Horii has already said that DQXI is not a smartphone game, so there's really no point debating about that as if it's a possibility. But entertaining that line of thought, if there were eventually a mainline DQ game made exclusively for the mobile market, I think it would be very different in distribution and design than a typical DQ game. It would more likely be offered as a free prologue, where anyone can download the app and play the first couple of hours to get the hang of the game and the world/story. Then subsequent chapters would be distributed at a cost, along with microtransactions for cosmetic stuff. There would probably be seasonal quest events with leaderboards and prizes, rare drops at the end of dungeons, etc. The game could be designed entirely as a single player experience and still have many social hooks, like being able to loan out your character(s) to others, progress updates for friends, various activities which require a large number of players to complete the same tasks to overcome, etc.
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Media Create Sales: Week 35, 2014 (Aug 25 - Aug 31)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
I agree
the weird thing is that, somehow, I don't like game-as-a-service, nor MMORPG or online gaming, but...that DQX on 3DS amazed me :|
He's probably adding the rerelease.
Dragon Quest VII (PS1) 3,893,297
Dragon Quest VII [Ultimate Hits] (PS1) 149,701
first 4 chapters for free and last 4 chapters behind payment wall. easy ;p
shinra-bansho
Member
My comment spoke to the nonsensical idea of moving mainline Final Fantasy to handheld.sörine;129146249 said:
The PS4 is the more viable platform in the global market. The home console market is the more viable market in the global gaming market.
The diminishing size of the Japanese dedicated gaming market and the expansion of the European and other markets makes the home market the better bet.
The NDS had an installed base of something like 27M from a quick glance at garaph, when DQIX was released, a figure the 3DS will never reach.
If DQ remains Japanocentric, which it probably will, it's going to diminish regardless of platform choice. Home consoles have declined. Handhelds have declined. Dedicated gaming has declined.
But moving Final Fantasy to the diminishing market segment needlessly is foolishness.
I'm not really sure why it needs stating so often: Japan is not that important anymore.
michaelius
Banned
Hero of Legend
Member
Anyone able to translate this name and article?
異史戦国伝宿業
http://www.famitsu.com/news/201409/09060853.html
It's the "Project S" game Intergrow teased almost a year ago, it's a 3DS game that seems to be a 2D RPG, it's by Mebius who's worked with Mechanic Arms on a few eShop games.
http://game.intergrow.jp/the_project_s/
Would make the thread but I wanted to at least have a verified translation of the title.
異史戦国伝宿業
http://www.famitsu.com/news/201409/09060853.html
It's the "Project S" game Intergrow teased almost a year ago, it's a 3DS game that seems to be a 2D RPG, it's by Mebius who's worked with Mechanic Arms on a few eShop games.
http://game.intergrow.jp/the_project_s/
Would make the thread but I wanted to at least have a verified translation of the title.
They would bancrupt - most people don't get even that far in any game
it's not me that decided to do that with Bravely Default in Japan!
(I know: they did it only now, 18 months after the release, to push the hype for the sequel!)
Japan represents over 50% of combined FF+DQ sales. Moving wholly to PS4/XB1 would diminish that faster than 3DS, which is a platform that can still manage games selling millions in the west anyway.
I agree with your argument for FF, but the same applies to DQ in Japan, to the same or larger degree. It's fashionable to discount Japan but the reality is that it's still important when it comes to these franchises. The figures are too significant to simply ignore.
There's already a thread.
Ishi Sengokuden Shukugou.
You're right! I can't find sales for either the PSone Books or Ultimate Hits reprints of DQVII so they must have been pretty low.
true, but Japan is the only thing that matters for several franchises like Monster Hunter, and Dragon Quest.
shinra-bansho
Member
It's important when it comes to Dragon Quest. It's important for Yakuza. It's important for Tales. It's important for Monster Hunter. It's important for certain titles.
It's not "fashionable" to discount Japan. It's reality.
I don't necessarily agree that the move to home consoles is a good idea for DQ. I don't think they need to be on the same platform.
But again, I was speaking towards your question as to why not move in reverse. Moving in reverse would relegate the Square side of Square Enix into even more irrelevance than now.
The 3DS can sell millions of Nintendo games in the West. Which is an important qualifier. There's nothing to suggest it can sell 5M copies of Final Fantasy XV.
As it stands, a franchise that is going to diminish regardless because of its regional dependency is being moved to a platform that is selling poorly.
It's not "fashionable" to discount Japan. It's reality.
I don't necessarily agree that the move to home consoles is a good idea for DQ. I don't think they need to be on the same platform.
But again, I was speaking towards your question as to why not move in reverse. Moving in reverse would relegate the Square side of Square Enix into even more irrelevance than now.
The 3DS can sell millions of Nintendo games in the West. Which is an important qualifier. There's nothing to suggest it can sell 5M copies of Final Fantasy XV.
As it stands, a franchise that is going to diminish regardless because of its regional dependency is being moved to a platform that is selling poorly.
Or Yakuza, just to exclude the handheld/console spin.
Hero of Legend
Member
FFXIII couldn't sell 5m copies in the west either. Outside Monster Hunter, only Nintendo franchises have been the ones on level with mainline FF to ever release on 3DS so I'm not convinced it's quite as significant a qualifier as you state. There's nothing to really indicate a 3DS FFXV couldn't sell millions in the west either, we have no real indicator for it.
Given that sales figures for DQ in Japan alone rival FF in the west, claiming "Japan just isn't important" in this context seems like willful ignorance. Perhaps you aren't being fashionable. Perhaps you're just being disingenuous.
I have a little question regarding Japan and the faltering console market. The common explanation here is always that Japan is a portable nation, for reasons such as limited space in the apartments and long commutes.
My question is then: Why then were consoles popular in the past? What has changed in the past decade? Have apartments gotten smaller? Commutes longer and more frequent? Or did the Japanese populace always want handheld gaming but the hardware just wasn't there?
My question is then: Why then were consoles popular in the past? What has changed in the past decade? Have apartments gotten smaller? Commutes longer and more frequent? Or did the Japanese populace always want handheld gaming but the hardware just wasn't there?
That's not a Capcom game.
shinra-bansho
Member
FFXIII was circa 7M with about 2 of that in Japan. It's been discussed in the threads before, but for such a franchise Japan could be wiped off the face of the Earth at this stage and it doesn't ultimately change the franchise and platform choices.sörine;129155363 said:
Japan is important for Dragon Quest. I stated as much. Sales figures for DQ in Japan reached 4M on the massive software buying NDS, which the 3DS will never come close to.
It's disingenuous to combine the sales, make some bizarre calculation of half those sales coming from Japan when it's horribly skewed by one of the franchises, pretend that the Japanese market and global market isn't markedly changed from 2009, and extrapolate to suggest that future iterations together would have been better off on the platform that exists in a dramatically shrinking market segment.
I can't prove a negative, I can only point out that there is nothing proof positive to suggest that there's a viable audience at all let alone a more viable audience for Final Fantasy on 3DS.
If you want some sort of indication as to how viable that sort of software is on the platform you can look towards the plethora of publishers rushing to put their mainline titles in global franchises onto the system. Oh wait.
Does anyone have any info about the Sengoku 3DS game? If so I'll add it to the list.
Also did I miss anything else?
Road to TGS™:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-zF0jwT0Y1a3kcNbnRJYt323BgFtXwmAZHRF2vwzkZU/edit?usp=sharing (Not updated yet)
The World End Eclipse
Platform: iOS/Android/Vita/PC
Genre: Online Theater RPG
Publisher: Sega
Developer: Sega (Valk Team)
Special Notes:
-Free to play and made by some of the Valkyria Chronicles staff/leads
-There's cross-platform co-op.
-Thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=891527
-Article: http://gematsu.com/2014/09/sega-ann...-rpg-world-end-eclipse-ps-vita-smartphones-pc
Final Fantasy World Wide Words
Platform: iOS/Android
Genre: Typing Battle RPG
Publisher: Square Enix
Developer: SmileBoom
Special Notes:
-Play as Final Fantasy characters in a typing battle RPG. The game is free 2 play.
-Yes, this mobile game about typing. You type Final Fantasy words and terms.
-Thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=891572
Hajime no Ippo
Platform: PS3
Genre: Fighting
Publisher: Bandai Namco
Developer: Unclear
Special Notes:
-Might be in first person.
-Article: http://gematsu.com/2014/09/hajime-ippo-game-announced-ps3
Taiko Drum Master: Tokumori
Platform: Wii U
Genre: Rhythm
Publisher: Bandai Namco
Developer: Unclear
Special Notes:
-Our first Wii U game of the Road to TGS.
-Article: http://gematsu.com/2014/09/taiko-drum-master-tokumori-announced-wii-u
Bokosuka Girls: Tatsunoko Gakuen Climax
Platform: Vita
Genre: Vita Game
Publisher: Tatsunoko Productions
Developer: Unclear
Special Notes:
-"Over 50 characters are set to appear, including Yatterman 2, Jun the Swan, Gold Lightan, and Boyakki."
-"By wearing the suits of Tatsunoko heroes, the game’s heroines are granted their powers, resulting in strip battles. It features cut-in scenes, such as when a character’s clothes are torn, and melee, shooting, and assault-based fighting. There are mini-games in which you touch the girls while they sleep, as well."
-Yep... definitely a Vita game.
-Article: http://gematsu.com/2014/09/bokosuka-girls-tatsunoko-gakuen-climax-announced-ps-vita
Also did I miss anything else?
Road to TGS™:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-zF0jwT0Y1a3kcNbnRJYt323BgFtXwmAZHRF2vwzkZU/edit?usp=sharing (Not updated yet)
The World End Eclipse
Platform: iOS/Android/Vita/PC
Genre: Online Theater RPG
Publisher: Sega
Developer: Sega (Valk Team)
Special Notes:
-Free to play and made by some of the Valkyria Chronicles staff/leads
-There's cross-platform co-op.
-Thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=891527
-Article: http://gematsu.com/2014/09/sega-ann...-rpg-world-end-eclipse-ps-vita-smartphones-pc
Final Fantasy World Wide Words
Platform: iOS/Android
Genre: Typing Battle RPG
Publisher: Square Enix
Developer: SmileBoom
Special Notes:
-Play as Final Fantasy characters in a typing battle RPG. The game is free 2 play.
-Yes, this mobile game about typing. You type Final Fantasy words and terms.
-Thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=891572
Hajime no Ippo
Platform: PS3
Genre: Fighting
Publisher: Bandai Namco
Developer: Unclear
Special Notes:
-Might be in first person.
-Article: http://gematsu.com/2014/09/hajime-ippo-game-announced-ps3
Taiko Drum Master: Tokumori
Platform: Wii U
Genre: Rhythm
Publisher: Bandai Namco
Developer: Unclear
Special Notes:
-Our first Wii U game of the Road to TGS.
-Article: http://gematsu.com/2014/09/taiko-drum-master-tokumori-announced-wii-u
Bokosuka Girls: Tatsunoko Gakuen Climax
Platform: Vita
Genre: Vita Game
Publisher: Tatsunoko Productions
Developer: Unclear
Special Notes:
-"Over 50 characters are set to appear, including Yatterman 2, Jun the Swan, Gold Lightan, and Boyakki."
-"By wearing the suits of Tatsunoko heroes, the game’s heroines are granted their powers, resulting in strip battles. It features cut-in scenes, such as when a character’s clothes are torn, and melee, shooting, and assault-based fighting. There are mini-games in which you touch the girls while they sleep, as well."
-Yep... definitely a Vita game.
-Article: http://gematsu.com/2014/09/bokosuka-girls-tatsunoko-gakuen-climax-announced-ps-vita
I don't think there's a definitive answer to that but this is my interpretation, based on what I think and know.
I think it's less about looking at it entirely as "Japan is a portable nation" and more about looking at why people in a certain region or culture play games. In Japan, the videogame boom started taking off in the 80s when times were really good for the economy. During the bubble economy there was a lot of money to throw around for that generation, resulting in expensive hobbies being very viable. Stuff like LD players, videogame machines, expensive game carts, they were very viable products for a lot of people who were willing to spend. Parents spending on the children, etc. This created a culture where kids were very exposed to such things growing up and formed a connection to them. Even when times got worse in Japan during the 90s, it didn't stop this young generation from growing up in to students and working adults, and using their spending money to continue to boost this industry they became so fond of.
Yes, people commute a lot, and living space is limited, but it's not so limited that you can't have consoles. That's just rubbish. But it does tie into the great changes we've seen in the last ten years. Portables got more and more advanced to a point where they could offer familiar gaming experiences on the go. That was probably the first stage of change, I would say around the DS/PSP era. Phones also got more and more advanced, and became an essential tool everyone needed, even children. This wasn't the case in the 80s or 90s. So this was another big change in society. Now, we can combine those two factors along with the fact that the Japanese economy has continued to suffer. There was no recovery back to the golden age.
As people grow older and start their own families, it is increasingly less likely that they will build the same cultural foundations for their kids that they had when they grew up. It would be a different foundation. So buying expensive consoles are less common, buying (comparatively) more expensive console games becomes less common too, and instead they get kids cheaper portable systems with cheaper games, or just let them play games on their smartphones which are mostly "free" anyway. These kids as they grow older will be used to that level of entertainment, and not have any nostalgia for console experiences. Obviously there are still kids who will be interested in those things, but the point is that it's less of a norm and more of a luxury. That results in market decline for consoles, and it's hard to really see it going away or the decline stopping, because culturally it's moving more and more in the other direction.
Sorry man, apparently Famitsu did not put out the numbers, although I believe Media Create is more reliable honestly.
Only japanese article I found was for one store that said Titanfall and Dead Rising 3 sold well and they sold out but that's not really telling us anything.
But please wave your flag for good luck. lol.
The last FFXIII figure we have is 6.6m worldwide in 2013. It couldn't break 5m in the west and Japan represents over 30% of worldwide sales. If you wiped Japan off the face of the Earth that'd represent a pretty huge immediate decline for the series.
I'm not certain of appreciable decline for Japan would be in DQ's future on 3DS either. Franchises like Monster Hunter or Animal Crossing have weathered the userbase decline remarkably well and the meteoric rise of Yo-Kai Watch shows 3DS can have DS like potential for the genre. You talk about a dramatically shrinking market segment with 3DS, but PS4 represents both a dramatically shrinking market segment (PS3 with FF) and a catastrophically shrinking market segment (DS with DQ) for Japan. And like it or not Japan is over half the worldwide sales we're talking about here.
I wouldn't say looking at total sales is disingenuous either. Especially not in this context. If the argument is that FF & DQ need to be on the same platform (and maybe I need to clarify, that isn't an argument I agree with) then it makes some sense to look at how these franchises sell cumulatively and where and consider the health of potential platforms in those markets. It seems far less disingenous than simply repeating fashionable mantras utterly divorced from the actual numbers we have.
Long story short, the problem is appealing software in a sustainable quantity. There is a huge lack in this department when it comes to consoles in Japan. Even PSV has a big problem in this segment despite beeing a handheld, which is reflected by slightly above 3.2m small userbase. Sure it´s performing better than both consoles but that´s due to actual constant support.
Looking at consoles right now it looks like something like this. Nintendo supported box versus " 3rd party supported" box. Sure that´s very simplified, for example, PS4 software mostly is multiplattform, also lacks in quantity and let´s be honest Sonys1st party software mostly is irrelevant in Japan anyway, besides Gran Tourismo.
The only system that has somewhat like a balance when it comes to 1st party and 3rd party support is the 3DS in Japan and suprise it is by far the most successful current-gen system. Despite missing out several big IPs like the Final Fantasy main series.
I´ll be frank the only reasonable way to push the console market in Japan to a decent level is to create a similar balance also on consoles. But similar to last gen most publisher prefer to run against a wall but this time I doubt they will even reach PS3 sales.
They have to save *some* mobile games for TGS.
Fixed that for ya, Nirolak
Anyway, there's a thread somewhere for the Taiko game, but nothing much for now (no pics or anything). Guess we'll get a trailer really soon.
There's that um... Skylanders Kamen Rider thingy probably announcing soon!
Oh damn, actually forgot about that one! But wasn't it revealed already?
By the way, noticed something major for Famitsu:
Escape Adventure: The Black Fog of Demise (3DS) – 7/7/8/7
Aqua Moto Racing 3D (3DS) – 5/6/7/6
Looks like they're actually starting to review downloadable games?
shinra-bansho
Member
Except those numbers aren't indicative of the current and future market. They're indicative of the market of yesteryear.sörine;129167822 said:
Mobile continues to encroach on handheld including in Japan, while Japan's relevance and relative dedicated market size continues to decline - like it or not, that's not just a mantra.
I'm far more convinced FF can maintain its level of sales in Western markets, given the relative stability of the core console space, than DQ will be able to reach its franchise peak in Japan again. But then your mileage may vary.
This line of discourse stemmed from your suggestion of why not the reverse. The reverse leaves SE in a worse position going forward as a global software publisher. That doesn't necessarily mean the status quo consolidation of franchises is ideal either.
I used sales from the last non-MMO mainline entries about 4 years back but I'd agree the world these games released in isn't the world if today. In the world of today Dragon Quest has remained relatively stable sales wise with it's 3DS spinoffs and remakes while today Final Fantasy seems rooted in ever steeper decline for it's XIII sequels. Today FF is a diminishing franchise, the riskier franchise, while Dragon Quest is sort of trucking along steady and reliable. FF doesn't strike me as the more inmediately likely of the two to maintain sales, in any region or on any platform. It's not the sure thing, Dragon Quest is.
Mobile isn't simply encroaching on handhelds, it's impacting all platforms and worldwide too. It's changing the way games are not only played but also how they're purchased and for how much. We're already seeing Steam follow similar trends, this isn't a phenomenon that impacts only handhelds even if they're the most immediately recognizable "victim" of the shift. Consoles this gen are also selling less overall than they did last gen, despite the record setting launch of PS4 and XB1 those platforms aren't maintaining that lead.
This response was to your suggestion that Japan didn't matter, that's it's insignificant in either sales or consideration. The numbers really just don't reflect that at all though, even today. It's an empty mantra.
Man, I hope you are around to talk about the actual numbers in the week to come....
I though that was already out?
Thanks for the input, Duckroll and Darius. I agree that consoles being relatively more expensive, especially in a market with cheap phone games on devices that people have anyway, plus just a difficulty in software supply, are important factors. The console->mobile shift just seems so dramatic to me. The entire home console market that was so enormous during the PS2 generation, completely collapsed.
Any more thoughts from Japan-GAF?
Any more thoughts from Japan-GAF?
A few weeks ago I said I was surprised to see Bandai Namco not put out an Ippo game on PS3 for the new anime. Bandai Namco listened. It's probably a pile of poop if they're only announcing it now when their release window is this year.
The Victorius Boxer games sold well on PS2 , so it'll be interesting to see how it performs.
The Victorius Boxer games sold well on PS2 , so it'll be interesting to see how it performs.
DQXI is going to be released for the 3DS in Japan in 2015 Winter. I know this from checking Tsutaya, Comgnet and Amazon everyday.
They can later port or stream it to any other system they want.
They're confirming all the download sales.
xbox 360 final: 1.65 million
So the 360 sold about half of the Xbox first week, but it went on to sell 3.5 times as much.
If the Xbox One is confirmed to have moved 30k, it continues the trend, since it's about half of the 360 first week. That means the Xbox One is going to finish with 3.5x what the Xbox 360 did, reaching ~5.8 million. It also matches what the blog was saying about tripled sales.
They can later port or stream it to any other system they want.
They're confirming all the download sales.
xbox final: 428k
xbox 360 final: 1.65 million
So the 360 sold about half of the Xbox first week, but it went on to sell 3.5 times as much.
If the Xbox One is confirmed to have moved 30k, it continues the trend, since it's about half of the 360 first week. That means the Xbox One is going to finish with 3.5x what the Xbox 360 did, reaching ~5.8 million. It also matches what the blog was saying about tripled sales.
I'm not sure about that 2015 date. 2016 is the 30th anniversary of the Dragon Quest series. I do believe that it will be released on 3DS first though. The story for all versions of the game will be the same. The PS4/PS3 ports could use the Dragon Quest Heroes assets.
Sammy Samusu
Member
#JusticeForYodobashi
Nice troll attempt Road, but I only believe people who got an uncle working at Nintendo, and who get direct messages from aliens.
Sorry.
Here's my personal take on it:
I think modern Japanese culture now carries a heavy stigma against adults who are into hardcore games. The sort of mainstream non-nerd semi-hardcore audience that exists in the West (ie. people who play well-known console games like Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed) just doesn't seem to exist in Japan at all. Apart from smartphone gaming, video games seem to be purely an otaku thing now. There is no direct market equivalent for these sort of games in Japan, in terms of a certain type of adult mainstream audience. Monster Hunter is probably the closest thing (in terms of "mainstream hardcore game"), but then again I am pretty sure that it's mostly played by teenagers, not so much by actual adults.
Another factor that killed the Japanese AAA game industry is the rapid increase of development costs for AAA games. The insistence on Japan to remain insular in its own games instead of being more global like the rest of the world has pushed them to a point where AAA game development has become unsustainable, to a point where they pretty much gave up and went handheld instead, and the market followed.
It'd be interesting if we could see the average age (and gender because it's important too) of the people that buys the big IPs like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest.
I think they've said they want to catch younger players with the Monster games. And Type-0 was many people first Final Fantasy. Going by the setting and all that it should have appealed to teens, right?
But those old series must have a big base of users that are in their 20s and 30s. They're quite old.
BishopLamont
Banned
After the multiplatform, big screen comments and the fact that dqh exists tells me se will put dq11 on ps platforms one way or another.
surely it'll be 3ds first and foremost and if they do stick to exclusive i think 3ds has more chance.
3ds first, smartphone/ps3/ps4/vita later, I wouldn't be surprised if they utilise the cloud in some way just because that seems to be their gimmick right now.
considering how the market is atm and has been, i think a multiplatform route was taken by se and i think thats the safest choice possible.
surely it'll be 3ds first and foremost and if they do stick to exclusive i think 3ds has more chance.
3ds first, smartphone/ps3/ps4/vita later, I wouldn't be surprised if they utilise the cloud in some way just because that seems to be their gimmick right now.
considering how the market is atm and has been, i think a multiplatform route was taken by se and i think thats the safest choice possible.
It is for a brand like DQ, whose success relies on Japan, dq will make people buy hardware, i think multiplatform is gonna happen.
consoles were unrivaled in terms of exclusive content and was the arcades of the home, consoles are merely just boxes now that don't rely on exclusive software anymore, with the exception of nintendo hardware.
Sammy Samusu
Member
Have you posted the new Attack on Titan game (big update) for 3DS?