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[Oregano]

I think part of why they only pick up the most notable titles is because the less your using a console the less attention you will be paying to its lineup. It's hard for a big brand for Mario or Zelda to pass you by but it's really easy for stuff like Bayonetta 2 and Project Zero 5.

If releases were more frequent there would be more interest in general, it might not help sell systems ornthe biggest games but helps a lot with smaller ones.

It's something that Vita has benefitted from immensely.

EDIT: I don't think Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest are that much of outliers either. They are the two biggest third party brands in Japan.

 

[SmokyDave]

lol, alright.

It's true. I could say that the Vita was more appealing than the 3DS*, but I'd only be lying to myself when I looked at the bigger picture.


*based solely on Portuguese sales.

 

[BlackJace]

PS4 will also probably eclipse WiiU's LTD before the end of its 1st year.

How would it do that?

 

[test_account]

This is a thread about sales in japan (not worldwide).

True, but worldwide business for the japanese companies can be very important.

 

[Bitanator]

PS4 will also probably eclipse WiiU's LTD before the end of its 1st year.

Even if the WiiU stops selling right now any units, it will be hard to imagine the PS4 selling close to 1.3 million units on the back of no games at all through February.

 

[Busaiku]

PS4 will also probably eclipse WiiU's LTD before the end of its 1st year.

Uhh, it's not gonna come close.
Even 1 million seems like a stretch at this point.

 

[1st Course]

edit: fuck

 

[theprodigy]

PS4 will also probably eclipse WiiU's LTD before the end of its 1st year.

This doesn't make much sense, it either already did that worldwide or isn't going to come close in Japan.

edit: beat you to it 1st Course

 

[shinra-bansho]

Japan's tie ratio is shit for the Wii U, just look at how lopsided the shipments are.

edit: I know shipments=/=sales, but the difference is pretty telling

tie ratios from Nintendo's report as of June 30, 2014:

Japan: 3.44
Americas: 6.26
Other: 6.33

and given the US tie ratio (even though it doesn't include digital or bundles, which there are actually a ton of the latter in the US), chances are the latter two are probably somewhat overshipped

Mixing trackers, but based on Dengeki's software sales numbers, retail sell-through tie ratio for the system in Japan should be ~2.8.

(FY14 ~1.4M so far, FY13 ~3M, no FY number in archive for 2012, but summing biggest sellers gets to around 900K, rounded to 1M, could be slight lowball - if someone has the FY2012 SW will revise.)

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

obviously WW guys
edit: since WiiU is expected to have lifetime sales of what 15-17 million. LTD was the wrong phrase.

 

[impact]

obviously WW guys

Pretty sure that's already been done.

 

[Busaiku]

Worldwide it happened by like March.

 

[Mory Dunz]

The Wii U userbase isn't buying nearly as much as they should.

But the "What are they playing" argument is a little weird. You have to consider them as human beings and not numbers.

As in, personally, I could buy Hyrule Warriors. After all, it's a Wii U game, and what else is there for Wii U owners to play??

But my thought process is "I could buy this for 60 dollars. I'm not sure if I want to though. I'm kind of fine with playing MK8 and DK for right now." And the game doesn't get bought. I mean, I don't really buy a game just because it comes out.

This doesn't completely apply to the Wii U since its situation is pathetic, but more to the general "What are they playing?" statement for consoles. Sometimes, people just play games that they already have,

 

[Oregano]

The Wii U userbase isn't buying nearly as much as they should.

But the "What are they playing" argument is a little weird. You have to consider them as human beings and not numbers.

As in, personally, I could buy Hyrule Warriors. After all, it's a Wii U game, and what else is there for Wii U owners to play??

But my thought process is "I could buy this for 60 dollars. I'm not sure if I want to though. I'm kind of fine with playing MK8 and DK for right now." And the game doesn't get bought. I mean, I don't really buy a game just because it comes out.

This doesn't completely apply to the Wii U since it's situation is pathetic, but more to the general "What are they playing?" statement for consoles. Sometimes, people just play games that they already have,

Or if they're Nintendo fans they could be playing Smash Bros right now. The vast, vast majority of Wii U owners probably own a 3DS as well.

 

[Exile20]

Fatal Frame sales

 

[Darius]

Looking back at the hardware numbers when Bayonetta 2 launched (and also this week with PZ to some extent), there wasn´t a notable hardwarebump, therefore the game basically just sold to the existing userbase. It´s more irritating to see that there is a relative large number of self-proclaimed hardcore gamers that don´t buy a system despite having games they actually want to play and rather ignore an excellent game just for the sake of beeing an other companies chearleader.

It´s somewhat understandable that casual gamers just buy a single system and think they are good to go but among "hardcoregamers" it´s really weird, especially considering that money isn´t always the biggest issue, actually a systems-hardware isn´t that big of an investment considering that in the long run you invest multiple time more money in software, to see console wars taking priority over enjoying excellent games is quite sad actually. The most vocal seem to be Sony enthusiast, be it MH (in every damn Monster Hunter thread), DQ, Bayonetta, Tomb Raider or any other Indygame on kickstarter portbegging seems to be far more prevalent.

From a similar mindset also games like Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon and Last Story were basically ignored by a large part of the self-proclaimed hardcore gamers just for beeing on the wrong systems, really funny how the focus among certain JRPG-fans shifted to Atelier series and other lolicon niche JRPG instead. In the process Mistwalker was damaged, reduced to making smartphone games for at least some years and videogame fans left with even less options, when it comes to somewhat high-budget JRPGs. Great job "hardcore gamers"/console warriors lol

 

[Herb Alpert]

Looking back at the hardware numbers when Bayonetta 2 launched (and also this week with PZ to some extent), there wasn´t a notable hardwarebump, therefore the game basically just sold to the existing userbase. It´s more irritating to see that there is a relative large number of self-proclaimed hardcore gamers that don´t buy a system despite having games they actually want to play and rather ignore an excellent game just for the sake of beeing an other companies chearleader.

It´s somewhat understandable that casual gamers just buy a single system and think they are good to go but among "hardcoregamers" it´s really weird, especially considering that money isn´t always the biggest issue, actually a systems-hardware isn´t that big of an investment considering that in the long run you invest multiple time more money in software, to see console wars taking priority over enjoying excellent games is quite sad actually. The most vocal seem to be Sony enthusiast, be it MH (in every damn Monster Hunter thread), DQ, Bayonetta, Tomb Raider or any other Indygame on kickstarter portbegging seems to be far more prevalent.

From a similar mindset also games like Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon and Last Story were basically ignored by a large part of the self-proclaimed hardcore gamers just for beeing on the wrong systems, really funny how the focus among certain JRPG-fans shifted to Atelier series and other lolicon niche JRPG instead. In the process Mistwalker was damaged, reduced to making smartphone games for at least some years and videogame fans left with even less options, when it comes to somewhat high-budget JRPGs. Great job "hardcore gamers"/console warriors lol

but real hardcore games are on PS4! that's where the audience is!

 

[hongcha]

Man, that haikyuu game bombed. Apparently as a game it is complete garbage as well, so I don't expect any legs.

Happy to see the sen no kiseki 2 and dangan ronpa numbers. I thought dungeon travelers 2 would have sold more, but I guess they had a small shipment and there wasn't great demand for a port of a niche psp drpg.

 

[Pennywise83]

Man, that haikyuu game bombed. Apparently as a game it is complete garbage as well, so I don't expect any legs.

Happy to see the sen no kiseki 2'and dangan ronpa numbers. I thought dungeon travelers 2 would have sold more, but I guess they had a small shipment and there wasn't great demand for a port of a niche psp drpg.

The game sold between 60% and 80% of its first shipment. And it debuted similarly to the Kuroko's Basketball 3DS game. It will have some legs as long as the anime is running and the target audience is not the typical day-one purchaser.

 

[duckroll]

The game sold between 60% and 80% of its first shipment. And it debuted similarly to the Kuroko's Basketball 3DS game. It will have some legs as long as the anime is running and the target audience is not the typical day-one purchaser.

The anime ended 2 weeks ago.

 

[Busaiku]

The TV show ended.

 

[Pennywise83]

The anime ended 2 weeks ago.

It will have less legs, then, but it should not have any trouble in selling the first shipment, and getting a new one (e.g. LTD around 75-80k units).

 

[hongcha]

And like I said the game is not good. All the reviews I have read are really negative, the volleyball part is just a lazy card game, which seems to have pissed off users.

 

[SmokyDave]

Looking back at the hardware numbers when Bayonetta 2 launched (and also this week with PZ to some extent), there wasn´t a notable hardwarebump, therefore the game basically just sold to the existing userbase. It´s more irritating to see that there is a relative large number of self-proclaimed hardcore gamers that don´t buy a system despite having games they actually want to play and rather ignore an excellent game just for the sake of beeing an other companies chearleader.

It´s somewhat understandable that casual gamers just buy a single system and think they are good to go but among "hardcoregamers" it´s really weird, especially considering that money isn´t always the biggest issue, actually a systems-hardware isn´t that big of an investment considering that in the long run you invest multiple time more money in software, to see console wars taking priority over enjoying excellent games is quite sad actually. The most vocal seem to be Sony enthusiast, be it MH (in every damn Monster Hunter thread), DQ, Bayonetta, Tomb Raider or any other Indygame on kickstarter portbegging seems to be far more prevalent.

From a similar mindset also games like Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon and Last Story were basically ignored by a large part of the self-proclaimed hardcore gamers just for beeing on the wrong systems, really funny how the focus among certain JRPG-fans shifted to Atelier series and other lolicon niche JRPG instead. In the process Mistwalker was damaged, reduced to making smartphone games for at least some years and videogame fans left with even less options, when it comes to somewhat high-budget JRPGs. Great job "hardcore gamers"/console warriors lol

Man, you make me glad I'm a casual gamer. All that just sounds like political bullshit with a thinly concealed 'physician, heal thyself' taint to it. I'd hate to feel obliged to spend £1000 and maintain two monthly subscriptions just to claim a label that most right-minded people would actively shun.

 

[Pennywise83]

And like I said the game is not good. All the reviews I have read are really negative, the volleyball part is just a lazy card game, which seems to have pissed off users.

It seems that in many occasions bad WOM did not impact sw sales; e.g. DQX on 3DS. given the audience (I presume not very informed gamers and fans of the anime / manga), WOM is less impactful.

 

[boingball]

Expected the Xbox One, the All-in-One Entertainment System, to hit triple digits. If it stabilizes above 1k I would be surprised.

Seems like Sony was right that Destiny is their most important fall game. Its the only PS4 title in the Top 20. On the other hand this means that the PS4 will not outsell the Wii U in the foreseeable future.

 

[Busaiku]

It seems that in many occasions bad WOM did not impact sw sales; e.g. DQX on 3DS. given the audience (I presume not very informed gamers and fans of the anime / manga), WOM is less impactful.

I think it might have affected things, but it's just demand for Dragon Quest X on 3DS far outstripped SE's expectations.
I mean, if they were ship like 500k cards at this point, I don't think they'll hit it, whereas they probably could've done so at launch.

 

[hongcha]

It seems that in many occasions bad WOM did not impact sw sales; e.g. DQX on 3DS. given the audience (I presume not very informed gamers and fans of the anime / manga), WOM is less impactful.

Well, it will be interesting to see what happens with Haikyuu. Whether it follows the pattern of kuroneko's basketball and goes toward 75k LTD, or if the bad WOM kills its legs. Also note Kuroneko has 23 reviews on Amazon Jp, average 4.5 stars. Haikyuu has 18 reviews, average 2 stars. So Kuroneko probably had good WOM.

 

[duckroll]

-long rant about hardcore gamers-

I'll like to address this with a different point of view. I think that on the internet, vocal minorities seem more important to the larger scheme of things than they really are. Is it sad to see people complaining about a game not being on their platform of choice even though they would otherwise buy the game? Sure. But how big is the contingent of people to begin with? Do they represent a sizable percentage of actual buyers? I doubt so.

So then what is the problem here? The problem is that the WiiU is not an attractive platform on the market and the reality is that it limits the sales potential of games, especially those which are not super popular on their own, but would benefit the most from being part of a platform which already has mainstream support. What do I mean? Let's look at some of the other games you mentioned like Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey. For such games to be seen as very successful in Japan, I would say the bar is about 500k. They're big production value RPGs, and we've seen that there is a market for these games.

Now, here's the part I think you might be missing - once you're looking to sell 500k or more, your main market is -not- "hardcore gamers" at all. They're a general audience. Hardcore gamers most likely did buy a 360 just to play those games. They didn't sell zero copies after all, but the reality is that there aren't that many gamers who take their hobby so seriously that they would buy a console just to play one or two single player games because of the creators behind them. That's a tiny market.

The business reality is that to the vast majority of people, gaming is not a necessity, and it is probably not the first or second or third thing that comes to their mind at any given time during the day. They don't care who really makes the games, some of them don't even really care how good a game is. If they play games, it's because other people are doing it and it's the in thing. It's something to pass the time, like watching a movie with friends, or hanging out at a cafe. The biggest success in the gaming industry comes from successfully infiltrating this mainstream audience as something new, interesting, or trendy. In Japan we can look at the PS1 era, the DS era, the Wii era.

So when things go badly because certain platforms simply failed to capture the attention of the larger public, it can seem like a bunch of people who should otherwise be buying a good game are ignoring it because of system wars or whatever. That's not true. It's just on the internet. The reality is that there just aren't that many people in the world who care that much about games. If it's popular and everyone is doing it, they're there. If their friends, classmates, or colleagues aren't talking about it, it wouldn't even cross their mind at all.

 

[Darius]

Man, you make me glad I'm a casual gamer. All that just sounds like political bullshit with a thinly concealed 'physician, heal thyself' taint to it. I'd hate to feel obliged to spend £1000 and maintain two monthly subscriptions just to claim a label that most right-minded people would actively shun.

I disagree I rather do it this way than ending up with overhyped but most of the time still shovelware-esque indy games.

 

[Pennywise83]

Well, it will be interesting to see what happens with Haikyuu. Whether it follows the pattern of kuroneko's basketball and goes toward 75k LTD, or if the bad WOM kills its legs. Also note Kuroneko has 23 reviews on Amazon Jp, average 4.5 stars. Haikyuu has 18 reviews, average 2 stars. So Kuroneko probably had good WOM.

What is important to notice is that the game cannot be define a bomb right now.

 

[SmokyDave]

I disagree I rather do it this way than ending up with overhyped but most of the time still shovelware-esque indy games.

I think your reply speaks for itself. Now that you've taken a swipe at mobile games and indies*, I can see you're definitely a 'hardcore gamer'.

*Or should I say 'indies', as we both know what you're actually getting at.

 

[boiled goose]

Doesn't really work given that the PS4 is right alongside the Wii U even though it's had very little appealing software released. Not to mention the worldwide numbers.

Basically you just sound a bit bitter.

At least ps4 was clearly made for the west.
Wiiu was made for noone.

Not even nintendo. The fact that it has cost them so much money points to how big of a mistake it was by iwata.

In a way it combined all the worst aspects of the wii, the 3ds, and nintendos continuing ineptitude to innovate and lead in the online and digital content management space without any of the positives and a hell of a lot more cost.

The ds and wii should be case studies for successful products and wiiu should be one for failure. It is truly fascinating.

 

[hongcha]

What is important to notice is that the game cannot be define a bomb right now.

You are correct that it is not a bomb for the type of game it is. I mistakenly thought Kuroneko sold 75k first week, when that was actually its LTD. It sold 40-45k first week, which is right in line with haikyuu's sales.

However, noticing its poor reception is also important right now, as that is a clear difference from the Kuroneko situation.

 

[MSMrRound]

At least, I wouldn't make a purchase like that

You might be surprised by the amount of people that pretty much brought a PS4 just for FIFA15 and nothing else.

There's plenty of casual owners like them.

 

[Darius]

I'll like to address this with a different point of view. I think that on the internet, vocal minorities seem more important to the larger scheme of things than they really are. Is it sad to see people complaining about a game not being on their platform of choice even though they would otherwise buy the game? Sure. But how big is the contingent of people to begin with? Do they represent a sizable percentage of actual buyers? I doubt so.

So then what is the problem here? The problem is that the WiiU is not an attractive platform on the market and the reality is that it limits the sales potential of games, especially those which are not super popular on their own, but would benefit the most from being part of a platform which already has mainstream support. What do I mean? Let's look at some of the other games you mentioned like Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey. For such games to be seen as very successful in Japan, I would say the bar is about 500k. They're big production value RPGs, and we've seen that there is a market for these games.

Now, here's the part I think you might be missing - once you're looking to sell 500k or more, your main market is -not- "hardcore gamers" at all. They're a general audience. Hardcore gamers most likely did buy a 360 just to play those games. They didn't sell zero copies after all, but the reality is that there aren't that many gamers who take their hobby so seriously that they would buy a console just to play one or two single player games because of the creators behind them. That's a tiny market.

The business reality is that to the vast majority of people, gaming is not a necessity, and it is probably not the first or second or third thing that comes to their mind at any given time during the day. They don't care who really makes the games, some of them don't even really care how good a game is. If they play games, it's because other people are doing it and it's the in thing. It's something to pass the time, like watching a movie with friends, or hanging out at a cafe. The biggest success in the gaming industry comes from successfully infiltrating this mainstream audience as something new, interesting, or trendy. In Japan we can look at the PS1 era, the DS era, the Wii era.

So when things go badly because certain platforms simply failed to capture the attention of the larger public, it can seem like a bunch of people who should otherwise be buying a good game are ignoring it because of system wars or whatever. That's not true. It's just on the internet. The reality is that there just aren't that many people in the world who care that much about games. If it's popular and everyone is doing it, they're there. If their friends, classmates, or colleagues aren't talking about it, it wouldn't even cross their mind at all.

It´s a minority sure, I don´t think I implied them making up millions of people, I won´t even try a guess, but I also wouldn´t downplay them to be an insignificant number either. About the mentioned games and systems it´s obvious that the sales of those games aren´t zero, there actually are open-minded hardcore gamers after all.

 

[Akainu]

Where are we on the second chapter localization for trails in the sky?

 

[John Harker]

It´s a minority sure, I don´t think I implied them making up millions of people, I won´t even try a guess, but I also wouldn´t downplay them to be an insignificant number either. About the mentioned games and systems it´s obvious that the sales of those games aren´t zero, there actually are open-minded hardcore gamers after all.

It's probably like 20% of the audience

 

[theprodigy]

It's probably like 20% of the audience

of the guys that actually buy these games

 

[Aostia]

It is nintendo fault not being able to resomate with that minority making them become opinion leaders among their social environment, increasing the audience.
Even if I think that commercially the main wiiu issue was not communicating in the right way the console for their family target. It is a bad hybrid

 

[Guamu]

It's sales like these that led to the stigma of Nintendo gamers only buying games with Mario. I'd wait to see how Bayo performs in the West to see if this stigma will continue to exist.

Of course it will.

Even in the highly improbable and almost impossible case that bayonetta has "big" numbers, the stigma won't go away.

 

[Mockingbird]

So now Nintendo has no games with a release date on the Wii-U, with Captain Toad and Smash Bros. only having a Winter 2014 tentative date.

 

[John Harker]

Of course it will.

Even in the highly improbable and almost impossible case that bayonetta has "big" numbers, the stigma won't go away.

It's not a 'stigma' if it's reality. How much evidence in this market do you need?

 

[StormKing]

It's not a 'stigma' if it's reality. How much evidence in this market do you need?

That certainly seems to be the case for the console market. However, for handhelds third party software does not seem to have trouble selling.

 

[B.O.O.M]

Man, you make me glad I'm a casual gamer. All that just sounds like political bullshit with a thinly concealed 'physician, heal thyself' taint to it. I'd hate to feel obliged to spend £1000 and maintain two monthly subscriptions just to claim a label that most right-minded people would actively shun.

lol a bit random but that's a nice phrase. Gonna look up what it means and might even use it in the future. Thanks Dave!

On a different note this casual vs Hardcore nonsense is just cringeworthy to me. It falls in the same category as only people who value gameplay like/buy xxx game sentiment some are showing.

 

[test_account]

It's probably like 20% of the audience

Personally, i think its much less than that. Think about how many, or rather how few, people that complained about e.g Bayonetta 2 being on WiiU only in the greater scheme of things and how many of those that will end up not getting the game because its on a platform that they dont own (someone who initially complained probably ended up getting the game). It wouldnt surprise me if its around 1%, or less, of the audience.

---
Generally speaking on this subject, i think its a bit pity that it has come to the point that its sometimes not possible to simply share an opinion about wanting a game for another platform without someone being annoyed/angry about it. I agree that i can be annoying if someone talk shit about a platform in the process though.

 

[John Harker]

Personally, i think its much less than that. Think about how many, or rather how few, people that complained about e.g Bayonetta 2 being on WiiU only in the greater scheme of things and how many of those that will end up not getting the game because its on a platform that they dont own (someone who initially complained probably ended up getting the game). It wouldnt surprise me if its around 1%, or less, of the audience.

---
Generally speaking on this subject, i think its a bit pity that it has come to the point that its sometimes not possible to simply share an opinion about wanting a game for another platform without someone being annoyed/angry about it. I agree that i can be annoying if someone talk shit about a platform in the process though.

I appreciate your open mind!

I meant more like, 20% of the console market as a whole is the 'hardcore market.'
Which is pretty consistent to how it's generally been. Big sellers have "cross-over" appeal, multiplatform core games that don't sell around what, 100k? Maybe the 'hardcore market' at large is actually a little bigger than past generations, given how well a lot of PC games do these days, but they have more options than ever before, hence it's hard for individual titles to really see the benefit of that.

Anyway, Bayonetta is a good example of a dead genre (pure action) with very hardcore appeal, on a console that is largely dead (wii u) that mostly has a family and children as users (that once-abundant 'nintendo fan' is mostly statistical noise on the wii u in 2014, which I really can't argue anymore haha. These 'fans' have largely given up on exclusively owning nintendo consoles, though, and their expendable income is also being pushed toward mobile and other console titles between tentpole releases from Nintendo, so they too largely have only been showing up for games that have Mario, or core-IP tenants like... well, mario kart, or other largely-nostalgia aimed titles. those couch-co-op games that appeal broadly to families too, have found a market, the rest are simply has not be selling.) so where does that leave bayonetta? it's not co-op and it's not a core IP. (btw, this is why we got all those nintendo costumes, trying to get crossover).

Anyway, it's not like Nintendo doesn't know this, and wanted the content because they don't produce it themselves... budgeted accordingly, launched it with the right amount of spend, and I'm sure everything is fine.

And anyway, as I mentioned prior, bayonetta - and now Fatal Frame - have both actually sold-thru more than I was expecting so far in Japan, so kudos to those involved for the success!

edit:
granted, I'm primarily talking about the US market, which isn't Media Create, but the trends are largely the same, if not more profound in Japan.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Hyrule Warriors is completely gone and Pokemon XY is about to completely fall off the charts.

 

[Chris1964]

Wow, 3DS is 1.5 mill behind same point last year. I don't see n3DS helping it catch up.

I don't see when n3DS was supposed to close 1.5m gap in 3 months. If it manages to have a better Oct-Dec from last year it will have achieved its target and will lead the system with better momentum to 2015. Because if I dig old MC threads from a few months ago I'll find many posts claiming hw wise it would be almost dead next year.

Same for Vita. Having a better Jan-Sep this year won't mean much if it falls drastically behind the remaining 3 months. With Sony and third parties shifting focus to PS4 things won't be rosy after January.

 

[test_account]

I appreciate your open mind!

I meant more like, 20% of the console market as a whole is the 'hardcore market.'
Which is pretty consistent to how it's generally been. Big sellers have "cross-over" appeal, multiplatform core games that don't sell around what, 100k? Maybe the 'hardcore market' at large is actually a little bigger than past generations, given how well a lot of PC games do these days, but they have more options than ever before, hence it's hard for individual titles to really see the benefit of that.

Anyway, Bayonetta is a good example of a dead genre (pure action) with very hardcore appeal, on a console that is largely dead (wii u) that mostly has a family and children as users (that once-abundant 'nintendo fan' is mostly statistical noise on the wii u in 2014, which I really can't argue anymore haha. These 'fans' have largely given up on exclusively owning nintendo consoles, though, and their expendable income is also being pushed toward mobile and other console titles between tentpole releases from Nintendo, so they too largely have only been showing up for games that have Mario, or core-IP tenants like... well, mario kart, or other largely-nostalgia aimed titles. those couch-co-op games that appeal broadly to families too, have found a market, the rest are simply has not be selling.) so where does that leave bayonetta? it's not co-op and it's not a core IP. (btw, this is why we got all those nintendo costumes, trying to get crossover).

Anyway, it's not like Nintendo doesn't know this, and wanted the content because they don't produce it themselves... budgeted accordingly, launched it with the right amount of spend, and I'm sure everything is fine.

And anyway, as I mentioned prior, bayonetta - and now Fatal Frame - have both actually sold-thru more than I was expecting so far in Japan, so kudos to those involved for the success!

edit:
granted, I'm primarily talking about the US market, which isn't Media Create, but the trends are largely the same, if not more profound in Japan.

Ah ok, i see. Yeah, 20% of the market in whole might concist of the "hardcore gamers", that sounds plausible indeed.