Support NeoGAF

[Topher]

Satya Nadella

---

Now on to gaming, we are focused on improving the profitability of the business in order to position it for long-term growth driven by higher margin content and platform services and we are delivering on this plan.

Black Ops 6 was top selling game on Xbox and PlayStation this quarter and saw more players in its launch quarter than any other paid release in the franchise history. And we saw rave reviews of Indiana Jones and the Great Circle which has already been played by more than 4 million people.

We also continue to see strong momentum for Xbox Cloud Gaming with a record 140 million hours streamed this quarter. All-up Game Pass set a new quarterly record for revenue and grew its PC subscriber base by over 30% as we focus on driving fully paid subscribers across endpoints.

---

Amy Hood

---

And in Gaming, revenue decreased 7% and 8% in constant currency as content and services growth continued to be offset by hardware declines. Xbox content and services revenue increased 2%, ahead of expectations driven by stronger than expected performance in Blizzard and Activision content, including Call of Duty.

Segment gross margin dollars increased 13% and 12% in constant currency. Gross margin percentage increased six points year-over-year driven by sales mix shift to higher margin businesses as well as strong execution on margin improvement in Gaming and Search. Operating expenses decreased 1%. Operating income increased 32% and 30% in constant currency driven by continued prioritization of higher margin opportunities.
...
And in Gaming, we expect revenue growth to be in the low-single-digits. We expect Xbox content and services revenue growth to be in the low to mid-single-digits driven by first-party content as well as Xbox Game Pass. Hardware revenue will decline year-over-year.

---

Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) Q2 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

Microsoft Corporation (NASDAQ:MSFT) Q2 2025 Earnings Conference Call January 29, 2025 5:30 PM ETCompany ParticipantsBrett Iversen - Vice President of...

seekingalpha.com

 

[twilo99]

100% fail on their part

 

[Magic Carpet]

Am I counted as part of the PC growth when I downgraded from Ultimate to PC only?

 

[Insanemaelstrom]

30% growth in revenue does paint a better picture than 2% increase in content and services. It does include 20% increase in revenue that came from price increase last year( pc gamepass went from 9.99 per month to 11.99, which is 20%). Considering that, they still had a 10% increase is good, as it should mainly be due to new subs to pc gamepass.

Also, the lack of mention( atleast for now?) of console gamepass is a bit weird. Did it experience no noticeable growth even after cod and a good quater of new releases added to the service( age of mythology, ms flight simulator 24, Indiana Jones, etc)?

 

[ReBurn]

Am I counted as part of the PC growth when I downgraded from Ultimate to PC only?

You are what is called negative revenue growth. So yes, technically.

 

[Topher]

30% growth in revenue does paint a better picture than 2% increase in content and services. It does include 20% increase in revenue that came from price increase last year( pc gamepass went from 9.99 per month to 11.99, which is 20%). Considering that, they still had a 10% increase is good, as it should mainly be due to new subs to pc gamepass.

Also, the lack of mention( atleast for now?) of console gamepass is a bit weird. Did it experience no noticeable growth even after cod and a good quater of new releases added to the service( age of mythology, ms flight simulator 24, Indiana Jones, etc)?

It isn't 30% growth in revenue. 30% growth in PC Game Pass subscribers. Gaming revenue fell 7%.

We don't know how much growth in revenue came from the price increase.

 

[Sebastian1295]

Single digit growth in any sector of your business is horrific and should sound the panic alarm. If phil spencer worked for nintendo or sony his ass would've been gone as soon as he proposed gamepass as a business model to his superiors.

 

[ProtoByte]

The PC Gamepass numbers made up 1/6 of overall Gamepass correct? 30% is nothing really. It might be even worse depending on how much of that growth cut into the Xbox Gamepass ultimate subs - ie people who have converted from Xbox to PC and just swapped subscriptions.

The fact that we have to put puzzle pieces together indicates that there's more downside than upside.

 

[Insanemaelstrom]

It isn't 30% growth in revenue. 30% growth in PC Game Pass subscribers. Gaming revenue fell 7%.

We don't know how much growth in revenue came from the price increase.

Yeah, you are correct. I misread the article and quote.

That's a pretty good growth rate and close to the 40% growth that they wanted.

 

[Moriarty1889]

MS are the masters of spinning numbers and hiding facts.

 

[Generic]

Single digit growth in any sector of your business is horrific and should sound the panic alarm. If phil spencer worked for nintendo or sony his ass would've been gone as soon as he proposed gamepass as a business model to his superiors.

Gamepass is pro-consumer.

 

[SteadyEvo]

As long as they stay in the game and console business another 1 or 2 gens I'm good. And keep gamepass around. They've stuck it out this long. Hopefully better days are coming for gamers and those on the business side.

 

[havoc00]

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Bold cherry picking not supported by MS’ own numbers and forecasts. Also no GP numbers update and CoD sales numbers. Tells you everything, really.

The tradition to spin horrific Xbox numbers into something positive is not even tiring, it’s downright comical at this point.

 

[Jaybe]

The future guidance is embarrassing. In this push for profitability, I expect a couple studios to be close or be allowed to be spun off like Toys For Bob did.

And in Gaming, we expect revenue growth to be in the low-single-digits. We expect Xbox content and services revenue growth to be in the low to mid-single-digits driven by first-party content as well as Xbox Game Pass. Hardware revenue will decline year-over-year.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

No doubt margins up due to hardware sales tanking.

 

[DarkstarRising13]

As long as they stay in the game and console business another 1 or 2 gens I'm good. And keep gamepass around. They've stuck it out this long. Hopefully better days are coming for gamers and those on the business side.

Game Pass is a disgusting parasite that should have never existed. This so-called "pro-consumer" service has been an absolute disaster. Look no further than Hi-Fi Rush. Shadow dropped back at the beginning of 2023 to critical acclaim - a year later, the studio that made it was nearly shut down because, despite high praise and high player count on Game Pass, it was not profitable in the eyes of Microsoft and Korean studio PUBG Krafton saved the studio at the last minute along with the Hi-Fi Rush IP.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Game Pass is a disgusting parasite that should have never existed. This so-called "pro-consumer" service has been an absolute disaster. Look no further than Hi-Fi Rush. Shadow dropped back at the beginning of 2023 to critical acclaim - a year later, the studio that made it was nearly shut down because, despite high praise and high player count on Game Pass, it was not profitable in the eyes of Microsoft and Korean studio PUBG Krafton saved the studio at the last minute along with the Hi-Fi Rush IP.

Totally pro consumer.

This summer will be my second three-year stint in GP ultimate promo. I always buy annual gold so in total I paid an extra $20 total for GP for 6 years coverage.

How anyone can call that anti-consumer is insane.

Heck, I even played MLB The Show on GP. Didnt pay an extra dime.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I doubt GP subs are anywhere near 40M.

It's a dead end.

 

[Topher]

I doubt GP subs are anywhere near 40M.

It's a dead end.

Where is 40M coming from? I haven't seen that.

 

[Alebrije]

Playstation is a beast.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Where is 40M coming from? I haven't seen that.

I've seen it being mentioned here a while ago:

People acting surprised that everyone on xbox ended up going and subscribing to gamepass? What the fuck is going on in this thread.

The entire point of this purchase was to drive gamepass growth.

Microsoft subscription services is where they make their money, they want 40-50 million players paying $20 a month in the long term goal.

People acting surprised Xbox physical sales collapsed is bizarre take

 

[Topher]

I've seen it being mentioned here a while ago:

Hard to see that happening.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Where is 40M coming from? I haven't seen that.

Same. Last time i checked it was 100m by 2027 which is clearly delulu at this point.

 

[adamsapple]

Game Pass set new quarterly record for revenue​

Hope all my friends from the other thread are happy.

 

[MacReady13]

Game Pass is a disgusting parasite that should have never existed. This so-called "pro-consumer" service has been an absolute disaster. Look no further than Hi-Fi Rush. Shadow dropped back at the beginning of 2023 to critical acclaim - a year later, the studio that made it was nearly shut down because, despite high praise and high player count on Game Pass, it was not profitable in the eyes of Microsoft and Korean studio PUBG Krafton saved the studio at the last minute along with the Hi-Fi Rush IP.

Excellent take. People saying it’s pro consumer when a fantastic game like Hi FinRush comes out only to have the studio shut down (thankfully saved) is a disgrace. It doesn’t make money. If not for PlayStation, Nintendo (to a lesser extent) and Steam SELLING games, Xbox would be gone. It’s as simple as that. And anyone trying to push this model as the way forward is a disgrace.

Let’s be honest- we all know why Microsoft went down the Gamepass route. They wanted this model to stick and become the norm. NO other company has the money (in gaming) that Microsoft have. They can lose money on Gamepass but Sony and Nintendo can’t. Sony was ready to go down this route. If they had continued, they seriously might not have survived trying to out spend Microsoft. Sony stopped with the day and date model whereas Microsoft continued. Sony releases games on PC only and very rarely on Nintendo and they’re reaping the rewards. Microsoft is trying their best to SELL games everywhere and with that Gamepass noose around their neck, they’re struggling. Imagine having one of the most popular games today in COD being on Gamepass day and date and STILL not moving the needle for their rental service?! What an utter failure. Phil Spencer somehow remains in his job and his idiot bosses still allow this farcical business model to continue.

Xbox needs 2 things- sales of games (and consoles) and exclusives to REMAIN exclusives! Phil, stop with this bullshit of trying to tell us that games are better when they’re everywhere. It’s fucking crap. Super Mario World wouldn’t have been a better game releasing on the SNES and the Mega Drive/Genesis! Yet he’s trying to peddle this bullshit!

And now, after having a strong showing at this developer direct or whatever they call it, you’d have been so much better making it console exclusive for Doom and all those other games and keeping them off Gamepass FORCING sales! It would’ve also forced people who want those games to buy a Xbox console to buy those games! Instead, those Xbox idiots allow these games to remain on Gamepass day 1 AND, minus 1 game, they’re all on Steam and PS5! Why would ANYONE buy an Xbox console today? I mean, Phil still does want consoles to sell, doesn’t he? Surely through sales of consoles that means you get sales of games (no matter how small those sales are on Xbox consoles).

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Same. Last time i checked it was 100m by 2027 which is clearly delulu at this point.

100M at any point in time is delulu.

There's a reason Sony never really pushed PS Now.

 

[adamsapple]

Excellent take.

Nope, GP is the most pro-consumer thing in the gaming market right now, well second only to Epic's free weekly game(s) I guess.

How anyone can call that anti-consumer is insane.

My guess is the majority of folks who say that are those without a platform to access it.

 

[MacReady13]

Nope, GP is the most pro-consumer thing in the gaming market right now, well second only to Epic's free weekly game(s) I guess.

Cool. So considering it’s on everything that is an Xbox (and everything now is an Xbox) I’m certain that with the low cost of entry that close to if it over 100 million happy customers have subscribed to good guy Microsofts pro consumer rental service! A real positive for the future of gaming- let’s own nothing and be happy!

 

[adamsapple]

A real positive for the future of gaming- let’s own nothing and be happy!

You're living in an age where purchased content licenses can be revoked in a second at the publisher's whim, lol.

Don't get so worked up over the idea of how subscription services have always worked.

 

[MacReady13]

You're living in an age where purchased content licenses can be revoked in a second at the publisher's whim, lol.

Don't get so worked up over the idea of how subscription services have always worked.

I get worked up cause this model is not good for the creatives. It’s completely fucked the music industry. It’s doing the same with the movie industry and now it’s happening in gaming. The more people push this shit the quicker we head into a future full of renting stuff without ever owning.

And yes, I get the digital talk of not owning what you pay for. But it is sadly the lesser of 2 evils. I’m a physical buyer myself so I will keep that going for as long as I can but I will never support a subscription model as the main way to watch films, listen to music or play my games. Call me old school but that’s how I am. In fact, listen to Quentin Tarantino’s talk yesterday on the way movies are today with streaming services. Not great to hear from a maestro who knows his shit.

 

[Brucey]

Game Pass set new quarterly record for revenue​

Hope all my friends from the other thread are happy.

What was the price increase for Game Pass?

 

[Mattyp]

I've seen it being mentioned here a while ago:

Microsoft confirmed it was 34m last feb, it’s now grown 30% on pc just in this quarter alone excluding LAST YEARS growth.

They’ll reach 40m subscribers.

The question is how many of the 34m do we think is PC a year ago? If it’s 10m that’s a growth of 3m alone this quarter.


I also should have screen capped the people saying Indiana wouldn’t have had more players then Astro lol.

 

[Brucey]

You're living in an age where purchased content licenses can be revoked in a second at the publisher's whim, lol.

Don't get so worked up over the idea of how subscription services have always worked.

And that's why millions continue to buy physical media and consoles with disk drive options.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

I get worked up cause this model is not good for the creatives. It’s completely fucked the music industry. It’s doing the same with the movie industry and now it’s happening in gaming. The more people push this shit the quicker we head into a future full of renting stuff without ever owning.

And yes, I get the digital talk of not owning what you pay for. But it is sadly the lesser of 2 evils. I’m a physical buyer myself so I will keep that going for as long as I can but I will never support a subscription model as the main way to watch films, listen to music or play my games. Call me old school but that’s how I am. In fact, listen to Quentin Tarantino’s talk yesterday on the way movies are today with streaming services. Not great to hear from a maestro who knows his shit.

Movies are sucking now because studios still haven’t adapted away from their old strategy of spending hundreds of millions making shallow action movies and remakes. Most of the good stuff is original content made by these streaming providers.

Games are struggling because of horrible management ballooning budgets with nonsense and releasing broken games with shit monetization. Indies and smaller studios are the ones releasing the good shit, similar to the movie industry.

For every Matt Damon or QT shitting on how the industry works now, you’ll have a Tom Hanks or someone saying people just need to adapt. Times change. One day soon, you won’t be a physical buyer anymore because it won’t exist. It won’t be because of subscription service it’ll be because of convenience and technology.

 

[adamsapple]

Game Pass set new quarterly record for revenue​

What was the price increase for Game Pass?

You can see the price changes here.

This was 6 months ago, 2 quarters with the increased price yet still setting records. If you're going to say this record in revenue is just because of the price hike, it isn't.

And that's why millions continue to buy physical media and consoles with disk drive options.

Sure.

But the rate of physical media spending is the lowest it's been in the last 24 years and only getting lower, so you might want to get the physical media you want now before it goes the way of the dodo.

 

[Brucey]

Microsoft confirmed it was 34m last feb, it’s now grown 30% on pc just in this quarter alone excluding LAST YEARS growth.

They’ll reach 40m subscribers.

The question is how many of the 34m do we think is PC a year ago? If it’s 10m that’s a growth of 3m alone this quarter.


I also should have screen capped the people saying Indiana wouldn’t have had more players then Astro lol.

"According to a report by Omdia Games, a market analysis group, subscribers to PC Game Pass currently account for only one-sixth of Microsoft’s total Game Pass users. The study, conducted late last year, considered all tiers of Game Pass, including Core, which is an updated version of the old Live Gold subscription. This tier includes access to multiplayer and a limited catalog of games. Despite the modest numbers on PC, Omdia Games believes this platform has significant potential and represents a major growth opportunity for Xbox. The recent inclusion of high-profile titles like Call of Duty: Black Ops 6 is expected to enhance its appeal."

PC Game Pass Accounts for Only One-Sixth of Microsoft’s Total Subscribers

According to a report by Omdia Games, a market analysis group, subscribers to PC Game Pass currently account for only one-sixth of Microsoft’s total Game Pass users. The study…

www.eteknix.com

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Microsoft confirmed it was 34m last feb, it’s now grown 30% on pc just in this quarter alone excluding LAST YEARS growth.

They’ll reach 40m subscribers.

The question is how many of the 34m do we think is PC a year ago? If it’s 10m that’s a growth of 3m alone this quarter.

I'd like to see the numbers by the end of next month then.

I also should have screen capped the people saying Indiana wouldn’t have had more players then Astro lol.

Oh, I might have been one of those people, but that would've been in reference to PS5 sales.

I expected Indy to do much better than 4M, even though I think it's looks mediocre.
Expected 10M at least on Xbox and PC.

Edit:

In fact, if GP really is ~40M, Indy performance is even worse than I thought it'd be at ~30M.

 

[adamsapple]

"According to a report by Omdia Games, a market analysis group, subscribers to PC Game Pass currently account for only one-sixth of Microsoft’s total Game Pass users. The study, conducted late last year, considered all tiers of Game Pass, including Core, which is an updated version of the old Live Gold subscription. This tier includes access to multiplayer and a limited catalog of games. Despite the modest numbers on PC, Omdia Games believes this platform has significant potential and represents a major growth opportunity for Xbox. The recent inclusion of high-profile titles like Call of Duty: Black Ops 6 is expected to enhance its appeal."

PC Game Pass Accounts for Only One-Sixth of Microsoft’s Total Subscribers

According to a report by Omdia Games, a market analysis group, subscribers to PC Game Pass currently account for only one-sixth of Microsoft’s total Game Pass users. The study…

www.eteknix.com

Napkin math time.

1/6th of 34m (last reported) = ~ 5.7m
30% of 5.7m = 1.7m

So in just one quarter, GamePass gained 1.7m subscribers on PC alone. Now whether some of them were new and/or converts from other tiers, we don't know.

But by itself, 1.7m new subscribers in one quarter sounds pretty a'ight

 

[Mattyp]

I'd like to see the numbers by the end of next month then.

Oh, I might have been one of those people, but that would've been in reference to PS5 sales.

I expected Indy to do much better than 4M, even though I think it's looks mediocre.
Expected 10M at least on Xbox and PC.

Edit:

In fact, if GP really is ~40M, Indy performance is even worse than I thought it'd be at ~30M.

I think we’ll get the announcement when they hit that round number of 40 million personally. That would be them generating $600m per month from gamepass subs.

I don’t know why people are downplaying Indy when 1 in 6 people are playing it in a single month with the huge CoD drop as well. It will soon reach 5 million players and that’s somehow a bad game now? Throw a few more million on PS5 as well and that makes for great numbers on any SP title.

Yet Astro Sonys only first party title this year and apparently GOAT of GOAT has an attachment of what 1 in 35?

 

[Brucey]

You can see the price changes here.

This was 6 months ago, 2 quarters with the increased price yet still setting records. If you're going to say this record in revenue is just because of the price hike, it isn't.



Sure.

But the rate of physical media spending is the lowest it's been in the last 24 years and only getting lower, so you might want to get the physical media you want now before it goes the way of the dodo.

So 20% increase in price for pc gamepass, a little less for xbox. And COD and then Indy on the content front. I would think 20% increasing revenue would be bare minimum? I guess we don't know how MS count an Xbox ultimate gp member who "downgrades" to PC gamepass in terms of accounting

The full quote is interesting:
"All-up, Game Pass set a new quarterly record for revenue and grew its PC subscriber base by over 30%, as we focus on driving fully-paid subscribers across endpoints."

Seems to be alluding to easing back on the $1 gamepass promos etc that may have boosted subscriber numbers at least temporarily, versus getting people to pay full list price.

 

[ProtoByte]

Microsoft confirmed it was 34m last feb, it’s now grown 30% on pc just in this quarter alone excluding LAST YEARS growth.

They’ll reach 40m subscribers.

The question is how many of the 34m do we think is PC a year ago? If it’s 10m that’s a growth of 3m alone this quarter.


I also should have screen capped the people saying Indiana wouldn’t have had more players then Astro lol.

Napkin math time.

1/6th of 34m (last reported) = ~ 5.7m
30% of 5.7m = 1.7m

So in just one quarter, GamePass gained 1.7m subscribers on PC alone. Now whether some of them were new and/or converts from other tiers, we don't know.

But by itself, 1.7m new subscribers in one quarter sounds pretty a'ight

Both of you guys are assuming that the Gamepass numbers haven't fluctuated since they announced that number early last year. You're also not taking into account that XBL Gold Gamepass Core is included in those numbers, meaning that one can downgrade from the higher tiers to that, and still be counted as a subscriber. You're also not accounting for the possibility that at least some of this PC growth has come at the direct expense of the Xbox subscribers - ie, people who have converted to PC and dropped their Xbox subscription for the PC version.

The fact that Microsoft is touting a pretty arbitrary figure with this 30% increase on what used to be less than 17% of their subscribers after increasing prices by at least 16% and still managing to come up at 2% content-services growth indicates that there is massive churn and tier downgrading going on.

 

[SweetTooth]

Transitioning to 3rd party in full effect

 

[Brucey]

I'd like to see the numbers by the end of next month then.

Oh, I might have been one of those people, but that would've been in reference to PS5 sales.

I expected Indy to do much better than 4M, even though I think it's looks mediocre.
Expected 10M at least on Xbox and PC.

Edit:

In fact, if GP really is ~40M, Indy performance is even worse than I thought it'd be at ~30M.

Not every gamepass member has access to cod and indy tho? The old "core" members and the ones in the recent tier where they don't get day 1 games?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I think we’ll get the announcement when they hit that round number of 40 million personally. That would be them generating $600m per month from gamepass subs.

We'll see. But like I said, at ~40M subs Indy performance will look very bad and it wouldn't be amazing in any way, esepcially since there seems to be little growth on Xbox consoles despite COD.

I don’t know why people are downplaying Indy when 1 in 6 people are playing it in a single month with the huge CoD drop as well. It will soon reach 5 million players and that’s somehow a bad game now? Throw a few more million on PS5 as well and that makes for great numbers on any SP title.

Yet Astro Sonys only first party title this year and apparently GOAT of GOAT has an attachment of what 1 in 35?

You forgot about Helldivers 2, which sold at least 12+M in the first three months.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Not every gamepass member has access to cod and indy tho? The old "core" members and the ones in the recent tier where they don't get day 1 games?

Instand corrected. Then it's slightly less underwhelming.

 

[Mattyp]

Both of you guys are assuming that the Gamepass numbers haven't fluctuated since they announced that number early last year.

Every quarter since then has seen Gamepass subscription growth Microsoft always report that.

 

[adamsapple]

Seems to be alluding to easing back on the $1 gamepass promos etc that may have boosted subscriber numbers at least temporarily, versus getting people to pay full list price.

The GPU trial was removed in October and as of right now only the Standard tier has the trial, and that tier does not get day 1 games like PC or Ultimate do.

Both of you guys are assuming that the Gamepass numbers haven't fluctuated since they announced that number early last year. You're also not taking into account that XBL Gold Gamepass Core is included in those numbers, meaning that one can downgrade from the higher tiers to that, and still be counted as a subscriber. You're also not accounting for the possibility that at least some of this PC growth has come at the direct expense of the Xbox subscribers - ie, people who have converted to PC and dropped their Xbox subscription for the PC version.

My post literally said we don't know if any/some of these are converts from other tiers. Also, Core has been included in GP for a while now, I think its long enough removed that we can start acknowledging it as a part of GP without caveats.

And finally, yes we cannot account for fluctuations. But fluctuations can be both positive or negative. Game Pass saw a record number of new subscriptions at the time of CoD's release, and keep in mind this is when there was no $1 trial.

And like Mattyp has said, look up their recent quarterly earnings, the one constant is that game pass is always noted as off-setting drops in the other gaming revenue.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Game Pass is a disgusting parasite that should have never existed. This so-called "pro-consumer" service has been an absolute disaster. Look no further than Hi-Fi Rush. Shadow dropped back at the beginning of 2023 to critical acclaim - a year later, the studio that made it was nearly shut down because, despite high praise and high player count on Game Pass, it was not profitable in the eyes of Microsoft and Korean studio PUBG Krafton saved the studio at the last minute along with the Hi-Fi Rush IP.

Saying game pass isn't pro consumer is one of the furthest reaches ive seen.

Now let's flip your statement. Just out of a fun exercise, because I also like to buy games I really like. These are growing rarer and rarer but there's still a few like gt7 and astro bot.


Now flip your statement to trying to sell games to consumers when the game is concord and the studio didn't even last 12 months.

Studios closing isn't down to gamepass or subscription services but here you have believed it is the reason that tango shut down. The reality is they made a great game but it didn't perform as well as it needed too. To make it clear I double dipped on hi fi rush, buying for both xbox and steam. Being purchase only may not have saved the studio.

What was the issue with concord? And how shit is sonys business plan if they can sink 400 million into a title, create animated shorts and more but still close the studio?

 

[Brucey]

Instand corrected. Then it's slightly less underwhelming.

Ultimately the number means nothing just Microsoft doing it's usually thing obfuscating revenue and income by combining disparate business units together for financial reporting. Standard smoke and mirrors.