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PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love

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S

studyguy

Member
Dominican Power said:
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-twitter-staffer-235263#pq=pnFE6U

What a fucking baby. This isn't going to help in the long run.
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Imagine if your job in the White House was to give the president of the US a fucking ego handjob on the daily so he doesn't shit the bed. What is this crap?

C5SXGL4VcAEkUco.jpg:small
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Wilsongt said:
God damnit. Don't these idiots see that the bigger threat here is the bald tangerine ape in the white house and not each other?
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Based on the last few pages - they do not, and it will take obviously much stronger consequences from a Trump presidency before people realize we either work together or get screwed separately.

balladofwindfishes said:
No it isn't. They'll just pick some other meaningless battle to whine about
Click to expand...

If Ellison wins, the Clintonites will piss and moan as well, so this is probably going to keep going on until we get our asses kicked enough by Congress + Trump to realize we need to work together.

Mayor Pete!
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Cybit said:
If Ellison wins, the Clintonites will piss and moan as well, so this is probably going to keep going on until we get our asses kicked enough by Congress + Trump to realize we need to work together.

Mayor Pete!
Click to expand...

Honestly I don't know any Clinton supporters who are opposed to Ellison, even if they favor Perez. Certainly not any who are going to be super unhappy if it goes to Ellison
 
S

soul creator

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I'm surprised there haven't been more pundit takes about why more educated people could see through Trump more easily.

We have used education to say "educated people are less accepting of open racism and sexism because of life experiences" and that could easily be true, but it could also be true that less educated people are just more prone to falling to con men and don't understand that shouting "I'm very smart!" doesn't make you smart.

People are starting to figure it out though!

C5S1EJ3WcAAbiVZ.jpg
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I'm reminded of this (long) article from 2012: The Long Con

This conditional prospect, which might prove discouraging to a skeptically minded mark, is all the more useful to reach those inclined to divide the moral universe in two—between the realm of the wicked, populated by secretive, conspiratorial elites, and the realm of the normal, orderly, safe, and sane.
Weyrich’s letter concludes by proposing an entirely specific, real-world remedy: slaying the wicked can easily be hastened for the low, low price of a $5, $10, or $25 contribution from you, the humble citizen-warrior.
These are bedtime stories, meant for childlike minds. Or, more to the point, they are in the business of producing childlike minds. Conjuring up the most garishly insatiable monsters precisely in order to banish them from underneath the bed, they aim to put the target to sleep.
Dishonesty is demanded by the alarmist fundraising appeal because the real world doesn’t work anything like this. The distance from observable reality is rhetorically required; indeed, that you haven’t quite seen anything resembling any of this in your everyday life is a kind of evidence all by itself. It just goes to show how diabolical the enemy has become. He is unseen; but the redeemer, the hero who tells you the tale, can see the innermost details of the most baleful conspiracies. Trust him. Send him your money. Surrender your will—and the monster shall be banished for good.
Click to expand...

It’s time, in other words, to consider whether Romney’s fluidity with the truth is, in fact, a feature and not a bug: a constituent part of his appeal to conservatives. The point here is not just that he lies when he says conservative things, even if he believes something different in his heart of hearts—but that lying is what makes you sound the way a conservative is supposed to sound, in pretty much the same way that curlicuing all around the note makes you sound like a contestant on American Idol is supposed to sound.
A Romney lie is a pure Ronald Reagan imitation.
In part the New York Times had it right, for as much as it’s worth: Romney’s prevarications are evidence of simple political hucksterism—“short, utterly false sound bites,” repeated “so often that millions of Americans believe them to be the truth.” But the Times misses the bigger picture. Each constituent lie is an instance pointing to a larger, elaborately constructed “truth,” the one central to the right-wing appeal for generations: that liberalism is a species of madness—an esoteric cult of out-of-touch, Europe-besotted ivory tower elites—and conservatism is the creed of regular Americans and vouchsafes the eternal prosperity, security, and moral excellence of God’s chosen nation, which was doing just fine before Bolsheviks started gumming up the works.
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MAGA!
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
Tammy's numbers have climbed up.

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...est-2-22?t=1487794749636#update-1487794749000

WI-Sen: The GOP pollster Magellan Strategies, on behalf of a group called “Committee to Defend the President” (wonder what their political leanings are?) is out with the first poll of next year’s Wisconsin Senate race, and they give Democratic incumbent Tammy Baldwin an early lead. Baldwin defeats Milwaukee County Sheriff and very nominal Democrat David Clarke 49-35. Magellan says that while the poll was in the field, Rep. Sean Duffy announced he wouldn’t run; in any case, Duffy trails 49-36.

The poll gives Clarke a 23-20 favorable rating, and argues he has some room to grow once he gets his name out. However, Baldwin has a 49-35 approval rating, quite a good score for a GOP poll. Clarke himself hasn’t ruled out challenging Baldwin, though he hasn’t shown any sign he’s seriously considering. However, a recent PPP survey gave Clarke a horrible 31-62 approval rating in Milwaukee County, and if he can’t get a job with Trump, he could decide that running statewide next year is a lot easier than trying to win re-election.
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C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
The Technomancer said:
Honestly I don't know any Clinton supporters who are opposed to Ellison, even if they favor Perez. Certainly not any who are going to be super unhappy if it goes to Ellison
Click to expand...

As someone working on the DNC campaign (and the Clinton campaign in the past), I wish I could say the same thing. The animosity in private is un-fucking-real. It is infuriating.

Do not confuse "outcry on Facebook / the internet" with "amount of people who are upset and will take their balls and go home".
 
N

nature boy

Member
LOL

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/22/cong...ump-to-offer-his-own-health-or-tax-plans.html

Congressional Republicans don't expect Trump to offer his own health or tax plans

Last year, candidate Donald Trump promised to repeal Obamacare and give Americans a better, cheaper replacement. Last month, President-elect Trump vowed, "we'll be filing a plan" as soon as the Senate confirmed his Health secretary.

But, post-confirmation, Health Secretary Tom Price has told House Republicans "the administration wouldn't be sending us a bill" after all, said Rep. Tom Cole of Oklahoma. Instead, Cole added, the White House "will cooperate and provide input into what we do."
Two weeks ago, Trump said at the White House that "we're going to be announcing something over the next, I would say, two or three weeks that will be phenomenal in terms of tax." But House Republicans do not expect the president to announce his own tax plan; instead, they anticipate he will simply align himself with theirs.
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C

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
I think there's going to be a lot of space in 2020 for a left-wing populist to win the general, as long as they're not throwing PoC and immigrants out of the message.

I think someone will be able to make a pretty strong argument akin to:

"Yes, America is screwed up and most people are being left behind, but it's not because of immigrants. It's because the business class have controlled the government. Your life hasn't gotten better under Trump because he's just another politician-businessman who's out to enrich himself at your expense."

Give that to someone charismatic and you've got a contender.
 
S

studyguy

Member
Trump will call the R tax plan his. If it falls flat, he'll say he provided them guidance but they summarily rejected his original plans regardless of proof otherwise. It's so obvious it's almost comical.
 
R

RastaMentality

Banned
Cybit said:
As someone working on the DNC campaign (and the Clinton campaign in the past), I wish I could say the same thing. The animosity in private is un-fucking-real. It is infuriating.

Do not confuse "outcry on Facebook / the internet" with "amount of people who are upset and will take their balls and go home".
Click to expand...
If it's behind the scenes operatives instead of the Busters who made memes and spread DNC hate for months on social media, isn't that way better? Clintonites aren't really that loud anywhere in public spaces.

I'd say the latter actually had an impact on the election and increased disillusionment.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Cybit said:
As someone working on the DNC campaign (and the Clinton campaign in the past), I wish I could say the same thing. The animosity in private is un-fucking-real. It is infuriating.

Do not confuse "outcry on Facebook / the internet" with "amount of people who are upset and will take their balls and go home".
Click to expand...

Hmm

Disappointing
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
CygnusXS said:
I think there's going to be a lot of space in 2020 for a left-wing populist to win the general, as long as they're not throwing PoC and immigrants out of the message.

I think someone will be able to make a pretty strong argument akin to:

"Yes, America is screwed up and most people are being left behind, but it's not because of immigrants. It's because the business class have controlled the government. Your life hasn't gotten better under Trump because he's just another politician-businessman who's out to enrich himself at your expense."

Give that to someone charismatic and you've got a contender.
Click to expand...
Sherrod Brown 2020 let's do this
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
RastaMentality said:
If it's behind the scenes operatives instead of the Busters who made memes and spread DNC hate for months on social media, isn't that way better? Clintonites aren't really that loud anywhere in public spaces.

I'd say the latter actually had an impact on the election and increased disillusionment.
Click to expand...

Well

A) They can be very indirectly loud in public spaces - think "sources" for politico articles, etc. Part of the reason social media tends to be flooded with Bernie supporters is a) youth but b) they can't complain to maureen dowd or maggie haberstam and have articles written. Ultimately, the only group of Bernie voters that didn't show up at the election in force were young minority voters, so parse that how you will. Last I checked we were at 91%+ of Democratic Primary Bernie voters voting for Clinton, which is greater than the 2008 Clinton to Obama share.

All of the actual voter roll / Catalist data we have so far suggests that Bernie at worst was neutral for the Dems in this election, and may have helped move young white voters in our favor. But, turnout was really high for Trump's core demographics and we took a pretty substantial hit among young PoC voters in some key states. (As always, ask me again in two years about what the data says then, lol)

B) They have a far larger impact on elections because they can take away institutional money, which is necessary for smaller elections / mid-term elections. DailyKos can't fund all these small elections; we need that institutional wealth so we can budget long-term and work on infrastructure upgrades for the DNC / DSCC / etc.
 
K

kirblar

Member
CygnusXS said:
I think there's going to be a lot of space in 2020 for a left-wing populist to win the general, as long as they're not throwing PoC and immigrants out of the message.

I think someone will be able to make a pretty strong argument akin to:

"Yes, America is screwed up and most people are being left behind, but it's not because of immigrants. It's because the business class have controlled the government. Your life hasn't gotten better under Trump because he's just another politician-businessman who's out to enrich himself at your expense."

Give that to someone charismatic and you've got a contender.
Click to expand...
Trump's killing populism off:

C5OcIbCUcAAxcbl.jpg:large
Click to expand...

You want a Macron/Trudeau/Schultz who embraces globalism. These right-wing waves eventually get to power after financial crises then collapse because they're know-nothing morons.
 
R

RastaMentality

Banned
Cybit said:
Well

A) They can be very indirectly loud in public spaces - think "sources" for politico articles, etc. Part of the reason social media tends to be flooded with Bernie supporters is a) youth but b) they can't complain to maureen dowd or maggie haberstam and have articles written.

B) They have a far larger impact on elections because they can take away institutional money, which is necessary for smaller elections / mid-term elections.
Click to expand...
That makes sense. The incessant "DNC is rigged!" just bothers me to no end since I know a lot of people who it deterred from voting. It's not going away but I felt Ellison would quell a bit of it.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
The French election has the current leader with a 10% approval rating and the leading candidate to succeed the French president is a guy with... almost the same policies but from a different party.

10% approval seems like it would be signalling a change election, but the French don't seem to want to change much policy-wise I guess.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Cybit said:
As someone working on the DNC campaign (and the Clinton campaign in the past), I wish I could say the same thing. The animosity in private is un-fucking-real. It is infuriating.

Do not confuse "outcry on Facebook / the internet" with "amount of people who are upset and will take their balls and go home".
Click to expand...
Are they viewing an Ellison win as rewarding Bernie for his bad behavior?
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
The French election has the current leader with a 10% approval rating and the leading candidate to succeed the French president is a guy with... almost the same policies but from a different party.

10% approval seems like it would be signalling a change election, but the French don't seem to want to change much policy-wise I guess.
Click to expand...
Hollande's all the way up to 10% now? He's making a comeback!
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
C

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
kirblar said:
Trump's killing populism off:



You want a Macron/Trudeau/Schultz who embraces globalism. These right-wing waves eventually get to power after financial crises then collapse because they're know-nothing morons.
Click to expand...

There may be multiple paths to victory by then. I definitely expect there to still be a strong sentiment of isolationism, but I think the best argument to attack Trump on could be that he's proved himself a grifting conman, rather than simply incompetent.

But then we should also see how this Russia stuff goes first.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
thefro said:
There's a faction of the Berniebros who think Ellison sold out already and that Sam Ronan (who said the primary was RIGGED during one of the DNC forums) is the only person they can support.
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Sam Ronan is a no name who couldn't win a seat in congress. It makes me roll my eyes that people are jumping behind him simply because he doesn't have any of Clinton's stank on him.
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
kirblar said:
Are they viewing an Ellison win as rewarding Bernie for his bad behavior?
Click to expand...

My limited perspective indicates that Perez supporters see Perez as an Obama appointee, not a Clinton-ite; while Ellison supporters see that all the Clinton-ites coincidentally fell into the Perez camp, so they view Perez as a Clinton-ite. At least so far, I don't see many of the DNC folks viewing Bernie's behavior as "bad" - but it's worth noting that most of them I know also were around in 2008, so they're all veterans of a much more brutal primary.

Perez has strong labor ties as well as ties to Obama and Clinton, and there's fear that Ellison is too extreme / plays into too many GOP stereotypes for the Dem Party. A black muslim progressive from the Midwest is not someone many people want as the face of the Dem Party showing up on Meet The Press / CNN / FOX / etc every time Trump does something stupid. I mean, there are legitimate critiques to both Perez (inexperienced on the entire campaigning thing, not a dynamic personality, insider-y) and Ellison (could be branded as a radical, extremely left-wing for much of the party, may not be able to replicate local success nationally, not had to fight in a purple district, potentially super easy target for GOP firebrands) that should be the real concerns. But I think the tribalism has been kicking in and making those kinds of discussions less valuable.

I mean, I think we will be OK with either of them; so I do not think it is worth using the DNC chair as a re-litigation of the primary.

(Mayor Pete for the win!!)

EDIT: It's worth nothing that optimistic me thinks that a lot of this is just due to the residual anger of losing to Trump, and no one a) wanting to admit that what they did either failed or helped Trump win and b) wanting to rage about Trump being president. I find myself agreeing with David Frum (WHY DO I HAVE TO TYPE THOSE WORDS) when he talks about the modern Dem Party being far more attached to catharsis than action. We're all in on catharsis but we're not doing very well on organization or long-term strategic action...yet. We're going to have an opportunity to prove whether we are capable of being an effective strategic resistance force or whether we want to just make ourselves feel better; and I think these upcoming special elections, as well as 2018, will be important tests for us in that regard.
 
M

Mutant

Member
Emerson said:
If Ellison loses, any person that decides they'd rather take their ball and go home rather than get over it and get to work fighting Trump over this is a complete moron.

You so upset that the less progressive Progressive won? You gonna vote for Trump now or what? Fuck off.
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We were already saying this before the election, and look how things turned out. :\
 
N

nature boy

Member
sc0la said:
Read:
A) will swoop in and shit all over it
B) make it more difficult to pass through within their own party with petty grudges and pointless tweeting
C) try and take credit for it
D) all of the above (correct answer)
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I think its become too toxic with an unpopular President and a small majority in the Senate, outside of the hardcore Rs in safe districts everyone else doesn't really want to face the backlash.

Although I would love if they did.
 
B

Blader

Member
Cybit said:
My limited perspective indicates that Perez supporters see Perez as an Obama appointee, not a Clinton-ite; while Ellison supporters see that all the Clinton-ites coincidentally fell into the Perez camp, so they view Perez as a Clinton-ite.
Click to expand...

Didn't Schumer and Pelosi endorse Ellison, or have they shifted recently?
 
H

Holmes

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
The French election has the current leader with a 10% approval rating and the leading candidate to succeed the French president is a guy with... almost the same policies but from a different party.

10% approval seems like it would be signalling a change election, but the French don't seem to want to change much policy-wise I guess.
Click to expand...
Canadian election 2015 v2.0: same policies, different face!
 
L

LostMyNarbles

Member
I really don't want to appease Sanders supporters just for the sake of them not complaining. We're talking about the same vocal internet supporters who stated they'd vote Trump over Clinton against the wish of Sanders and then walked back to Sanders after the election was over. It also sounds like Ellison is going to make a big stink if he loses and I don't think he deserves the position just so he doesn't have a temper tantrum.
 
M

Mutant

Member
I mean sure, if you don't want to stop Trump you're a piece of shit. But acknowledging the energy of the democratic base and working to keep it energized is important. Taking the "support this or fuck off" route again will only lead to depressing democratic support yet again.

I'm more of a Buttigieg guy and I'm guessing he's not going to win and that's fine for me. But there's an undercurrent of democrats who want to get involved and change the DNC for the better, and nominating a guy who has a history of playing nice with the banks seems like a surefire way to kill a lot of that energy. Combine that with numerous instances of DNC members voting with Trump and I can see a lot of people resignedly say "fuck this it's hopeless" and we get that Republican Supermajority in 2018. :\
 
K

kirblar

Member
Mutant said:
I mean sure, if you don't want to stop Trump you're a piece of shit. But acknowledging the energy of the democratic base and working to keep it energized is important. Taking the "support this or fuck off" route again will only lead to depressing democratic support yet again.

I'm more of a Buttigieg guy and I'm guessing he's not going to win and that's fine for me. But there's an undercurrent of democrats who want to get involved and change the DNC for the better, and nominating a guy who has a history of playing nice with the banks seems like a surefire way to kill a lot of that energy. Combine that with numerous instances of DNC members voting with Trump and I can see a lot of people resignedly say "fuck this it's hopeless" and we get that Republican Supermajority in 2018. :\
Click to expand...
If someone's primary concern is about "The Banks", ignoring them is the best thing you can do when you're the party who put the regulations in place the the GOP is trying to repeal.

edit: People vocally caring more about "Banking" than anything else is the Liberal version of Libertarians - there's a reason the people spouting this tend to be very white, very straight, and very male. Tons of lip service given to social issues, but in reality, they really care about their perception of their wallets.
 
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