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[Principate]

I don't think they expected the 360 to do that poorly in Japan. Following the fanbase (or at least where the fanbase is supposed to go) should be the priority since it's always the most profitable way.

The Titanfall deal is a perfectly fine deal on EA's side since it's not exclusive on the Xbone. They're not betting anything.

Eh judging by it's predecessor it was kind of obvious. 360 multiplied Xbox's install base by what 4. 4 times what the original xbox sold in Japan is still crap, even a generous 8-10. The product had bomba written all over it. It'd be like betting house on the wii u successor.

 

[Prelude.]

Eh judging by it's predecessor it was kind of obvious. 360 multiplied Xbox's install base by what 4, 4 times what xbox sold is still crap, even a generous 8-10.

Of course, but I mean, the 360 had a really nice lineup of japanese games at the start of this gen, they probably didn't think it would have fallen so flat.
The Xbone situation is completely reversed. This time they don't have the 1 year advantage, nor the price or the ease of development advantages.
Sony is also more dev friendly than ever and not shitting on smaller games.

 

[Principate]

Of course, but I mean, the 360 had a really nice lineup of japanese games at the start of this gen, they probably didn't think it would have fallen so flat.

True but it was still very foreseeable. Still because the PS3 was selling so badly comparatively early on they didn't likely see much of a choice. That and Microsoft was offering money.

edit: none of those other things matter either way it's the xbox 360 situation all over again (common sense dictates unless your after western multiplat you shouldn't touch it with a 10 foot barge pole) but PS4 actually started out stronger in the rest of the world.

 

[Poimandres]

I doubt Microsoft is really going to bother with Japanese development this time around. They actually had a decent stab at it in the early 360 days, but they're just never going to achieve decent success in the Japanese market.

 

[Principate]

I doubt Microsoft is really going to bother with Japanese development this time around. They actually had a decent stab at it in the early 360 days, but they're just never going to achieve decent success in the Japanese market.

That was back when Japanese developers mattered and consoles still sold well. I don't think either is true this generation so there's not much loss there.

 

[airmangataosenai]

20 March release.

Yeah they probably thought the MH4+Pokemon hardware effect would stretch longer into the holidays but the system had lost a lot of steam by then because the hardware bumps were somewhat front loaded and people didn't wait until the holidays to buy a 3DS for those games. That left a somewhat empty software schedule with no major hardware driver until Puzzle and Dragons Z. I think a November release for Mario Party would have helped.

It isn't as if Mario Party is some banner franchise which can be used to push large hardware numbers, it's a slow burner which eventually builds up large numbers over a period. It wouldn't of moved the dial substantially this holiday, at least for hardware and they needed to pad out the March release list.

 

[Tripon]

It isn't as if Mario Party is some banner franchise which can be used to push large hardware numbers, it's a slow burner which eventually builds up large numbers over a period. It wouldn't of moved the dial substantially this holiday, at least for hardware and they needed to pad out the March release list.

I always associated the Mario Party franchise with couch co-op. The portable versions, especially with no online MP isn't a great draw. I understand it has download play, and Japan is the land of local co-op, but eh. Nintendo not prioritizing a console version for Holiday 2013 was and still is disappointing.

 

[ZSaberLink]

Mario Party on the original DS sold pretty well in Japan iirc. It also had online play, which probably helped.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Is there anything to stop the Wii U plummeting below 10K again?
5K?

It's both bizarre and fascinating. 40% of the system's 2013 sales occurred in the 5 weeks of December. That seems high even for Nintendo, who have historical holiday strength. What other systems have been this "holiday loaded" in terms of their sales?

 

[fredrancour]

I always associated the Mario Party franchise with couch co-op. The portable versions, especially with no online MP isn't a great draw. I understand it has download play, and Japan is the land of local co-op, but eh. Nintendo not prioritizing a console version for Holiday 2013 was and still is disappointing.

This is similar to one reason that I think the risk of ssb 3ds cannibalizing the wiiu version is overstated. I think that a large portion of gamers will prefer playing together on the tv to playing with separate 3ds systems. The handheld version also makes it harder to include people who don't have the hardware.

 

[Beant]

With all the talk of a new Nintendo handheld on the horizon, I would like to settle the debate once and for all. It should and will be called the 3DSU.

 

[vinnygambini]

The other candidate is Sega Sammy's game division.

I think Nintendo could get a deal done for less than $3bn and it would give them control of a large number of key franchises and they would find it easier to hold onto the key talent of a Japanese company.

It would, however, have little to no effect on their western success as Sega are not really a big deal outside of Japan.

Capcom or Namco-Bandai would be a much better fit quite frankly.

Capcom could easily be purchased for 2 Billion US. As such, they would acquire properties such as Resident Evil, Monster Hunter and the dormant and yet iconic Mega Man franchise. These franchises have all performed well on Nintendo platforms previously. However, most of the talent has left that company - a Nintendo acquisition might be out of the question as they usually follow the people, as oppose to the company who released those games.

Namco-Bandai last year would of been available for Nintendo for less than 4 Billion US. Namco-Bandai is the most profitable Japanese developer with very good management, a wealth of opportunities with mobile, profitable toy lines, amusement parks and a focus on further expansion in Eastern countries with properties such as Gundam and Power Rangers in the forefront.

Namco-Bandai would of been a great acquisition. Sega has lost its ''worth'' throughout the years as Sonic is no longer a household name and most of the properties associated with Sega have also declined severely. Their most valuable property currently is arguably Phantasy Star. I'm not seeing the proposed value of buying Sega for 3 Billion.

 

[djplaeskool]

With all the talk of a new Nintendo handheld on the horizon, I would like to settle the debate once and for all. It should and will be called the 3DSU.

That sounds like the name of a technical college.

 

[Poimandres]

That was back when Japanese developers mattered and consoles still sold well. I don't think either is true this generation so there's not much loss there.

The only loss is the games themselves!

I actually really enjoyed the Japanese support the 360 received in those early days. Even relatively low profile games like Ace Combat 6 were pretty cool.

 

[Principate]

Capcom or Namco-Bandai would be a much better fit quite frankly.

Capcom could easily be purchased for 2 Billion US. As such, they would acquire properties such as Resident Evil, Monster Hunter and the dormant and yet iconic Mega Man franchise. These franchises have all performed well on Nintendo platforms previously. However, most of the talent has left that company - a Nintendo acquisition might be out of the question as they usually follow the people, as oppose to the company who released those games.

Namco-Bandai last year would of been available for Nintendo for less than 4 Billion US. Namco-Bandai is the most profitable Japanese developer with very good management, a wealth of opportunities with mobile, profitable toy lines, amusement parks and a focus on further expansion in Eastern countries with properties such as Gundam and Power Rangers in the forefront.

Namco-Bandai would of been a great acquisition. Sega has lost its ''worth'' throughout the years as Sonic is no longer a household name and most of the properties associated with Sega have also declined severely. Their most valuable property currently is arguably Phantasy Star. I'm not seeing the proposed value of buying Sega for 3 Billion.

Indeed would of, hence they tried and failed, probably the most worthwhile Japanese publisher that fits with franchise such as Pokémon.

 

[Sandfox]

Capcom or Namco-Bandai would be a much better fit quite frankly.

Capcom could easily be purchased for 2 Billion US. As such, they would acquire properties such as Resident Evil, Monster Hunter and the dormant and yet iconic Mega Man franchise. These franchises have all performed well on Nintendo platforms previously. However, most of the talent has left that company - a Nintendo acquisition might be out of the question as they usually follow the people, as oppose to the company who released those games.

Namco-Bandai last year would of been available for Nintendo for less than 4 Billion US. Namco-Bandai is the most profitable Japanese developer with very good management, a wealth of opportunities with mobile, profitable toy lines, amusement parks and a focus on further expansion in Eastern countries with properties such as Gundam and Power Rangers in the forefront.

Namco-Bandai would of been a great acquisition. Sega has lost its ''worth'' throughout the years as Sonic is no longer a household name and most of the properties associated with Sega have also declined severely. Their most valuable property currently is arguably Phantasy Star. I'm not seeing the proposed value of buying Sega for 3 Billion.

Why would Nintendo want Capcom outside of the MH ip which is already on their platform?

 

[DaBoss]

There is no benefit from buying any large 3rd-party publisher/developer. They should continue to do partnerships with the developers for whatever is in the companies that will benefit Nintendo.

 

[Magicpaint]

It isn't as if Mario Party is some banner franchise which can be used to push large hardware numbers, it's a slow burner which eventually builds up large numbers over a period. It wouldn't of moved the dial substantially this holiday, at least for hardware and they needed to pad out the March release list.

The last handheld effort (a November release) sold over 2 million copies so I wouldn't downplay its ability to help move hardware. It won't be a sole mover of course, but it'll add incentive much more than say Mirai 2 or One Piece or those other titles.

Mario Party on the original DS sold pretty well in Japan iirc. It also had online play, which probably helped.

It didn't have online play and neither does the new 3DS one. Quite disappointing to say the least but given how well the DS version sold (over 8m WW) I guess they just didn't feel the need.

 

[BlackJace]

Didn't the government step in and stop Nintendo's acquisition of Bamco?

 

[metalslimer]

Is there any way the Wii U could not sell well, and still make a tiny profit?

Are the games being sold selling enough to turn profit?

I love my Wii U, and I don't mind if it doesn't get as many games because they're not profitable, but I really don't want Nintendo to make business decisions that make them like every other company. I don't need a phone or a tablet or buggy AAA titles.

Hopefully the 3DS can carry them.

Considering R&D, marketing, and what they've already lost over the system they have probably easily cleared a billion lost. The only million sellers they have left to launch are Smash and Mario Kart that are announced. Until they get the system profiting off hardware, it's hard to see them making up the profit anytime soon. And because the Wii U is going to flounder at the current price, by the time they are making money they will need to cut the price again anyway. Nintendo's engineering of the Wii U should be the first thing they look at when they restructure.

 

[vinnygambini]

Why would Nintendo want Capcom outside of the MH ip which is already on their platform?

The context of my writing was in regards to acquisitions and that Capcom and Namco-Bandai would be better acquisition targets for Nintendo as oppose to Sega, as mentioned earlier by a fellow member.

Furthermore, securing Monster Hunter was of vital importance for the 3DS and its success in Japan and to a certain extent, Resident Evil 4 for the Gamecube. Remaining on Nintendo platforms is of vital importance. In addition, within the context of Nintendo acquiring Capcom, Monster Hunter and Resident Evil, would become first-party titles. I think Nintendo would rather collect 80% of publishing revenues as oppose to a royalty check from their respective publishers (8-15%).

Capcom also have licensed agreements with several companies such as Universal Studios Japan with Monster Hunter, Resident Evil films with Sony Pictures Entertainment and much more - another source of revenue.

In the end, Capcom becoming a Nintendo subsidiary could benefit the company; however, like mentioned on my previous post, Namco-Bandai is a much better acquisition target for Nintendo.

 

[metalslimer]

Speaking of film, I don't understand why Nintendo haven't recently licensed out some of their properties for film. I guess it hurts that 90% of the characters don't really speak, but there has to be some money sitting on the table considering some of the adaptations that Hollywood has done.

 

[vinnygambini]

Didn't the government step in and stop Nintendo's acquisition of Bamco?

Not to my knowledge. Aquamarine would be the better person to answer.

Nintendo did invest in Bandai prior to the merger of Namco-Bandai Holdings; however, talks of Nintendo and Bandai becoming one did not bear fruit.

 

[Principate]

Speaking of film, I don't understand why Nintendo haven't recently licensed out some of their properties for film. I guess it hurts that 90% of the characters don't really speak, but there has to be some money sitting on the table considering some of the adaptations that Hollywood has done.

An animation Mario could work fairly well, Star fox also. (though not a strong brand),

Zelda I don't think would work, Metroid as an action thriller would work but that chances of it being done well is near zero.

 

[BlackJace]

Speaking of film, I don't understand why Nintendo haven't recently licensed out some of their properties for film. I guess it hurts that 90% of the characters don't really speak, but there has to be some money sitting on the table considering some of the adaptations that Hollywood has done.

I don't know, would the rewards justify the effort put into that? What could they gain? (I know money, but even that isn't a sure-thing)

Not to my knowledge. Aquamarine would be the better person to answer.

Nintendo did invest in Bandai prior to the merger of Namco-Bandai Holdings; however, talks of Nintendo and Bandai becoming one did not bear fruit.

Didn't know that. I was under the assumption that things were ready to follow through until an external force stopped it.

 

[Shengar]

Didn't the government step in and stop Nintendo's acquisition of Bamco?

Wait what? Seriously such thing ever happened? Anybody have a link to that?

 

[RyougaSaotome]

I can't see Capcom or Namco Bandai benefiting much from being acquired 100% by Nintendo. As others have said, I can only see numbers for series like Tales and the like suffering as a result.

 

[crinale]

I think it was SEGA that tried to acquire Bamco (actually Bandai only since Bandai and Namco weren't merged yet back then). Also, it wasn't the government that stopped the deal, but Bandai decided to not to merge with Sega by themselves.

 

[Takao]

Nintendo tried to buy Bandai more than ten years ago, but Bandai weren't pleased with that.

 

[Tripon]

Nintendo tried to buy Bandai more than ten years ago, but Bandai weren't pleased with that.

Seemed more like an inter-party squabble, with Nintendo being convinced to take a chance.

 

[Takao]

Clearly the Bandai people had a soft spot for Namco:

In January 1997, the wheels were set in motion for a merger between the two companies. For around $1 billion, Sega would buy Bandai outright, the two operations would combine and henceforth be known as Sega Bandai Ltd. With the deal due to be formalised in October 1997, Sega president Hayao Nakamaya was so optimistic about the new company's prospects he predicted it would be the world's second-biggest entertainment company, behind only the might of the Walt Disney Corporation.

In May 1997, however, things started looking a little shaky. Both sides had been due to sign off on confirmation of the merger well ahead of the October deadline, but discontent about the move, especially from Bandai's middle management, was sowing the seeds of doubt.

The Wall Street Journal reported on May 27 that "roughly 80%" of Bandai's middle managers "had expressed concern about changes in the company's culture and working conditions that would occur as a result of the merger".

While Bandai President Makoto Yamashina was still putting a positive spin on things later that day, by May 28, it was suddenly all over.

That night, Nakamaya and Yamashina called separate press conferences, during which they revealed that the planned merger had collapsed. While alluding to "cultural differences" as the main sticking point, it's believed that the Bandai dissent had been instrumental in bringing the whole thing down.

http://kotaku.com/5828939/when-sega-wanted-to-take-over-the-world-and-failed-miserably

 

[Graphics Horse]

Speaking of film, I don't understand why Nintendo haven't recently licensed out some of their properties for film. I guess it hurts that 90% of the characters don't really speak, but there has to be some money sitting on the table considering some of the adaptations that Hollywood has done.

Film as in live action film? Probably burned for life there. They're happy doing animal crossing and pokemon.

 

[ambientmystic]

Is there anything to stop the Wii U plummeting below 10K again?
5K?

It's both bizarre and fascinating. 40% of the system's 2013 sales occurred in the 5 weeks of December. That seems high even for Nintendo, who have historical holiday strength. What other systems have been this "holiday loaded" in terms of their sales?

Welcome back mate, your presence has been sorely missed, along with your level headed analysis in these threads.

Now everyone's present and accounted for. Right on time too, with the upcoming NPD thread around the corner.

 

[metalslimer]

Film as in live action film? Probably burned for life there. They're happy doing animal crossing and pokemon.

Well I meant animation

 

[Hero of Legend]

All this awesome insight, I can't take it!

I never knew Sega and Bandai were one step to merging, THAT'S 100% new to me, I'd love to see someone make a fanmade Sega Bandai logo! lol

Now all this is similar to this:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=716123

Nintendo bought 612,200 shares in Dwango who own 100% of Spike Chunsoft (which also absorbed T&E Soft, the makers of True Swing Golf on DS which was published by Nintendo no less).

It was even the President who sold those shares to Nintendo, and he's the largest shareholder at around 15%.

We may be seeing some fruits of this already since Spike Chunsoft out of nowhere is behind Fossil Fighters: Infinite Gear for 3DS.

They're no small company either, you effectively have 3 companies under one name, and a slew of IPs to work with (Spike seems to have the lion's share of the catalog).

It's a tad random, but they look like the top contender for a takeover by Nintendo.

Then again, so was Monolith having only worked with them in localizing Baten Kaitos Origins and together more directly with DISASTAH, Xenoblade was deep deep super secret beginning in 2006 as well since I believe Honne made the signature models then as a pitch or something, this was from Iwata Asks.

Nintendo's worked with Spike Chunsoft far more, prominently on the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon series (Chunsoft side), and also on 1st-party stuff like Wii Play Motion (some T&E Soft folks were in the Iwata Asks meeting, think they were absorbed into Chunsoft psecifically) and Mii Plaza's Warrior Way game.

 

[Takao]

I found Sega Bandai's mascot:

 

[airmangataosenai]

The last handheld effort (a November release) sold over 2 million copies so I wouldn't downplay its ability to help move hardware. It won't be a sole mover of course, but it'll add incentive much more than say Mirai 2 or One Piece or those other titles.

Yeah, they sell well over a long period of time. But the point is that the benefit from releasing it during the holiday would've been negligible. The upfront first week sales always make up only a tiny portion of the overall sales and they do nothing for hardware. Mario Party DS only pushed a few hundred extra units for the DS when it launched and there were no major releases the week before that would've thrown off those numbers either. Obviously it will sell well but you have to keep in mind that they have to strategically place releases. That's why Kirby was released this week, it's a historically week tracking period for Nintendo and it was intended to soften the drop (Although obviously it didn't do much to help there). Nintendo needs a noteworthy 3DS title for March before the FY closes out in Japan and they feel that Mario Party is the best game to fill that position amongst the cards they have. Maybe it could've been Yoshi but it seems like they're less confident about that game (Or perhaps it's being saved for Golden Week)

 

[Shengar]

I found Sega Bandai's mascot:

After Dankey Kang, I just.....can't

 

[Hero of Legend]

Look at the gap between MC and Famitsu for Attack on Titan:

12./30. [3DS] Attack on Titan: The Last Wings of Mankind <ACT> (Spike Chunsoft) {2013.12.05} (¥6.090) - 9.310 / 202.029

16./00. [3DS] Attack on Titan: The Last Wings of Mankind <ACT> (Spike Chunsoft) {2013.12.05} (¥6.090) - 8.598 / 177.289 <80-100%>

Why the 25,000 gap? You'd think Famitsu would be higher as it counts download cards... unless there ARE no download cards for the game?

For reference, Dengeki had it like 195k at last count about a week or two ago IIRC.

 

[Scum]

I feel singular buys aren't really a solution to a general problem. They needs tons of exclusive AAA content for these audiences to get them to move over or to convince third parties en masse to just support the platform, though that starts at the hardware itself.



Right, I think studios where they're actually stepping in and creating the kind of content they actually make and believe in makes the most sense, so starting studios from the ground up seems like a far more feasible option to me.

Nintendo Montreal and Nintendo Los Angeles are the kinds of moves they should be making if they want more Western targeted content in my opinion.

This is pretty much the idea I've been harping on about for a while now. Makes the most sense. Anything to help out with output. There's a crapton of talented devs out there too.

EAD US & Canada
Software Development Group No. 9 - Monster Games Inc.
Software Development Group No. 10a - Retro Studios Team Alpha
Software Development Group No. 10b - Retro Studios Team Beta
Software Development Group No. 11 - NST
Software Development Group No. 12 - Next Level Games
Software Development Group No. 13 - Setup/Acquire a new team

EAD Europe
Software Development Group No. 14 - Shin'en Multimedia
Software Development Group No. 15 - N.E.R.D
Software Development Group No. 16 - Setup/Aquire a new team

Get to work, Iwata.

I wonder how many people will defend Iwata if he says there is nothing actually wrong with their current strategy. Somehow he'll manage to keep his job when they eek out a profit after promising a 100 billion yen profit earlier. Also, while I laughed at the 3DS coming out this holiday, I would not be completely shocked if a new handheld was revealed sometime earlier next year for a holiday 2015 release.

I expect him to just about squirm his way out of the dagger stares. But he'll know he'll be ejected from his seat soon enough...

 

[Magicpaint]

Yeah, they sell well over a long period of time. But the point is that the benefit from releasing it during the holiday would've been negligible. The upfront first week sales always make up only a tiny portion of the overall sales and they do nothing for hardware. Mario Party DS only pushed a few hundred extra units for the DS when it launched and there were no major releases the week before that would've thrown off those numbers either. Obviously it will sell well but you have to keep in mind that they have to strategically place releases. That's why Kirby was released this week, it's a historically week tracking period for Nintendo and it was intended to soften the drop (Although obviously it didn't do much to help there). Nintendo needs a noteworthy 3DS title for March before the FY closes out in Japan and they feel that Mario Party is the best game to fill that position amongst the cards they have. Maybe it could've been Yoshi but it seems like they're less confident about that game (Or perhaps it's being saved for Golden Week)

Which is why a November release was good for it and why I specifically suggested that for the new entry. Mario Party DS didn't do big numbers from the get go but by December it went as high as 300k in a week. There's no way those kind of sales wouldn't have added a few extra K to the hardware in combination with the other marquee titles. Obviously I'm assuming the 3DS game would have a similar kind of impact, but leaving November somewhat empty was what killed momentum for the holidays IMO. I understand why it's being positioned for March and why it was left out of 2013, I'm just not sure it's a better strategic position in hindsight. I think having Kirby in March would probably have been better and having MP, P&D Z and Zelda ride out the post holiday month. Yoshi, I'd agree is probably being positioned for Golden Week...the DS version was a million seller so it seems like a good fit.

 

[Shengar]

How much Wii U Donkey Kong will crank up when it's released in Februari? What's your prediction guys, I wanted to hear.

 

[BlackJace]

I found Sega Bandai's mascot:

Daaaaaamn

 

[AmanoBuff]

Can someone share what time are NPD results supposed to go up? A countdown would be appreciated since I'm in SouthAmerica and time differences make things messy.

 

[Nirolak]

The issue I have with buying Japanese publishers is that while not selling in Japan is a problem, it's not *the* problem.

1.) The Japanese console market is dying.
2.) In your average recent year, the biggest third party Japanese publisher ends up with a market share of below 4% in the West, and it quickly drops off from there.

Even spending out their entire cash pile to buy up three publishers will give them at best an 8-9% point market share increase while massively increasing their burn rate. And that's assuming that 100% of people who are buying those companies' games now on platforms that aren't the Wii U show up and buy them on the Wii U, which seems insanely optimistic to me.

If their only real goal is to improve sales in Japan, then I would suggest just dumping the console line and pouring more resources into their handhelds in hope of combating phones more effectively.

Since I have to assume it's not, I can't really see the benefit versus opportunity cost here in buying up Japanese publishers.

 

[Onesimos]

Did not expect that the recent Kirby game actually outsold the three previous ones in one week.

 

[jakncoke]

Can someone share what time are NPD results supposed to go up? A countdown would be appreciated since I'm in SouthAmerica and time differences make things messy.

630 est tomorrow or 19.5 hours away

 

[AmanoBuff]

630 est tomorrow or 19.5 hours away

Thanks a lot!

 

[L Thammy]

Aside from acquiring IPs and studios, I think that Nintendo would get some nice things out of buying Capcom. Specifically, information and expertise regarding HD development, Western tastes. Capcom of America seems to be pretty good at market research. Their input could also be useful for determining what third parties need for console design.

The problem is that Capcom's direction does not gel with Nintendo's at all, nor would any other big Japanese publishers'.

 

[gigantor21]

630 est tomorrow or 19.5 hours away

Oh, we get to stalk creamsugar tomorrow? Nice.