Hero of Legend
Member
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Media Create Sales: Week 7, 2015 (Feb 09 - Feb 15)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
Games like FFTA2, Children of Mana, FFCC Echoes of Time, FF 4 Heroes of Light, TWEWY, Saga 2, Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of Plume are bombas, but Theathrhythm, Dragon Quest X, Rocket Slime III, FF Explorers are quite successful.
If the goalposts for 3DS moved so further down that bombas and underperforming in DS became the definition of success for 3DS, then you are right.
It's for the Vita's internet browser.
Unity engine makes me think it was probably a smartphone game that got pushed to Vita first for whatever reason (creator desires, Sony incentives, etc). The project feels a lot like Rise of Mana by suppossedly being a very traditional throwback for a semi-retired classic IP, and that was something SE has been trying to push on smart devices in recent years. I think ROM might've also been Unity, as have been Agito, DQVIII and some other mobile SE games.
new releases {2015.02.26}
[3DS] La Corda d'Oro 3: Full Voice Special # <SLG> (Koei Tecmo) (¥6.264)
[3DS] La Corda d'Oro 3: Full Voice Special (Treasure Box) <SLG> (Koei Tecmo) (¥13.824)
[3DS] DoraMoji: Nobita no Kanji Daisakusen <EDU> (Shogakukan) (¥4.937)
[PSV] Captain Earth: Mind Labyrinth # <ADV> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥7.171)
[PSV] Captain Earth: Mind Labyrinth (Limited Edition) <ADV> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥10.778)
[PSV] Diabolik Lovers: Dark Fate # <ADV> (Idea Factory) (¥6.264)
[PSV] Diabolik Lovers: Dark Fate (Limited Edition) <ADV> (Idea Factory) (¥8.424)
[PSV] Parfait # <ADV> (Technical Group Laboratory) (¥5.378)
[PSV] Parfait (First Press Limited Edition) <ADV> (Technical Group Laboratory) (¥6.458)
[PSV] OZMafia!! Vivace # <ADV> (HuneX) (¥7.452)
[PSV] OZMafia!! Vivace (Limited Edition) <ADV> (HuneX) (¥9.072)
[PSV] Yuuki Yuuna wa Yuusha de Aru: Jukai no Kioku # <ADV> (FuRyu) (¥6.998)
[PSV] Yuuki Yuuna wa Yuusha de Aru: Jukai no Kioku (Limited Edition) <ADV> (FuRyu) (¥10.238)
[PS4] Dragon Quest Heroes: The Darkness Dragon and the Castle of the World Tree <RPG> (Square Enix) (¥8.424)
[PS3] Dragon Quest Heroes: The Darkness Dragon and the Castle of the World Tree <RPG> (Square Enix) (¥7.344)
[3DS] La Corda d'Oro 3: Full Voice Special # <SLG> (Koei Tecmo) (¥6.264)
[3DS] La Corda d'Oro 3: Full Voice Special (Treasure Box) <SLG> (Koei Tecmo) (¥13.824)
[3DS] DoraMoji: Nobita no Kanji Daisakusen <EDU> (Shogakukan) (¥4.937)
[PSV] Captain Earth: Mind Labyrinth # <ADV> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥7.171)
[PSV] Captain Earth: Mind Labyrinth (Limited Edition) <ADV> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥10.778)
[PSV] Diabolik Lovers: Dark Fate # <ADV> (Idea Factory) (¥6.264)
[PSV] Diabolik Lovers: Dark Fate (Limited Edition) <ADV> (Idea Factory) (¥8.424)
[PSV] Parfait # <ADV> (Technical Group Laboratory) (¥5.378)
[PSV] Parfait (First Press Limited Edition) <ADV> (Technical Group Laboratory) (¥6.458)
[PSV] OZMafia!! Vivace # <ADV> (HuneX) (¥7.452)
[PSV] OZMafia!! Vivace (Limited Edition) <ADV> (HuneX) (¥9.072)
[PSV] Yuuki Yuuna wa Yuusha de Aru: Jukai no Kioku # <ADV> (FuRyu) (¥6.998)
[PSV] Yuuki Yuuna wa Yuusha de Aru: Jukai no Kioku (Limited Edition) <ADV> (FuRyu) (¥10.238)
[PS4] Dragon Quest Heroes: The Darkness Dragon and the Castle of the World Tree <RPG> (Square Enix) (¥8.424)
[PS3] Dragon Quest Heroes: The Darkness Dragon and the Castle of the World Tree <RPG> (Square Enix) (¥7.344)
Absolutely not.sörine;152738363 said:
PSP only got Crisis Core, Dissidia, Final Fantasy Tactics, Birth By Sleep, Tactics Ogre, Final Fantasy IV, and Type 0.
3DS has gotten more games, including more original games, and many of them have performed well (mostly the Dragon Quest).
SE just does not like Sony portables.
Pennywise83
Banned
There is something called context. Let's see how this applies case-by-case.
- I didn't write Final Fantasy Tactics A2 bombed; I wrote it underperformed. The GBA entry sold 441k units (on a much lower installed base, for what it matters), while the porting of the original one on PSP sold 300k units. 287k units on DS don't seem much, given how the IP actually had done, and still did on the competing platform. Not that it sold bad, but I can see SQEX expecting more (the game went on mobile, indeed).
- I didn't mention Children of Mana because I think it sold well (more than the GBA entry and slighlty lower than Dawn of Mana on Ps2), but it was also released alongside the DS Lite; the problem is that Heroes of Mana, released a year later, wasn't even able to crack the 100k mark. Then: no more Mana games on DS.
- Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles - Echoes of Time sold well for what it was, but it was also quite down from Ring of Fates (389k vs. 259k); after the bomb of the IP on Wii, this spin-off series disappeared.
- Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light sold 200k units. It's the lowest-selling FF game on DS (outside the Chocobo ones). I don't know how much SQEX was expecting, but surely the project was aimed at attracting those purists that bought FFIII and IV. If the game had sold well, SQEX would have sticked to this label with Bravely Second, instead of going on the new IP route. And Bravely Second sold more than The 4 Heroes of Light, both in Japan than worldwide.
- The World Ends With You sold close to 200k; right now, it doesn't seem that bad, but at the time I remember SQEX was not that happy with those sales (though the game had a nice following over the years). SQEX basically abandoned the IP, for whatever reasons (perhaps original creators were absorbed in other projects).
- Both SaGa2 and Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume sold around 170-180k units; I didn't mention the latter, so the inclusion in your reply seems off. I can correct what I wrote by saying that probably SaGa 2 didn't underperform since they greenlighted another entry; as for Valkyrie Profile, it sold well, but SQEX might have expected more (after all, the porting of the first one on PSP sold more, and Silmeria on PS2 sold around 400k units (of course the company wasn't expecting that much being a spin-off).
Therefore, context AND I didn't define the games you've mentioned as bombas. Sigma Harmonics, Blood of Bahamut, SaGa 3, Heroes of Mana and Lufia surely bombed. The others might have underperformed or slighlty disappointed.
As for 3DS:
- Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime 3 bombed, and this was clear since the opening. The series went from 346k (GBA) to 293k (DS - a decline but enough to be successful) to 149k (3DS), achieved through bargain bins.
- Dragon Quest X was successful: SQEX and retailers weren't expecting such sales, and the game was sold-out throughout the first weeks. Also, it's a down-porting of a game already released on 4 platforms, and it's not even a cartridge, but a download code for a streaming app. Actually, it's astonishing that was able to sell so much.
- Theatrhythm Final Fantasy didn't sell so much in absolute terms. The fact, though, that SQEX kept releasing entries is a sign that the project was successful enough; I think this might be due to DLC sales. Also, the series was brought to mobile but it didn't stay there, so 3DS was probably the right choice for SQEX, business-wise.
- Final Fantasy Explorers sold around 280-290k units. It'd have been disappointing on DS, but 3DS is not DS and SQEX knows that. For a low-budget MH rip-off announced in Summer a released in December it seems that numbers were not so bad. We will know whether SQEX considered this as a financial success if there'll be some expansions or sequel.
So, you see, you shouldn't write I wrote things I didn't even imply to begin with.
Now the bolded is just laughable. PSP got high budget, internally developed games and you missed at least a few; Third Birthday, Star Ocean and FFIII off the top of my head.
PSP got far more games out of SE. A lot of that were ports and remakes, but it's not like SE isn't doing that on 3DS too (DQM, DQVII, DQM2, FFI).
Pennywise83
Banned
PSP support was, indeed, more in line with the support received by 3DS. Less titles, more concentrated on IPs and genre that might do well. SQEX developed even the silliest project on DS just to be there, while I see PSP support as more clever and interesting on average. Of course, some games didn't do that well, but this happen when you release many titles.
Oh yeah, that's all. It's funny how you brush off like 5 pretty big and original games there like they're nothing.
3DS has not gotten more original games from them either, unless for whatever reason all the stuff like Heroes of Ruin on 3DS but games like The 3rd Birthday (which like those big 5 was also heavily marketed even though it failed) and Lord of Arcana don't on PSP for whatever weird reason. Or remakes like the DQM remakes count on 3DS but the Star Ocean 1 remake can't possibly count on PSP. You are right about one thing though, 3DS has gotten a good amount of DQ games, though from the looks of it this might not lead up to a mainline game this time.
NeonZ
Member
Phantom Hourglass and Spírit Tracks aren't exactly 2d Zelda titles though. Aside from the gameplay itself not being like classic 2d Zelda, even the camera angle is different from the 2d Zelda games. There's generally a top down view, but of a 3d space, with the camera often moving to a traditional 3d view in cutscenes, dialogue or even for gameplay during vehicle use or a few boss battles.
Meanwhile, the topdown view of the 2d Zelda games is basically impossible in 3d. Just look at Link Between the Worlds and compare it with those two. Although it was a polygonal game, it generally avoided moving the camera, aside from zoom ins, since most environments wouldn't make sense from another point of view. PH and ST were their own thing, not really classic 2d Zelda or standard 3d Zelda games.
Prediction League January 2015 Results
Congratulations to:
- XDDX, for winning by units!
- hiska-kun, for winning by mean error %!
Congratulations to:
- XDDX, for winning by units!
- hiska-kun, for winning by mean error %!
Code:
BY UNITS BY MEAN ERROR %
1 91,696 XDDX 1 15.28% hiska-kun
2 129,807 1st Course 2 23.18% XDDX
3 153,919 sörine 3 25.21% Mpl90
4 157,860 hiska-kun 4 29.60% sörine
5 165,415 Chris1964 5 29.85% Road
6 173,007 Bruno MB 6 31.25% MasterSheen
7 175,807 Eolz 7 33.27% Moor-Angol
8 179,639 MasterSheen 8 34.24% metalslimer
9 184,807 metalslimer 9 34.37% Bruno MB
10 187,807 DrWong 10 34.61% 1st Course
11 193,614 Mpl90 11 35.95% Eolz
12 206,473 Road 12 38.57% Yeshua
13 212,971 astrogamer 13 40.13% Chris1964
14 226,807 Orgen 14 42.35% DrWong
15 245,807 Pennywise83 15 45.57% Pennywise83
16 253,287 Yeshua 16 49.71% Orgen
17 254,778 Moor-Angol 17 49.82% astrogamer
18 448,807 Tripon 18 61.67% Tripon
|FAMITSU |Pennywise|Yeshua |Chris1964|MasterShe|metalslim|astrogame|1st Cours|Eolz |DrWong |Tripon |Orgen |sörine |Bruno MB |Moor-Ango|Road |hiska-kun|XDDX |Mpl90
[3DS] Yokai Watch 2 Shinuchi | 369483| 510000| 500000| 456789| 475000| 450000| 485000| 400000| 398000| 435000| 600000| 481000| 415398| 460000| 463616| 444444| 399999| 380000| 476518
[3DS] Kenka Bancho 6 | 30794| 45000| 70000| 45678| 50000| 40000| 60000| 50000| 45000| 54000| 50000| 57000| 53434| 50000| 26534| 44444| 29999| 55555| 45000
[PS3] Tales of Zestiria | 316824| 280000| 250000| 321098| 350000| 265000| 330000| 280000| 224000| 257000| 176000| 275000| 248431| 288000| 194411| 222222| 200002| 266666| 258123
[3DS] Legend of Legacy | 56594| 39000| 70000| 43210| 65000| 35000| 65000| 25000| 37000| 42000| 35000| 39000| 48123| 34300| 45619| 44444| 56987| 55000| 49633
[WIU] Kirby and the Rainbow Curse | 33334| 70000| 30000| 78901| 20000| 55000| 80000| 45000| 54000| 58000| 70000| 63000| 41834| 45500| 56331| 44444| 24000| 38000| 40045
TOTAL ABS. DIFF. | | 245,807| 253,287| 165,415| 179,639| 184,807| 212,971| 129,807| 175,807| 187,807| 448,807| 226,807| 153,919| 173,007| 254,778| 206,473| 157,860| 91,696| 193,614
MEAN ERROR % | | 45.57%| 38.57%| 40.13%| 31.25%| 34.24%| 49.82%| 34.61%| 35.95%| 42.35%| 61.67%| 49.71%| 29.60%| 34.37%| 33.27%| 29.85%| 15.28%| 23.18%| 25.21%
Code:
STATISTICS | FAMITSU| GAF_AVG| MIN| MAX| UNDER| OVER| CLOSEST BY
[3DS] Yokai Watch 2 Shinuchi | 369,483| 457,265| 380,000| 600,000| | 100%| 380,000 XDDX
[3DS] Kenka Bancho 6 | 30,794| 48,425| 26,534| 70,000| 11%| 89%| 29,999 hiska-kun
[PS3] Tales of Zestiria | 316,824| 260,331| 176,000| 350,000| 83%| 17%| 321,098 Chris1964
[3DS] Legend of Legacy | 56,594| 46,073| 25,000| 70,000| 78%| 22%| 56,987 hiska-kun
[WIU] Kirby and the Rainbow Curse | 33,334| 50,781| 20,000| 80,000| 17%| 83%| 30,000 YeshuaSquare Enix's output is also oddly disperse now.
Like this was common in their Western studios, but their Japanese studios also seem to have adopted the "Have a game on every platform and in every business model." philosophy.
Essentially they still seem to be fishing for potential successes before focusing.
duckroll made a list of their recent Japanese announcements not too long ago and there was something for just about every platform and business model under the sun.
Like this was common in their Western studios, but their Japanese studios also seem to have adopted the "Have a game on every platform and in every business model." philosophy.
Essentially they still seem to be fishing for potential successes before focusing.
duckroll made a list of their recent Japanese announcements not too long ago and there was something for just about every platform and business model under the sun.
I think you are misinterpreting the reason for the low shipment. The capacity of the cloud servers was at its limit and it would have been even worse if they had shipped more.
The 3DS version was intended for people who just don't want to play on consoles or PC. That it might have matched or even surpassed the PC version sales is a feat, before the 3DS version each successive version had sold worse than the previous one. And the 3DS version should have the lowest amount of double dippers, as the Wii U should have the most.
But still, the legs of DQX 3DS are a bit disappointing. All in One Package for Wii U returning to the top 50 to take the 3DS version's place is a good sign though. Some experiences are better had on a console.
Nintendo's online offensive will continue with XBX and Splatoon. DQX paved the way for these and those three games will keep boosting each other throughout the year.
Pennywise83
Banned
IIRC the game had server issues even with the tiny initial shipment. The game went sold-out during the first week-end. DQX was a success no matter how you spin it, because only the idea of buying a code to download a streaming app and playing a MMORPG on a tiny screen (at home, mainly) would have been enough to not expect much from this project. 140-150k for a streaming app is quite a surprise.
PSP was discontinued in June of last year. The trackers likely just wanted one full calendar year.
I suspect they'll continue tracking Xbox One as long as Microsoft has an official presence in Japan and there isn't an XB1 successor available. That means we could see weeks of 0 units sold.
Konami's relationship with Sony is perceived almost as well as Sony and Square. Other than a Nisekoi visual novel, the only thing Konami releases on Vita are baseball games. So I kind of doubt the need to release something on Vita is the result of Square feeling obligated to. No one else seems to have that desire.
I think Dragon Quest Heroes would've sold pretty well on Vita. The anime tie-in Musou games have both done +100k on Vita and those are smaller than what DQH will be. I doubt there's a technical reason preventing that, given Omega Force's prolific Vita downports. The other mobile ports would've fit in their "strategy" (can something so scattershot be called a strategy?) of things like Agito, Deadman's Cross, Rise of Mana, etc.
This is not context. Your analysis is filled with assumptions that all converge to guessing that Square Enix DS games sold less than the expected to make them look worse than the 3DS games, though the DS games sold more. Also, you make assumptions that 3DS are all throwaway games that did a lot better than the expected.
It is the same argument you used to try to take away all the responsibility of the 3DS bombas in the bad financial state Imageepoch is now and put it on the shoulders of PSP games, by making claims that maybe they have invested a lot (what doesn't seem likely by the way the games look) and sold less than expected.
We can start making assumptions to defend any argument, but it gets boring, repetitive and pointless.
Pennywise83
Banned
No one is talking about SQEX feeling obligated to publish. But SQEX made clear throughout the years that they want to support, somehow, every platform.
DQ Heroes might have sold well, though. Perhaps, they wanted to push the PS4 and they felt PSV might have deviated consumers.
That's not what I wrote.
a. some 3DS games sold more, some 3DS sold less: it was crystal clear throughout my reply. Direct comparisons are not always that meaningful, though. With which DS game are you going to compare Theatrhythm? The fact that it spanned two sequels (which are 3DS exclusives, while the first one was ported on mobile) should be sufficient to say that the first one was at least mildly successful for SQEX. There's a comparable game that sold more on 3DS (Bravely Second vs. The 4 Heroes of Light); there's also a comparable game that sold less (Rocket Slime 3): this is what I wrote. Also, I explained why those mentioned DS games, in my opinion, underperformed, and were not that successful.
b. you said that FF Explorers was a low-budget game. A lot of DS games were also low-budget. Many of those I mentioned are. This doesn't change that some of them bombed or underperformed.
That's what I wrote, and it's way more complex that your simplifying reply.
That's not what I wrote in that topic.
What I wrote there was that sure, 3DS games bombed (it was me to bring the 50k expectations number in that very thread talking about God of the City) but, in my opinion, imageepoch issues started well before, with Tokitowa (talking about contracted works) and with some PSP games that, in my opinion, might not have achieved the company's expectations. You have BRS that sold 134k, and than all the other self-published games below 100k, with Sol Trigger around 60k. Were they successful? Maybe, but in that case imageepoch would have keep investing in new IPs and higher budget jRPGs. I just don't think 3DS games were the sole reason of imageepoch problems, in terms of self-publishing, otherwise they would have not developing the "clean" remake of an hentai game and a idol-sim based on a character created for a music festival (which bombed in a similar game on PS3 as well).
That's what I wrote, and it's way more complex that your simplifying reply.
We are all making assumptions when talking about sales, because companies are basically black boxes to us, and cannot usually know expectations, budgets, and so on. That's why I try to interpret and read market signals as I can. I might be wrong, but at least I try to develop a reasoning, instead of making fun of the user, and avoiding the topic discussed.
March is insane:
Dragon Quest Heroes
Yakuza Zero
Sword Art Online Lost Song
Bloodborne
One Piece Pirate Warriors 3
Senran Kagura Estival Versus
Final Fantasy Type-0 HD
Theatrhythm Dragon Quest
Mario Party 10
Etrian Mystery Dungeon
Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth
Resident Evil Revelations 2
Battlefield Hardline
Pro Baseball Spirits 2015
Shin Prince of Tennis Go To the Top
Disgaea 5
Mario vs. Donkey Kong Tripping Stars
Kuroko no Basuke: Kuroko e no Kizuna
Am I forgetting any "relevant" game?
We'll have to cut that list half for the predictions...
It has been a while for the Xbox family: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4978967&postcount=394
Dragon Quest Heroes
Yakuza Zero
Sword Art Online Lost Song
Bloodborne
One Piece Pirate Warriors 3
Senran Kagura Estival Versus
Final Fantasy Type-0 HD
Theatrhythm Dragon Quest
Mario Party 10
Etrian Mystery Dungeon
Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth
Resident Evil Revelations 2
Battlefield Hardline
Pro Baseball Spirits 2015
Shin Prince of Tennis Go To the Top
Disgaea 5
Mario vs. Donkey Kong Tripping Stars
Kuroko no Basuke: Kuroko e no Kizuna
Am I forgetting any "relevant" game?
We'll have to cut that list half for the predictions...
It has been a while for the Xbox family: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4978967&postcount=394
Pennywise83
Banned
There also the 2nd Kuroko's Basketball game for 3DS; it might not sell as well as the 1st one, but it should crack the 40k mark.
Wii U? The only thing Square Enix has released on that platform is DQX and I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo paid for that.
The PS3 release hinders the PS4 version's selling potential far more than a Vita one would. But yes, I guess having a marquee PS4 game sell worst on PS4 wouldn't have been a great look.
How DARE you neglect Funassyi *shocked Mii face*
For DQ Heroes I suspect the lack of Vita is a technical constraint.
The description of the PS3 version doesn't sound amazing:
The description of the PS3 version doesn't sound amazing:
I said it was a success (it probably beat the PC version), I just pointed out that you don't want to release too many copies of a game into the wild when you know the initial interest will kill your servers. This doesn't have anything to do with low expectations, just with understanding the nature of your product. Low initial shipment is more indicative of that than of low expectations.
Pennywise83
Banned
Well, SQEX is the only third party releasing a game on Wii U during 2015
Yeah buy it would have been:
PS3+PS4>PS3+PSV>PSV+PS4
This is true, of course. DQX on 3DS, though, never looked more like than an experiment to try cloud gaming on 3DS, more than a serious effort to expand DQX userbase.
I disagree. Both Sony and SE seem to have high expectations from cloud gaming with PS Now and that Shinra thing repectively. That said, releasing on the most successful platform should increase your userbase. And it did, considering it matched the PC version.
Edit: Also, and I said this before, releasing on 3DS makes people consider the game even if they might had not been doing so before. Even if they realized the 3DS isn't the most suitable platform, it raises interest among gamers who until then ruled out a purchase based on not playing on the systems it's available for. Once you want a game, you start also considering buying a system for it.
Pennywise83
Banned
Fair enough: it was a useful advertising device, but I disagree SQEX had high expectations for this particular product; it is investing on streaming services, but DQX on 3DS didn't seem like the most important product, just an experiment probably for a future handheld project.
You may put things in bullet points and rewrite some sentences, but your argument keeps being based on your assumption that some DS games bombed or underperformed, while 3DS ones didn't. The only reason you gave is that you think SE expected more from those games, and it is not a logical reason. So, in essence, your argument is not a bit more complex than my simplifying reply.
Again, the only argument you bring is that you think that those games underperformed and caused Imageepoch problems. Based on what? The only reason you gave is that you thing Imageepoch expected those games to sell more than they did. Again, it is not a logical reason, and removing the rewriting, it is not a bit more complex than my simplifying reply.
Companies are black boxes, but it doesn't make automatically any guess about objective things right just because companies are black boxes. You can use your personal feelings and impressions as much as you want to build your arguments, but you can expect your arguments to be challenged every time you use "your feeling that a game sold way under/above expectations" without any publisher statement or relevant fact (like game flooding bomba-bins) to back your argument.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
PS4 port when it gets localised I bet.
I was suggesting PS3, PS4 and Vita. Omega Force can handle more than 2 SKUs, as this week's chart demonstrates.
I wouldn't bet on that happening.
If they are planning a PS4 launch, why not just make it multi from the start?
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
Lol, the PS4 won't hit 2M this year. If it does, that'll be a huge success, as that would be better than the PS3's best year.
Rodea doesn't count? That's Sega right?Well, SQEX is the only third party releasing a game on Wii U during 2015
@Pennywise - I'm pretty sure you're talking about Bravely Default, the original game, and not Bravely Second, its sequel to be released in April in some of your previous posts.
Pennywise83
Banned
Nope.
My initial arguments (that you can re-read here) was that 3DS support comes from SQEX decision to shift resources to mobile (while leaving a good chunk people working on home consoles... Not because they have much more projects on them with respect to the previous generation, but mainly because the current projects require more people), and it is line with what all the other companies are doing. It's not only SQEX that decreased its output on handheld (and partially on home consoles), but also Konami, Capcom, and so on. Then, I elaborated a bit more (you can re-read here) adding that most of SQEX support on 3DS comes also from what was selling and what was not selling on DS in its late life-cycle.
The reasons I gave about why those DS games that, in my opinion, underperformed or bombed are not only about expectations (actually, about absolute sales), but concern whether those games got sequels or spin-offs, and how they compared with previous entries in the same franchise, or with similar games. If you want to argue a different things, than I'm willing to read why you think those games sold well or not.
Nope.
First of all, my point was within a debate about what caused imageepoch potential closure. Secondly, I was focusing on self-publishing, because for what concerns contracted works, we can easily say which game(s) caused the diffidence publishers had (Tokitowa, mainly). Then, what I wrote was about the fact that yes, 3DS games bombed, but I didn't think that was the sole reason. Also, if imageepoch had been happy about the sales of PSP games, they would have kept investing in publishing mid-budget jRPGs; they went, instead, on a cheaper route on 3DS while keep ignoring PSV.
You can challenge my argument, but what I see here is only you saying that I wrote something I haven't actually written. I gave reasons why I believe the things I wrote were somehow correct or reasonable. You didn't.
I agree. People need to get out of the past (PS3), & move on to the future (PS4).
But is this even accurate? Is Toshin Toshi and Stella Glow really cheaper than their PSP output? Is that an observation based on actual experience with their games? Because Imageepoch games are incredibly cheap. I can't imagine that picking between PSP, 3DS, or Vita would really indicate much about budget. The games they've made which have the highest production values are all from larger publishers. Last Ranker in particular actually had cutscenes which weren't embarrassingly poor because Capcom had their own staff involved with supervising animation and modeling, along with full motion capture. Imageepoch isn't really capable of such quality alone, as evidenced by Black Rock Shooter.
Pennywise83
Banned
As for self-publishing games, SoniPro on 3DS looks extremely low-budget; don't know how much imageepoch had to pay for the licensing; that girl is not Miku, though. Also, Final Promise Story looks a much bigger project than Toshin Toshi. Of course, we will never know how they costed to imageepoch. One thing, though, is clear, and that is they changed attitude and scope of their projects from late-2010 / 2011 to 2014 (when tohse 3DS games were released). It's not me who said that wanted to save the genre with promising projects.
SoniPro is actually not even developed by Imageepoch. Imageepoch produced and published the game, but it was developed by Tam Soft. So yeah, it's ghetto. But it's also possible that by this point they didn't have many options left.
I think the reality is that what probably hit Imageepoch hardest is that they were no longer able to get contracts from major publishers anymore. Their self-publishing business is not enough to sustain the company after they started expanded earlier on. That's doesn't automatically mean that their self-published games were not successful. Just that it is not enough to sustain the growth of the company. At one point they were developing 3-4 projects are the same time, and if the contracts dried up, they would have to downsize.
Pennywise83
Banned
Indeed. They were expecting too much, and they couldn't keep working on that scale. That's why I said they invested a lot in being the saviour of jRPGs, and this didn't work it out. Then of course, they couldn't succeed on 3DS either, which didn't help.
I think he meant reach 2 mil life time sale by end of this year.
Also, seeing people mention TWEWY makes me sad
I think he meant reach 2 mil life time sale by end of this year.
Also, seeing people mention TWEWY makes me sad
At least there's always the ipho- oh...
Kresnik258
Member
Do you think there's no scope for them to work for Bandai-Namco? They're always contracting devs in to create anime spin-offs, plenty of which are capable of being JRPG's.
When I mentioned it in the other thread, it always seemed that Imageepoch never settled down with any particular publisher after their agreement with Marvelous ended and just flitted all over the place (Capcom; SEGA; NIS).
I'm wondering if Time & Eternity soured their relationship.
Well as I mentioned in the other thread both MMV and NIS decided to not hire them for sequels/New entries in series they made. It's a possibility that they didn't endear themselves to publishers, especially once they started self publishing.
I think in general there's less interest these days in making a RPG if you don't have to. For licensed titles in particular, it seems to be a more popular decision to shit out action/adventure or casual fighting stuff which can be developed in a shorter cycle. If there was really a demand for external RPG developers, we would probably see tri-Ace, Witchcraft, Media Vision, etc get more work. Even companies who had a good reputation developing RPGs for the DS are finding it increasingly hard to get work today - Matrix, h.a.n.d., Jupiter, etc have all turned to more mobile contracts to keep going.