead, though.
I could be misinterpreting and, in fact, there will be less titles than the US (in a similar way to Zelda 3DS coming out later in Japan).
Even at 1 game per month, I think Nintendo probably has enough to keep a relatively steady release schedule starting from the end of the year into the first half of next year.
As I've said before, while many of those titles I listed about may not be individual system sellers, taken together they may increase the baseline of the system to a more healthy level.
Sammy Samusu
Member
Or we could just face the fact that Wii U and Vita are bombing. 
EDIT: This week's Tsutaya chart is funny. I fear the drop is going to be brutal, especially for the 3DS which is riding high, but it will recover soon.
EDIT: This week's Tsutaya chart is funny. I fear the drop is going to be brutal, especially for the 3DS which is riding high, but it will recover soon.
StreetsAhead
Member
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/corporate/en/outline/index.html
Just noticed Nintendo's latest employment numbers are up. Accurate as of end of March 2013.
Full time employees world wide: 5,080 (down 15 from 5,095 in Sept 2012)
Full time employees NCL: 1,945 (down 11 from 1,956 in Sept 2012)
EDIT: Brownie Brown's restructure in the interim (they lost ~13 people) may be the biggest culprit for the loss.
This figure likely wouldn't include the ~56 or so fresh graduates they picked up at the start of April.
Just noticed Nintendo's latest employment numbers are up. Accurate as of end of March 2013.
Full time employees world wide: 5,080 (down 15 from 5,095 in Sept 2012)
Full time employees NCL: 1,945 (down 11 from 1,956 in Sept 2012)
EDIT: Brownie Brown's restructure in the interim (they lost ~13 people) may be the biggest culprit for the loss.
This figure likely wouldn't include the ~56 or so fresh graduates they picked up at the start of April.
I must say I enjoyed reading Nirolak's post, maintaining that kind of level in our discussions would be very welcome even if it's sometimes hard to do. I wish there were more like these especially without some of the unneeded agressiveness that's really not healthy for a good conversation. I strongly believe that trying as much as you can to be honest and respectful helps a lot when trying to put your point across to the opposite party.
That is interesting. Do you happen to have the numbers for 2011 by any chance?
That is interesting. Do you happen to have the numbers for 2011 by any chance?
StreetsAhead
Member
Staff numbers? No. But iirc, in 2009 they were around 4,395 WW and ~1,300 at NCL.
Graduate numbers by years:
2010: 110
2011: 92
2012: 124
2013: 56
Taken from the bottom of this page: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/jobs/recruit/index.html
Thank you, Nirolak, for that post. It would be fantastic if everyone would adhere to those guidelines for all discussions and especially in the MC thread. I feel like it's one of my favorite discussion topics on Gaf but I often find myself stepping out of these threads and not joining in the discussion precisely because of the negativity and general funk that sometimes creeps in. Here's hoping for constructive and reasonable arguments from this point forward.
Great post. I find the one thing that is common, but isn't restricted to Media Create threads is the reactionary post to something negative about X platform.
If someone says something that can be viewed as negative about platform X, someone else will reply to that with something negative about platform Y. It just ignores any points that the person may have made. It is quite annoying since they would have nothing to do with each other.
I think I did this with Skyzard's post, so I apologize for that.
If someone says something that can be viewed as negative about platform X, someone else will reply to that with something negative about platform Y. It just ignores any points that the person may have made. It is quite annoying since they would have nothing to do with each other.
I think I did this with Skyzard's post, so I apologize for that.
The points in 1996 from Pokemon on fit with the 1996 Top 100, but the switch to a different multiplier pre-February/Pokemon 1996 seems to have issues. Specifically using the changed multiplier results in a game passing the Top 100 threshold without actually being in the Top 100 that year. Therefore, the pre-February 1996 numbers seem a little problematic to include, to me. In my own database, I keep the numbers from the multipler switch and earlier just as points and not sales, because of that inconsistency. Just some thoughts on the matter. The website itself is great and how we have 1996 data and beyond for the most part. The Silver Fox website also used to have Top 30s (some a little different) from 1997 on, but not sure where they're at with the site redesign.
Yes, I was just pointing out that the numbers in the points column don't translate to sales 1:1, which seemed so low to randomkid.
They're really a small company in terms of headcount.
Nice post. I'm guilty of not following sometimes, guess I'll try to change that.
Some posters are really aggravating though
doing a little research before posting never hurts!It's nice to see but I can't believe it got that bad where people were PMing you that much. MC threads used to be one of the most civil places on the forum this past generation. Maybe it's just because on both console and handheld fronts there was no "system warz" due to the sales.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
I'm pretty sure they have by far the largest first party dev count.
Great post Nirolak. I think the major issue I had with this thread and subsets of it in other threads is the notion that people could get away with making some ridiculous comments and saying whatever they wanted because the sales data couldn't be refuted and people would hide behind the numbers. Hopefully moving forward, these threads will become neutral without the rah-rah coming from different camps.
Great post. Curious as to how long it took you to write it.
But that's exactly how it should be (bar the ridiculous comments). Sales data speaks here.
We will always go on a tangent discussing if X system has good games or not, according to each other's preferences, but at the end of the day the data speaks for itself.
Wii U and Vita are doing horribly, KH3D was a total flop. Etc.
metalslimer
Member
Exactly. I apologize as well to Skyzard too by the way. Even if I do feel he makes ridiculous comments sometime, I should be more respectful as I think this is one of the best threads on Gaf and doesn't need that kind of talk. Negativity should be encouraged just as much as positivity imo as it keeps a healthy discussion going. If you feel the sales data contradicts someone's negativity towards something it's fine, but it honestly is the most annoying thing in the world to see people complain about doom and gloom. Either ignore it, or argue it but how can you have a real discussion if it just turns into cheerleading?
Father_Brain
Banned
I'm not going to apologize for negative posts about Vita in general, as long as said posts are backed up by facts and I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong (i.e. about the extent of the impact of the February price cut). But while I like to think that both of those are generally the case, I do need to be more careful in moderating the tone of those posts, and probably more selective about which threads I post them in.
Well, I'll give you something to discuss indeed. Already posted in the GungHo thread, but it deserves to be posted here
http://www.siliconera.com/2013/05/1...-dragons-z-to-sell-at-least-1-million-copies/
They're expecting Puzzle & Dragons Z to sell "at least" 1 million on 3DS, since it's aimed at "upper grade elementary students".
It seems...a bit crazy as expectation, sincerly :lol
http://www.siliconera.com/2013/05/1...-dragons-z-to-sell-at-least-1-million-copies/
They're expecting Puzzle & Dragons Z to sell "at least" 1 million on 3DS, since it's aimed at "upper grade elementary students".
It seems...a bit crazy as expectation, sincerly :lol
frankie_baby
Member
could see half that fairly easy
I expect the game to sell a lot but over a million seems a bit reaching for a phone game port.
frankie_baby
Member
how much did angry birds 3ds sell in america
1 million seems bananas. How much is this thing retailing for?
Last I heard, it was around 500k
Last I heard, it was around 500k
Who is the original smartphone game targeted towards?
IIRC, creamsugar said it was the highest selling 3rd-party game before and it sold around 500K.
IIRC, creamsugar said it was the highest selling 3rd-party game before and it sold around 500K.
LunaticHigh
Member
I'm not so sure it's crazy. I mean, Puzzle & Dragons is the biggest game in Japan right now? One of the largest in the world too I believe.
I could definitely image a game somewhere in between Galaxy 2 and 3D Land doing quite well on the Wii U. I think Nintendo still hasn't quite hit the perfect mix of expansive 3D worlds with bite-size chunks of gameplay in order to fully satisfy general audience gamers. To me Galaxy 2 is perfect, but I think they still have it in them to craft a 3D mario that can sell as well as the 2D NSMB titles.
Do we know something about its business model? Will it be f2p like the smartphone version or something else? Is the game a straight port with some changes to take advantage of a few 3DS features (3D & streetpass, at least, + some fresh content) or something more substantial...?
michaelius
Banned
With the numbers it's posting on iOS that one milion doesn't seem impossible to reach.
Hero of Legend
Member
Pretty sure it's its own game, it's more of an RPG on 3DS.
My question is, who's the developer? GungHo I doubt is developing it in-house.
electroplankton
Banned
To me, it seems Puzzle & Dragons Z is one of those games that could really benefit from the temporal popularity the franchise is having, something like Love & Berry back then, or Run for Money on 3DS. They should capitalize this success as soon as possible because we all know mobile sensations usually don't last long.
Anyway, it won't probably reach such mark, but it can get close, in particular with an holiday boost. And I don't even think that's an expectation indicating some sort of profitability threshold; given what game is, I think it can be profitable by selling something like 100k units.
Anyway, it won't probably reach such mark, but it can get close, in particular with an holiday boost. And I don't even think that's an expectation indicating some sort of profitability threshold; given what game is, I think it can be profitable by selling something like 100k units.
besides what Nirolak said, I think that we, gamers, are a bit pissed that our hobby is somewhat floundering, long gone are the days of 2 handhelds and 3 great home consoles riding a wave of awesome and that makes people behave in an exacerbated, bitter way.
brighter days will come and these threads will be more interesting and better, in the mean time we can just watch and wait.
brighter days will come and these threads will be more interesting and better, in the mean time we can just watch and wait.
Graphics Horse
Member
Combined 360, PS3, and 3DS are over 1million, I think that's world wide.
dude you got nothing to apologize for.
I don't think I've seen a post from you that wasn't backed up by facts/numbers/what have you + logic. That's why I always shake my head when I see people accuse you of being a hater.
Right, one thing I want to reinforce here is that there's nothing wrong with being notably negative about a platform, and nothing wrong about being wrong about a prediction.
The example I like to use here is Michael Pachter, who is often negative about the sales potential of games, and often wrong about them as well, but at least he provides a reasoned argument for why he feels this way every time.
Calling him a dummy head or a hater is a rather ineffective counter argument, but explaining why his reasoning is bad is an educational post.
You're notably negative about the Vita, but you have good reasons to be negative about the system, and back up your position with those reasons each time. Sure, the Vita is hanging in there better than you thought, but we don't want people to just ridicule you for being wrong about a negative prediction instead of just talking about why they feel your argument was ultimately wrong. "Haha, it sold longer than you thought!" is dumb, "It ended up selling better than you thought, and I feel this happened because X, Y, and Z" is helpful.
Father_Brain
Banned
Thanks to both of you. I just think that this particular topic makes up an overly large percentage of my posts on the gaming side, so I might try to balance that a bit more.
metalslimer
Member
Well right now Vita and Wii U are the only real new things happening. PS3/360 selling like old consoles, 3DS seems to have settled into whatever place it will be at, and we have too little data to talk about PC. The launch of Durango/PS4 will certainly be interesting.
Well most of the time =p
Well most of the time =p
Donny2112, I just yesterday saw your advice from a few weeks ago: that I switch my charts from Media Create to Famitsu data in order to provide the top 30. Thanks for that.
That said, does anyone know where to find the Famitsu top 30 for the weeks of December 18th 2006, April 23rd 2007, and April 30th 2007? There is information missing from Garaph's weekly overviews.
I think this is especially important. Even vague driveby accusations like "look at all the fanboys in this thread" and "you can clearly see who is on which side" are useless and inflammatory. It's much better if you explain the faults in someone's reasoning, even if they aren't being rational.
Anyway, thanks Nirolak. I'll try to keep it in mind.
That said, does anyone know where to find the Famitsu top 30 for the weeks of December 18th 2006, April 23rd 2007, and April 30th 2007? There is information missing from Garaph's weekly overviews.
I think this is especially important. Even vague driveby accusations like "look at all the fanboys in this thread" and "you can clearly see who is on which side" are useless and inflammatory. It's much better if you explain the faults in someone's reasoning, even if they aren't being rational.
Anyway, thanks Nirolak. I'll try to keep it in mind.
I find it hilarious that right out the gate they expect to shift a million units. Its not impossible, but man oh man, what is it with people having some huge success on mobile then seemingly expecting everything afterwards to flow like water.
I sure hope they have one hell of a worldwide ad campaign to help aid that 1million units.
I sure hope they have one hell of a worldwide ad campaign to help aid that 1million units.
It doesn't sound like they are expecting it to do 1 million out of the gate, but it will sell at least 1 million over its lifetime.
shinra-bansho
Member
The sentiment is nice.
I'm willing to adjust the tone of my posts, if not the content.
The problem is, on occasion, people are just engaging in wishful thinking or cheer-leading, without reasoned argument behind it. However, they often appear to be under the illusion that something being "possible" while being wholly implausible and not based on anything of substance, amounts to some sort of sound logic or data-driven analysis. When their posts are deconstructed and refuted in a logical fashion, they proceed to further engage in wishful thinking.
Looking at the Vita for example, there is currently no reason to believe that Sony are going to invest significantly in it, there is no basis to the idea that there's some sort of planned turnaround in 2014 when the PS4 is on the market, and their forecasts are soberingly realistic. The lack of a Golden Week bump in this thread for example suggests underlying downward momentum. And in the US the system is barely registering; looking at the number of big-box stores and GameStops for example, these stores are selling something like 1 unit a fortnight - in terms of revenue/store area/time that's not a product you will want taking up space.
Sony know it is a failed product, they know it has no substantial future. Pointing this out will likely earn ire, but I don't really see there being a reasoned or data-driven argument refuting this.
I'm willing to adjust the tone of my posts, if not the content.
The problem is, on occasion, people are just engaging in wishful thinking or cheer-leading, without reasoned argument behind it. However, they often appear to be under the illusion that something being "possible" while being wholly implausible and not based on anything of substance, amounts to some sort of sound logic or data-driven analysis. When their posts are deconstructed and refuted in a logical fashion, they proceed to further engage in wishful thinking.
Looking at the Vita for example, there is currently no reason to believe that Sony are going to invest significantly in it, there is no basis to the idea that there's some sort of planned turnaround in 2014 when the PS4 is on the market, and their forecasts are soberingly realistic. The lack of a Golden Week bump in this thread for example suggests underlying downward momentum. And in the US the system is barely registering; looking at the number of big-box stores and GameStops for example, these stores are selling something like 1 unit a fortnight - in terms of revenue/store area/time that's not a product you will want taking up space.
Sony know it is a failed product, they know it has no substantial future. Pointing this out will likely earn ire, but I don't really see there being a reasoned or data-driven argument refuting this.
BishopLamont
Banned
P&D Z could sell quite a bit, not sure bout 1 million, its not simply just a port its more of an RPG than the mobile version and there's the Z bomb.