Pennywise83
Banned
This has always been Square's, right? Remember where they were pumping out game after game on DS, regardless of the genre or the IP. The same for late PSP lifecycle.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Media Create Sales: Week 26, 2015 (Jun 22 - Jun 28)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
This has always been Square's, right? Remember where they were pumping out game after game on DS, regardless of the genre or the IP. The same for late PSP lifecycle.
djplaeskool
Member
Oops. Missed the context.
Yeah, it's only confirmed for "2016" thus far, hope it's targeting spring/summer.
On the one side, its not a terrible idea if you think you can prop up the console of choice with your titles to the point where you get good returns across the board. Conversely, it's a huge gamble if this doesn't pay off. (Back then, though, I was a kid who didn't care about math and numbers so I can't speak of it as overly informed of that era.)
When you look at the DS, PSP, PS2, or whatever, you weren't really in a bad position irregardless of the market because these consoles sold well across the board and had fanbases for all sorts of genres. The PS4 most certainly doesn't fit this criteria, however, and the audience itself seems to be rather polarized (though we need more data points before this becomes conclusive).
There's a concerted effort to revitalize consoles in Japan, SE is in it big but Sony is most definitely greasing the wheels. All of the "first on X" should make that fairly self-evident. But it seems like SE is the only company that has any real hope in the success of this initiative as everyone else is barely contributing... or not at all.
The World Ends With You sequel on 3DS, maybe?
Eolz
Member
Disgaea has always been niche, japan or not. It won't be indicative of what the JRPG scene is like on the PS4 in the west. Bad example.
By that standard the only JRPGs you can really use are FF, KH, and to a much lesser extent Tales.
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
Comgnet sales - Index Period: June 29 to July 5, 2015, 2015
[3DS] Fire Emblem if midnight sun kingdom - 66pt
[WiiU] Splatoon - 60pt
[3DS] Rhythm Heaven The Best + - 55Pt
[3DS] Fire Emblem if dark night Kingdom - 54pt
[Vita] Persona 4 Dancing All Night (Japan Version) - 16pt
[3DS] Dragon Ball Z ultra Ultimate Fighter - 16pt
[Vita] Minecraft: PlayStation Vita Edition - 11pt
[PS4] Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition - 11pt
[3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf - 10pt
[3DS] PoPoLoCrois Harvest Moon - 10pt
[Vita] absolute interception Wars - 9pt
[PS3] Minecraft (English) - 8pt
[3DS] Dragon Ball Heroes Ultimate Mission 2 - 8pt
[3DS] PUZZLE & DRAGONS SUPER MARIO BROS EDITION - 7Pt
[PS3] Call of Duty: Black Ops 2 (dubbed version) Budget version - 6pt
[Vita] Persona 4 Dancing All Night Crazy Value Pack - 5pt
[PS4] Earth Defense Force 4.1 THE SHADOW OF NEW despair - 5pt
[3DS] Monster Hunter 4G - 5pt
[3DS] GIRLS MODE 3 Glitter ☆ Corde - 5pt
[3DS] Pokemon alpha sapphire - 5pt
[3DS] Fire Emblem if midnight sun kingdom - 66pt
[WiiU] Splatoon - 60pt
[3DS] Rhythm Heaven The Best + - 55Pt
[3DS] Fire Emblem if dark night Kingdom - 54pt
[Vita] Persona 4 Dancing All Night (Japan Version) - 16pt
[3DS] Dragon Ball Z ultra Ultimate Fighter - 16pt
[Vita] Minecraft: PlayStation Vita Edition - 11pt
[PS4] Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition - 11pt
[3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf - 10pt
[3DS] PoPoLoCrois Harvest Moon - 10pt
[Vita] absolute interception Wars - 9pt
[PS3] Minecraft (English) - 8pt
[3DS] Dragon Ball Heroes Ultimate Mission 2 - 8pt
[3DS] PUZZLE & DRAGONS SUPER MARIO BROS EDITION - 7Pt
[PS3] Call of Duty: Black Ops 2 (dubbed version) Budget version - 6pt
[Vita] Persona 4 Dancing All Night Crazy Value Pack - 5pt
[PS4] Earth Defense Force 4.1 THE SHADOW OF NEW despair - 5pt
[3DS] Monster Hunter 4G - 5pt
[3DS] GIRLS MODE 3 Glitter ☆ Corde - 5pt
[3DS] Pokemon alpha sapphire - 5pt
Decent legs across the board from the looks of it. Really a knock out couple of months for Nintendo in Japan.
Wouldn't it be better to just look at, right now, the overshipped and overestimated the demand was for Type-0 + FFXV demo? Part of it is the fact that FF is a damaged, depreciating brand but part of it is also simply a lack of interest from Western audiences. SE clearly had considerably higher expectations for it than it achieved, that's generally not a good sign.
I don't see D5 doing well at all.
Wat
vinnygambini
Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
True.
I think by the time we get Q1's IR meeting, FE will have reached Awakening's threshold if one includes digital copies.
I'm mostly happy about Splatoon though. It's great to see a new IP perform so well. Their last new IP that performed favorably was Tomodachi & Rhythm Heaven from the Wii & DS era. Even the 3DS didn't get that chance, so it's awesome to see a new IP, on Wii U, perform as well.
Its a good foot for their Garage program to start off. I don't think you could ask for a better start to the program (though STEAM is part of that program too... let's just forget about it, like the rest of the world!), sort of like how NLG was a great starting point of their re-entry into finding Western devs (poor NLG and Fed Forces :/).
I think this is a point from which we'll see more of these types of experimental pet-projects of up and coming talent without "and Mario". It really does give you peak into the way Nintendo has, for the better part of the last decade, regressed in its ability trust itself without slapping on "and Mario". Recently we've seen some older IP surge to prominence (AC, FE) and now new ones are starting to push where it counts: attracting new audiences and moving hardware. The "and Mario" approach was/is as doomed as the "and Final Fantasy" approach. Mario has his audience, but you can't depend on only it.
Of course, you could use "and Mario" in a new creative way to give it new life: Super Mario Maker, which works to attract that Minecraft/Terraria demographic.
Explain to me the thought process of using the sales of an incredibly niche SRPG launching in a packed October as proof that there isn't a JRPG audience on PS4.
You'd be much better off looking at sales of Persona 5, Tales of Zestiria, or Star Ocean 5. Since they're actually in the same genre for one thing, and they're not destined to flop like Disgaea.
Type-0 is the first reference point we have, it didn't live up to expectations.
D5 is, I agree, a bad point and its bound to crater.
SO5 has a lot of bad baggage from SO4, I don't know how relevant the brand is anymore to the western audience. SO4 also came out on everything (except the Wii).
P5 has a good shot at doing very well. Persona is a pretty well known series at this point.
Zestiria has this as a reasonable height to aim for. Of note, Xilia 2 did considerably worse. Its hard to say where the brand sits in its relevance in the west or if anyone should hope for above average sales at best from it.
This feels almost like looking at JRPGs on the X360 early on...
Then we're in agreement.
The rest of your post is an entirely different conversation about whether or not any of those titles will find success. We can speculate on that all day but P5 and ToZ aren't far off so at this point it's best to just wait and see.
Indeed, I just put some numbers on ToZ because we have some decent reference material and the series hasn't really exploded in popularity in the west. P5 is much harder to judge with the general growth of the Persona brand.
Sammy Samusu
Member
Girls Mode 3 is kinda flopping though. 
Time for Pink New 3DS.
Time for Pink New 3DS.
1st Course
Member
Square said they are happy about it is performance.
http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/ir/library/docs/150512/page02.html
vinnygambini
Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
I agree. There's been too much of Mario as of late. It should be limited to the following:
- Mario Kart
- 3D Mario
- Transition from NSMB to Mario Maker (it seems like Nintendo is going there anyways)
- Mario RPG
*Mario Party personally, for all intents and purposes, should be shelved for consoles & handhelds. The developers have lost the plot of what made the series enjoyable. My suggestion would be to re-tool the series for mobile.
*I don't know where to put the Mario Sports brand. The recent Mario Golf flopped (don't think they will ever revisit that), Mario Tennis & Mario Strikers still seem to be popular - maybe release one every two years? Duno.
Interesting.
We have 1 mil shipped.
But we have perfomances like these in the tracked territories:
March NPD - Opening below Handsome Collection (200k? Thanks prodigy!).
Media Create Week 12 - Operning below 100k.
Media Create Week 13 - Gone from the top 20.
PAL Week 12 - Strongest region has estimates of 20k. (Looking for French estimates.)
PAL Week 13 - It all comes tumbling down, tumbling down.
Where exactly did the other several hundred thousand copies go? Did non-UK Europe buy 600k+ copies of the game? Or am I missing something in these figures.
Bomba Bin just like the first Bayonetta?
theprodigy
Member
it did ~200k for its first month in NPD if I remember right
and $10 on France>UK, we're talking about a JRPG here
Updated, thanks.
I'll try to dig out the French numbers, but are they going to be that much larger? We're missing close to 500k.
This nitpicking with certain games is always amusing.
Type-0 was overpriced and still seemed to sell a considerable ammount. Now its getting some pricedrops here and there (this week I saw some twitter mentions at ~30 price range) and those sales are still worth it for SQE. The million shipment will sell and some years later there will be some guy argumenting on a gaf thread that type-0 hd moved a million so it was succesful, just like there is with many more games now.
Do you think Tales of or DQ IX reached 1million full price sales on the west? I picked both Xillia sealed for 20€ each and DQIX for 10 for example. Thats how retail works if you are not GTA or COD in the west. And Nintendo I guess
Edit: On this same note, Amazon ES is currently selling a bundle of Xillia and Xillia 2 DAY ONE editions for 45€ lol.
Type-0 was overpriced and still seemed to sell a considerable ammount. Now its getting some pricedrops here and there (this week I saw some twitter mentions at ~30 price range) and those sales are still worth it for SQE. The million shipment will sell and some years later there will be some guy argumenting on a gaf thread that type-0 hd moved a million so it was succesful, just like there is with many more games now.
Do you think Tales of or DQ IX reached 1million full price sales on the west? I picked both Xillia sealed for 20€ each and DQIX for 10 for example. Thats how retail works if you are not GTA or COD in the west. And Nintendo I guess
Edit: On this same note, Amazon ES is currently selling a bundle of Xillia and Xillia 2 DAY ONE editions for 45€ lol.
The reason I am digging into this is because its part of the larger discussion.
I only even started looking into it because I noticed the dates and was also shown their apparent happiness out of its performance. SE announced their shipments proudly before sales figures even came out, as if they had been close to selling that numbers (just look to the thread I linked, and how it skewed expectations), but now it seems they were nowhere near that number.
Seems more like retailers got straddled with a ton more stock than any audience was interested in purchasing... to the point where close to 50% of the stock is unaccounted for in sales.
Hero of Legend
Member
DQ9 likely sold most of its copies at least at near full-price, since Nintendo published the game and IIRC Nintendo-published games, especially high-profile ones hardly ever go down in price.
Some exceptions do apply like Glory of Heracles, most likely got that for $5, but that sold poorly I think.
1st Course
Member
The game obviously didn't do gangbuster numbers anywhere.
However not hard to believe it meet the publisher expectations when you consider it is just PSP > PS4 port + being sold at $60. Doubt it needed sell much to break even.
Well I don't have hard data and can only talk about anecdotes but those DQ9 10€ deals were common back in 2011. Those things didn't happen to pokemon games, mario games, etc, so I think there was some unsold stock waiting for those prices. The size of that unsold stock I couldn't know of course.
We are going a bit OT anyway, my point is that most games drop in price and in the end the numbers add up.
XIII-2 was way more overshipped than LR, It actually surprised me how slow LR dropped in price. It took more than a year to hit 30
This is indeed true. However I do still believe they overestimated the demand by a far margin. You don't ship a million units expecting to only sell 500k and then leaving the rest to depreciate in bargain bins (moreover, I doubt retailers are happy to sit on such stock piles). There must have been a decent amount of confidence in retailers to purchase that much stock from the publisher, and that confidence would come from publisher expectations. (Kind of like how P&DSuperMario shipped a landfill's worth of plastic... and then failed to meet those expectations and will be selling through its initial shipment for a long, long time.)
They may well be happy with its performance for the reasons you stated, but with the slotting in of the FFXV demo and the shipment figures, I think they were expecting considerably more.
vinnygambini
Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
SE did the same thing for FFXIII-2 & FFLR - they vastly over-shipped the title and in turn had many unsold copies left for 20$ at retail.
It's not an uncommon occurrence for modern FF, don't overthink it.
It's not an uncommon occurrence for modern FF, don't overthink it.
Well, as Busaiku would say, Final Fantasy (and Mario) is dead!
Hero of Legend
Member
Kresnik258
Member
I noticed the same actually, at least in the UK.
I found my copy of XIII-2 for a tenner in Tesco about 6 months after launch (maybe slightly longer).
I couldn't even find any copies of Lightning Returns in supermarkets the same amount of time after launch.
Tsutaya's report
- Fire Emblem Fates popularity continued this week. Stock problems were still present and it probably reduced sales.
- Rhythm Heaven and Splatoon recovered positions.
- Persona 4: Dancing All Night is popular too, especially among women.
For next week:
- Yo-kai Watch Busters will be on the top. Pre-orders are so good that you wouldn't think that it's a spin off. Also the new season of the Anime starts this weekend, and it will drive interest the following weeks.
- The Great Ace Attorney has good pre-orders. It's expected to sell on par to Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth (NDS).
- Taiko Drum Master V (Vita) pre-orders are growing. Attention for this too.
- Fire Emblem Fates popularity continued this week. Stock problems were still present and it probably reduced sales.
- Rhythm Heaven and Splatoon recovered positions.
- Persona 4: Dancing All Night is popular too, especially among women.
For next week:
- Yo-kai Watch Busters will be on the top. Pre-orders are so good that you wouldn't think that it's a spin off. Also the new season of the Anime starts this weekend, and it will drive interest the following weeks.
- The Great Ace Attorney has good pre-orders. It's expected to sell on par to Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth (NDS).
- Taiko Drum Master V (Vita) pre-orders are growing. Attention for this too.
test_account
XP-39C²
I bought my brand new copy of DQ9 from ShopTo in March 2013 for £6.85.
Type-0 HD collapsed in price almost immediately, the title was vastly overshipped. That didn't happen with DQIX.
If this isn't about the sequel, that would imply a 200k+ debut.
The chairman of Sega talks in Famitsu about how the state of home console games in Japan seems bad, but that looking at it globally gives it a different impression, and that they'll have home console games to announce at TGS.
shinra-bansho
Member
How well does this compare to historic paid MMO performance.
The only numbers that come immediately to mind are WoW.
Another 40k week for Splatoon confirmed?
I don't see this 200k+ debut.
[NDS] Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth (Capcom) {2009.05.28} - 171.940 / NEW
[NDS] Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth 2 (Capcom) {2011.02.03} - 132.266 / NEW
Recover positions doesn't necessarily mean recover sales.
Oh weird, I was going by japanltdranking. Either the number there is wrong or the Famitsu tracking disparity was that large, but it lists the debut for the first AAI as 201,817. The one for the second is much closer, at 134,760.
Edit: Same with Game Data Museum, so it seems it was just different for Famitsu.
It's harder to say since they keep listing people who subscribed once instead of current subscribers like most MMOs.
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
As far as DQIX is concerned it did sell the majority of its copies at full price and never really saw a price collapse. Though this is a Japanese sales thread s of don't really want to derail into western sales.
Yeah it's a bit misleading. It does mean that FFXIV is only about 1.5 million copies sold away from the last mainline entry, FF XIII. Which is pretty damn impressive for an online FF.
Kresnik258
Member
Only just related, but you questioning IP ownership reminded me of this announced today:
http://gematsu.com/2015/07/hero-must-die-ps-vita-remake-announced
NIS remaking an old G-Mode game, who from what I can tell are a subsidiary of Marvelous AQL. Not quite sure I understand how this came about?
Hamster likely owns a bunch if not all of Jaleco's library.
NIS worked on the Appli Archives releases for Hamster which included some G-Mode releases.
Prior to Marvelous, do you know who owned G-Mode?