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Megalopolis | Rottenwatch

Well that was certainly something!

It’s absurd, naive, pseudo-intellectual, badly acted, badly directed, badly edited, and a really good time. Thumbs up.
Sounds like the Coppola of the past few decades I know!

I still cannot wrap my head around how someone can make such staggering achievements and such abject Mystery Science Theater level shit in one lifetime. I find it fascinating somehow.

Edit: I saw Tetro in the theater and I've NEVER seen an audience so bewildered and angry. It was kind of hilarious.
 
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qm21sWY.jpeg
Lol that's fucking good
 

DKehoe

Member
I saw it last night and I think I liked it?

knives-out-it-makes-no-damn-sense.gif


It's a mess but it's packed with so many ideas and is so earnest about them while also being playfully absurd that I kinda have to respect it, particularly given the context of how it's been made.

There was something touching about the idea of Cesar having this incredible gift, the ability to manipulate time which the film says is what artists do, that he then loses but manages to regain by sharing that experience with someone he cares about. My interpretation might be off, but given how personal the film is to Coppola, I saw this section as him grappling with the idea that he might have lost his ability to connect with a wider audience. However, he still finds meaning in connecting with those close to him. Considering how Roman and Sofia have gone on to have successful careers in film, he could also be seeing that ability passed on to them. It also makes the film being dedicated to his wife even more poignant.

The film is one I'll probably be thinking about for a while. So if anyone has any interesting reviews or discussions of it they can share please share them here.

I'm glad Coppola made it happen, the mad bastard.
 

thefool

Member
Talked with a few guys who really enjoyed it.

We seriously need a platform that is bot-resistant that gauges audience interest in consumer products.
 
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efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
Well that was certainly something!

It’s absurd, naive, pseudo-intellectual, badly acted, badly directed, badly edited, and a really good time. Thumbs up.
Sounds like a Star Wars prequel, and I mean that as a compliment!
Will definitely watch!
 
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clarky

Gold Member
Difference between Jeremy's review and Kermode's is pretty crazy. Kermode just trashed it completely, no redeeming qualities but Jeremy at least gives it props for the themes and expressions of those themes.

Interesting.

omg this clip


Now then i'm actually a bit more interested in watching this after that clip.

I can easily sit through a few hours of bollocks like in the clip above. As long as i get progressively more drunk as the film goes on.
 
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Toons

Member
Are we really still relying on Rotten Tomatoes and modern critics to make a judgements on films?

The trick is that rotten tomatoes is very accurate whenever it agrees with you but when it doesn't, the reviews are manipulated or the critics are all clueless

Anyways this doesn't sound like something I'd have any pleasure watching but the reviews across the internet are hilarious.

Its an interesting microcosm of people liking something vs wanting to like it that gets overlooked. Like you get the feeling that if this had a Disney logo in front of it or literally anyone else directed it that it would get zero defense from anyone but because its ford and its ambitious and its avante garde that some are much more alwilling to align their expectations with the artists vision. Thats something that should always be the case, but very rarely is.

I look forward to seeing how the GA accepts it as a whole.
 
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Toons

Member
Also amazing is this film has the exact same RT score as the Rise of Skywalker, which also stars Adam Driver as an egomaniac with special abilities by a director many say is past his prime and serves as the final note on a long lasting and well known series of films with a variety of quality levels
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Like you get the feeling that if this had a Disney logo in front of it or literally anyone else directed it that it would get zero defense from anyone but because its ford and its ambitious and its avante garde that some are much more alwilling to align their expectations with the artists vision.
Disney wouldn’t make this in one hundred trillion years.
 

Toons

Member
Disney wouldn’t make this in one hundred trillion years.

Oh we agree on that. Not a chance. I dotn think most studios would. They are ultimately commercially minded, not artistically so, and this is about as non commercial as you can get even for a filmmaker of this caliber.

Its cool that ford had the wherewithal to do this himself. I just hope it turned out the way he wanted in any case. I can't imagine he expected this to be universally acclaimed. I wonder what his peers will think of the movie; the other great filmmakers. I wonder what future filmmakers will be inspired by from it, if they will swing hard in the opposite direction, or if they will seek to emulate this complete artful disregard for convention in their own way
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
I saw it last night and I think I liked it?

knives-out-it-makes-no-damn-sense.gif


It's a mess but it's packed with so many ideas and is so earnest about them while also being playfully absurd that I kinda have to respect it, particularly given the context of how it's been made.

There was something touching about the idea of Cesar having this incredible gift, the ability to manipulate time which the film says is what artists do, that he then loses but manages to regain by sharing that experience with someone he cares about. My interpretation might be off, but given how personal the film is to Coppola, I saw this section as him grappling with the idea that he might have lost his ability to connect with a wider audience. However, he still finds meaning in connecting with those close to him. Considering how Roman and Sofia have gone on to have successful careers in film, he could also be seeing that ability passed on to them. It also makes the film being dedicated to his wife even more poignant.

The film is one I'll probably be thinking about for a while. So if anyone has any interesting reviews or discussions of it they can share please share them here.

I'm glad Coppola made it happen, the mad bastard.
Aha, finally someone to discuss the film with. I think your interpretation is correct. It’s a personal film about being a creator and grappling with his inner demons, the public, and the major institutions. Stopping time in the film is never done as a way to accomplish a tangible goal. It’s always just facilitating a poignant moment of reflection for observers (us, or Julia) by capturing a frame of something fleeting in the world and holding onto it. That’s his superpower.

Julia’s arc is also all about moving past the shallow, self-centered Hollywood socialite life (which, honestly, the film struggles to even satirize since the real world counterpart is almost identically absurd, but Shia does his best!), letting go of her egotism to find passionate work and build a family. I’m sure we can identify parallels there.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
The trick is that rotten tomatoes is very accurate whenever it agrees with you but when it doesn't, the reviews are manipulated or the critics are all clueless
The thing with RT is critics will often reward something that, as jaded viewers of COUNTLESS films, they find interesting or novel but the average audience finds obtuse, impenetrable, or outright baffling. So you get a high critic score but a midling to low audience one.

Then you have a film that isn't great but has "social virtue" and critics are reluctant to outright bad mouth it, so it gets graded on a curve, leading to a higher RT score than it should get and the audience score better reflects is true merit.

There are films on the other side of that, where the "message" is something audiences resonate with but critics want to poo-poo, like "The Terminal List" with a ridiculously low critic score but a very high audience score.

And then there are the crowd pleasers that have no artistic value but the rabble just enjoys.

So you really gotta take both scores into account and when you see a dramatic gap between them then the reasons are often pretty clear.
 

DKehoe

Member
Aha, finally someone to discuss the film with. I think your interpretation is correct. It’s a personal film about being a creator and grappling with his inner demons, the public, and the major institutions. Stopping time in the film is never done as a way to accomplish a tangible goal. It’s always just facilitating a poignant moment of reflection for observers (us, or Julia) by capturing a frame of something fleeting in the world and holding onto it. That’s his superpower.

Julia’s arc is also all about moving past the shallow, self-centered Hollywood socialite life (which, honestly, the film struggles to even satirize since the real world counterpart is almost identically absurd, but Shia does his best!), letting go of her egotism to find passionate work and build a family. I’m sure we can identify parallels there.
It is kinda odd to see how few people in the thread have actually watched it and are discussing the film itself. I realise it wasn't ever going to be a smash hit with people flocking to see it in droves but I don't get why more people here wouldn't at least be curious to see what it's like firsthand after all this time. I know that's what drew me to see it.

Yeh Cesar's ability to stop time isn't something he uses like a superpower. It's more that it gives him a perspective that other people just don't have and that's part of why he's this incredible architect. It's about having an artistic gift and using that to produce something incredible. But, since we also see Cesar pissing people off along the way, it's also about having the drive and self-belief to not only have the vision but to be able to follow through on it. And in that way Megalopolis is kind of about itself. Coppola finally managed the thing that pretty much no one thought he could do and did it through his own sheer force of will. It's his own testament to himself.

I know this picture has been joked about a bit in this thread. But this looks like a guy framing a shot as part of the production process.

megalopolis.jpg
francis-ford-coppola-palazzo-margherita-rich-cohen-ss01.jpg


Ideally, I could have found a picture of Coppola using a viewfinder since it's a more visually similar tool than a camera but you get the idea. If you want to show someone being an architect then I would have thought the go-to thing would be showing Cesar poring over blueprints yet in this scene with Julia talking to him while he's working he's doing something much more akin to a filmmaker's process.

Like you say, it's about an artist grappling with their own issues, like sex and drug use, as well as the wider societal institutions that an artist has to contend with. Cicero is politics, Crassus is finance. For the artist to achieve what they want they need to engage with those institutions to some degree and that's especially the case if you want to work on a grand scale, whether that be building a city or making a multi-million dollar film. In highlighting Cesar's personal issues I wonder if it's Coppola worrying that his own may overshadow his work.

As well as Julia being initially fairly shallow and full of herself without much to back it up ("I did one year at medical school!") she's also Cicero's daughter and therefore part of the society's political institution. At the end of the film she and Cesar are united in behind a vision and you even have Crassus pledging to support it. So these pillars of society are coming together behind a singular vision for how things can be. It reminds me of how an artist like Wagner, someone who also certainly had personal issues as well as vast talent, talked about how he wanted his work to show a better way for the world to be and something people could unite behind to move forward. Yeh those ideas might be wildly grand and impractical, they're not going to build the greatest opera house in the world just to burn it down after one performance of The Ring Cycle. But maybe these works of art do start the kinds of debates that Cesar talks about society needing and are what unites and pushes us forward. Cesar's actual plan is kept pretty vague outside of "build an amazing city using this amazing material." But I think that like a lot of art it's about what you take from it rather than it telling you what to think. If we have Cesar's great debate then it leads us to ask what does a utopia look like and how do we get there? And maybe that prompting can be a function of great art. We don't just need to accept how things are right now, we can look forward and try to move towards that.

Cesar and Julia's baby is called Sunny Hope, a name which is laughably on the nose for how upbeat and optimistic it is. But we see that Sunny Hope appears to share her father's gift when it comes to time. What we come together to produce, whether that be as a society or the next generation, can be a better version of ourselves. After all, the baby could have just been Francis but instead will be something new and is front and centre in the final shot.

I realise I'm a bit all over the place here. But I'm still turning the film over in my mind and figuring out what I think about it. So maybe I'll have a totally different opinion on what it is about by next week. And perhaps this all got a bit pretentious. But fuck it, if you can't be pretentious about art then what's the point?

Reading your thoughts and writing out my own helps me try and figure out what I think about the film. Because I've got to take the time to try and connect the dots in my head and come up with something that's (at least somewhat) cohesive. It's one of the things I really enjoy about discussing films. Reading other's perspectives and getting a better handle on my own can give me a greater appreciation for the film itself. So thanks for the reply.

Also, can you talk a bit more about what "The Ultimate Experience" involved? How did that play out?
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
It is kinda odd to see how few people in the thread have actually watched it and are discussing the film itself. I realise it wasn't ever going to be a smash hit with people flocking to see it in droves but I don't get why more people here wouldn't at least be curious to see what it's like firsthand after all this time. I know that's what drew me to see it.
These days if something isn't an event movie then people will tend to wait for streaming. Personally, I thought going to Megalopolis was much more worthwhile than seeing the latest comic book superhero movie or nostalgia soft reboot.

Yeh Cesar's ability to stop time isn't something he uses like a superpower. It's more that it gives him a perspective that other people just don't have and that's part of why he's this incredible architect. It's about having an artistic gift and using that to produce something incredible. But, since we also see Cesar pissing people off along the way, it's also about having the drive and self-belief to not only have the vision but to be able to follow through on it. And in that way Megalopolis is kind of about itself. Coppola finally managed the thing that pretty much no one thought he could do and did it through his own sheer force of will. It's his own testament to himself.
Yes. I enjoyed the moment where Julia confronts Cesar about putting up his bad guy front. There's truth to the notion that in the public-facing world, the people trying exceptionally hard to preserve their righteous image are often the people you need to worry the most about. Having an "evil" public-facing persona can mean you're not willing to play those games, and want to be true to yourself, but also has a self-destructive angle to it, which we see Cesar struggle with as he pops pills and blacks out in the club, get accused of things with Vesta et al. It's a challenge to navigate however you end up being perceived by the public, in real life.

I know this picture has been joked about a bit in this thread. But this looks like a guy framing a shot as part of the production process.


Ideally, I could have found a picture of Coppola using a viewfinder since it's a more visually similar tool than a camera but you get the idea. If you want to show someone being an architect then I would have thought the go-to thing would be showing Cesar poring over blueprints yet in this scene with Julia talking to him while he's working he's doing something much more akin to a filmmaker's process.
And of course, the end result is pure movie magic in utopian city form.

As well as Julia being initially fairly shallow and full of herself without much to back it up ("I did one year at medical school!") she's also Cicero's daughter and therefore part of the society's political institution. At the end of the film she and Cesar are united in behind a vision and you even have Crassus pledging to support it. So these pillars of society are coming together behind a singular vision for how things can be. It reminds me of how an artist like Wagner, someone who also certainly had personal issues as well as vast talent, talked about how he wanted his work to show a better way for the world to be and something people could unite behind to move forward. Yeh those ideas might be wildly grand and impractical, they're not going to build the greatest opera house in the world just to burn it down after one performance of The Ring Cycle. But maybe these works of art do start the kinds of debates that Cesar talks about society needing and are what unites and pushes us forward. Cesar's actual plan is kept pretty vague outside of "build an amazing city using this amazing material." But I think that like a lot of art it's about what you take from it rather than it telling you what to think. If we have Cesar's great debate then it leads us to ask what does a utopia look like and how do we get there? And maybe that prompting can be a function of great art. We don't just need to accept how things are right now, we can look forward and try to move towards that.
That's a thoughtful take, yes. I couldn't help but laugh several times through the movie at how naive and sophomoric some of the earnestly delivered points were. But by the end credits I respected Coppola for doing it. He doesn't have the answers to how to construct a better world out of the base and dystopian one we have, but his main point is to keep dreaming instead of letting cynicism take over. And that's absolutely a necessary ideal for humanity. NASA lost its funding for decades because people decried how much the government was spending on it instead of solving social problems, and there is absolutely a fair point there, just like Cicero argues in the film. But where would we be if we kept pushing forward after Apollo? With colonies on other planets by now, possibly, and vastly different technology available in our day to day lives. Moonshots change the world.

Cesar and Julia's baby is called Sunny Hope, a name which is laughably on the nose for how upbeat and optimistic it is. But we see that Sunny Hope appears to share her father's gift when it comes to time. What we come together to produce, whether that be as a society or the next generation, can be a better version of ourselves. After all, the baby could have just been Francis but instead will be something new and is front and centre in the final shot.
Certainly deliberate, the mention of what the baby's name could've been. The contrasting names made me laugh, but when you see how it plays out in the film the symbolism becomes apparent. It's too bad that the final act feels a bit rushed and could've used another 10-15 minutes to get where it was going.
I realise I'm a bit all over the place here. But I'm still turning the film over in my mind and figuring out what I think about it. So maybe I'll have a totally different opinion on what it is about by next week. And perhaps this all got a bit pretentious. But fuck it, if you can't be pretentious about art then what's the point?

Reading your thoughts and writing out my own helps me try and figure out what I think about the film. Because I've got to take the time to try and connect the dots in my head and come up with something that's (at least somewhat) cohesive. It's one of the things I really enjoy about discussing films. Reading other's perspectives and getting a better handle on my own can give me a greater appreciation for the film itself. So thanks for the reply.

Also, can you talk a bit more about what "The Ultimate Experience" involved? How did that play out?
Agreed. Leaving the theater with something to actually discuss is a major victory for the film, something lost on all the people making fun of clips on social media. Yes, Megalopolis is bonkers, but it's not devoid of substance whatsoever.

The Ultimate Experience screening: at one point late in the film, Cesar is on a zoom call or some such, and in theater in real life an actor walks up to the front with a mic stand and has a faux interaction with Cesar where he reads a few lines off. It lasts around a minute and then the guy leaves. It was tastefully done but not strictly necessary.
 
I have nothing but complete respect for Coppola getting this film made and releasing it almost on his own, but the screenplay is so poor that it really diminishes the voice and lofty themes it aims for. The relationships and motivations of the characters are so unclear it makes it difficult to understand what is even happening or what the film is trying to build towards. Even with that said, I didn't hate the movie and will probably watch it again to try and make some sense of it. Would rather watch something unique like this than some bland studio garbage.

I saw the "Ultimate Experience" last Monday and the theater was filled with heavy laughter and ironic cheers at the end, probably the most memorable theater going experience I've had lol.
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Ouch! Megalopolis made only $4 million at the box office this weekend. It's one thing to see a big Hollywood studio loose a fortune on a badly received movie, but in this Coppola has self-financed his dream project ($140 million including marketing) and will get close to nothing back from this financial folly.


Coppola’s ‘Megalopolis’ Plays to Near-Empty Theaters​

Francis Ford Coppola spent roughly $140 million on the film, which debuted to an estimated $4 million in weekend ticket sales.



Francis Ford Coppola, wearing a tan jacket, leans on a white table. Behind him are rows of photographers.


There is no kind way to put it: Francis Ford Coppola’s “Megalopolis” died on arrival over the weekend.
Mr. Coppola, 85, spent decades on the avant-garde fable, ultimately selling part of his wine business to raise the necessary funds — about $120 million in production costs and another $20 million or so in marketing and distribution expenses. But moviegoers rejected the film: Ticket sales from Thursday night through Sunday will total roughly $4 million in North America, according to analysts, slightly below worst-case scenario prerelease projections.
“Megalopolis” played in nearly 2,000 theaters in the United States and Canada. As of Saturday evening, it was on pace to place sixth in the weekend box office derby, behind even “Devara Part 1,” a poorly reviewed, three-hour, Telugu-language action drama that was available in around 1,000 theaters.
 
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Deft Beck

Member
I got free tickets to this movie and even I didn't want to see it in the theater. If anything, I'll catch it on VOD if it's a good ironic watch.
 

Jaybe

Member
Handily the worst film I’ve ever seen in a theatre, so at least in some way it was an experience. It’s like how I imagine a film school from a C-tier college would be, at least script and plot-wise. Aside from Driver, every other actor was awful. Nathalie Emmanuel shouldn’t be more than an extra on set let alone a lead. The only thing redeeming quality from this are some nice visuals.
 

Chuck Berry

Gold Member
Driver's line delivery is cracking me up big time. Never thought he was anything special in the acting dept but this is definitely....something else :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Really gotta check it out whenever it starts streaming. Love me some Coppola anything

And it still reminds me of a Bioshock
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
About to see this. Only 4 people in the theater and all of us are clustered right in the middle :p

It's that awkward bit where I have to decide if I slide over a seat so I don't sit next to a stranger or stick to the assigned seat (though he must have picked it knowing it would be right next to me, the only other taken seat in the row).

Maybe there will be more excitement in the theater than I anticipated :p
 

Days like these...

Have a Blessed Day
About to see this. Only 4 people in the theater and all of us are clustered right in the middle :p

It's that awkward bit where I have to decide if I slide over a seat so I don't sit next to a stranger or stick to the assigned seat (though he must have picked it knowing it would be right next to me, the only other taken seat in the row).

Maybe there will be more excitement in the theater than I anticipated :p
Move up or down a row? Don't start blowing each other
 

clarky

Gold Member
About to see this. Only 4 people in the theater and all of us are clustered right in the middle :p

It's that awkward bit where I have to decide if I slide over a seat so I don't sit next to a stranger or stick to the assigned seat (though he must have picked it knowing it would be right next to me, the only other taken seat in the row).

Maybe there will be more excitement in the theater than I anticipated :p

Now im more interested in where you are sat than impressions of the actual movie.
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
Well, that was a movie. It's far too sloppy, strangely edited, and rushed with no real sense of continuity or place to be any kind fof cult hit. Waaaay too much money thrown at it for it to be an indie darling yet it feels very cheap in a lot of places, I think he definitely ran out of money for the last 25 minutes.

Thematically I appreciated the attempt at world building, at least until he dropped all pretense of it. The idea of a utopia and how folks just won't accept it is cool, but the maguffin "megapolite" or whatever that shit is really distracted, as did the time stop stuff which had no payoff and never went anywhere other than to sell the first scene in a trailer. I did appreciate the whole "You can see right through me" virgin stuff and a lot of the favors he called in for elaborate cameos were fun. Aubrey Plaza continues her run as the sexiest temptress working today and Natalie Emmanuel continues to get paler and paler with each movie, stunning to look at but painful to see act. Shia was the real star for me, that guy is just living his best life :p

And if you had told me that Giancarlo Esposito and his wife in the film, Kathryn Hunter, were born just a year apart I would have slapped you silly, but wow, black don't crack!

And no, no action in the seats. But by the end there were 6 dudes in the theater, all of us sitting next to or right behind each other in the center. Cozy :p
 
I got some time to kill and a free AMC refund ticket from last year that's about to expire (from watching Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny. no it wasn't because the movie sucked so bad, even thou it does). figured I will give it a try. I went in mostly blind and not sure what to expect. I heard it's messy. confusing. but it's a Coppola film so I'm willing to try. after watching it I have to say I don't mind it. it's different, that's for sure. Coppola feels like he's just trying to tell a story in a different way than what we usually see in a Hollywood movie. it's like a stage play and arthouse film hybrid with a blockbuster budget and a permission to go full ham for all the actors. the story itself honestly isn't all that confusing and all the time stop or sci-fi stuff you can just see it as some extra fluff that doesn't really make that big of a difference in the grand scheme of of the core story. it is still just a very traditional story that's expressed in a very different way. I can't really say if it's good or bad, but I feel it's interesting at the least. thou I'm not sure if the studio heads would feel the same from the box office report thou, but sometimes that's just how it is I guess.
 

ÆMNE22A!C

NO PAIN TRANCE CONTINUE
The title of this film reminded me of Metropolis


Have yet so see although I've seen a relatively short surface level analysis/interpretation of it's premise/plot/subject matter and symbolism.

I'll wait for Megalopolis to hit the streams and will go in blind so haven't read the thread sans Evilore's OP which piqued my interest.
 

DKehoe

Member
Not gonna lie, these two posts has made me reconsider watching it. I had no interest before, but I think I really need to experience it. Also some very interesting and deep thoughts about it posted here has made me go in with the right mindset. Going to have to see if I have an opportunity this weekend.
I think it's worth checking it out to so you can see what your opinion is on it. It's a big weird thing and we're unlikely to see something like it happen again.
 
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