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Nah. This gen has been marked by the importance of new franchises in tired genres (Rainbow Siege) or limited genres (For Honor, M&R). I think just looking at the three stooges is the wrong way to go about it.
It doesn't even really need to be a hunter. Hunters aren't really a genre, it's just a co-op focused, weapon-defined/animation emphasized action game. You could be hunting dinosaurs or fight a giant sous chefs, it'd be the same thing.
TwilightPrincess
Member
I hope it's not, Monolithsoft should make good RPGs.
TheLegendaryN
Member
Games that release right now (or let's say this fiscal year) were greenlit long before it was clear that the Switch would be a success. I understand that the Switch wasn't considered as viable platform for maybe games when development started. I'm more baffled that a huge company like BNE didn't make resources available to port many of these games to Switch once it became clear that it's a hit. Unreal Engine 4 games have proven to be very easy and cheap to get ported to Switch.
Prototype Viktor
Member
you talking about quality/sales. i'm talking about 3rd party
ArkhamFantasy
Member
I dont know how long it takes to make a port, but it was clear very quickly that the switch was going to be a hit. Seems like there would be time to do it, but idk.
How many of those come from Japan though?
TheLegendaryN
Member
They're working on an action game, not an RPG.
Game development takes multiple years. The Switch situation wasn't clear until 7 months ago. I'm not sure how many man-months go into an additional port, but we've heard so many positive things about porting UE4 games to Switch already (Snake Pass within a week, for example) that I doubt they can't get their big UE4 game running on Switch and fully ported to the Switch within a year, considering they target to release these games in Early 2018.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Technically Pokken is third party it's made by Namco (published by TPC). Frankly fighters are about as popular on the switch as they are on the PS4. These sorts of things largely comes down to perception.
The first two Dragon Ball Heroes: Ultimate Mission games sold better than all Sword Art Online games, and the third one should reach comparable figures.
Splatoon. But, yes, most of this has come from the west and very strongly from Ubisoft which has almost single-handedly brought all of the new big IPs to the market and successfully at that.
This rigidity is a major problem for Japan (and I am pretty sure Nirolak has touched on this both for this market and for the global market as well). Perhaps due to the old heads just doing "what worked" or a lack of young/new talent to bring in new ideas, all sorts of possible reasons. Capcom is a good example of a company basically stuck in its old IPs because the leadership may as well be a glacier. Overtime, either because of the stifling nature of the leadership or better offers elsewhere, the company has bled talented people (especially in senior positions who could have brought in and reared newer generations), and their attempts at new or old have been met with complete mismanagement of expectations and budgets and marketing. And they still wield some of the shittiest PR in the industry, we've reached meme level with Capcom at this point by just looking at the thread on MvCI from Liam. Regardless of whether or not his report is completely valid, the fact that people actually went "ya I could see that", tells you just how far to utter bottom their mindshare is for the general GAFer.
Notice, though, that I am not expecting new additions to these genres to just pop up from Capcom or Bandai (Code Vein looks terrible, and is a bad example of a "new IP" because it leaves no impression at all, its like a fart in a hurricane). From Japan, I'd only really look at SE as a company that has shown a willingness to take shots in the dark (even if its in tired genres, but look at Octopath, that game has the chance to really be a breath of fresh air to a tired genre). (Conversely, of course, I Am Setsuna and Lost Sphaer are/look like Code Vein-like farts in the hurricane for their respective genre, and they killed Bravely.) Otherwise, only Nintendo and, far as I can see, Monolithsoft seems to be doing exactly that.
If it comes out in 2018/2019 and is actually a co-op, action RPG... that could very well be the product that eats a lot of lunches in the "Hunter Genre" by being some fresh and new (and, for Japan, on a platform that is actually successful).
Are you factoring in the 3DS games?
The Switch could be the vector where traditional PC/western esports genres could start get traction in Japan. It already has a MOBA and Rocke League coming. And Splatoon made versus shooters a strong genre there.
If all Hunt games go to stationary consoles, I can see these other MP experiences taking off.
If all Hunt games go to stationary consoles, I can see these other MP experiences taking off.
Laplasakos
Member
Nope. Only the first one sold better back in 2013.
Dragon Ball Heroes Ultimate Mission - 299.001
Dragon Ball Heroes Ultimate Mission 2 - 219.993
Dragon Ball Heroes Ultimate Mission X - 192.926
Principate
Saint Titanfall
I doubt Nintendo will want to unless the prospect of MH and the rest of Capcom support is well and truly dead.
Regardless of how comparity good Nintendo is to the rest of Japanese industry it's not an easy thing to come up with a successful new ip in a very much established genre set and their typical development process seems to rely on a more natural development of these sorts of things.
Why would Nintendo not want their own variant of a genre?
And of course its difficult, didn't stop Splatoon nor did it stop them from trying with ARMS. If they have a product, they will try to position it if they believe in it.
KillerMan91
Member
Probably decent amount of hardcore fans here did so. I am kinda broke so I didn't even think about buying SNES mini during the launch (if they actually sill manufacture these next year I might buy one).
Well I guess only way to find out the truth about this would be if Sony decides to make PS1 mini lol.
Damn PS2 had huge supply problems during 2000 christmas season in Japan.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Lack of Monster Hunter on Switch? I must have been dreaming when I was wailing on Barroth on my Switch a couple of hours ago.
Mad how you lot are talking about Nintendo looking for Monster Hunter substitutes when the Switch already has a MH game.
Even Capcom forgot about it.
Gotdatmoney
Member
We're looking at more than 1 year before a MH game that isn't a port appears on Switch. I dunno, I kind of feel like you're just doing a semantics thing with this. By the time something resembling mainline MH comes out it'll be like 2019. I think that's why people are talking about alternatives and fill in.
Makes sense to me. Shrug.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
TBF it's not localised and not planned to so unless your willing to play the Japanese version I can sorta understand how someone would forget.
Nintendo is going have one ready even if they tried to do so, neither are most other Japanese publishers.
We have more complete numbers from Media Create.
The third entry is selling better than the second one in the same time span and with holidays around the corner it should not have any trouble in selling around 270k units.
You must be pretty naif if you think XX for Switch is going to fill any thirst for hunting games on handheld (the game is having legs but it is not selling huge numbers), especially considering the fact that it is an old game, already released on 3DS (the original game was also pretty successful). Capcom is betting hard on World, meaning that an hypothetical Monster Hunter for Switch is not releasing before early 2019. Not believing Nintendo is going to create an alternative, but third parties should fill the gap as local co-op is still valued by Japanese players and Switch is very successful (also, third parties might not be aware of hypothetical plans Capcom has for Monster Hunter on Switch).
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
We're in a media create thread. Considering how often MH is spoken about, I sincerely doubt people in here have forgotten it was released.
The way I see people go on its as if Monster Hunter has completely abandoned the Switch when it got a MH game within 5 months of launch. Before the 4 year old ps4
Namco is a good example of what I was talking about earlier.
They're a company that's making dedicated device games for the West and mobile games for Japan, and the Switch is getting lost in the shuffle.
Just to take a look at their last four big games:
Tekken 7: PS4/PC/XB1
Tekken Mobile: iOS/Android
Sword Art Online: Fatal Bullet: PS4/PC/XB1
Sword Art Online: Integral Factor: iOS/Android
God Eater 3: PS4/PC/XB1
God Eater: Resonant Ops: iOS/Android
Naruto to Boruto: Shinobi Striker: PS4/PC/XB1
Naruto x Boruto: Ninja Voltage: iOS/Android
They're a company that's making dedicated device games for the West and mobile games for Japan, and the Switch is getting lost in the shuffle.
Just to take a look at their last four big games:
Tekken 7: PS4/PC/XB1
Tekken Mobile: iOS/Android
Sword Art Online: Fatal Bullet: PS4/PC/XB1
Sword Art Online: Integral Factor: iOS/Android
God Eater 3: PS4/PC/XB1
God Eater: Resonant Ops: iOS/Android
Naruto to Boruto: Shinobi Striker: PS4/PC/XB1
Naruto x Boruto: Ninja Voltage: iOS/Android
I don't generally humor half-effort ports of half-effort cashgrabs as earnest attempts at much of anything but quarter-token effort.
The reason I am discussing it is because MHXXHD has done better than it has deserved to do for what it is and how it was handled, and that suggests to me there is an audience far larger than the numbers presented that wants a product that's similar but with actual effort put into it. Beyond that, I am looking beyond the current known market players (two of which are basically irrelevant) and looking at what has worked this generation in a wide array of genres: new IP with a new twist. Maybe MonolithSoft's new project is that for this genre, maybe someone else has been working on, maybe M&R2 is going to be a Monster Hunter clone, maybe a lot of things. I don't see the harm in looking at it and discussing it in a generation where new IP have been of key importance for revitalizing or finding successes in genres.
Nintendo's brand is also global as is the Switch, so if we're to humor Capcom's "worldwide efforts" we should also humor their "worldwide lack of effort".
Yup, and you were spot on.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
I mean it got a port with the next mainline game is skipping it. While I understand your point. It wouldn't be wise to pick up a switch now under the assumption of future MH titles. Which is mainly the source of that sorta talk.
You need to work on your negatives, too many of your sentences are not saying what you intended for them to say because you're forgetting "not"s.
Is developing dedicated device games for the West paying off, outside of franchises that are/were huge in the West nonetheless (Dragon Ball, Tekken)?
Principate
Saint Titanfall
I missed a would rather than wouldn't accidentally duly noted.
Tekken 7 opened really well but then it utterly collapsed, disappearing from charts the following month entirely (and its revenue based, so that's even worse). That opening was solid but I don't know how solid. Nirolak may have a better idea.
I completely agree for right now. And if Switch was only doing well in Japan I would say its probably a permanent thing. But I would guess as Switch install base keeps increasing world wide Japanese 3rd parties will adapt.
And making their Nintendo-branded games on Nintendo. Such as Smash or Pokken.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
MHW is early 2018. I can see it getting DLC support and perhaps even an updated G version in 2019 (perhaps like how Souls handles its updated versions).
Don't know much about dev teams, but XX just finished dev in 2017. The mainline team is working on World. A potential SW MH would release in 2019/2020?
Anything that is notably different from the focused SKU is a technical obstacle. The focused SKU is usually PS4/PC. Its not hard to see why NB has a lot of XB1 games not coming to SW in such an instance, especially when some of these games have a history with Xbox (Naruto, Dragon Ball, Ace Combat etc).
The second didn't with its decline and I see no reason why the third wouldn't be another decline.
Any recent anime games. There haven't been any on 3DS recently.
Don't know much about dev teams, but XX just finished dev in 2017. The mainline team is working on World. A potential SW MH would release in 2019/2020?
Anything that is notably different from the focused SKU is a technical obstacle. The focused SKU is usually PS4/PC. Its not hard to see why NB has a lot of XB1 games not coming to SW in such an instance, especially when some of these games have a history with Xbox (Naruto, Dragon Ball, Ace Combat etc).
The second didn't with its decline and I see no reason why the third wouldn't be another decline.
Any recent anime games. There haven't been any on 3DS recently.
Yes. Many third parties seem happier to launch collaborations with Nintendo on Nintendo's platforms than just their full general line-up.
I do expect some publishers to pick up a fair bit by Fall 2018.
For example, I would be surprised if Nippon Ichi wasn't releasing way more Switch games by then to pick up sales from the people who bought Disgaea in the West.
Well ani more or less said exactly that, so that's probably a given.
As data I've just posted show, the second one sold even better than the first one; and the third one is selling much better than the second one launch aligned; it might end up selling less, but 270k units should be a lock with holidays around the corner.
Wow, it must have really a tiny budget. The game sold ok on Steam but I don't remember big numbers in the West on PS4 and PSV.
Laplasakos
Member
I just checked Sword Art Online in MC and it appears it's higher there too. Lost Song is at 302k which is higher than Ultimate Mission 1. Only Dragon Ball game that sold better seems to be Ultimate Mission 2. Seems like both franchises are on par in terms of sales, with SAO having the edge now (which can change depending on how Ultimate Mission X does)
A lot of Japanese games are made to sell on 100K-200K Japanese sales, so they have to be in the low single digit million budgets.
Having played God Eater 2, it feels like a very cheap game.
Edit:
It looks like the game did about 200K copies on Steam, and then whatever it did on PlayStation.
God Eater 3 (and CV) don't look much different on that end, so I expect similarly low necessary sales for making it to 'enough sales'.
Then I wonder why keep producing games on dedicated devices. Returns from 100-200k sellers (and, say, 350-400k sellers ww) must be reeeeeeally tiny compared to mobile.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
I mean, I have MHXXHD, have sunk countless hours into it, and it's a very solid port. Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with discussing it. I just don't really see any value in the idea that Nintendo would want another successful hunting game on their system in lieu of Monster Hunter, when the series already has a presence on that system.
I don't think Capcom handled the localisation, or lack thereof, of MHXXHD well at all. But I can completely understand why they're not talking about Monster Hunter's future beyond World. That time will come and Nintendo is without a doubt aware of this.
Jup. I'd bet obscene amounts of money on this happening in mid-late 2019. It took MH4 around the same amount of time to appear on 3DS, something people also seem to be forgetting.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
No point making up numbers without PS4 overseas sales tbh.
A lot of them have stopped doing so, which is why we have a lot less series than we used to.
Some of these series see notable increases in the West though, which can make it worth while, and they do help generate more characters (and eventually art assets) for branded mobile games.
At the time, though, Capcom established 3DS as the Monster Hunter console. They announced Monster Hunter 4 a few months after 3DS launch. They released a pretty major game in the franchise on 3DS during its first year. Right now, Capcom has, de facto, publicly stated the franchise is gonna move on PS4/XB1/PC, given the amount of promotion and marketing is giving to World (worldwide release, many ads online, presence to all gaming fairs); and if the game is gonna work as GaaS, the promotion will keep throughout all 2018. Very different situations. If World is successful enough, plans might change and Switch can simply get a downport, if any.
It these two things that make me wonder about the future because these time-tables are beyond stupid for maintaining a market through 2.5+ years of a successful console is just a new level of 'blind man making plans for the deaf' in a market with as much audience churn/loss as the Japanese market. I'm pretty sure I've raised this point before but I see *zero* reason to think the MH audience from the 3DS will somehow continue to exist for that long and there sure as shit is nothing new bringing new audiences around. Of course, Capcom are masters of losing their audiences this gen so... /shrug
More, though, the "Nintendo is without a doubt aware of this" also goes backwards, they were were also likely aware of this years ago. You know, years ago + years forward = years of possible time to have a studio develop an alternative like... maybe... MonolithSoft's new game.
All of this suggests to me that there is a real possibility that someone else arrives to market first, and its not a possibility to be ignored. And, especially, because Nintendo has a global audience to deal with. That and, well, they didn't take a hot piss on said audience.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Sure and this time Capcom has multiple options. World is their priority as its not only the most ambitious game but also the one with the best chance of furthering MH overseas. There's no point in World ported to SW if SW is getting its own mobile MH game in 2019/2020. Two different MHs for different crowds. I also doubt World will be downported to SW to an extent devs will be happy.
I don't know if I would call it lost in the shuffle... Games arriving on Switch will just take more time since it's a newer platform. Those console games have been in development for a long time already and they can't just port mobile game to Switch. Also does it make much commercial sense to drop Tekken on Switch when the game just came out on other system and ARMS/Pokken/Xenoverse2 just have been released? Makes sense that they would take their time with Tekken Switch and include some exclusive modes/features since it's too late to just release Tekken 7 again.
Unless you think games Tekken or SoA could never come to the system and Switch is another Wii(U).
It's been clear for a while that Switch games that aren't hitting this year are not being mentioned for the most part... we haven't seen or heard anything from the Tales of title that is supposed to be out this Fiscal year, doubt we will see that one before end of December/January... Switch versions of titles like AoT2 look like they were last minute decisions.
Hitting the Holiday months for Switch is something most 3rd won't be able to pull of anymore, Nintendo will be delivering in these months. I expect the momentum to continue with a January Direct showcasing the titles for January - April where games or Switch versions of previously announced titles might show up, if they are planned for this FY.
So you really can't call out Bamco for not having games ready until end of this FY or later. Even SE who likely will be a big Switch supporter doesn't have much announced for the next couple months. They can take their time with releases and make sure the quality is up there.. The +5m/jpn and +15m/global userbase will be there next FY.
Switch is a potential big market for these publishers... So at some point they will wanna move on and deliver quality titles designed with the system in mind from the start and not just underperforming ports.
Ressources are limited and if the take Switch serious they will have to invest so lentils to get the most out of it. A fitting example would be FFXV and the Pocket Edition.... They can't and shouldn't just port wither version to Switch but they are exploring options what would make the most sense considering the hardware, audience and expectations. I feel as a game the Switch is already in a better place than the Wii was for example... Many devs had no issues just dropping Shovelware or total crap Spinoffs on Wii to make a quick bucks. The approach in regards to Switch seem more mature and some of them are willing to take the time and ressources to actually deliver quality title/performances. After what Nintendo has shown off with their first party titles and other 3rds are showing with Doom for example the expectations are rising, so proper investment and quality assurance is needed.
Im very interested to see what the Switch future will have to offer....at the end of they the system has been out for 6 months and not every title will be able to make its way to the system. The tune will change rather fast next year though, assuming the console keeps selling.
If you see the actual MH switch situation as comparable to the MH4 3ds announcement I think you should work at Capcom