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[Nydius]

they restarted the game in 2022. Small difference but pretty significant. Not the same thing but we got GOW in 2018 and Ragnarok in 2023. But Perfect Dark is far from completion. Not judging, but the fact is that creating a new studio is hard. I find it a little weird, but this article hyped me a little about Perfect Dark. The ambition presented in the first part of it described a game that I would like to play. I didn't care about it before. But I do now. The thing is, making a game is hard. Doing it at the level of excellence that can be compared with the best in the industry(Sony, Nintendo,Rockstar...) is even harder. It is clear that Perfect Dark had been revealed way too soon.

I do not think that we can talk about mismanagement in this case. But to explain it better I will try to compare it with Hideo Kojima "new" studio Kojima productions. At a first glance it would be easy to say that just because Kojima created Death Stranding in just 4 years, then Perfect Dark should have done the same, right? But the core team that made the game was there for a long time at Konami. And the studio was created by Konami in April. It got independent in December with Kojima, and got to create Death Stranding with all the help that Sony could give him. Thge most important was that they made the choice to make a game fast, not to try for the moon immediatly. They did not create their own game engine or changed it midway, but took one offered by Sony. They did not iterate a lot, but got a good enough idea and pushed from it. In comparison the ambition of Perfect Dark is to be a blockbuster, a AAAA game, and that is not easy to make. In that regard, we can't complain that Microsoft does not have GOTY, and when they try to create one/ create a studio that want to make a game that can be GOTY, complain that it takes time. As a Sony fan, I have been accoustumed after years of the Cerny method being used in most of their studios as having games with a clear formula, for all the good and bad that it gives them. Doing it differently means loosing time, and that is normal. We can laugh all we want about Microsoft PR being self destructive, but at least they are trying. They really should wait to have a game with solid foundations before showing it off, but I hope that they learned their lesson. And that Perfect Dark is good when it launch.

Boy oh boy that sure was two paragraphs of pure Copium and distilled PR spin where the only thesis argument is “making games is hard!”.

We can’t talk about mismanagement when Microsoft has a 20 year history of mismanaging every studio and IP they’ve owned, outside of Forza? They’ve bungled every single one including Halo and Gears. We can’t talk about mismanagement of showing off a game a couple years ago that’s still, only now, in preproduction? We can’t talk about mismanagement when the same “hands off” approach is what led directly to Redfall?

 

[Elysium44]

I thought they had pretty much said this publicly already (if not in this exact wording): Microsoft doesn't believe in managing studios and IP, they believe in acquisitions.

It seems like stamp collecting for them. They just collect them in order to have them, not to do anything with them.

Does Spencer have any actual real world experience of running a profitable business enterprise? Does he know what he's doing? He just seems to be burning through shareholders' money. Buy up the market and get people subscribing to game pass seems to be the only thing on his mind. The actual quantity and quality of games is a distant afterthought, of incidental or no importance.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Looks at Arkane Austin.

They would likely be dead by now if it wasn’t for MS.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Would anyone be surprised if we heard the same story about Indiana Jones? That’s another game that feels like it was revealed WAY too early.

If they’re able to get Avowed, Hellblade 2 and Fable out in 2024, they’ll be okay-ish. But after that, 2025 looks like another waiting year. Wait for Perfect Dark. Wait for Indiana Jones. Wait for Gears 6. Wait for Forza Horizon 6. Wait for Elder Scrolls 6.

MachineGames isn't a studio that had to be built from the ground up. They are a proven studio that released two of the better FPS experiences of the last console generation with Wolfenstein I & II. I trust them to deliver once the time comes.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

They would likely be dead by now if it wasn’t for MS.

RedFall was going to release even if Microsoft hadn't purchased Zenimax/Bethesda. The only difference is it would have had a ton of MTX and been multiplatform. People on here hating on Microsoft as if they mandated Arkane to create the shitty game.

 

[Darsxx82]

Why in hell announce a game that take 20 years to make?

It is a common practice among the Studios and especially among those of recent creation with the need to hire new staff in significant numbers. Draw attention from the power of attraction of the project and the people who carry it out.


There is no discussion, The Initiative is a clear example of putting money without control... A Paris Sant Germain in football. Hire top top devs and lots of egos. Almost 3 years lost among people wanting to impose their ideas on others and with COVID in the middle and change to UE5.

As I said at the time, the best news the project could receive was the signing with Crystal Dynamics and apparently it is now when the project is taking steps in the right direction.

 

[AJUMP23]

Never forget:

The Initiative shows off Xbox boss Phil Spencer playing its unannounced first-party game

He looks like he's having a good time, at least

www.gamesradar.com

PreVis blocks and mapping.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Boy oh boy that sure was two paragraphs of pure Copium and distilled PR spin where the only thesis argument is “making games is hard!”.

We can’t talk about mismanagement when Microsoft has a 20 year history of mismanaging every studio and IP they’ve owned, outside of Forza? They’ve bungled every single one including Halo and Gears. We can’t talk about mismanagement of showing off a game a couple years ago that’s still, only now, in preproduction? We can’t talk about mismanagement when the same “hands off” approach is what led directly to Redfall?

Gears of War was mismanaged? That's news to me.

 

[ungalo]

the ambition of Perfect Dark is to be a blockbuster, a AAAA game, and that is not easy to make. In that regard, we can't complain that Microsoft does not have GOTY, and when they try to create one/ create a studio that want to make a game that can be GOTY, complain that it takes time

Where does that come from exactly ? Sounds laughable coming from Microsoft.

Did you read what is said about the dev ? They built a studio from the ground up to make it, then proceed to fuck it up, half of the devs at Initiative left. They called an external studio to actually work on it. And they don't even bother to supervise the whole thing.

Does that sound like trying to make a GOTY contender ? Or perhaps they're completelty out of touch with reality, to repeat the same mistakes all the time i don't know.

 

[odhiex]

Hands off approach, even for internal Microsoft studios? This is recipe of disaster.

 

[iamvin22]

Classic Microsoft. That's why they will never be able to build a lasting catalog of IP's.

I wouldn't be surprised they hold onto this game for the next Xbox system.

 

[ungalo]

And the IGN article says it could be episodic. A blockbuster AAAA indeed.

 

[Dane]

they restarted the game in 2022. Small difference but pretty significant. Not the same thing but we got GOW in 2018 and Ragnarok in 2023. But Perfect Dark is far from completion. Not judging, but the fact is that creating a new studio is hard. I find it a little weird, but this article hyped me a little about Perfect Dark. The ambition presented in the first part of it described a game that I would like to play. I didn't care about it before. But I do now. The thing is, making a game is hard. Doing it at the level of excellence that can be compared with the best in the industry(Sony, Nintendo,Rockstar...) is even harder. It is clear that Perfect Dark had been revealed way too soon.

I do not think that we can talk about mismanagement in this case. But to explain it better I will try to compare it with Hideo Kojima "new" studio Kojima productions. At a first glance it would be easy to say that just because Kojima created Death Stranding in just 4 years, then Perfect Dark should have done the same, right? But the core team that made the game was there for a long time at Konami. And the studio was created by Konami in April. It got independent in December with Kojima, and got to create Death Stranding with all the help that Sony could give him. Thge most important was that they made the choice to make a game fast, not to try for the moon immediatly. They did not create their own game engine or changed it midway, but took one offered by Sony. They did not iterate a lot, but got a good enough idea and pushed from it. In comparison the ambition of Perfect Dark is to be a blockbuster, a AAAA game, and that is not easy to make. In that regard, we can't complain that Microsoft does not have GOTY, and when they try to create one/ create a studio that want to make a game that can be GOTY, complain that it takes time. As a Sony fan, I have been accoustumed after years of the Cerny method being used in most of their studios as having games with a clear formula, for all the good and bad that it gives them. Doing it differently means loosing time, and that is normal. We can laugh all we want about Microsoft PR being self destructive, but at least they are trying. They really should wait to have a game with solid foundations before showing it off, but I hope that they learned their lesson. And that Perfect Dark is good when it launch.

Its a cultural issue with western developers, RDR 2 full dev time was like 3-4 years out of the 8, Cyberpunk was developed in roughly 3 years. Lots of internal reboots and massive changes over the course.

 

[Raven77]

I love Xbox, I got a thing from them because I was one of the first few thousand people to sign up for Xbox Live and NEVER have my subscription lapse.

I also love Sony and absolutely ADORE Nintendo.

But, WHAT IN THE F is going on over at MS??? It's so hard to be a fan of them right now. This is unbelievable levels of incompetence. Phil should be removed immediately.

 

[Heisenberg007]

The public announcement of this game was just a thought experiment.

More like a "console selling experiment."

 

[Daneel Elijah]

They hyped Redfall and Halo like a AAAA game, so maybe we shouldn't trust anything they say until they prove it

Absolutely. But I am a optimistic man so I hope that this time it will work.

Boy oh boy that sure was two paragraphs of pure Copium and distilled PR spin where the only thesis argument is “making games is hard!”.

We can’t talk about mismanagement when Microsoft has a 20 year history of mismanaging every studio and IP they’ve owned, outside of Forza? They’ve bungled every single one including Halo and Gears. We can’t talk about mismanagement of showing off a game a couple years ago that’s still, only now, in preproduction? We can’t talk about mismanagement when the same “hands off” approach is what led directly to Redfall?

Shame that you got it that way. I think that I was pretty vocal against Microsoft in the redfall review thread, so in that case it was mismanagement, as they should have cancelled it when they got control of Bethesda. Halo was so bad that they fired most of the leadership and we had a article from Jason Schreier that made it clear that 343i lost a lot from theyr failure, and that they will not do Halo stuff in the near future. I gave my opinion in the Perfect Dark, that it is not mismanagement, but a clear choice to be ambitious. If it fail, and the game is cancelled, or is shit like Redfall is, then I will be proved wrong. But for now being late is not that much of a big deal. Not being as good as Sony management seems obvious to me, but this another opinion.

Where does that come from exactly ? Sounds laughable coming from Microsoft.

Did you read what is said about the dev ? They built a studio from the ground up to make it, then proceed to fuck it up, half of the devs at Initiative left. They called an external studio to actually work on it. And they don't even bother to supervise the whole thing.

Does that sound like trying to make a GOTY contender ? Or perhaps they're completelty out of touch with reality, to repeat the same mistakes all the time i don't know.

From the article:

But The Initiative was somewhat experimental: wholly new at the time it was announced, headed up by former Crystal Dynamics chief Darrell Gallagher, and with his former Crystal colleague Dan Neuburger as game director. Based in Santa Monica, the newly-formed creative team was, per Xbox, given freedom to select its first project, and opted to bring back Rare’s lapsed spy IP, Perfect Dark. Their selection dovetailed neatly with Xbox’s goals: Xbox wanted a “flagship” title within every major genre, and Perfect Dark could be the flag it planted in the underserved realm of spy/espionage

Gallagher’s plan, which he and other studio leads partially laid out in a development video alongside The Game Awards trailer, was for The Initiative to craft a reimagined Perfect Dark that would be a true blockbuster, with the best graphics, innovative gameplay and tech, driven by a powerful narrative and a strong protagonist in Joanna Dark. Internally at The Initiative, early employees recall hearing comparisons to massive TV and film franchises, such as Game of Thrones or Westworld. Gallagher imagined a spy thriller with big, memorable set pieces, lots of physicality, and plenty of gadgets, all amid a hopeful eco-futurist setting masking a corrupt underworld. Several employees from the early days of the studio recalled the designation “AAAA” being thrown around as a way to emphasize the sheer size and scale of what they should be building (it was also used in at least one public job listing). Everyone I spoke to who recalled hearing the term said there was never a clear explanation of what it practically meant.

I put the GOTY to explain how I understood the article. And yes, not only did they fail at making the game, but they also lost a lot of key people. For me it was a good news, at some of those people have been taken from Sony teams and got back home.

 

[Dr_Ifto]

Man, this is textbook reason to not announce things early.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This games was announced who knows which year (probably 2020 or 2021), but it was always destined to be a like a 2025+ game. There's no way it'd be coming out so soon after a nothing teaser. Same with SoD 3.

 

[deriks]

Classic Microsoft. That's why they will never be able to build a lasting catalog of IP's.

They all do, not only Microsoft. It's the worst, but it's not "classic Microsoft". That doesn't make much sense

 

[Banjo64]

Not even being provocative when I say this could actually be a cross gen release in 2028.

I’m at a loss for words.

 

[Spukc]

 

[hyperbertha]

Jesus christ the incompetence over at xbox is actually fucking remarkable. Announcing games fucking half a decade before they might come out, idiots

Half a decade? Oh my sweet summer child

 

[Luigi Mario]

I have no idea how Matt Booty still has a job at Microsoft.
All this talk about management being completely hands off is puzzling. That’s the job right there, resolving conflict and providing leadership.

Hard not to see this as more incompetence.

Also, devs from all three studios said that Microsoft is “remarkably hands-off” with this project, which seems to imply that Matt Booty was completely fine with them dicking around for years.

 

[Topher]

 

[StealthGoblin]

It begs the question why Microsoft didn’t buy SE’s western division.

Crystal Dynamics are working on Perfect Dark
Eidos Montreal are working on Fable

With the IP as well it made sense.

 

[Darsxx82]

I have no idea how Matt Booty still has a job at Microsoft.
All this talk about management being completely hands off is puzzling. That’s the job right there, resolving conflict and providing leadership.

Hard not to see this as more incompetence.

This is the result of a period of time where MS was criticized for wanting to influence the work of its Studios too much and for preventing creative freedom.

P. Spencer promised to open another cycle and expand the independence of his existing and future Studios (Bethesda-Zenimax continue to operate with full independence)...... But that's one thing and giving these Studios a blank check is another. at dad's expense M$ and if there is no result we look for excuses so that the next check is higher.

I certainly don't understand the need for the role of Matt Botty either if his job is only to sign checks.

 

[BlueLyria]

They hyped Redfall and Halo like a AAAA game, so maybe we shouldn't trust anything they say until they prove it

Halo goty 2020 though? And Redfall is going to be goty 2022 as well with Xbox game studios becoming publisher of the centenary of neogaf and metacritic

 

[DeepEnigma]

It begs the question why Microsoft didn’t buy SE’s western division.

Crystal Dynamics are working on Perfect Dark
Eidos Montreal are working on Fable

With the IP as well it made sense.

Maybe *puts on tinfoil* "Embracer Group" is a shell company for MS, and it will be swallowed in the not so distant future.

 

[Robb]

Xbox is "remarkably" hands off with the project.
Game still in pre production.

Feels like this used to be something positive that’s turning in to something negative..

MS need to make sure they have people with a plan at the wheel. It’s their money, but continuously restarting every 3 months sounds terrible.

 

[bxrz]

What new information is actually in this article? I feel like I read this exact article 1-2 years ago

 

[Calverz]

 

[In Cold Blood]

Jesus christ the incompetence over at xbox is actually fucking remarkable. Announcing games fucking half a decade before they might come out, idiots

Insomniac say hi with Wolverine.
Lots of companies announce games years before they are ready to be shipped.
Bethesda announced Starfield 5 years before it was to be released.

Alot of studios do announce it to get people to join their company and help develop the game.
Let's not forget that prior to them releasing the trailer, there was a ton of rumours that it was Perfect Dark they were doing, so they just came out and announced it.

I don't understand why people like you don't want to know what a studio is working until a year or two before it's ready to be released. I want to know what games are in the pipeline. I don't know what game id are working on yet, but I would rather know. Same goes for all studios.

But, we know the hate Bonner that some have here for MS and Xbox, and so any "bad news" that comes out, especially after their showcase was so good, would be jumped on here by the regulars.

 

[Wildebeest]

One thing we have learned from things like this and Redfall is that Microsoft management totally lose their shit with excitement the moment they see a CGI trailer for a game that doesn't exist.

 

[Unknown?]

Guys guys if they didn't do that there'd be hit pieces on Phil for showing nothing like Jim Ryan!! You can't just announce stuff when it's ready to be shown!

 

[bxrz]

Jesus christ the incompetence over at xbox is actually fucking remarkable. Announcing games fucking half a decade before they might come out, idiots

Let me introduce you to a game called Metroid Prime 4...

 

[TVexperto]

Sorry I know you guys like xbox management but this needs to stop, full new management, more control and centralsiation is needed similiar to playstation studios. fable, now this...everything still years away with no gameplay.

 

[foamdino]

There's that persistent rumor/inside knowledge that Microsoft uses contractors for the majority of game dev.

The key here is that contractors are on short (18 month) contracts and are routinely let go. This leads to new contractors coming in and having to learn the setup before they can be productive. This is worse when it's a custom engine, workflow and scripting tools they need to learn.



Just look at how many games at Microsoft have jumped to Unreal - much easier to find contractors that know Unreal, than in-house tools.

Microsoft (like many companies) prefers hiring contractors as they can be let go easily at any time to reduce costs to boost financials at end of quarter. The downside is constant churn, and intrinsic knowledge leaving all the time.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Maybe *puts on tinfoil* "Embracer Group" is a shell company for MS, and it will be swallowed in the not so distant future.

I wouldn’t be surprised. They make GamePass Fodder.

 

[foamdino]

What new information is actually in this article? I feel like I read this exact article 1-2 years ago

I suspect that unless anything changes at Microsoft, you will probably read another article like this in another 2 years time too.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Day one, whichever decade it lands in.

it'sbeen84years.gif

 

[Zuzu]

I don't expect this until 2028 at the earliest. Please give it to PlayGround Games instead!

 

[Poltz]

Insomniac say hi with Wolverine.
Lots of companies announce games years before they are ready to be shipped.
Bethesda announced Starfield 5 years before it was to be released.

Alot of studios do announce it to get people to join their company and help develop the game.
Let's not forget that prior to them releasing the trailer, there was a ton of rumours that it was Perfect Dark they were doing, so they just came out and announced it.

I don't understand why people like you don't want to know what a studio is working until a year or two before it's ready to be released. I want to know what games are in the pipeline. I don't know what game id are working on yet, but I would rather know. Same goes for all studios.

But, we know the hate Bonner that some have here for MS and Xbox, and so any "bad news" that comes out, especially after their showcase was so good, would be jumped on here by the regulars.

That’s probably a licensing thing from Disney. The Skydance Media Marvel game, Indiana Jones by Bethesda, Star Wars games at Respawn, Ubisoft’s Star Wars game. All seem to be announced really early.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Does anyone really care about this game? I get why people liked the first game for the time and the hardware but it never had a decent follow up and whatever made it special back then just couldn't seem less relevant today. I think the world has moved on.

Like it isn't a world or characters anyone cares about, it doesn't have any unique gameplay ideas anyone wants to see, like other than pure nostalgia what does this brand mean to anyone today?

 

[Ozriel]

If they’re able to get Avowed, Hellblade 2 and Fable out in 2024, they’ll be okay-ish. But after that, 2025 looks like another waiting year. Wait for Perfect Dark. Wait for Indiana Jones. Wait for Gears 6. Wait for Forza Horizon 6. Wait for Elder Scrolls 6.

All this because ONE newly formed studio’s struggling to gel?

Platform warz has shifted to 2025 now? ‘Okay-ish’ for a year with at least 4 AAA titles?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Insomniac say hi with Wolverine.

Announced in 2021, will be out in 2024/5. Bet. While 3-4 years is still too much for my taste, better than 5-10 years we've seen here. And they're still releasing a game this year. Their output can not be disputed.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

I suspect that unless anything changes at Microsoft, you will probably read another article like this in another 2 years time too.

This would be awful. The fact that it is a possibility speak a lot about Xbox reputation and the huge amount of work that they have to do to be seen as equal to the best in the industry.

 

[Darsxx82]

What new information is actually in this article? I feel like I read this exact article 1-2 years ago

In any case, with the support of Crystal Dynamics the project is already taking steps forward and progressing properly....

PS: According to this information and as it was announced, 50% of Crystal Dynamics is with PerfectDark and the other 50% with the new Tomb Raider. It is something that indicates the size and ambition of the project.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Day one, whichever decade it lands in.

It's not going to be good, I bet it will have call of duty style gameplay and barely resemble perfect dark. It's just PD in name but not actual gameplay.

 

[Ozriel]

It's not going to be good, I bet it will have call of duty style gameplay and barely resemble perfect dark. It's just PD in name but not actual gameplay.

Source?

 

[Nydius]

Insomniac say hi with Wolverine.
(Snip)

But, we know the hate Bonner that some have here for MS and Xbox, and so any "bad news" that comes out, especially after their showcase was so good, would be jumped on here by the regulars.

SonyToo!
NintendoToo!
BethesdaToo!

Yes, other companies have announced things far too early like Ubisoft’s BG&E2. But Microsoft has a very long track record of teasing games that aren’t coming out for 5+ years and continually teasing those games year after year for hype until they either end up cancelled or come out in shambles.

Telling the truth about your preferred plastic box brand isn’t having a “hate boner”. You just find the truth uncomfortable to hear because you know it’s accurate.

Edit: Also, Insomniac has been simultaneously developing Spider-Man 2. What other projects have The Initiative been working on? Nothing. So your initial SonyToo comparison has no merit.