Support NeoGAF

[Jokeropia]

Those DS sales really are insane, it's fucking february. And just WTF is driving those numbers...

->

· Nintendo DS games topped all software sales, with more than 3.6 million units sold.

What are Wii owners buying? Top selling console should have a better showing in the top 10.

->

Consumers purchased nearly 2.9 million software units for Wii.

Man thats amazing. I don't know why it always gets overlooked, but the 360 is honestly killing both the Wii and PS3 in the total package. Absolutely destroying both of them. If you would have told me the 360 would earn more retail dollars than Ps3 and Wii combined 3 years ago I would of thought you were crazy.

Not really, considering it's been on the market almost twice as long. With aligned launches, Wii is tracking well ahead of 360. (Even in revenue despite the lower cost of both games and the system itself.)

Attach ratio higher on Ps3? Damn, those ps3 owners don't buy any games :sarcasm

The attach ratio on almost all multiplatform games last generation was lowest on the PS2. It tends to happen when you have the highest installed base.

I don;t think the Wii will have the legs PS2 does. Simply because, in a few years, PS3/360's are going to be $200 or less, and by that time they'll make the Wii seem like a rip off. Especially when you go by a hardware comparison stand point.

You just don't get it, do you? People don't buy the Wii because the PS3 & 360 are too expensive, they buy the Wii because they want the Wii.

True enough. Maybe Wii is already quite a clear winner this gen in terms of hardware sales, but the competition is still severe in software sales

Worldwide? Hell no. In the US it's still a competition because 360 still leads in installed base.

 

[kswiston]

probably wii > ps2 > 360 > ps3

edit: wouldn't doubt it if the ps2 version was outing wii neither

The PS2 version is still over 1M units ahead of the Wii version which is in second place.

October
PS2: 503k
Wii: 286k

November
PS2: 967k
Wii: 426k

December
PS2: 1.25M
Wii: <610k (didn't chart in top 10)

January
PS2: <130k (didn't chart in top 10)
Wii: 240k

February
PS2: 184k
Wii: 223k

So at best, the LTD for the PS2 version is at 3.03M (give or take a little in Jan) and the Wii version is at 1.78M units (give or take a little in Dec)

 

[WinFonda]

Does there happen to be a singular cup involved in that gif? :lol

Indeed

 

[Karma]

360 holding off the PS3 very well. With the recent price drop the 360 will keep it`s lead for awhile. Not bad.

 

[Barrett2]

Congrats Lost Odyssey.... Go to hell, Wii Play

 

[botticus]

Of course not, that's why he can say unfounded crap. When they do get released simply multiply every PS3 numbers by [360 LTDl/PS3 LTD] to get a normalized sales list.

PS3 sold somewhere in the vicinity of half the software that 360 did in February. $184 million versus $97 million. Average selling price should be somewhat equal on those platforms.

 

[RpgN]

I'm not saying that piracy isn't hurting the PSP, but straight-up comparing pirated copies to bought copies is just asinine. It ignores just about every basic tenet of economics. Drop the price, more people will buy it. Drop the price to zero, a shitload more people (I'd estimate around double) are going to buy it than if you priced it at something like $1-5. People that pirate the game at 0 bucks are not all going to buy it at 35.

I don't think dropping the price would make this game suddenly a big success. The price is really good for psp games when first released (35 euro compared to 65-70 euro to ps3/xbox 360 games). The bastards just don't want to buy when it's much easier to get it for free and on a memory stick. I'm really sad for this game, since it's really good and deserves much better. I knew the software sales of psp aren't to speak home about, but I didn't expect it to be this low

 

[Vinci]

You just don't get it, do you? People don't buy the Wii because the PS3 & 360 are too expensive, they buy the Wii because they want the Wii.

You realize that a good portion of the gaming population believes that to be an utter impossibility, right? Like explaining to Flat Earth Society folks that the Earth is, in fact, round. But I applaud you trying to explain it.

 

[test_account]

I'm not saying that piracy isn't hurting the PSP, but straight-up comparing pirated copies to bought copies is just asinine. It ignores just about every basic tenet of economics. Drop the price, more people will buy it. Drop the price to zero, a shitload more people (I'd estimate around double) are going to buy it than if you priced it at something like $1-5. People that pirate the game at 0 bucks are not all going to buy it at 35.

I agree that it wont give a correct picture to compare number of bought copies to number of downloaded copies through some torrents since alot of those people who download most likely wouldnt by the game anyway, but what what do you mean with "dropping the price to zero"?

 

[DeadGzuz]

PS3 sold somewhere in the vicinity of half the software that 360 did in February. $184 million versus $97 million. Average selling price should be somewhat equal on those platforms.

Which tells me people are buying software on the PS3 at rates which are as good as the 360. Half the dollar total with less than half the install base isn't bad. I'd guess the average PS3 game is higher priced though, there are bunch or 2006 titles for cheap on the 360.

 

[Mushashi]

Hmmm.

Assuming X360 titles sold for 60 dollars apiece, Wii titles for 50, we're at about 3.0 million units of software this month for Xbox to 2.6 million of software units for Wii. Adjust for Rock Band's 180 price point, and we're at about 2.7 mil to 2.6 mil. Wii GH outsold 360 GH, so that's likely to skew it back in favor of Xbox.

Also interesting to note that Wii GH > 360 Rock Band > 360 GH. Wonder if Rock band sales are cutting into GH sales, or if games just naturally have better legs on the Wii due to the more casual audience.

Nintendo PR states Wii software sales were nearly 2.9 million software units. Also, Sony PR states PS2 had most software sales for home consoles.

 

[kswiston]

You realize that a good portion of the gaming population believes that to be an utter impossibility, right? Like explaining to Flat Earth Society folks that the Earth is, in fact, round. But I applaud you trying to explain it.

The fact that people are willing to buy Wiis online for $100 more than retail 15 months after launch makes it pretty evident that the Wii isn't just selling because of its price. If price was all that matters for a console to be successful than the Gamecube wouldn't have had its ass handed to it by the PS2 (seeing as it's launch price was cheaper than any of the modern consoles current prices).

 

[tanod]

Aside from piracy, I think that WipeOut Pulse suffered from a bad name. It's too similar to the first game that came out. Even though I have the first game "Pure," I still was getting confused when I was reading somebody talk about either one of them.

Also, shit for marketing. Sony's marketing is generally either non-existent or awesome. There's no consistency at all.

 

[GhaleonEB]

360 holding off the PS3 very well. With the recent price drop the 360 will keep it`s lead for awhile. Not bad.

Recent? Or do you mean upcoming?

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Recent? Or do you mean upcoming?

I think he is talking about the European cut that went into effect as of today.

 

[dyls]

You realize that a good portion of the gaming population believes that to be an utter impossibility, right? Like explaining to Flat Earth Society folks that the Earth is, in fact, round. But I applaud you trying to explain it.

Yup. It's the same way people assume that any game would sell 8 million copies worldwide if you bundled it with a controller for $10 more. Despite the fact that plenty of games drop to $10 and none of them get anywhere near 8 million copies sold. No one can accept the fact that maybe people actually want Wii Play, and that it is definitely not a given that someone who's willing to spend $40 will decide that $50 is okay, too.

Instead of constantly damning the game, we should be applauding Nintendo for doing something that seems so obvious, yet for some reason no one else ever really does, and being incredibly successful. Especially when the game in question is a pretty damn good value. But that might be a bit much for GAF.

 

[Slavik81]

I agree that it wont give a correct picture to compare number of bought copies to number of downloaded copies through some torrents since alot of those people who download most likely wouldnt by the game anyway, but what what do you mean with "dropping the price to zero"?

Imagine how far along the X-axis the red line would be if it was at 0 on the Y-axis. The X-intercept of the Demand Curve is how many copies will be pirated (assuming nobody has any morals). The Equilibrium point is the number of copies that will be sold if people actually buy it.

 

[Omar Ismail]

At this point, why do people even care about sales.

In the beginning of this gen I was supremely interested since the early days determine where support will end up, etc. But now, the trends are clear. Wii is doing gangbusters and will get party style mini-games, with the occassional big "hardcore" release.

360 and PS3 will both do quite well on a worldwide basis and will share 90% of the same game catalogue.

I guess now there's interest in the raw numbers and predicting them for the sake of it, but for me as a gamer, it's all irrelevant at this point.

 

[AnimeTheme]

Worldwide? Hell no. In the US it's still a competition because 360 still leads in installed base.

Europe as well. Wii is nowhere near domination there in terms of sw sales.

In Japan, Wii does dominate in sw sales, but that's pretty much just Nintendo themselves only, not any third parties.

 

[ksamedi]

I miss the old NPD where we had all the data. These top tens doesn't cut it for a big a market as the US. The Wii and PS3 are doing amazing. I'm especially happy for the PS3.

 

[methane47]

DANG IT I FORGOT YESTERDAY WAS NPD

 

[Elbrain]

DANG IT I FORGOT YESTERDAY WAS NPD

Where have you been man you have missed some really awesome stuff go through it for some good lolz!

 

[blitz64]

$99 PS2 will be insane :lol

$99 DS Lite will be insane :lol

$149 Wii will be insane :lol

$199 360 Prem will be insane :lol

$249 PS3 will be insane :lol

Too much to play *faints

Everything sounds great, I just want to change a little:

$249 Wii will be insane :lol

You can't get anymore insane when you sold all that you got for almost 1 and a half years.

 

[Slavik81]

Europe as well. Wii is nowhere near domination there in terms of sw sales.

In Japan, Wii does dominate in sw sales, but that's pretty much just Nintendo themselves only, not any third parties.

Right, I forgot. Software doesn't sell on Wii. Third parties are doomed, etc, etc.

 

[Innotech]

Everything sounds great, I just want to change a little:

$249 Wii will be insane :lol

You can't get anymore insane when you sold all that you got for almost 1 and a half years.

$149 Wii will be absolutely epic.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I think he is talking about the European cut that went into effect as of today.

Ah gotcha, my bad. I missed the "worldwide" in that chart, I'd assumed it was NPD given the thread. I hadn't kept up with this thead and should have assumed we'd moved onto the WW phase of the conversation.

And yeah, the cut is going to really help in Urop. Needs one just as aggressive in the US.

 

[donny2112]

When they do get released simply multiply every PS3 numbers by [360 LTDl/PS3 LTD] to get a normalized sales list.

See sonycowboy's Top 5 bad arguments list earlier in the thread.

Edit:
Aaaannnddd, I'm caught up with the thread. Pretty short thread this month. :lol

 

[PistolGrip]

Feb 07: $600
Feb 08: $400


Feb 07 it cost 150% of what it costs Feb 08.

econ 101, in the house.

Well the $400 is the cheaper model. You are comparing higher end model with cheaper one. Its really a $100 difference

 

[DeadGzuz]

See sonycowboy's Top 5 bad arguments list earlier in the thread.

I made no assumptions I was simply saying if you want to get a feel for PS3 software sales you have to normalize the install bases. If you have a point to debate, make it.

It's like saying Madden 2007 PS2 version outsold the PS3 version. Would you then draw the conclusion that PS3 football games don't sell?

 

[Elbrain]

I agree we need full list of the games this kinda sucks that we only get the top 10 and some random games thrown in too boot.

 

[donny2112]

If you have a point to debate, make it.

The point being that doing that inherently favors smaller userbases and by no means "normalizes" anything. Doing that, you might as well say that GameCube was doing gangbusters in software its first few years, since by your "normalization," it would have a been using a 4.5 multiplier by its second February compared to the PS2 in the U.S.

 

[kswiston]

The point being that doing that inherently favors smaller userbases and by no means "normalizes" anything. Doing that, you might as well say that GameCube was doing gangbusters in software its first few years, since by your "normalization," it would have a been using a 4.5 multiplier by its second February compared to the PS2 in the U.S.

Looking at Software shipment numbers reported by Nintendo for NES through Wii, the Gamecube did move a respectable amount of software for it's userbase. It had the best tie-in ratio of any Nintendo console to date (though the Wii will no doubt take that title in another couple of years).

EDIT:

Here are the numbers from Nintendo's annual reports (NES-N64 numbers from 2006 report)

Worldwide Numbers (HW=Hardware, SW=Software):

NES:
HW - 62M
SW - 500M
Tie: 8.06

SNES:
HW - 49M
SW - 379M
Tie: 7.73

N64:
HW - 33M
SW - 229M
Tie: 6.94

Gamecube:
HW: 22M
SW: 208M
Tie: 9.45

Nintendo console tie-in ratios were dropping each generation until the Gamecube. There weren't very many of them, but Gamecube owners bought games.

 

[xs_mini_neo]

why do ppl act like this over npd?

Because their system of choice has become a metaphor for "who has the bigger penis?" You know, like it is with cars and sports and politics and money, etc.

 

[CrushDance]

Meh to DMC4, I'm waiting for Ninja Gaiden 2, and option the PS3 owners don't have.

:lol That's sad man. Last month it was "DMC4 on 360 will crush the PS3 version" And now everyone is saying "oh.."

 

[George Claw M.D.]

I don't see Sony or SE supporting the PS2 anymore. People are really short-sighted when they see successes like the PS2 and think nothing will ever beat it, this industry is still in it's infancy, something will beat it eventually and the DS is one candidate to do so.

Really? While there is, definitely, still room for growth, you honestly think the videogame industry is still in its infancy? Really?

It's good to see Lost Odyssey selling well. We need more RPGs to be developed. I'd like to know how many 360 sales can be attributed to its RPG line-up, being that the 360 currently trounces the Wii and PS3, with its RPG offerings.

Regarding DMC4, I think the numbers are decent. Why did so many people expect this game to do so much better? It's not like DMC is a blockbuster series, relative to GTA, GT, or Halo. The game simply isn't as accessible, nor is its series as popular, as those aforementioned games, thus it's selling to a smaller pool of potential buyers.

 

[Somnia]

Where's the NPD numbers for PC Games? I know they aren't exciting but still.

 

[Zerachiel]

The point being that doing that inherently favors smaller userbases and by no means "normalizes" anything. Doing that, you might as well say that GameCube was doing gangbusters in software its first few years, since by your "normalization," it would have a been using a 4.5 multiplier by its second February compared to the PS2 in the U.S.

You're right for the most part. I think people are concerned with tie ratios too much. Absolute software sales are the only thing that matter at this very moment. Tie ratios are only useful for predicting absolute software sales if the install bases change (especially relative to each other). Since it seems that PS3's install base is on the upswing, and may overtake the 360's WW by the end of the generation, tie ratios are an important question, because if "PS3 owners buy less games" (a plausible hypothesis, given that some people are undoubtedly buying it as a blu ray player) is true, the PS3 may surpass the 360 in install base while still failing to attract the lion's share of 3rd-party development.

 

[test_account]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v48/Slavik81/350px-Economic-surpluses.gif

Imagine how far along the X-axis the red line would be if it was at 0 on the Y-axis. The X-intercept of the Demand Curve is how many copies will be pirated (assuming nobody has any morals). The Equilibrium point is the number of copies that will be sold if people actually buy it.

If i understand that graph correct it shows that how lower the price is the more it would sell, which is true. But the question is if they will sell enough copies to make just as much money if the price is lower. If they make half the money after lowering the price they must sell twice as many copies, and that is unsure. They would probly sell more copies at a lower price point, but twice as many? Kinda hard to say.

 

[seattle6418]

I'm not saying that piracy isn't hurting the PSP, but straight-up comparing pirated copies to bought copies is just asinine. It ignores just about every basic tenet of economics. Drop the price, more people will buy it. Drop the price to zero, a shitload more people (I'd estimate around double) are going to buy it than if you priced it at something like $1-5. People that pirate the game at 0 bucks are not all going to buy it at 35.

i knows that this is NPD, but in asia, latin america and africa, prices have evrything to do with piracy. well, that's an extreme, but some of that might be truth for north america also. we have lots of kids gaming, and sometimes those kids don't have deep pockets.

i still believe the ideal price for handheld games is 20 bucks, almost the price of a movie. only way to get there is to keep the maret expanding until its really a mass market. i'm not saying lower prices will kill piracy, but they will help a lot.

 

[AlteredBeast]

:lol That's sad man. Last month it was "DMC4 on 360 will crush the PS3 version" And now everyone is saying "oh.."

That's funny, if anyone was paying attention to the Musings threads, they would've seen that the PS3 version and 360 version were trending very similarly. The PS3 one was even outperforming the 360 version in my microcosm.

 

[mildewproduction]

Your lack of political knowledge was the downfall of your joke here

LMAO my political knowledge is what made my joke perfect. Do you even watch Stewart, or do you just have the icon? You do not fail, you ARE the fail.

 

[iosef]

It's pretty amazing that this time last year these threads were all "OMG Wii." Now everyone just takes it for granted and the debates are about second place.

 

[Starchasing]

Wii is doing gangbusters and will get party style mini-games, with the occassional big "hardcore" release..

Yeah sure, at this rate PS3/360 will be the ones getting the occassional big hardcore releases. Did anyone expect Contra 4 to be released on DS. Same thing with Wii, in a couple of years we will see releases no one expected and no one will complain.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Yeah sure, at this rate PS3/360 will be the ones getting the occassional big hardcore releases. Did anyone expect Contra 4 to be released on DS. Same thing with Wii, in a couple of years we will see releases no one expected and no one will complain.

Assuming this takes, I don't imagine that there will be no complaints.

 

[C- Warrior]

Really? While there is, definitely, still room for growth, you honestly think the videogame industry is still in its infancy? Really?

It's good to see Lost Odyssey selling well. We need more RPGs to be developed. I'd like to know how many 360 sales can be attributed to its RPG line-up, being that the 360 currently trounces the Wii and PS3, with its RPG offerings.

Regarding DMC4, I think the numbers are decent. Why did so many people expect this game to do so much better? It's not like DMC is a blockbuster series, relative to GTA, GT, or Halo. The game simply isn't as accessible, nor is its series as popular, as those aforementioned games, thus it's selling to a smaller pool of potential buyers.

530,000 for DMC4 1st month is pretty damn good for a hardcore japanese 3rd person action game. I think if anyone expected it to do better needs a reality check. The game (if you include expected European and Japanese sales) has already sold more than a million units just in the first month. With upcoming PC and budget price sales, 2 million is an easy target.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Because their system of choice has become a metaphor for "who has the bigger penis?" You know, like it is with cars and sports and politics and money, etc.

Actually, it has a lot more to do with group identity and how that reflects on the self identity, and has very little to do with penii as we see similar effects in the female of the species.

Have you ever considered that you may have an obsession with the male sex organ?

 

[Mrbob]

500,000K+ for DMC4 in month one is awesome. Capcom making the game multiplatform paid off big time.

There is really no other spin.

Not every game sells a million copies a month. In fact, most don't.

 

[C- Warrior]

500,000K+ for DMC4 in month one is awesome. Capcom making the game multiplatform paid off big time.

There is really no other spin.

Not every game sells a million copies a month. In fact, most don't.

Well, in a sense -- if European sales are at least comparable to NA sales, then DMC4 did indeed sell 1 million +.

PS3:
NA:233,000
JPN:300,000
EU: 233,000 (assuming it did the same as NA, and looking off DMC3, EU was comparable to NA)

360:
NA: 295,000
JPN: 60,000
EU: 233,000 (assumption)

1,354,000 (total, 1st month)

I keep hearing people say "I expected it to do better." What the shit....really? you did? Wow.

 

[Opiate]

This thread actually seems, on the whole, quite reasonable to me.

Although I do wish these statements suggesting the 360 is "dominating" or "curb stomping" (ugh, what a term) the PS3 and Wii in software sales needs to be halted. It isn't true. In the PS3's case, one could argue that the lower install base isn't an excuse for lower software sales, and I would agree with that arguement; taking that out of the picture though, it's clear the PS3 sold approximately as much software as the 360 did, relative to install base, based on software revenue (for which the numbers yield relatively equivalent units, since both systems have similar software pricing structures).

In the Wii's case, we know that it sold more software than the 360 in December and January, despite having a notably lower install base (about 20% lower), and we can also assume reasonably that the Wii will sell more software in March too, thanks to Super Smash. This month, we know the Wii sold 2.9 million units of software, and the 360 sold less than 3.6 million (because that's the DS's total, which was the highest software total of the month). Even being generous and assuming the 360 sold the effective maximum of 3.5 million units, that puts the total software sales at approximately what they should be, relative to install base. In other words, that means the Wii sold about as much software as it "should," compared to the 360. The last couple of months (most notably the critical December month) where the Wii had a lower install base but still sold more software were the real abnormality; in those cases, the Wii has been flat out outperforming the 360 in software.

Any time someone raises these sorts of "wow 360 is dominating software!" remarks, I think it's important for people with more knowledge (such as Stump or Jokeropia, who did an admirable job in this thread) to put an end to such remarks as quickly as possible. It's clear these sorts of notions stay alive by viral methods, and everyone simply assumes they're still true because everyone says so.

The 360 DID sell more software than either of its competitors. That isn't in question. The point is that this is no longer the case.

 

[George Claw M.D.]

530,000 for DMC4 1st month is pretty damn good for a hardcore japanese 3rd person action game. I think if anyone expected it to do better needs a reality check. The game (if you include expected European and Japanese sales) has already sold more than a million units just in the first month. With upcoming PC and budget price sales, 2 million is an easy target.

My point, exactly! I said DMC4 did decent numbers, and was wondering why people were disappointed in it. Like you said, it's a hardcore game, yet people expect everyone and his mother to pick it up. It's doing well for what it is, which is not GTA.