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[lowlylowlycook]

"Much less" isn't fair: they sell well on the system.

I think Sony has made such a profound effort to capture this market precisely because they could see that it was the next big genre for Western "hardcore" gamers, and they didn't want to lose it.

But frankly, by the time SCEA got there, it was already too late. The kings of the genre had already been crowned, and dethroning them would take a miracle. They threw as much money at the problem as they could, but it simply didn't stick.

This is the reverse of the problem Microsoft ran in to with Forza. Despite pumping good money in to Turn 10, Gran Turismo is clearly still the dominant racing sim.

Please keep in mind that I'm not suggesting that Forza or Killzone or Resistance or PGR aren't good games. I'm suggesting that -- as a genre grows, then matures -- it becomes increasingly difficult to pull customers away from the handful of biggest titles. This is also especially clear with FF/DQ in Japan, with no other JRPG coming particularly close to their sales, despite many quality JRPG releases.

I agree with this, but I think Sony's thinking might have been slightly different. I think they thought that Microsoft depended on the shooter genre and if they could take that away to any significant degree this gen then perhaps they could drive MS out of the console space entirely.

That is, I think Sony was trying to be agressive rather than defensive.

Whether Sony could have been more sucessful in this if the PS3 itself hadn't been crippled by its price is an interesting hypothetical.

 

[DMeisterJ]

Are you really trying to use Killzone 2 as example of strong sales on the PS3?

That game would have sold 2 million first month on the 360, had MS been behind it.

Edit : And what about MGS4? Sold about 750 thousand first month, failed to chart any month after. And that came out in the summer, a period that is typically without any other big releases.

No, I'm not saying that KZ2 sold good, I'm saying that it has had staying power in terms of players minds and not migrating to another game when a new release comes out, and that it did chart for two months, while both games that were mentioned didn't. And I do agree that it and any game that is exclusive to the PS3 would sell more on the 360, such are the things when one console has 2x the userbase of the other one.

MGS4 falls outside of an argument, as I specifically stated games that are social in nature, like multi-player focused FPSes which require the community to keep the interest in the game, and once the community moves on to something else, the game interest drops (See Army of Two, RSV, RSV2, and soon to be Borderlands). And I was comparing that to KZ2 where the community is still active despite all the releases over the last 8 months.

 

[donny2112]

It is time for a wider net to be cast over racing/driving game design.

I think it's probably a case of overshooting your target audience. The ultra-sim nature seems overkill to me as an outsider looking into the racing game scene.

These two systems are very clearly eating each other's lunch.

Do you think it's owners of one console "giving in" and purchasing the other each month? Maybe the Wii as a second console isn't the correct picture this generation. Maybe it's more Wii-only, and then PS3/360 owners buying both. Just random thoughts.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I wish MTV hadn't gone astray with the track packs, Beatles and LEGO so I could smugly say "told ya so".

They didn't actually go "astray" with them. Harmonix did things the correct way.

Where as this year brought us Metallica, Smash Hits, Guitar Hero 5, Van Halen, and Band Hero; Harmonix brought us Beatles and LEGO. (It's a little silly to count track packs when they're simply DLC for those who don't have the ability to download DLC.)

The GH band packs actually aren't even that bad of an idea but a) they're overpriced and b) we already know Van Halen is a half-assed piece of shit, where as Harmonix put effort and heart into Beatles and they put it out in PLACE of Rock Band 3, not alongside it.

Band Hero was really when it got to be too much for me. It should have just been a $40 "Guitar Hero Family Track Pack." Instead they used a poppy family friendly track pack as the game to carry the new instruments rather than GH5. Why? Greed. They wanted to force people to need to get Band Hero to get new instruments in hope that it would become the next GH.

And LEGO Rock Band is what Band Hero SHOULD have been: no bundles annoying retailers by taking up floor space and collecting dust, it's not being priced as a full game (it's $49.99), and it's obviously a family oriented version of the game. You can tell by looking at the box. No one knows what the hell Band Hero is. Consumers just think it's another version of Rock Band.

Harmonix/EA has treated their franchise with respect while Activision has whored their franchise out with a terrible "let's just put out as much as we can" approach.

Looks like Activision woke up to the effects of the ___ Hero milking. Activison plans to reduce music game output in 2010. From reading the article, it looks like we will only get Guitar Hero 6, Band Hero 2 and DJ Hero 2.

Still too much. Band Hero 2 shouldn't exist at all unless it's at least $49.99.

 

[speculawyer]

nm

 

[Y2Kev]

How exactly is demons souls an amazing seller at sub 150k? loweredexpecations.gif?

It's Atlus' biggest first month ever.

 

[Snuggles]

Damn, Demon's Souls got so close, I would have shat a brick if it had managed to break the top 10 for the month, that shit would be bananas.
I'm a little disappointed by the low sales of PS3 Borderlands, it was a good port but it seems no one bothered to buy it (except for me).
Uncharted numbers are good, it could have been better but to be number 1 this time of year is pretty nice. Now give us more content, Naughty Dog, more Co-op prease.

 

[Danthrax]

Looks like Activision woke up to the effects of the ___ Hero milking. Activison plans to reduce music game output in 2010. From reading the article, it looks like we will only get Guitar Hero 6, Band Hero 2 and DJ Hero 2.

"only" :lol

I think they could do with just GH 6 and DJ Hero 2. Even if it's called Guitar Hero, the precedent was set with World Tour to include the other instruments, so they may as well keep doing that. Band Hero sounds like too blatant a ripoff of Rock Band.

 

[elrechazado]

It's Atlus' biggest first month ever.

So is that like the detroit lions winning 2 games in a season then?

 

[shintoki]

So is that like the detroit lions winning 2 games in a season then?

This could work, maybe even be humorous if it was another publisher. But you're crossing sacred ground. Do not troll one of the few companies that actually seem to listen to their fanbase. Even more when they pick up on a product it's originally publisher didn't see fit to bring across and now more can enjoy it.

 

[jay]

How exactly is demons souls an amazing seller at sub 150k? loweredexpecations.gif?

I asked this about a thousand posts ago and got the same explanation about Atlus.

 

[elrechazado]

This could work, maybe even be humorous if it was another publisher. But you're crossing sacred ground. Do not troll one of the few companies that actually seem to listen to their fanbase. Even more when they pick up on a product it's originally publisher didn't see fit to bring across and now more can enjoy it.

Video games, serious bizniss.

Jokes dude, jokes.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Video games, serious bizniss.

Jokes dude, jokes.

it is too late, you are about to be banned

 

[jamesinclair]

And LEGO Rock Band is what Band Hero SHOULD have been: no bundles annoying retailers by taking up floor space and collecting dust, it's not being priced as a full game (it's $49.99), and it's obviously a family oriented version of the game. You can tell by looking at the box. No one knows what the hell Band Hero is. Consumers just think it's another version of Rock Band.

How does this make sense?

Lego RB is directed at kids and families....

But to play it, you need to buy a bundle with music not for kids and family!

 

[elrechazado]

How does this make sense?

Lego RB is directed at kids and families....

But to play it, you need to buy a bundle with music not for kids and family!

Or you know, at families who have kids and also have rock band...like me.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

And I do agree that it and any game that is exclusive to the PS3 would sell more on the 360, such are the things when one console has 2x the userbase of the other one.

Userbase #s mean next to nothing, can we stop pretending they ever have?

 

[charlequin]

I hope they feel dumb. They could have published the game, owned the IP, and turned it into something huge. Now we have to rely on Atlus to keep on bringing it over here, but I guess they really don't have a reason not to.

Errr... what?

The game is a Japanese-developed game contracted for publishing by SoJ. Sony almost certainly owns the IP, and SoJ can in all likelihood do whatever they want with any hypothetical future entries -- license them to Atlus again, give them to SCEA, whatever.

Letting Atlus handle this was really pretty much all upside for SCEA -- let them take the fall if it tanked, still get paid licensing fees if it succeeded, have the potential to take over the franchise on future entries if it blew up big enough.

So did the PS3 version of Borderlands sell poorly for mystical reasons, or were the PS3 owners just buying other games?

This is some really impressively tortured logic. :lol

The PS3 version sold worse because online multiplayer shooters are one of the genres where 360 versions of multiplatform games consistently enjoy a significant lead.

How exactly is demons souls an amazing seller at sub 150k? loweredexpecations.gif?

because a 150k opening (with a reprint of the game coming hot on its heels) is a huge, huge number for the new RPG from ultra-ultra-niche developer From Software?

If you want to pick on people for lowered expectations, the people praising Ratchet and Clank for a crummy 100k debut that improves slightly over a crummier 74k debut for the previous entry are a better target.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

If you want to pick on people for lowered expectations, the people praising Ratchet and Clank for a crummy 100k debut that improves slightly over a crummier 74k debut for the previous entry are a better target.

*terrorist fist jab*

 

[C4Lukins]

Userbase #s mean next to nothing, can we stop pretending they ever have?

Of course userbase numbers are important. There are other factors beyond it to consider, but saying they mean next to nothing is just silly.

 

[THE Caffeinated]

Demon's Soul's sales were probably helped by how starved the PS3 is of JRPGs, the last one on the system was... uh... I'll get back to you on that.

 

[Yoboman]

I asked this about a thousand posts ago and got the same explanation about Atlus.

Little marketing, low expectations for a niche title and the fact it sold everything it shipped in basically is what makes it impressive

 

[AniHawk]

Demon's Soul's sales were probably helped by how starved the PS3 is of JRPGs, the last one on the system was... uh... I'll get back to you on that.

Cross Edge.

 

[patsu]

Demon's Souls sales could be higher had Atlus shipped enough copy in the first place.

 

[AniHawk]

Demon's Souls sales could be higher had Atlus shipped enough copy in the first place.

I don't think you realize just how small a company Atlus is. 150k in a month is so big that it will cover several bombs. There is absolutely no way they could have predicted this level of success.

 

[antiquegamer]

How does this make sense?

Lego RB is directed at kids and families....

But to play it, you need to buy a bundle with music not for kids and family!

You can buy band kits separately but I think it's for people that have RB2 or RB:TB and want to play game with their kids / wife who have no interest in the music in regular RB.

 

[patsu]

I don't think you realize just how small a company Atlus is. 150k in a month is so big that it will cover several bombs. There is absolutely no way they could have predicted this level of success.

Oh I wasn't complaining. Just pointing out teh possibility.

 

[androvsky]

I don't think you realize just how small a company Atlus is. 150k in a month is so big that it will cover several bombs. There is absolutely no way they could have predicted this level of success.

That's true. Plus, I think Atlus is more interested in not printing a bunch of extra copies that they have to buy back later versus showing up on the top 10 NPD; especially since nearly everyone that actually can do something useful with NPD numbers has access to more than that.

Worst of all is Atlus getting a reputation for printing enough copies for everyone that wants one; it'll destroy the initial mad rush for any new game from them that has a chance at being a collector's item.

 

[ZeoVGM]

How does this make sense?

Lego RB is directed at kids and families....

But to play it, you need to buy a bundle with music not for kids and family!

You realize you can use older instruments with it right? And that many people have at LEAST a guitar for their system of choice?

There is no bundle for the game. It's very obvious that they didn't do a bundle because they know plenty of people already own instruments and this game isn't worth trying to sucker people into a new bundle with barely-updated instruments.

You know, like Band Hero tried and failed to do.

 

[charlequin]

Demon's Soul's sales were probably helped by how starved the PS3 is of JRPGs

It was probably boosted by a dearth of good JRPGs on PS3 and to a slightly lesser degree on home consoles in general, combined with the fact that it is pretty much unanimously agreed to be pretty great.

Demon's Souls sales could be higher had Atlus shipped enough copy in the first place.

And now, they'll just be higher next month instead. I doubt there was demand for, say, more than ~25k or so extra copies in that first month and those people will by and large just pick up reprinted copies instead.

 

[Mrbob]

Nice for demons souls!

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

How exactly is demons souls an amazing seller at sub 150k? loweredexpecations.gif?

First of all, it sold over 150,000.

And it's an Atlus published hardcore RPG developed by From Software. Demon's Souls known LTD in Japan is around 135,000, to put things in perspective. These are absolutely fantastic sales.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

I don't think you realize just how small a company Atlus is. 150k in a month is so big that it will cover several bombs. There is absolutely no way they could have predicted this level of success.

What's really great about this for Atlus too is that the game required very little in terms of translation, ect. for them to release it compared to most of their titles, and probably all their RPG releases. So this game probably cost them way less time and money to prepare for market, and it's making them the most money. Nice for them.

.

 

[EXGN]

OK, going off on a tangent here, but could I get some clarification? When we call things JRPGs or WRPGs, does the term refer simply to where the game is made? I've always thought the term was Japanese-style RPG or Western-style RPG, which to me, makes more sense. For example, that one turn based Lord of the Rings RPG is a JRPG, while a game like Demon's Souls would be a WRPG.

People say the PS3 was JRPG starved and that lead to more sales, but the PS3 already has games like Oblivion that play very similarly to Demon's Souls. The PS3 audience is JRPG starved, but I don't think Demon's Souls satisfies that itch at all.

Anyways, this is great news for From. This pretty much grantees a sequel, which was questionable after a slow burning Japanese debut.

 

[grandjedi6]

OK, going off on a tangent here, but could I get some clarification? When we call things JRPGs or WRPGs, does the term refer simply to where the game is made? I've always thought the term was Japanese-style RPG or Western-style RPG, which to me, makes more sense.

Denotatively it refers to where a game was made. Connotatively it can mean either where a game was made or the style of game. Hence why the question frequently leads to intricate discussions with no answers.

 

[Death Dealer]

150k in a month is so big that it will cover several bombs.

Any idea of how much Demon's Souls cost to develop ?
How long did Demon's Souls take to create ? I gather the 150k+ NPD and Japan's LTD earned them a nice profit and virtually assure a sequel game ?

If they reuse the same engine, maybe they could have a sequel out next year, or is that too much to expect from such a small developer ?

I'm a huge DS fan. Bought it day one, but I've never played any other Atlus or From games. Haven't really been into RPGs made in Japan since the early Phantasy Star games. This game has captured my interest in a way that Bethesda and Bioware's latest hasn't. The difficulty and "iron man" rules are enthralling.

 

[Majmun]

Are the Dead Space Extraction numbers in? Or is it untraceable and flopped into oblivion?

 

[jabipun]

Almost 550,000 combined for Borderlands.

Pretty good since it came out end of October, should have a strong November too. Good for you Mr. new I.P.

Demon Souls did well too. Word of mouth should allow it to finish the year strong. Hopefully it can break 300,000.

Brutal Legends, BOMBA. It came out pretty well early/mid of October.

The problem with that game is that I think people expected something different. The demo was pretty misleading. The game itself was short. A lot of people traded it in. It's going to be overlooked come November, and any sales it does get will likely be used game sales.

 

[jabipun]

I'm a huge DS fan. Bought it day one, but I've never played any other Atlus or From games. Haven't really been into RPGs made in Japan since the early Phantasy Star games. This game has captured my interest in a way that Bethesda and Bioware's latest hasn't. The difficulty and "iron man" rules are enthralling.

Bioware's latest?

Anyone with a rough idea of what to expect from Dragon Age: Origins has been very much impressed.

 

[Takao]

how much did TOD end up selling?

Did well enough to be a Greatest Hits title in North America which meant the title cracked 500,000 in North America to meet that criteria.

 

[Ihya]

How PS3 and 360 are competing this year alone. PS3 will have to sell over 377 000 more units than 360 in Nov & Dec to beat it in 2009

 

[MvmntInGrn]

Bioware's latest?

Anyone with a rough idea of what to expect from Dragon Age: Origins has been very much impressed.

Saying one game has captured their interest in a different way doesn't mean they didn't know what to expect from the other game. Also doesn't mean they were unimpressed either (which is what it seems like you are assuming).

 

[speculawyer]

How PS3 and 360 are competing this year alone. PS3 will have to sell over 377 000 more units than 360 in Nov & Dec to beat it in 2009

Bu . . bu . . . bu . . but I saw this:

 

[NeoUltima]

Userbase #s mean next to nothing, can we stop pretending they ever have?

Surely this must be some kind of sarcasm...

 

[Deleted member 30609]

ew, why did someone destroy that chalkboard joke

 

[Zen]

Bu . . bu . . . bu . . but I saw this:
http://i35.tinypic.com/25ilvo9.gif

US Only

 

[bobbytkc]

US Only

PS3 will most assuredly sell more worldwide. It was selling close to 10 times the 360 in Japan last week, and that will surely make up whatever difference in sale in the US, especially since FF13 is launching soon.

 

[Jocchan]

Are the Dead Space Extraction numbers in? Or is it untraceable and flopped into oblivion?

Negative numbers. They counterbalanced the 9k from last month bringing its total sales to zero. If you believe you bought a copy, you didn't.

ew, why did someone destroy that chalkboard joke

The dude was banned.

 

[CadetMahoney]

I don't think you realize just how small a company Atlus is. 150k in a month is so big that it will cover several bombs. There is absolutely no way they could have predicted this level of success.

anyone know what it's budget was tho? Or at least a ballpark figure.

The dude was banned.

The joke was reaching so hard it grabbed him and took him to hell with it. heh.

 

[donny2112]

Also can someone please post the first month GH1 figures?

Edit: Nevermind. Already basically posted.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

The dude was banned.

that's encouraging!

does anyone know what happened to Segata? You can't ban the Duke. That's absurd!