PS3 is much more than PSV yet the mutiplatform games between two sell very close. And guess what, unlike PSP, PS3 user is very actvie in Japan.
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Media Create Sales: Week 5, 2014 (Jan 27 - Feb 02)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
PS3 is much more than PSV yet the mutiplatform games between two sell very close. And guess what, unlike PSP, PS3 user is very actvie in Japan.
Wii U hardware sells poorly:
"well there arent enough games out there!"
Wii U software sells poorly:
"well there arent enough Wii U's out there!"
There are always excuses, that is for certain.
In the UK, FIFA 14 on the PS4, which is practically the same game as the one on PS3/360 just slightly better looking is the top game in the region, despite having a much smaller userbase, higher price entry (PS4+FIFA14), multiplatform game. If a yearly sports multiplat game can do that on the newly released PS4 in the UK, then surely exclusives on a console that has had 1 year with 2 holiday season under its belt should do better in Japan. Something has to give, something has to over perform and deliver. None of that is true for the Wii U hw or sw.
Its not 2008 any more, there is a reason why sales of the original Wii fell off a cliff, there is a reason why "motion gaming" has been more or less retired, people had enough and saw it for what it was.
Releasing Wii U Fit in 2014 is like a hair metal band from the 80s releasing another album in 1994, after Nirvana changed the landscape.
"well there arent enough games out there!"
Wii U software sells poorly:
"well there arent enough Wii U's out there!"
There are always excuses, that is for certain.
In the UK, FIFA 14 on the PS4, which is practically the same game as the one on PS3/360 just slightly better looking is the top game in the region, despite having a much smaller userbase, higher price entry (PS4+FIFA14), multiplatform game. If a yearly sports multiplat game can do that on the newly released PS4 in the UK, then surely exclusives on a console that has had 1 year with 2 holiday season under its belt should do better in Japan. Something has to give, something has to over perform and deliver. None of that is true for the Wii U hw or sw.
Its not 2008 any more, there is a reason why sales of the original Wii fell off a cliff, there is a reason why "motion gaming" has been more or less retired, people had enough and saw it for what it was.
Releasing Wii U Fit in 2014 is like a hair metal band from the 80s releasing another album in 1994, after Nirvana changed the landscape.
metalslimer
Member
Right. Basically with the userbase argument for Wii U, there is no legitimate way to criticize any of the games unless they selling W101 numbers or less.If DKC actually doesn't fails to sell 200k that would be a huge failure.
http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/data/explanation.html#result_3q
Monster Hunter 4 shipments currently (Feb. 7) at 4.1 million.
Monster Hunter 4 shipments currently (Feb. 7) at 4.1 million.
Herb Alpert
Banned
It's a shame third party titles can't sell on nintendo hardware.
Are you suggesting that Monster Hunter is indicative of a broader trend that's going unnoticed?
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Donkey Kong looks set to crater then. Wonder if there'll be a 3DS port down the line, which is something Nintendo should be considering for most of its WiiU stuff at this point to make returns.
Japan doesn't seem as enthused by the PS4 as I'd thought it might be. Troubling times for non-smartphone gaming in that region if the hype can't be reinjected.
Japan doesn't seem as enthused by the PS4 as I'd thought it might be. Troubling times for non-smartphone gaming in that region if the hype can't be reinjected.
Herb Alpert
Banned
no.
I just say that third party titles can sell on a nintendo platform.
It is indeed possible.
Do you say it is a trend?
I don't understand why THQ went bankrupt when GTAV has sold 30+ million units.
Yep, both my statement and yours don't make any sense
I just think MH4 has no bearing on the wider Nintendo / third party situation.
neurosisxeno
Member
Monster Hunter sells very well no matter what. Japan loves Monster Hunter, and it has a decent following in the Western world. If Capcom released a brand new Monster Hunter in Japan only on the PSV the Vita would sell 1-2 million units in a month. That's how much they like Monster Hunter...
That´s more due to PS3s big declines when it comes to most software releases. One of the most noteworthy beeing Sonys Gran Tourismo 6 from GT5. A former million selling IP ended up selling something like 350k on PS3.
There are also other examples of declines like Pro Evolution Soccer 14 and the recently launched Sengoku Basara 3. As a matter of fact in Japan no PSV game sold 500k units in more than 2 years on the market and most of its so called "success"-stories have been niche titles selling like niche titles and not exactly big success storys. Even the highlighted PSV version of God Eater 2 sold considerably less than either God Eater or God Eater Burst.
A lot of third party games have done well on the 3DS though and MH4 is arguably part of the reason why. It's pretty just that Nintendo handhelds and consoles are like two completely separate worlds.
Herb Alpert
Banned
OK, I wouldn't want to launch one of these pointless MH conversations. So please forget my comment.
Oh boy what I have done?
Sammy Samusu
Member
And high sell through! Can't wait for MH4U.
Third parties have generally done well on the 3DS in Japan havent they?
Yes.
In Japan third parties do great on 3DS, better than on any other system and dominate charts most weeks. The west is a different thing although some manage.
Aah, that's nothing, don't worry.
If you just try to underplay the epicness of Knack, though...then, Smoky will make you shit bricks.
I'd like to add that, given creamsugar's leak, in US there are many third party titles doing good / well on 3DS: Japanese brands, niche titles and also children franchises a bit. The real problem is with the Western oriented titles (like Castlevania: Mirror of Fate). And the same should be for most of Europe, UK excluded (by far the worse territory for 3DS software wise).
P.S. BD could be included soon among the successes in US, if Amazon is a good index.
Indeed, but the qualifiers 'on the 3DS, in Japan' were missing from the original statement.
Game knows game
Nah, i'm not going to start one of those MH shitstorms. But I think you should have used mid tier franchises or new IPs, not one of the biggest selling names. Comparing things like KH:BBS with DDD (which went PSP -> 3DS) and SMT IV with Strange Journey and Nocturne would be a better comparision imo.
Using MH to analize 3rd party sales is like using CoD/FIFA/GTA to point the industry as a whole is healthier than ever. That was my point
Doing the Comgnet and Tsutaya rankings as no one posted them yet, sorry if the layout isn't as nice as Aquamarine's and some titles are wrong, just ran the sites through Google Translate.
Comgnet:
http://www.comgnet.com/ranking/#uriage
Tsutaya:
http://www.tsutaya.co.jp/rank/game.html?r=W090&moid=rank_sgame
Comgnet:
Code:
1. [3DS] Dragon Quest Monsters 2 - 1007pt
2. [3DS] Puyo Tetris - 96pt
3. [PS3] Mobile Suit Gundam EXTREME VS FULL BOOST - 75Pt
4. [PSV] Terraria - 44pt
5. [3DS] Kirby Triple Deluxe - 37pt
6. [PS3] Sengoku Basara 4 (Limited Edition) - 34Pt
7. [3DS] Monster Hunter 4 - 33pt
8. [3DS] Pazudora Z - 29Pt
9. [PS3] Diablo 3 - 28Pt
10. [PS3] Puyo Tetris - 28pt
11. [3DS] Disney Magic Castle My Happy Life - 28pt
12. [3DS] Yokai Watch - 22pt
13. [PS3] Grand Theft Auto 5 - 20pt
14. [3DS] Tsubasa giant of humanity - the end of the march - 20pt
15. [PSV] Super Heroine Senki - 18pt
16. [PS3] Super Heroine Senki - 18pt
17. [PSV] Puyo Tetris - 15pt
18. [3DS] Survival battle with Shinobu in combat legend - 15pt
19. [PSV] Disgaea 4 Return - 14pt
20. [3DS] Animal Crossing New Leaf - 14ptTsutaya:
Code:
1. [3DS] Dragon Quest Monsters 2
2. [3DS] Puyo Tetris
3. [PS3] Mobile Suit Gundam EXTREME VS FULL BOOST
4. [3DS] Yokai Watch
5. [3DS] Kirby Triple Deluxe
6. [PS3] Sengoku Basara 4 (Limited Edition)
7. [PSV] Terraria
8. [3DS] Pazudora Z
9. [PS3] Diablo 3
10. [PS3] Puyo Tetris
11. [PSV] Puyo Tetris
12. [PSV] Super Heroine Senki
13. [PS3] Mobile Suit Gundam EXTREME VS FULL BOOST (Limited Edition)
14. [3DS] Tsubasa giant of humanity - the end of the march
15. [PS3] Super Heroine Senki
16. [PSV] Disgaea 4 Return
17. [PS3] Saints Row IV
18. [PS3] Grand Theft Auto V
19. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: A Link between Worlds
20. [WIU] Puyo Tetris"It's a shame third party titles can't sell on nintendo hardware."
Slow your roll, sunshine.
shinra-bansho
Member
Generally discussion of Nintendo's poor third party relations is centred on 1) the home console business and 2) Western publishers.
It has sold around 350K, despite 180K of the audience having not transitioned from the PSP and buying it there instead.
Trying to use it to strengthen any argument about how the massive collapse that franchises are undergoing on the Wii U is unavoidable is folly. The franchise collapse can probably be partially explained by the lowered installed base; the franchises in and of themselves have also presumably lost appeal with the market, there has been a failure to transition the audience for titles over and/or the people who constitute the installed base are buying less software in general as well.
Gran Turismo hasn't been a million selling IP on the PS3 in Japan, and its decline from GT5 to GT6 was much more muted in Japan than in other territories.
The PSV version launched at about 270K on the 2M installed base of the PSV, roughly the same as what the original God Eater launched at on the 13M installed base of the PSP.
It has sold around 350K, despite 180K of the audience having not transitioned from the PSP and buying it there instead.
Trying to use it to strengthen any argument about how the massive collapse that franchises are undergoing on the Wii U is unavoidable is folly. The franchise collapse can probably be partially explained by the lowered installed base; the franchises in and of themselves have also presumably lost appeal with the market, there has been a failure to transition the audience for titles over and/or the people who constitute the installed base are buying less software in general as well.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
Puyo Puyo Tetris SKU spread is about as predicted.
Sammy Samusu
Member
Looks like a strong debut for Puyo 3DS, it will be interesting to watch this one.
3DS : Puyo Puyo!! 20th Anniversary [Special Price] ( SEGA ) { 2012-12-13 } - - / 59,275
3DS : Puyo Puyo!! 20th Anniversary ( SEGA ) { 2011-12-15 } - - / 61,108
NDS : Puyo Puyo! 15th Anniversary ( SEGA ) { 2006-12-14 } - 48,849 / 304,618
NDS : Puyo Puyo 7 ( SEGA ) { 2009-07-30 } - 51,374 / 265,422
3DS : Puyo Puyo!! 20th Anniversary [Special Price] ( SEGA ) { 2012-12-13 } - - / 59,275
3DS : Puyo Puyo!! 20th Anniversary ( SEGA ) { 2011-12-15 } - - / 61,108
NDS : Puyo Puyo! 15th Anniversary ( SEGA ) { 2006-12-14 } - 48,849 / 304,618
NDS : Puyo Puyo 7 ( SEGA ) { 2009-07-30 } - 51,374 / 265,422
NDS : Tetris DS ( Nintendo ) { 2006-04-27 } - 208,422 / 1,334,370
test_account
XP-39C²
Its not just about Monster Hunter though. 3rd parties have always seen success on Nintendo handheld, especially in Japan. The arguement about 3rd parties not selling on Nintendo hardware has been about consoles in specifc since the Gamecube days (or maybe since the Nintendo 64 days).
@shinra-bansho
There is no reason to basically ignore lifetime sales in favour of first week sales, what exactly is your point outside of giving a positive spin to unfavourable data? Why exactly do you think the PSV version of God Eater 2 fell on it´s face after similar launch week sales? To me it´s pretty obvious, a big part of the GE userbase wasn´t onboard the PSVita.
Just to make it clear how arbitrary and misleading it is to ignore lifetime sales. Here a very recent example of a game that launched after God Eater 2. SM3DW had a launch week of roughly 100k units and now it´s heading to 600k units right now and even something like 700k-800k lifetime sales by the end of the years isn´t completely out of the question, considering the adoption rate.
Another very good example is Level 5s Yokai-Watch which is easily going to outsell PSVs God Eater 2.
first week
02./00. [3DS] Youkai Watch <RPG> (Level 5) {2013.07.11} (¥4.800) - 53.654 / NEW
this week
06./07. [3DS] Yo-kai Watch <RPG> (Level 5) {2013.07.11} (¥4.800) - 27.670 / 373.199 (+58%)
There is no reason to basically ignore lifetime sales in favour of first week sales, what exactly is your point outside of giving a positive spin to unfavourable data? Why exactly do you think the PSV version of God Eater 2 fell on it´s face after similar launch week sales? To me it´s pretty obvious, a big part of the GE userbase wasn´t onboard the PSVita.
Just to make it clear how arbitrary and misleading it is to ignore lifetime sales. Here a very recent example of a game that launched after God Eater 2. SM3DW had a launch week of roughly 100k units and now it´s heading to 600k units right now and even something like 700k-800k lifetime sales by the end of the years isn´t completely out of the question, considering the adoption rate.
Another very good example is Level 5s Yokai-Watch which is easily going to outsell PSVs God Eater 2.
first week
02./00. [3DS] Youkai Watch <RPG> (Level 5) {2013.07.11} (¥4.800) - 53.654 / NEW
this week
06./07. [3DS] Yo-kai Watch <RPG> (Level 5) {2013.07.11} (¥4.800) - 27.670 / 373.199 (+58%)
Where are they shipping these copies? Asia?
Because if we believe Famitsu, there are now more than 400k unsold copies at retail.
This argument has also been used against Nintendos handhelds for a very long time.
shinra-bansho
Member
The lifetime sales of GE are about 620K, the lifetime sales of Burst are about 430K. Yes, part of the audience hasn't moved to the new installed base, thus 180K sales on the PSP, for a total LTD for the game of 530K through the end of 2013, about 100K less than the original God Eater or 100K more than Burst.
Will the SKU on the PSV reach that of GE, I doubt it; will it reach Burst, maybe, it's still charting - again despite there being an SKU readily available on systems the audience for the title already own.
It's not a "positive spin," it's correcting the assertion that God Eater serves as an example that all franchises must collapse upon transition to a new installed base. Because it has not collapsed like Wii Fit has, despite a much smaller installed base.
If it had collapsed and failed abysmally, the small installed base wouldn't excuse it either. I suppose if you want to consider GE2 a failure on the PSV, in the same vein as Wii Fit U has been, despite the situation being nothing alike, that's your prerogative.
EDIT: what world is it where SM3DW is anywhere near 600K. I don't think NSMBU for all it's "Nintendo legs" even reached that without bundling.
GE2 Vita sold digital copies too. In three weeks it got to the 4th position in the yearly PSN chart. An we know that all of the games in that Top 10 sold >30k at the very least.
Also the updated Famitsu numbers as of three weeks ago are 373k Vita, ~200k PSP.
3Ds has been for a while, the only console where 3rd parties can sell over 1 million. So eh.
test_account
XP-39C²
About Japan? Personally i havnt seen that, at least not from what i can remember. I'm not sure why anyone would have made that arguement concidering that 3rd parties in general have always done well on Nintendo handhelds there. I know there have been some arguements that some games might have sold better if they had been on other platforms (is this what you're referring to?), but those are games in specific, not about the general 3rd party support.
Hero of Legend
Member
So are this week's magazines leaking a day early? I guess Dengeki Playstation is out now? Hopefully Famitsu will follow shortly.
It is undeniable that that there is quite a big difference in sales between the main installments of God Eater and the PSV version of God Eater 2. Even Burst sold more. The reasons are quite obvious and I did already adress that in my earlier post.
Also I really don´t understand your obsession with Wii Fit, this is a game that is having a hard time for several reasons and no one is attributing its performance only on the difference in userbase and to deny that it has been affected as well as other titles is dishonest at best. But interestingly enough the discussion is about the diminished sales potential due to a low userbase in general and started with a comparison with DKTF.
In a world where people can see beyond first week sales. There has been an informative weekly comparison of NSMBWIIU, Nintendoland and SM3DWorld by ZSaberlink. According to this comparison with Famitsu sales data 3DWorld sold more than both in the same timeframe and reached lifetime sale numbers of 515k.
Week 5, 2014 (1/27-2/2) - 8.288 / 515.132
By the end of June it has a realistic chance to be at around 600k lifetime sales in my opinion.
Also I really don´t understand your obsession with Wii Fit, this is a game that is having a hard time for several reasons and no one is attributing its performance only on the difference in userbase and to deny that it has been affected as well as other titles is dishonest at best. But interestingly enough the discussion is about the diminished sales potential due to a low userbase in general and started with a comparison with DKTF.
In a world where people can see beyond first week sales. There has been an informative weekly comparison of NSMBWIIU, Nintendoland and SM3DWorld by ZSaberlink. According to this comparison with Famitsu sales data 3DWorld sold more than both in the same timeframe and reached lifetime sale numbers of 515k.
Week 5, 2014 (1/27-2/2) - 8.288 / 515.132
By the end of June it has a realistic chance to be at around 600k lifetime sales in my opinion.
It really is pathetic how people will come up with excuses week after week.
As I expected, PS4 is going to completely bomb in Japan. Their uptake will be very slow going. PS3 looks to be getting a ton of JP support for at least another year/year and a half.
Forget a million, it's the only console where 3rd parties can pass 500k at this point.
Sammy Samusu
Member
I believe PS4 will perform similar to the 3DS, slow start, but not ultra bomba level like PSV and Wii U.
3DS used to be in "champion beast mode" back in the dark days, selling 25k weekly. I feel like PS4 could achieve about the same, maybe around 20k weekly.
3DS used to be in "champion beast mode" back in the dark days, selling 25k weekly. I feel like PS4 could achieve about the same, maybe around 20k weekly.
shinra-bansho
Member
Typically a title having just passed 500K isn't taken as being near to 600K but whatever...
The discussion is premised on people pre-emptively trying to excuse the sales of Donkey Kong as a "relative success" on the terribad Wii U installed base; we don't have Donkey Kong's sales as yet to know how much of a failure it is or isn't. But we do have Wii Fit U to look at, and other titles. And there's more than enough information to know that game sales and installed base do not scale linearly with examples like God Eater showing that a reduced installed base doesn't necessitate a title bombas completely in generational transition.
If the franchise holds up as well as some franchises like God Eater has relative to past entries, which it probably won't, it will be looked upon much better than if it collapses like Wii Fit has.
The discussion is premised on people pre-emptively trying to excuse the sales of Donkey Kong as a "relative success" on the terribad Wii U installed base; we don't have Donkey Kong's sales as yet to know how much of a failure it is or isn't. But we do have Wii Fit U to look at, and other titles. And there's more than enough information to know that game sales and installed base do not scale linearly with examples like God Eater showing that a reduced installed base doesn't necessitate a title bombas completely in generational transition.
If the franchise holds up as well as some franchises like God Eater has relative to past entries, which it probably won't, it will be looked upon much better than if it collapses like Wii Fit has.
3DSs 20k-25k weekly sales after its launch period had been considered a total failure and lead to a drastic price cut within a couple months.
What if it's somewhere in between? Like say a 70% decline rather than 40% or 95%?
600k are within reach looking at its current adoption rate. It basically is a relative term and dependant on different factors. For example I would have a hard time calling a niche game that basically stopped selling after its launch week close to 10k units after selling 900 units in its first week and stopped selling moving forward.
Also you really are putting a lot of words in many users mouths. Most people just want to discuss the reasons of sales decline and making realistic prediction with the information at hand, one of many factors obviously is the currently insufficiently small userbase. It´s really interesting how you come to the conclusion that people are doing this to make it look like a success afterwards, because to me it´s obvious that it´s more about realistic expectations and I doubt anyone in here called WiiFit Us performance as a success so far.
1st Course
Member
Did any site/blog post the Playstation Top 50 included with this week's Famitsu yet? Geimin didn't post anything.
Apophis2036
Banned
I'm not trying to 'pre emptively excuse' anything lol. It's simple math that a game with 15 million potential customers has a much higher chance of outselling a game with 1.6 million customers.
Add to that the fact that 3DS is a sales phenomenon in Japan and WiiU is a complete failure unlike anything Nintendo have previously released.
Here is a future spoiler for the new MK, Smash, Zelda and Metroid. They will all sell far less than their previous entries because their previous entries were on a healthy console with a 12+ million install base in Japan.
You will probably bring up Twilight Princess but launch games are the exception to the rule as Knack is currently proving.