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PoliGAF 2nd Pres. Debate 2008 Thread (DOW dropping, Biden is off to Home Depot)

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W

Worm_Buffet

Member
Fragamemnon said:
They cooked their LV weightings to reflect an America that would be more likely to self-identify as Republicans today than they were in 2004. Garbage poll.
Click to expand...

Could you elaborate?
What is the reasoning behind this? What does LV stand for?
 
A

ArtG

Member
HylianTom said:
Imagine the headlines when it plummets below 9000..
Click to expand...

And then when it flirts with 8000. (A real possibility with the upcoming earnings season that will probably have putrid quarterly earnings + terrible guidance for the foreseeable future.)
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
CharlieDigital said:
BTW, I'm just getting around to the previously posted This American Life podcast on the current economic crisis: scary as fuck and totally enlightening.

Everyone needs to listen to this. Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, whatever...it's completely non-partisan.
Click to expand...
Which one are you listening to, the one on the mortgage crisis or the follow-up on CDS? Both were very excellent.

artredis1980 said:
WTF!???


Diego/Hotline

Obama 45
McCain 44


didnt Obama lead by 8 points on this one 2 days ago?
Click to expand...
Somewhere Cheebs is running in circles
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Worm_Buffet said:
Could you elaborate?
What is the reasoning behind this? What does LV stand for?
Click to expand...
Reasoning? Stupidity and partisan polling?

LV stands for "Likely Voters." Basically, they think that the turnout in 2008 will be the same as in 2004. Which is so far from the truth it's not even funny.
 
A

ArtG

Member
Worm_Buffet said:
Could you elaborate?
What is the reasoning behind this? What does LV stand for?
Click to expand...

I couldn't tell you the specifics of the poll, but my interpretation is that the Hotline poll used old demographic information that is highly favorable to McCain.

LV = Likely Voter.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Worm_Buffet said:
Could you elaborate?
What is the reasoning behind this? What does LV stand for?
Click to expand...

Likely Voter.

Their poll is basically now "adjusted" to account for a higher Rep. turnout than 2004 and a lower dem turnout.

the fact that Obama leads in this situation still is really nice actually.
 
T

typhonsentra

Banned
I just got out from the Biden rally, it was nice there up until I was leaving.

I see once I step outside they're selling signs to put in front of your house for eight dollars, I don't have enough cash and that's all they take so after being outside for only a second I try to re-enter and am stopped by a cop.

"Sir, you can't re-enter!"
"I just, I just want to use the ATM."
"You can't re-enter, get out now."
".... You can see it from where you are it's right behind you. Come on."
"Get out."
"Could you at least tell me where another ATM is?"
"No, leave."


So yeah, no sign for me.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
A couple of things the discussion this AM brought to mind:

1) What's with the conservatives abandoning McCain after the debate? Hear and elsewhere I hear the "well, I won't vote" thing. Was it the active smearing, the polls sinking in, the debate performance, or something else? Because it seems like as of today, lots of former supporters are giving up on McCain.

2) I said this Monday night to a hardcore politcal (liberal) friend of mine-- that neither Barack nor McCain have executive experience, but how they run their campaigns is very telling. Obama seems to be quite the leader, while McCain's campaign always seems to be scrambling. From the rotating embarassing surrogates to the ever-changing strategy, that doesn't bode well for a potential Chief Executive. I realize this is not new news, but it's the clearest example of the differences between the candidates apart from the issues themselves.
 
G

GrapeApes

Member
Can someone link me to those Obama/Biden/McCain/Palin comparisons? The ones were like Obama is like a bullet train and Palin is a toy train.
 
W

Worm_Buffet

Member
reilo said:
Reasoning? Stupidity and partisan polling?

LV stands for "Likely Voters." Basically, they think that the turnout in 2008 will be the same as in 2004. Which is so far from the truth it's not even funny.
Click to expand...

I see.
Are there any polls that have attempted to examine differences in the likeliness of voting or enthusiasm between sympathizers for the two candidate for this election?

All I ever see are these kind of ridiculous demographic polls.
 
F

Fatalah

Member
Wow, Bayh = Nathan Petrelli. Even sounds like him!

bayh_2008_sff_ny113_20061201181558_2.jpg
HEROES_Nathan_Petrelli_by_davidyard.jpg
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
btw look at diegeo/hotlines internals

basically the poll went all zogby with fucked up party ID allocations

2% democratic advantage over republican, 18% independants

yeah... ok.

basically you can now stop caring about that poll, it's worthless
 
F

Fox318

Member
Kyuuketsu_Night said:
Just got back... so hungry. Here are some crappy cell phone pics.


About 5 pathetic McCain supporters
2drs7rm.jpg
Click to expand...

Just for shits and giggles: Were there any Ron Paul supporters there?
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
A couple of things the discussion this AM brought to mind:

1) What's with the conservatives abandoning McCain after the debate? Hear and elsewhere I hear the "well, I won't vote" thing. Was it the active smearing, the polls sinking in, the debate performance, or something else? Because it seems like as of today, lots of former supporters are giving up on McCain.
Click to expand...


Nobody wants to vote for a loser.
 
K

Kyuuketsu_Night

Member
typhonsentra said:
I just got out from the Biden rally, it was nice there up until I was leaving.

I see once I step outside they're selling signs to put in front of your house for eight dollars, I don't have enough cash and that's all they take so after being outside for only a second I try to re-enter and am stopped by a cop.

"Sir, you can't re-enter!"
"I just, I just want to use the ATM."
"You can't re-enter, get out now."
".... You can see it from where you are it's right behind you. Come on."
"Get out."
"Could you at least tell me where another ATM is?"
"No, leave."


So yeah, no sign for me.
Click to expand...

They are securtiy nazis at the sun dome =(
Even if they see you leave they won't let you back in.
 
E

electricpirate

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
A couple of things the discussion this AM brought to mind:

1) What's with the conservatives abandoning McCain after the debate? Hear and elsewhere I hear the "well, I won't vote" thing. Was it the active smearing, the polls sinking in, the debate performance, or something else? Because it seems like as of today, lots of former supporters are giving up on McCain.

2) I said this Monday night to a hardcore politcal (liberal) friend of mine-- that neither Barack nor McCain have executive experience, but how they run their campaigns is very telling. Obama seems to be quite the leader, while McCain's campaign always seems to be scrambling. From the rotating embarassing surrogates to the ever-changing strategy, that doesn't bode well for a potential Chief Executive. I realize this is not new news, but it's the clearest example of the differences between the candidates apart from the issues themselves.
Click to expand...

Conservatives seemed ticked about 3 things, 2 at the debate

1) not Rove enough at the debate, not enough Ayers, not enough Wright.
2) McCain dropping a new 300 million spending initiative to buy up bad mortgages and lower the prices for foreclosures.
3) Just a poorly run campaign, why is he still visiting Iowa, why isn't he defending NC ect.j
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
DopeyFish said:
btw look at diegeo/hotlines internals

basically the poll went all zogby with fucked up party ID allocations

2% democratic advantage over republican, 18% independants

yeah... ok.

basically you can now stop caring about that poll, it's worthless
Click to expand...
Wow, what the fuck? Why did they change it? That's garbage.
 
T

teruterubozu

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
A couple of things the discussion this AM brought to mind:

1) What's with the conservatives abandoning McCain after the debate? Hear and elsewhere I hear the "well, I won't vote" thing. Was it the active smearing, the polls sinking in, the debate performance, or something else? Because it seems like as of today, lots of former supporters are giving up on McCain.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm hearing lots of "they both suck " from conservatives today. :lol
 
T

Trurl

Banned
I really liked Friedman's column in the NYT today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/08/opinion/08friedman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

And there was one thing she [Palin] said in the debate with Joe Biden that really sticks in my craw. It was when she turned to Biden and declared: “You said recently that higher taxes or asking for higher taxes or paying higher taxes is patriotic. In the middle class of America, which is where Todd and I have been all of our lives, that’s not patriotic.”

What an awful statement. Palin defended the government’s $700 billion rescue plan. She defended the surge in Iraq, where her own son is now serving. She defended sending more troops to Afghanistan. And yet, at the same time, she declared that Americans who pay their fair share of taxes to support all those government-led endeavors should not be considered patriotic.

I only wish she had been asked: “Governor Palin, if paying taxes is not considered patriotic in your neighborhood, who is going to pay for the body armor that will protect your son in Iraq? Who is going to pay for the bailout you endorsed? If it isn’t from tax revenues, there are only two ways to pay for those big projects — printing more money or borrowing more money. Do you think borrowing money from China is more patriotic than raising it in taxes from Americans?” That is not putting America first. That is selling America first.
Click to expand...
 
D

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
Fatalah said:
For those of you with DishNetwork, my buddy Archaix said that there are some commercials specifically made to air on their cable service. So while you're watching Comedy Central, an Obama ad comes up talking about the economy, and a little message says "to hear more about Obama's plan, press the select button on your controller".

You then get re-routed to the Obama channel available only on Dish Network.

Hyperlinking has made it to TV! Pretty cool.
Click to expand...

Yeah I saw that the other day (I have Dish). I decided to press it out of curiosity, and bam! I was on the Obama channel. I was honestly shocked we have a 24-hour Obama channel :lol Unfortunately, it's just his one-minute commercial that I normally see on other channels, but it's on a continuous loop.

I've seen icons on certain Dish channels that say "press select to get CNN Enhanced" or "press select to get your local weather" or some such thing, which load interactive Internet-like menus, but never an icon that redirected me to another channel. Definitely kinda cool.
 
M

manngc

Member
electricpirate said:
Conservatives seemed ticked about 3 things, 2 at the debate

1) not Rove enough at the debate, not enough Ayers, not enough Wright.
2) McCain dropping a new 300 million spending initiative to buy up bad mortgages and lower the prices for foreclosures.
3) Just a poorly run campaign, why is he still visiting Iowa, why isn't he defending NC ect.j
Click to expand...
I think it's really the fault of number "2". That really stuck out to me in the debate and is completely opposite of fiscal responsiblity which is a big deal for a fiscal conservative. I know I didn't like it.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Oh, and today's Fresh Air is worth listening to. Terry Gross talks with one of the US Attorneys fired for not being partisan, particularly prosecuting bogus voter fraud cases that had no evidence.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
So since I never really got around to writing my post-debate follow-up, here goes in a couple of points -

1. (Mortgage) Resurgance Plan - McCain's second straight 'wtf' policy plan introduced during a debate. He's right in that at the core, the genesis of the crisis is based on the sharp decline in housing assets and that arresting this decline will likely stabilize the freefall. The problem for me is this - stabilizing these prices essentially resets the bubble and sets it in stone - leaving current housing prices still well above historical levels. When considering a decade in stagnant working-class wages, this isn't a good option. They need to fall more.

2. This kinda had a Kennedy-Nixon feel to me, in that it was real easy to see the generational gap between Obama and McCain without the podium. The former seemed more commanding in his presence and speech, while McCain was a bit uncomfortable (getting too close to questioners, zagging back and forth like a Roomba and horribly flat jokes).

3. Obama scored huge brownie points by calling health care a right, not just a responsibility (hey McCain, a responsibility for who?). McCain won points for giving a succinct, smart answer to Brokaw's Russert-esque Yes/No question on Russia.

Hitokage said:
Oh, and today's Fresh Air is worth listening to. Terry Gross talks with one of the US Attorneys fired for not being partisan, particularly prosecuting bogus voter fraud cases that had no evidence.
Click to expand...
But Gaborn taught me that there doesn't need to be evidence in voter fraud cases.
 
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