It's partly just the nature of the game. When there are only 5 guys on the court superstars affect the game disproportionately and there are fewer than 10 guys in the league that ultimately matter. But max contract rules also play a huge role. You don't have to choose between paying a LeBron or a Durant their true market value and surrounding them with role players or building a team like the 04 Pistons.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
NBA 2017 Playoffs |OT| WE DID IT
- Thread starter Jarate
- Start date
- Status
Cornbread78
Member
Oh my, what a douche...
I would feel uncomfortable reading Green tweet that as well.
beat
Member
from BBALLBREAKDOWN: Kawhi's footwork includes some travelling. I'll be honest, when I first saw the clips before his commentary, I certainly agreed that they were travelling but I didn't get why these were examples of moves that gained an unfair advantage, until he pointed out how it affects positioning and and angles to attack.
I hope the Celtics make the finals and Olynyk kicks Draymond in the nuts. Might as well earn this reputation.
Green hacking Harden's hurt wrist was probably the most disgusting display this year.
Is that Playgrounds game going to be good? Can't have my heart broken again by a terrible Jam rip off.
Green hacking Harden's hurt wrist was probably the most disgusting display this year.
Is that Playgrounds game going to be good? Can't have my heart broken again by a terrible Jam rip off.
Yes, superstars move the needle and there are markets that just don't attract that kind of talent unless it's homegrown. Combine that with smarter front offices understanding what it takes to contend and not settling for competitive, above .500 teams at the expense of flexibility to build a potentially great one down the road. It's also a young league with an average age of around 26.5, and the seasoned veterans that playoff rosters habitually require are less in demand than prospects on rookie contracts.
This has always been the case no doubt, but when you shrink the number of teams in the top bracket from 5 to 3 to the 2.5 we have now (I'll give .5 to the winner of Spurs/Rockets, and let's be honest, GSW is still the prohibitive favorite), it's hard to get up for these early rounds. The series outcome is pretty much foregone, and also because blowouts between teams that aren't on a similar level aren't fun to watch unless you're a fan.
Need a steady diet of this tonight: https://twitter.com/anthonyVslater/status/861248900895723520
And let Steph eat some too.
And let Steph eat some too.
Too much basketball since the playoffs started to also be watching the TNT crew nightly, I missed out on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IUiQRsCCfA
Completely disagree that you can compare the super teams of recent times to any team in the past other than maybe the 60's Celtics and the 80's Lakers.
The 60's Celtics were dominant in the pre merger era when the league only consisted of 8 teams to 10 teams. They had more talent than anyone. The 80's Lakers had the fortune of having Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Magic Johnson (two top 5 players in the league), but their ages didn't match so when Kareem was in his prime Magic was still developing. By the time Magic hit his apex, Kareem was declining.
The 80's Celtics did not have a huge edge over their competition like LeBron's Heat and Cavs team have had in the East. The Celtics had a bunch of battles with Dr. J and Moses Malone's 76ers teams in the early to mid 80's. Then Boston had to play the Bad Boys in the mid to late 80's. There was almost always 2 dominant teams in the East throughout Bird's Celtics runs. And Bird never played with a top 5 player in the league. McHale was top 10 but not top 5.
Even when the Bulls had two top 5 players (Pippen was a top 5 player from 93 to 96), they never had a great third player. Horace Grant was Chicago's 3rd best player during their first three peat from 91-93, but he never came close to being a top 20 player in the league. Rodman, as good of a rebounder as he was, was older, not as athletic as his Piston days, and was extremely limited offensively. He was a borderline top 25 guy during Chicago's second three peat from 96-98.
Olajuwon's Rockets were not even close to being a super team. Olajuwon was the only all star caliber player on the roster for their back to back championship seasons. The only guy that was even close was Drexler but he was well past his prime by 1995.
The Bad Boys were an extremely deep and versatile team, but outside of Thomas, they didn't have another top 10 player on their roster.
And the Spurs will have three hall of famers but Parker and Ginobili were never top 10 players in the league. Those two will make the Hall because of their durability, consistency, and their contributions to championship teams.
The Heat team when they were formed in the 2010-11 season had literally the top 2 players in the league (LeBron 1, Wade 2), and a top 15 player in Bosh.
The Warriors currently have two top 5 players (KD, Curry) and two more top 15 guys (Thompson, Green).
There have been almost no teams in the history of the NBA that had two top 5 players in the league plus another one or two top 15 guys. The 80's Lakers with Kareem, Magic and Worthy are the only example I can think of from the past 40 years.
I admit I fell off for a long period of time and didn't really follow a full season closely until this season.
Whut, I long for you to come about?
I saw a random stat that this playoff Lebron has a better FG% in the paint than Shaq's best year and better 3FG% than Stephs best year. This is kinda legendary territory.So. I was bored, so I looked up LeBron's stats from his last 11 playoff games...
41 - 16 - 7
41 - 8 - 11
27 - 11 - 11
31 - 6 - 13
25 - 10 - 7
41 - 13 - 12
33 - 10 - 4
35 - 10 - 4
39 - 6 - 4
35 - 8 - 7
35 - 9 - 6
Averages: 34.81ppg - 9.72rpg - 7.81apg
Too lazy to look at FG%, but I assume it's reasonably acceptable.
Hottest take:
I think he's earned this seat, brehs. Confirm/deny?
George Claw M.D.
Member
Dray punched Harden's wrist away because Harden was pinching Dray's gut. It's even shown in the footage.
Such bullshit that both D'antoni and Spoelstra have to share coach of the year award. Spoelstra deserved it. Without Lebron, Wade and Bosh the Heat still had like the best or 2nd best record in the NBA from Jan to March. Other teams lose a big 3 like that and they'll be in rebuild mode for decades. Heat were right there in playoff hunt until Waiters went down.
With or without D'Antoni the Rockets are still one of the best teams in the West. Just like they were before he got there. And Harden is Harden regardless.
With or without D'Antoni the Rockets are still one of the best teams in the West. Just like they were before he got there. And Harden is Harden regardless.
Hyperactivity
Banned
That wasn't COTY, COTY is voted on by the media, that was the COTY award voted upon by the head coaches themselves, it's different
Ninja Scooter
Member
Except they weren't. They were demonstrably better with D'Antoni than they were in previous years. Just handwaving his impact away like that because it doesn't fit your narrative is weak AF. I always find it hard to swallow when people play the "what if" game with one side and not the other when arguing for awards like this.
"With or without Spoelstra the Heat are a non-playoff team in the (weak ass fuck) East."
See how that works?
Ninja Scooter
Member
He'll probably win Assistant of the Year.
What success has D'Antoni brought the Rockets that McHale didn't? They are gonna get bounced out of the semis or conference final the same way they got bounced out under McHale.
Fixed. Lebron has to play at a high level, carry his team, coach his team, and has to help run the front office of the team. He should win COTY, MVP, Finals MVP, GOTY.
Just kidding. Lue does honestly have a pretty tough job. But for coach of the year, I think Spoelstra did an amazing job the second half of this season. Shame the Heat didn't make it to the playoffs. D'Antoni is doing a solid job as well.
That's not how you spell Jeff Hornacek.
Ninja Scooter
Member
They are a much better team, both in terms of record and team statistics (ppg, points per poss, point differential) Harden is also playign the best basketball of his life, yet somehow D'Antoni doesn't get any credit for that? But Spoelstra should be honored for what? Getting off to a shit start and missing the playoffs in an incredibly weak conference?
Without Harden the Rockets don't make the playoffs in the east. Meanwhile without Lebron and Bosh the Heat made the playoffs. And then without Wade, Lebron and Bosh they were right there as the best team in the league for months. The whole point of even having awards like that should be to award coaches for those type of situations. D'Antoni doesn't deserve shit. Rockets are a 50 win team with or without him.
Ninja Scooter
Member
again, this requires your bullshit what ifs to work. You have no idea how the Rockets would be without D'Antoni. Just like we don't know how the Heat would be without Spoelstra. How about judging guys based on what they actually did, not woulda/coulda/shouldas and you have to be either blind or completely void of basketball knowledge to not recognize how different (and better) of a team Houston is under D'Antoni (the way you handwave and dismiss away any possible impact a new coach could have just to fit your narrative is leading me to believe it's the latter).
Ninja Scooter
Member
Pop, Stevens, Pringles in any order are the top 3 for me, with Snyder just on the outside. The Heat were good in the 2nd half, but Spo was there in the first half too, so if you are going to give him credit for their finish, he should take blame for their start.
He's at home! Washing his tights.
Are you going to give Spoelstra all this credit for being "the best team in the league for months"? I suppose he decided to really turn up his coaching for that stretch, yelled "don't let go of the rope" 10 decibels higher, unveiled ancient secret out of bounds plays passed down to him on floppies from Riley? And then woosh! He was done and they were losing games to the Knicks when they were like tied for the 8th.
Anyway, play everyone 42 minutes if that's what it takes, I like Cleveland's resting strategy. Let's see if Klay can get 1 good game against Utah.
Anyway, play everyone 42 minutes if that's what it takes, I like Cleveland's resting strategy. Let's see if Klay can get 1 good game against Utah.
Ninja Scooter
Member
They won more games 2 years ago with McHale than they did this year. So not really getting how you're saying they are a better basketball team record wise. Last year they fired McHale 10 or so games into the season because they got off to a bad start. The teams bad start could be blamed on James Harden coming into the season woefully out of shape.
I don't think Spelstra deserves the award either because it took Justice Winslow getting hurt before he figured out lineups without a complete non shooter are more effective.
Pop deserves the award this year. This Spurs team is one of the weaker ones talent wise that he's had and yet they still won 60+ games.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Why does 2 years ago count but last year doesn't? They are far better than they were last year. My problem in arguments like these is that people attribute certain things to some coaches when it's convenient and dismiss them from others when it's not. Essentially minimizing D'Antoni's impact and asserting they'd be just as good with any other coach, while in the same breath stanning Spoelstra for missing the playoffs and looking like one of the worst teams in the league for the first half of the season seems asinine to me. Anybody making that argument is simply seeing what they want to see.
Because McHale barely got an opportunity to coach the team. Dantoni wouldn't be successful if he got to coach an out of shape Harden for 10 games with no Anderson or Gordon. I like Dantoni, but it's foolish to think a team led by a motivated Harden with shooting is not going to be successful.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I mean, again, you could apply that to any coaching situation. Could any number of coaches sucked in the first half and then gotten better in the 2nd like Spoelstra did?
I don't think too many coaches would have gotten as many wins out of that group of players as Spo. All these candidates did a good job. But there is evidence that a completely difference coach could win 55+ games with the Rockets with a similar, but even weaker roster. I don't think any other coach could have gotten 60+ wins out of this years Spurs.
Crimson_Gold
Member
This
RBelong2Us
Member
Why does LBJ have to send out his condolences publically to every player that's going through personal things? Does this dude really need to make a video for every player that has been going through something ?
He can't just hit them up privately ? Patrick Beverley is apparently a "close friend" but he's making a video and putting it out publicly to wish him well. Why does he need people to like him so much ?
He can't just hit them up privately ? Patrick Beverley is apparently a "close friend" but he's making a video and putting it out publicly to wish him well. Why does he need people to like him so much ?
This is going to come off worse than how I mean it, but D'Antoni is an awesome regular season coach. That being said, I'm not exactly sure why people are getting sucked in again.
What I mean is I don't get why people are surprised by this or that they overachieved. He's got a very good veteran-laden roster, a top 5-ish player, and they're really difficult to prepare for in the regular season. He's got a system and the GM bought in completely and provided perfect players to fit his needs; many other contenders didn't have this luxury. He still didn't prioritize defense which has always been his downfall. It's a regular season award though, so sure he's a contender.
I'd vote for Pop, but I probably would every year so I get it. I am surprised that Stevens isn't mentioned in the top 2-3 candidates most of the time. I would've thought that winning the East would've done that, but it kind of feels like a situation where they will reward him with one 3-4 years after he's earned it.
What I mean is I don't get why people are surprised by this or that they overachieved. He's got a very good veteran-laden roster, a top 5-ish player, and they're really difficult to prepare for in the regular season. He's got a system and the GM bought in completely and provided perfect players to fit his needs; many other contenders didn't have this luxury. He still didn't prioritize defense which has always been his downfall. It's a regular season award though, so sure he's a contender.
I'd vote for Pop, but I probably would every year so I get it. I am surprised that Stevens isn't mentioned in the top 2-3 candidates most of the time. I would've thought that winning the East would've done that, but it kind of feels like a situation where they will reward him with one 3-4 years after he's earned it.
He's been media trained since he was 16, I don't think he can consciously turn off his public persona, even if does come off as a little cringey and fake.
how do you know lebron didn't hit him up privately?
RBelong2Us
Member
Then it's even more cringeworthy putting out a video too.
RBelong2Us
Member
- Status