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[AZ2002]

I am no longer sure that I can parse your argument.

Are you saying that the Vita will somehow yield more sales for third party titles than 3DS, and will therefore go on to become the lead platform for all handheld games, and the 3DS will be lucky to be left with ports? Is this what you're saying?

If so then for starters I'd like to see you justify that first premise with something more than wishful thinking.

i think it will be the same situation like the Wii but maybe less severe.traditionaly the titles that did well on Nintendo platform like dragon quest will still be released exclusively maybe on it but as exclusivety doesnt make sense from 3rd party POV anymore multi is the way to go for them unless there is a lack of business sense to release on a platform that wont sell that many copies of your game.

lets say for example that there are two version of the same game.people will always choose the superior version (FPS,graphics,...).and thats what gives the advantage to the Vita.see the latest Ace Combat game on the 3DS for example do you think that they will release another version on the 3DS with such a low sales.

 

[Forever]

i think it will be the same situation like the Wii but maybe less severe.traditionaly the titles that did well on Nintendo platform like dragon quest will still be released exclusively maybe on it but as exclusivety doesnt make sense from 3rd party POV anymore multi is the way to go for them unless there is a lack of business sense to release on a platform that wont sell that many copies of your game.

So the DS and PSP never happened?

You're still not explaining why you think third party titles will sell better on Vita than 3DS.

 

[Mpl90]

So the DS and PSP never happened?

You're still not explaining why you think third party titles will sell better on Vita than 3DS.

Because he has faith. And that's enough.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

well if a developer get more sales from the other platform do you think they wont make that platform the lead when they release new games.it would be great for the 3DS if it can get ports nontheless.

No.

Despite how unlikely it is that a Vita/3DS multiplat would sell more on the Vita, an up-port would still cost less to develop. We're talking about from-the-start multiplatform titles.

If a title like this sells more on the Vita, where's the financial-sensibility in spending more developing a graphically-superior Vita version when proof exists that a title can sell more without taking advantage of it's strengths and in turn costing more money? There is no sensibility in that. Any title specifically tailored for the hardware it's on is going to be an exclusive.

 

[AZ2002]

Are you from Sony PR department?

oh come on i read it from Sony report about NPD December sales here on gaf and i thought its a nice phrase and a light hearted one.i own a PS360.i also bought the game cube just for resident evil 4 and resident evil 1 remake.along them i bought a captain tsubasa game and that was it.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

lets say for example that there are two version of the same game.people will always choose the superior version (FPS,graphics,...).and thats what gives the advantage to the Vita.

If they own both hardwares, probably. But if the game is multiplatform and they already have a 3DS, the larger userbase is probably going to prevail. See Resident Evil 4 on GameCube versus PS2 for instance.

 

[Forever]

Because he has faith. And that's enough.

I'm not sure how a constructive discussion can be held with just that as the basis, but whatever floats his boat.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

lets say for example that there are two version of the same game.people will always choose the superior version (FPS,graphics,...).and thats what gives the advantage to the Vita.see the latest Ace Combat game on the 3DS for example do you think that they will release another version on the 3DS with such a low sales.

What does Ace Combat have to do with anything? The franchise as a whole is in decline?

Speaking on your terms, do you think Namco will put another Ridge Racer on the Vita? How about Koei with Dynasty Warriors.

Edit: Are you insinuating that Ace Combat would be successful on the Vita?

 

[Mpl90]

I'm not sure how a constructive discussion can be held with just that as the basis, but whatever floats his boat.

Eh, I perfectly know. Poor Beyond the Labyrinth, however.

 

[Father_Brain]

Right now, there really isn't that much more to say about Vita's Japanese performance: it'll continue to struggle badly against 3DS until/unless some much bigger software hits, or maybe if there's a price drop. Until there's some major news, though, there's just not a lot to discuss that hasn't been argued over in the last few MC threads.

 

[Takao]

What does Ace Combat have to do with anything? The franchise as a whole is in decline?

Speaking on your terms, do you think Namco will put another Ridge Racer on the Vita? How about Koei with Dynasty Warriors.

Edit: Are you insinuating that Ace Combat would be successful on the Vita?

DLC Racer bombing is a good thing. I also don't think the book has closed on Dynasty Warriors NEXT. It debuted at like 29k, but as of the beginning of 2012 (2 weeks later) it was past 50k. It's not done yet.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

How does ToIR compare with TotA3DS?

 

[AZ2002]

So the DS and PSP never happened?

You're still not explaining why you think third party titles will sell better on Vita than 3DS.

the DS numbers will not be repeated again from either (3DS,Vita). check games like PES from konami,Ace Combat,even resident evil:R sales are below par.even Nintendo software sales for the 2011 FY are really low.check this out from Nintendo 2011 FY.this is the second year for both the DS and the 3DS and you will see the difference and with the help of the big three this christmas.

NDS Worldwide Software Unit Sales (Unit:Million)

Ap-Jn Jl-Sp Oc-Dc Ja-Mr FY LTD


FY 2005/06 5.33 7.98 22.59 14.05 49.95 60.44


3DS Worldwide Software Unit Sales (Unit:Million)


Ap-Jn Jl-Sp Oc-Dc Ja-Mr FY LTD

FY 2011/12 4.53 3.60 19.91 - 28.04 37.46


and here is the forcast from Nintendo check the sotware sales difference about 40% less.

(**) FY 2011/12 Forecast (Unit:Million)



NDS Wii 3DS

Hardware Sales 5.5 10.0 14.0

Software Sales 59.0 100.0 38.0


(**)January 26, 2012



(*) Original Forecast (Unit:Million)



NDS Wii 3DS

Hardware Sales 11.0 13.0 16.0

Software Sales 67.0 120.0 62.0


(*)April 25, 2011



summary as the presentation is a little iffy sorry

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=460340

 

[slaughterking]

The nonsense you're talking here is getting a bit out of control, I must say.

 

[Forever]

The nonsense you're talking here is getting a bit out of control I must say.

Yeah I don't even know what the fuck he's trying to say anymore.

How does ToIR compare with TotA3DS?

TotA 3DS did 74,173 in its first week.

 

[Mpl90]

The nonsense you're talking here is getting a bit out of control, I must say.

He's becoming more and more similar to something directly coming from the 2007 Sales-Age Golden period. It was one thing lacking, indeed. Nice.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Yeah I don't even know what the fuck he's trying to say anymore.



TotA 3DS did 74,173 in its first week.

Thanks.

 

[Takao]

How does ToIR compare with TotA3DS?

03./00. [PSV] Tales of Innocence R <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2012.01.26} (¥5.980) - 54.853 / NEW
01. / 00. [3DS] Tales of the Abyss (Bandai Namco) {2011.06.30} - 74.173 / NEW

3DS LTD was 1.188.335 when Abyss 3D launched. Vita's userbase is 535.423.

Original Releases:

03./00. [NDS] Tales of Innocence (Bandai-Namco) - 104,317 / NEW
01./00. [PS2] Tales of Abyss (Bandai Namco Games) {2005.12.15} 405,000 / NEW

Pretty good first week for Innocence R.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

DLC Racer bombing is a good thing. I also don't think the book has closed on Dynasty Warriors NEXT. It debuted at like 29k, but as of the beginning of 2012 (2 weeks later) it was past 50k. It's not done yet.

I'm not arguing they won't.

I'm merely trying to explain why his argument is nonsensical.

Samurai Warriors: Chronicles capped out right around 120k, no?

Edit: The Wii is the basis of your argument? Come on now. Don't mix incomparable markets...

 

[Magicpaint]

03./00. [PSV] Tales of Innocence R <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2012.01.26} (¥5.980) - 54.853 / NEW
01. / 00. [3DS] Tales of the Abyss (Bandai Namco) {2011.06.30} - 74.173 / NEW

3DS LTD was 1.188.335 when Abyss 3D launched. Vita's userbase is 535.423.

Original Releases:

03./00. [NDS] Tales of Innocence (Bandai-Namco) - 104,317 / NEW
01./00. [PS2] Tales of Abyss (Bandai Namco Games) {2005.12.15} 405,000 / NEW

Pretty good first week for Innocence R.

It's worth noting that ToIR is a remake while ToTA is a port. So I dunno why we're even comparing both tbh. TotA should be compared to previous ports and ToIR should be compared to ToP: NDX.

 

[Black Lawn Finale]

So the DS and PSP never happened?

You're still not explaining why you think third party titles will sell better on Vita than 3DS.

Well do we know what's the best selling third party game on the 3DS as of right now? I believe it is MonHun which doesn't correlate with anything that he is saying but does bring up a very good issue with the parity between the sales of first party to third party games.

 

[Takao]

It's worth noting that ToIR is a remake while ToTA is a port. So I dunno why we're even comparing both tbh. TotA should be compared to previous ports and ToIR should be compared to ToP: NDX.

It is indeed a difficult comparison. ToIR is a lazy remake of a game no one really liked, while ToA is a direct port.

I won't dig up ToP: NDX because the userbase differences would be so great that a comparison wouldn't be worth much.

I'm not arguing they won't.

I'm merely trying to explain why his argument is nonsensical.

Samurai Warriors: Chronicles capped out right around 120k, no?

That's probably still selling too, so I can't say. Koei-Tecmo is going to pump out as many Musou games on both 3DS and Vita as possible. They have a tonne of PS2/Wii, and PS3/360 assets to make games from, so I imagine it can't be that expensive, and wouldn't require a lot of creation cost.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

February release schedule (3DS and PSV only).

February 02, 2012
[3DS] Fishing 3D
[PSV] Ragnarok Odyssey

February 09, 2012
[PSV] Gravity Daze
[PSV] Sumioni

February 14, 2012
[3DS] New Love Plus

February 16, 2012
[3DS] Tekken Prime 3D Edition
[3DS] Theatrhythm Final Fantasy
[3DS] Extreme Escape Adventure: Good People Die
[PSV] Extreme Escape Adventure: Good People Die

February 23, 2012
[3DS] 3D Puzzle Nightmare Crash
[3DS] Harvest Moon: Land of Beginning
[PSV] Ninja Gaiden &#931; Plus
[PSV] @ Field
[PSV] Reality Fighters
[PSV] Little Busters! Converted Edition

 

[ThatObviousUser]

How receptive is Japan of FF spinoffs?

Will be interesting if EEA can capture the same lightning in a bottle as 999.

 

[slaughterking]

Will be interesting if EEA can capture the same lightning in a bottle as 999.

999 was actually not a very remarkable seller in Japan. It did alright for what it was, but it's no Steins;Gate or anything.

And Theatrhythm will be one of the low-tier FF spin-offs in terms of sales.

 

[duckroll]

ToIR is a lazy remake of a game no one really liked

I know this has been repeated over and over and over. But is it actually true? What is it based on? Was there a user poll or survey conducted by Namco, and did most Tales fans say they dislike ToI? Are user reviews for the game poor? Is there a huge negative sentiment about the game in Japan?

 

[Mpl90]

999 was actually not a very remarkable seller in Japan. It did alright for what it was, but it's no Steins;Gate or anything.

And Theatrhythm will be one of the low-tier FF spin-offs in terms of sales.

Eh, Theatrhythm... as others said, probably it won't start with big numbers, but it could put up in the end good numbers: DLC, and being a rhythm game could mean long sales.

 

[Magicpaint]

It is indeed a difficult comparison. ToIR is a lazy remake of a game no one really liked, while ToA is a direct port.

I won't dig up ToP: NDX because the userbase differences would be so great that a comparison wouldn't be worth much.

Why is it a lazy remake again? Now it's obviously not ToP PSX or say ToDr but it's decent enough (outside of the subpar graphics), it has actual anime scenes (something the DS version lacked outside of a 1 minute opening), new characters/scenarios, extra voice, new hi-ougis, costumes, more party members in battle etc.

And Tempest is the Tales game NO ONE liked. ToI is still lacking somewhat, but it isn't anywhere near the abomination TotT was.

 

[Truth101]

February release schedule (3DS and PSV only).

February 02, 2012
[3DS] Fishing 3D
[PSV] Ragnarok Odyssey

February 09, 2012
[PSV] Gravity Daze
[PSV] Sumioni

February 14, 2012
[3DS] New Love Plus

February 16, 2012
[3DS] Tekken Prime 3D Edition
[3DS] Theatrhythm Final Fantasy
[3DS] Extreme Escape Adventure: Good People Die
[PSV] Extreme Escape Adventure: Good People Die

February 23, 2012
[3DS] 3D Puzzle Nightmare Crash
[3DS] Harvest Moon: Land of Beginning
[PSV] Ninja Gaiden &#931; Plus
[PSV] @ Field
[PSV] Reality Fighters
[PSV] Little Busters! Converted Edition

Fight!

I also see people say ToI wasn't liked. What is the basis in that statement.

 

[AZ2002]

The nonsense you're talking here is getting a bit out of control, I must say.

okay lets make it simple you say that the 3DS is following footsteps of the NDS lets check the difference in software sale for both as Nintendo thought the same like you guys which is reflected in their forcast ( Nintendo lowered its 3DS software sales forecasts from 62 million to 38 million units ):

NDS first year 2005/06 software sales: 50 million unit.

3DS first year 2011/12 software sales: 28 million unit.

 

[Kazerei]

the DS numbers will not be repeated again from either (3DS,Vita). check games like PES from konami,Ace Combat,even resident evil:R sales are below par.even Nintendo software sales for the 2011 FY are really low.check this out from Nintendo 2011 FY.this is the second year for both the DS and the 3DS and you will see the difference and with the help of the big three this christmas.

.

I think it was mentioned in that thread or another thread, but 3DS hardware is ahead of DS hardware, while 3DS software is behind DS software. Kind of an interesting scenario. Anyways, to say that software sales for the 2011 FY are "really low" is silly. Also, this fiscal year isn't over yet.

 

[Takao]

I know this has been repeated over and over and over. But is it actually true? What is it based on? Was there a user poll or survey conducted by Namco, and did most Tales fans say they dislike ToI? Are user reviews for the game poor? Is there a huge negative sentiment about the game in Japan?

I don't follow Tales fandom, but I'm guessing it's the wrap sheet the game got while it was on DS. It didn't perform well commercially, and was outsourced which means it automatically became a black sheep.

 

[duckroll]

I don't follow Tales fandom, but I'm guessing it's the wrap sheet the game got while it was on DS. It didn't perform well commercially, and was outsourced which means it automatically became a black sheep.

You don't follow Tales fandom, and you are speculating on how people might feel about the game when you don't really know? Are you saying that you've been repeating the same thing over and over when you don't even know if it's true?

 

[Forever]

It didn't perform well commercially

Apparently it did about 250,000 in Japan. I'm not sure how that stacks up against other portable Tales titles, but it doesn't scream failure.

 

[duckroll]

Takao likes talking out of his ass a lot.

 

[Takao]

You don't follow Tales fandom, and you are speculating on how people might feel about the game when you don't really know? Are you saying that you've been repeating the same thing over and over when you don't even know if it's true?

I'm not a member of any Tales website, or anxiously await the release of every piece of new Tales content is what I meant by that. When ToIR was announced it seemed the audience who would visit Tales websites, and the such weren't so enthusiastic towards it being remade. The announcement seemed to trigger an "Uhh...okay" response rather than a "Heck yeah!" one, and that was before we saw the kind of effort Scamco was putting into producing the remake. I'm guessing it's because the game is a black sheep within the franchise - it's one of the few that is outsourced. I don't think I need to be a Tales super fan to come to that conclusion that Innocence wasn't well loved based on that.

Edit: Actually, I think I was a member of a Tales website once, but that was like way back when...

Apparently it did about 250,000 in Japan. I'm not sure how that stacks up against other portable Tales titles, but it doesn't scream failure.

It's low for a mothership game, but yeah, it's not the worst handheld Tales result.

Takao likes talking out of his ass a lot.

Imagine how my teacher put up with me. ;p

 

[AZ2002]

I think it was mentioned in that thread or another thread, but 3DS hardware is ahead of DS hardware, while 3DS software is behind DS software. Kind of an interesting scenario. Anyways, to say that software sales for the 2011 FY are "really low" is silly. Also, this fiscal year isn't over yet.

check the numbers above they are interesting. i am merley trying to analyize the situation objectively with numbers as they dont lie and there is no place for emotion with them.what is the reason for the software decline? the 3DS got an early price cut and released with big Ninty franchises and exclusive MonHun.

 

[duckroll]

I'm not a member of any Tales website, or anxiously await the release of every piece of new Tales content is what I meant by that. When ToIR was announced it seemed the audience who does visit Tales websites, and the such weren't so enthusiastic towards it being remade. The announcement seemed to trigger an "Uhh...okay" response rather than a "Heck yeah!" one, and that was before we saw the kind of effort Scamco was putting into producing the remake. I'm guessing it's because the game is a black sheep within the franchise - it's one of the few that is outsourced. I don't think I need to be a Tales super fan to come to that conclusion that Innocence wasn't well loved based on that.

Edit: Actually, I think I was a member of a Tales website once, but that was like way back when...

So games only fall into two categories? "Well loved" and "No one really likes"? Gotcha. Keep up those awesome posting standards.

 

[Chris1964]

check the numbers above they are interesting. i am merley trying to analyize the situation objectively with numbers as they dont lie and there is no place for emotion with them.what is the reason for the software decline? the 3DS got an early price cut and released with big Ninty franchises and exclusive MonHun.

3DS was almost dead at software releases from launch until November, it's not so difficult to explain the decline.

 

[slaughterking]

Eh, Theatrhythm... as others said, probably it won't start with big numbers, but it could put up in the end good numbers: DLC, and being a rhythm game could mean long sales.

I doubt it. It's not just a rhythm game, but a Final Fantasy themed one with a very crude mix of a weird art style and reused FMVs and a pretty high price tag. I think this will mainly appeal to the core FF fanbase, but I don't see it being a hit with the casual rhythm game player.

 

[Takao]

So games only fall into two categories? "Well loved" and "No one really likes"? Gotcha. Keep up those awesome posting standards.

Actually, there is more than 2. I'd say Tales of Hearts is a decently loved game no one played, largely in part due to the previous 2 outsourced Tales mothership games poisoning the well. Innocence came at a bad time. It was an outsourced game (therefore, an automatic black sheep) that came right after the first outsourced main Tales game - a game both you and I should agree on was hated - Tales of the Tempest.

Maybe I was a bit too harsh on Innocence (should have called it a game those who played liked, but many did not bother with) since realistically, it would be closer to Hearts than Tempest. It just wasn't #1 on the list of games Tales fans wanted remade, and may have been a dubious choice as a debut on new hardware. At least it wasn't Phantasia, or ToT I guess...

 

[squall23]

I know this has been repeated over and over and over. But is it actually true? What is it based on? Was there a user poll or survey conducted by Namco, and did most Tales fans say they dislike ToI? Are user reviews for the game poor? Is there a huge negative sentiment about the game in Japan?

The thing is, from what I remember of popularity polls. The Japanese fans LOVE Luca.

I'm also someone that really liked the DS game besides a few problems like certain parts of the story and the dungeon design. Other than that, the combat system is really fun and there are some likeable characters in it.

 

[slaughterking]

okay lets make it simple you say that the 3DS is following footsteps of the NDS lets check the difference in software sale for both as Nintendo thought the same like you guys which is reflected in their forcast ( Nintendo lowered its 3DS software sales forecasts from 62 million to 38 million units ):

NDS first year 2005/06 software sales: 50 million unit.

3DS first year 2011/12 software sales: 28 million unit.

I didn't say that at all. I'm just calling you out on your wishful thinking. That was kinda cute at first, but you're not making any sense and just obsess about this made-up future where the 3DS can be lucky if he gets a Vita port here and there to stay afloat.

 

[duckroll]

Actually, there is an in between. I'd say Tales of Hearts is a decently loved game no one played, largely in part due to the previous 2 outsourced Tales mothership games poisoning the well. Innocence came at a bad time. It was an outsourced game (therefore, and automatic black sheep) that came right after the first outsourced main Tales game - a game both you and I should agree on wasn't loved at all - Tales of the Tempest.

Maybe I was a bit too harsh on Innocence, but both you and I should once again agree, it wasn't #1 on the list of games Tales fans wanted remade, and may have been a dubious choice as a debut on new hardware. At least it wasn't Phantasia, or ToT I guess...

Stop changing the subject or making excuses. You said that it is a lazy remake of a game no one liked. It's not about being harsh or anything, since you didn't even play the game, and it seems you know nothing about it. Where is the evidence that it is a Tales game that no one liked?

 

[Metallix87]

i am merley trying to analyize the situation objectively with numbers as they dont lie and there is no place for emotion with them.what is the reason for the software decline? the 3DS got an early price cut and released with big Ninty franchises and exclusive MonHun.

You're merely trying to be objective, but also making bold claims about having high hopes for Vita to take off without any real reason and suddenly push 3DS into borderline irrelevance?

I'm not sure I get where you're coming from.

 

[Takao]

Stop changing the subject or making excuses. You said that it is a lazy remake of a game no one liked. It's not about being harsh or anything, since you didn't even play the game, and it seems you know nothing about it. Where is the evidence that it is a Tales game that no one liked?

I changed my post while you were replying to the current version. It was unfair of me to say it was a game no one liked. I'm not in the position to declare that.

As for the "You didn't even play it!" poke, well of course not. The game's only in Japanese. I probably would play it if it was localized as I have played a good chunk of recent Tales games including the Symphonia sequel...

 

[AZ2002]

I didn't say that at all. I'm just calling you out on your wishful thinking. That was kinda cute at first, but you're not making any sense and just obsess about this made-up future where the 3DS can be lucky if he gets a Vita port here and there to stay afloat.

no need to be defensive buddy take it easy .i didnt say that the 3DS will be lucky to get ports.if the 360 gets a better version than the PS3 its called a port even though the publisher call it a multiplat title and its a common practice now i dont see whats the problem with it but you make it sound like its inferior or somthing.

 

[duckroll]

I changed my post while you were replying to the current version. It was too harsh of me to say it was a game no one liked.

So you admit you were talking out of your ass? Is that it?

 

[Kazerei]

check the numbers above they are interesting. i am merley trying to analyize the situation objectively with numbers as they dont lie and there is no place for emotion with them.what is the reason for the software decline? the 3DS got an early price cut and released with big Ninty franchises and exclusive MonHun.

I think Chris explained the decline pretty nicely.

Anyways, going back to your original point. Overall I'd say 3DS and Vita is looking to be the same story as DS and PSP. Sure, 3DS software sales are lower than DS sales, but Vita hardware/software sales are lower than PSP as well.

Now you still haven't given a good reason why third parties are going to support Vita better than the 3DS. That's just wishful thinking.

 

[slaughterking]

As for the "You didn't even play it!" poke, well of course not. The game's only in Japanese. I probably would play it if it was localized as I have played a good chunk of recent Tales games including the Symphonia sequel...

There's a complete fan-translation FWIW.

no need to be defensive buddy take it easy .i didnt say that the 3DS will be lucky to get ports.if the 360 gets a better version than the PS3 its called a port even though the publisher call it a multiplat title and its a common practice now i dont see whats the problem with it but you make it sound like its inferior or somthing.

Yeah, I really have no idea what you're talking about, sorry.