Support NeoGAF

[chonga]

"According to a newly published Xbox slide deck from the FTC v Microsoft federal case, Xbox Game Pass generated an average of $9.26 per subscription

Xbox Game Pass made $230 million revenue in one month, most users pay for full subscriptions

Microsoft reveals a rare look at concrete Xbox Game Pass earnings, with the subscription breaking $230 million in subscriber revenues in a month's time.

www.tweaktown.com

If you convert from Gold then whatever you paid for Gold is included in that figure.

In other words you wouldn't contribute $1 / sub term towards the average, you'd contribute $6, or whatever you previously paid for Gold.

And this is often where people go wrong on GP calculations. You can't wave it about as if that's all there to be spent on the catalog. It includes huge sums of revenue that existed before.

The second is like the article does, which is state $230m revenue in a month from GP. It just multiplies the $9.26 by 25 million. But this assumes the sub revenue is a monthly figure, which it most likely is, but it also assumes that the subscriber figures we get are either 'as at end of quarter' or peak figures. If they're total unique users across the three months then you can't do that calculation. If that isn't clear, let's use an unrealistic scenario. If 5 million users subscribe for a month and then they all cancel, then a different set of 5 million subscribe the month 2 and they all cancel, followed by another different set of 5 million users in month 3 it wouldn't be uncommon for that to be reported as '15 million users in Quarter x', but you only ever had 5 million at a time. So we can't just say 15m x $x monthly sub = monthly revenue.

 

[Varteras]

How I came into this thread with the naive hope of productive discussion

How I'm leaving it

 

[ManaByte]

Yeah, it's weird what people try to pull here. So I just start ignoring, my ignore list is growing by the day.

 

[Trekinspace88]

If Sonys service is so meaningful they should make multiplayer free.

I agree Sony should make Multiplayer free but MS should make it free too. It's not fair to us gamers to have to pay for multiplayer.

 

[adamsapple]

How I came into this thread with the naive hope of productive discussion

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Aren’t there alot more Playstation consoles out there than XBOX consoles which would likely lead to more subscriptions? Also, I think Sony has more leverage with profit and subscription services because they sell many more games than XBOX so it balances out better. Microsoft is heavily reliant on Gamepass which is most likely contributing to even less games being sold especially first party games which come to Gamepass day one, but that’s another subject. I think it actually does devalue games, but it can be a big selling point as well for Microsoft’s subscription service.

Yes, Jim has some interesting points, but from what I’ve heard and seen, I don’t think Sony has the better subscription service by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Oh so now you're trying to start a witch hunt claiming I'm paid by MS? What the fuck is going on with this place.

Are you a journalist?

 

[Warablo]

Everyone says Jim Ryan has been doing good when really he's just riding the coat tails of the ones before him while making profit saving moves. I don't really get it.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Everyone says Jim Ryan has been doing good when really he's just riding the coat tails of the ones before him while making profit saving moves. I don't really get it.

Well he did help make playstation successful. Plus he helped ensure the success of the PS5. He certainly deserves some credit. Its not like he didn't do anything.

 

[tmlDan]

I agree Sony should make Multiplayer free but MS should make it free too. It's not fair to us gamers to have to pay for multiplayer.

You need to stop saying you pay for multiplayer, free to play games don't require it. What you're paying for is the service, updates to the system, free monthly games, tournaments, online store, servers etc.

That's why they're, generally, ad free (or they're VERY light in ads). Would you be okay if it was free but every time you played COD online every 15 min they interrupted the game and made you watch 4-5 :30s ads? Even Amazon Prime is adding commercials....every website is riddled with ads plus you pay for internet, nothings free.

 

[Topher]

Everyone says Jim Ryan has been doing good

Everyone?

 

[X-Wing]

Aren’t there alot more Playstation consoles out there than XBOX consoles which would likely lead to more subscriptions? Also, I think Sony has more leverage with profit and subscription services because they sell many more games than XBOX so it balances out better. Microsoft is heavily relying on Gamepass which is most likely contributing to even less games being sold especially first party games which come to Gamepass day one. I think it actually does devalue games.

Yes, Jim has some interesting points, but from what I’ve heard and seen, I don’t think Sony has the better subscription service by any stretch of the imagination.

Game Pass is available on more platforms though.

 

[X-Wing]

Everyone says Jim Ryan has been doing good when really he's just riding the coat tails of the ones before him while making profit saving moves. I don't really get it.

That's an ignorant take. Jim has been at PlayStation for a long time, he helped build the success of the platform before he was a CEO.

Ryan began working for Sony Interactive Entertainment Europe (SIEE) in 1994, the year before the first PlayStation console launched. In his first year at the job, Ryan helped establish Sony's presence in Europe by finding offices and hiring staff.
Since joining in 1994, Ryan has held several senior positions at Sony Interactive Entertainment in both its American and European branches. On August 16, 2011, Ryan was named president and CEO of SIEE.Prior to that, he was SIEE's executive vice president and co-chief operating officer (COO). In April 2016, Ryan was appointed head of global sales and marketing of SIE. On January 16, 2018, Ryan was named deputy president of SIE, effective immediately, while still retaining his positions as SIE's head of global sales and marketing and SIEE's president. On February 11, 2019, Ryan was named president and CEO of SIE, effective on April 1 of that year.

Jim Ryan - Wiki

Jim Ryan is the president and CEO of Sony Interactive Entertainment (SIE), a subsidiary of Sony.

golden.com

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Game Pass is available on more platforms though.

Ah, that’s true. I forgot about PC.

 

[Generic]

Because the first party games aren't there and there are no guarantees they ever will. This is also the only difference between Game Pass and Plus, since when it comes to third party games a lot of games are available in both services or regularly jump from one to another.
People overstate the value of Game Pass and downplay Plus' value because of the first party titles but those have so far been scarce and regularly disappointing (imho) on the Game Pass side.
In the end, both services offer great value since a subscription of less than 20 euros/month gives you access to a LOT of games, if those games are worth it or not is 100% dependent on your personal taste.

"Because the first party games aren't there and there are no guarantees they ever will"

Which is the biggest problem of PS+. Sony even removed Syphon Filter 1 from the catalog for god's sake.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

gamepass sucks and devalues games, sony needs to focus on non subscriptions.

That's basically what Jim Ryan is saying.
It's like most people read "subscription service", had a knee-jerk reaction and ignored everything after that.

Jim Ryan makes a lot of sense and it's clear that their approach is what makes Playstation successful. The fact that PS5 is casting a giant shadow over Series S/X is proof it their strategy working.

As for subscription services, they all suck.
If Sony didn't shoe-horn multiplayer into Plus, I and many others probably wouldn't even have subscribed to Plus.

Like "Like a Dragon" games, more and more Atlus games (P3/4/5 and soon Tactica and the remake of P3)... This Jim guy should know they have 50M subs because there are 170M PS4/5 out there. There's like what ? 80M of Xbox ? Normal they "just" have 25M subs.

This is exactly the problem MS is facing though: Series S/X sell like shit.
That's why GamePass is stagnating.

In fact it is better because since before this month, you just needed Xbox Live to play online, not GPU (or GP Core), so all those GPU subs were from the people who subbed for the service GP, not for the online only. While on the 50M of PS+ subbers I guess at least half of the subs are from people who just buy the "cheapest" PS+, just to play online. At least it is what I see around me.

Fair point, but it does pull people into the Playstation-ecosystem, which is more than enough.
That's another issue that MS is facing, one that Phil Spencer adressed as part of the reason why it isn't a matter of 'just releasing good games' for them.

 

[Generic]

Thats because a quality game like that should be sold, not rented. Its good enough to stand as its own as it doesnt need to be proped up by a subcription service. The game is only 19.99$ on PSN.

Nope, a Sony game should be on Sony's gaming service. They already don't release day-1 games because muh sales, but there no excuse for a 3 years old title.

 

[drotahorror]

Well he did help make playstation successful. Plus he helped ensure the success of the PS5. He certainly deserves some credit. Its not like he didn't do anything.

Kind of sucks when you have a midrange pc from 2016. The ps5 is a glorified paperweight. I appreciate Sony putting out exclusives on pc now though. Demons Souls is basically the only reason for my ps5.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Kind of sucks when you have a midrange pc from 2016. The ps5 is a glorified paperweight. I appreciate Sony putting out exclusives on pc now though. Demons Souls is basically the only reason for my ps5.

I mean I still manage to put disks into my PS5 and I'm able to play them.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

 

[Moriarty1889]

What a bloody idiot! Piss off Jim! He raised the prices of PSN by quite a bit and then says this stupid shite. Jim is the gift that keeps on giving. Game pass is a much better deal than his overpriced offerings. Wish Shawn Layden or Andrew House would come back and replace Mister Ryan.

 

[Moriarty1889]

Wow, Sony has completely lost the plot. They need to get rid of Jim before he drives PS into te ground.

Agreed my friend yet there are many defenders of Mister Ryan because of how much the PS5 is selling. He is the reason their exclusives are going to PC and also why Sony is wasting time and resources with ten live service games that no one asked for.

 

[Sanepar]

Wow, Sony has completely lost the plot. They need to get rid of Jim before he drives PS into te ground.

Well until now the data. Every month and year ps5 selling more and more in every country. Xbox selling less and less every month everywhere. So your point doesn't make sense.

 

[Clear]

Some of the comments here are hilarious.

Like him or not Ryan is doing a tremendous job, while Spencer is just burning money and getting effectively nowhere.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Microsoft isn’t getting ANYWHERE near the scale to justify what they are doing with GamePass. You need to have mass casual appeal and be selling loads of subs to people who WERNT spending money on a lot of software before.

Instead as MS loves to tell you “GamePass subscribers spend more money than others” which is a really backwards ass brag. It means your top customers are the ones you attracted to the service and if they were spending MORE than before GamePass they would have said as much.

Instead it’s all smoke and mirrors bragging while behind the scenes we know MS is incredibly nervous about their GP numbers.

The writing was on the wall though; for years it’s been evident MS thought xCloud would attract millions of mobile gamers and it’s such a colossal fucking flop for them because it hasn’t lol

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

gamepass sucks and devalues games, sony needs to focus on non subscriptions.

Define “de-valuing” games and how that negatively impacts your experience as a consumer.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

One could argue surface or zune offered better or equal value than the competition, yet they faded into obscurity.

Xbox just feels so irrelevant in the public eye. Even people I know who had 360 always just kinda talk about it in a past tense. I know it's still selling but the fact that even at $300 it's selling under what One did a this point in the lifecycle is really telling

 

[zedinen]

Everyone says Jim Ryan has been doing good when really he's just riding the coat tails of the ones before him while making profit saving moves. I don't really get it.

Ignorance is a bliss


PS3 bombed hard in America and Japan, and yet outsold the Wii in the PAL region

PS4 bombed hard in Japan, barely outsold XBO in America, sold as much as the PS2 in the PAL region

PS5 is outselling X/S by 2:1 in America; Sony is on track track to post its best year in Japan since 2004

What a bloody idiot! Piss off Jim! He raised the prices of PSN by quite a bit and then says this stupid shite. Jim is the gift that keeps on giving. Game pass is a much better deal than his overpriced offerings. Wish Shawn Layden or Andrew House would come back and replace Mister Ryan.

"The best deal in gaming" is stagnating. I wonder why ?

Premium and Extra grew a lot

 

[Famipan]

Exactly! We need a PS Plus Basic tier with only online gameplay and save data online sync/backup.
If it were 2-5 USD/month a lot more people would subscribe and forget the sub cost but still spend money on digital game purchases….

..,which gives Sony more revenue than physical games which devaluate the revenue with endless re-sells on FB Marketplace, which has Sony necessiting taking more money for digital games.

Do the opposite and take 99 USD for physical and 49 USD for digital games, please!

 

[Bernardougf]

Keep cheering for the trojan horse ...

 

[Clintizzle]

Delusion: The thread.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

Just my opinion but, I prefer PS+ over GP, and I think that is because I love PS exclusives over MS. I rather get forbidden west late then Starfield day one.

 

[Del_X]

People agreeing it’s value destructive like they’re directly betting their retirement on Sony stock.

It’s value destructive to publishers but then again Ubisoft and EA have launched their own premium subscription services.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Office didn’t release yearly and people did not upgrade fast enough that why they moved to subscription.
But writing facts it’s too much for shill….I mean undercover PR team for MS in this forum

How did your mind go there

ManaByte an undercover PR team for Microsoft?

 

[ManaByte]

How did your mind go there

ManaByte an undercover PR team?

 

[Liamario]

Hey, Jim. PISS OFF.

I have both and Game pass is so much better.

No doubt it is for the consumer. I think he was more suggesting that it's not so good for the publisher.

 

[belteshazzar]

I find this hilarious seeing I canceled my ps plus subscription for the first time since like 2013 when I got my ps4

 

[Fishels]

Do you care about the companies value more than your consumer rights/values? These companies are not your friends. But one of them is a lot more consumer friendly than other. Pick your poison. I personally don't care if it devalues or values the company more. I care about how subscribeling to a services benefits me, not anyone else.

I care about being an educated consumer and knowing that if I pay less and get all first party games for free the quality of said games is going to go down. At least in budget. Just a reality

 

[ByWatterson]

Xbox’s biggest mistake is putting all their first party titles on Gamepass day 1. They’re leaving a TON of money on the table by putting their biggest titles on it at release.

Yep. This creates the problem you describe, as well as an expectation of super high quality that Xbox hasn't delivered regularly in over a decade.

What I mean is that if the only real difference between Gamepass and other services is first party day and date, those things better be BANGERS. Sony has the majority of its last decade of first party titles in PS+ Extra. So the only edge Microsoft has is immediacy.

But the immediacy only matters if the games are both plentiful and good. And they're neither.

 

[Elder Legend]

I care about being an educated consumer and knowing that if I pay less and get all first party games for free the quality of said games is going to go down. At least in budget. Just a reality

High budget game doesn't always means a successful game dude.

 

[Fishels]

High budget game doesn't always means a successful game dude.

No it doesn’t. But you can’t expect to pay 15 a month and get TLOU2 and RDR2 quality games. I prefer paying right out to guarantee that the publisher gets the support and doesn’t cut corners. And it seems a lot of them feel that way.

 

[rofif]

"That has driven them to make the large acquisition. I talked to all the publishers, and they unanimously do not like Game Pass because it is value destructive, not only on an individual title-basis, but also or an industry level."

He's not wrong, it is certainly value destructive for publishers and devs, but it is also the best consumer pro move this industry has seen in a long fucking time.

This is 100% correct and what I’ve been saying for some time now. Gp is devaluing the industry if you put any thought towards it

 

[drotahorror]

I mean I still manage to put disks into my PS5 and I'm able to play them.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

There’s barely any reason for me to put a disc in my ps5. GoT? Demons Souls?

 

[RickMasters]

I agree Sony should make Multiplayer free but MS should make it free too. It's not fair to us gamers to have to pay for multiplayer.

Especially when PC gamers don’t have multiplayer locked behind any kind of paywall. Just seems like an outdated practice in this day and age.

 

[rofif]

Jim Ryan believes a lot.

He at least seems quite honest and direct as opposed to the other guy

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

This is 100% correct and what I’ve been saying for some time now. Gp is devaluing the industry if you put any thought towards it

Owning multiple Xbox consoles and games since they been in the industry (Xbox Live beta tester) and I have avoided GP like the plague.
Live Gold is finished so I have none of there services and will now use the PC and it's Free MP for my Xbox games.

 

[Elder Legend]

No it doesn’t. But you can’t expect to pay 15 a month and get TLOU2 and RDR2 quality games. I prefer paying right out to guarantee that the publisher gets the support and doesn’t cut corners. And it seems a lot of them feel that way.

Of course you can. It's called Elder Scrolls VI, Fable 2, Gears of War 6, State of Decay 3, IO Interactive Fantasy New IP, Fallout 5, indiana Jones, DOOM Year Zero, and more.

Now if those games are not your cup of tea then that's a different story.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Of course you can. It's called Elder Scrolls VI, Fable 2, Gears of War 6, State of Decay 3, IO Interactive Fantasy New IP, Fallout 5, indiana Jones, DOOM Year Zero, and more.

Now if those games are not your cup of tea then that's a different story.

Not even close.

 

[Bojanglez]

He at least seems quite honest and direct as opposed to the other guy

How dare you. He doesn't wear cool game t-shirts under his blazer and have a cryptic game shelf, so he must be shit.

 

[AngelMuffin]

It absolutely is. Plenty of incredible games for Day 1 with subscription including all first party and even some solid 3rd party titles like Lies of P.

He didn’t say it wasn’t good, he’s implying that it isn’t profitable or sustainable at this point.

 

[kiphalfton]

So meaningful, Sony felt the need to increase the price.

I think they both suck for different reasons. GPU doesn't have all that many "bangers" and PS+ Premium was overpriced even before the price bump.

And the sad thing is is both will likely contribute to the decline in physical games sales.