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[aceface]

I thought tonight's speech was fine but the thing is that McCain can't portray himself as the candidate of change, because all Obama has to say is "past 8 years=Republican" and that argument is gone. Just keep drilling that "I voted with George Bush 90% of the time, more than most senators" commercial in the battleground states and he'll be fine. McCain is respected but he's not personable. He's not the kind of guy that gets people to jump off the couch and go vote for him. He's a Kerry'esque candidate.

 

[Hitokage]

All this "OMG I'LL MOVE" talk is extremely premature.

I thought tonight's speech was fine but the thing is that McCain can't portray himself as the candidate of change, because all Obama has to say is "past 8 years=Republican" and that argument is gone. Just keep drilling that "I voted with George Bush 90% of the time, more than most senators" commercial in the battleground states and he'll be fine. McCain is respected but he's not personable. He's not the kind of guy that gets people to jump off the couch and go vote for him. He's a Kerry'esque candidate.

Oh, that reminds me, I saw "Same" on WCNC at around 4pm today.

 

[Gaborn]

Ron Paul's appearance on the colbert report was very strong as usual, and as usual he showed why he'd be a better nominee for the Republicans (and someone I could actually vote for) rather than John McCain.

With that said, I thought McCain was very effective tonight, he was pretty obviously overshadowed by Palin, but he was pretty moving and effective even while not saying much he tried to invoke some strong imagery and I thought it was very useful. Also striking to me was the difference between him and Bush in his speeches. Often critics pointed out that Bush never asked the country to "do" something (one of Bush's better qualities if you ask me). At the same time McCain's speech was ABOUT service. I'm not sure he convinced a lot of people but the rhetorical contrast with Bush was striking at least.

 

[Diablos]

Obama-philes seem rather deflated recently with Palin's high ratings last night and all the mud apparently not yet sticking ?

Anyone worried McCain might actually win now?

I sure hope not, but nothing out of this election would surprise me.

 

[speculawyer]

Ron Paul (and maybe Huckabee) is/are the only sane and reasonable Republicans in the field this year. I think I could actually listen to Paul or Huck give a speech.

Huck is charismatic . . . but he is an insane fundamentalist.

Ron Paul has much better policies . . . but also a bit insane. (WTF is with the gold standard and the bankers?) But if I had to pick a GOPer, it would be Ron Paul. (Bloomberg would have been my #1 but he abandoned the crazy party.)

 

[VanMardigan]

So did Obama run that ad congratulating McCain? Similar to what McCain did last week.

 

[slidewinder]

So Palin was picked as a way of guaranteeing that hard-right 'christian conservative,' etc. base, leaving McCain free to be his old pre-2000 self and maybe actually put up a challenge.

Hope he can still find that self (and that he doesn't die during his term if elected, God help us all).

Edit: Point being, it looks like McCain is ditching the 'McSame' schtick, and quickly. His pick of Palin wasn't a matter of 'shoring up' a base that he himself would also continue to pander to. He's hoping that he can drop Palin off in the laps of the social conservatives and other USA! USA! USA! types, and that she'll keep them enchanted enough that HE can run his 2000 campaign again. Or what he would've run if he had won the nomination.

 

[Stinkles]

God I am watching O'Reilly interview Obama and I want to vomit.

 

[Touchdown]

....She gets deployed in Florida on Monday. It's Go Time....

 

[heliosRAzi]

:lol on MSNBC

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Huck is charismatic . . . but he is an insane fundamentalist.

Ron Paul has much better policies . . . but also a bit insane. (WTF is with the gold standard and the bankers?) But if I had to pick a GOPer, it would be Ron Paul. (Bloomberg would have been my #1 but he abandoned the crazy party.)

The gold standard is a really good idea. I did a lot of reading on fiat currency, inflation and the Fed in college, and it really is the best part of the Libertopian platform [/derail]

 

[GrapeApes]

There's only one girl in that picture, and she ain't chubby.

Not that much better

One thing I'm trying to figure after watching the video they showed on Cindy McCain. Did they just steal the girl from her parents or was she an orphan? They brought her to America for life-saving surgery which is fantastic but did they just say "We're keeping her"?

They adopted her. Cindy McCain seems to believe Mother Theresa asked her personally though they never met.

 

[speculawyer]

Ohio and Florida may be in the tank for McCain, but I'm crossing my fingers for Colorado. Even Nevada would do the trick.

Florida may be a hopeless case because of old people and identity politics. But Ohio and Florida are doable. Especially since the economy will probably continuing going downhill and the Ohio people will scream "Uncle" for change.

 

[ronito]

I thought tonight's speech was fine but the thing is that McCain can't portray himself as the candidate of change, because all Obama has to say is "past 8 years=Republican" and that argument is gone. Just keep drilling that "I voted with George Bush 90% of the time, more than most senators" commercial in the battleground states and he'll be fine. McCain is respected but he's not personable. He's not the kind of guy that gets people to jump off the couch and go vote for him. He's a Kerry'esque candidate.

I said it in the other thread but it got buried. I am genuinely sad for Mccain. I liked Mccain in 2000 and 2004. And you can see that Mccain trying to seep out and then it gets stamped down by Rovian tactics and talking points. There parts of his speech tonight that I was like, ok tell me more then suddenly he turned to blaming, mocking, and misrepresenting. His heart wasn't in it AND IT SHOWED. I felt sad.

I guess that's the great irony of this campaign, the republicans did pick a maverick then made him conform to what they think America needs, not him making the republicans conform to what he thinks America needs. In so doing Mccain stopped being his own man, and ironically if he had stuck to his guns he might've not survived the primary, but he would be a MUCH bigger threat in the election.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

What a jackass comment to make in TWO speeches. Both Guilliani and Palin got in on the mockery. And it wasn't just the words, but the crowd's reaction that sealed the deal.

Nobody here is misinterpreting things. Those words weren't accidental.

It's not the words, it's the way she said them. We knew the line ages in advance, it didn't come off as anything but a petty remark. But the damn way she delivered them was just unbelievably condescending.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Huck is charismatic . . . but he is an insane fundamentalist.

The thing is, he comes across as a reasonable guy; as if you could have a reasoned debate with him without him all going fundie on you.

On TDS, he basically flat out said that the most of that was for show. It's like he knows the difference between politics the game and politics the, you know, actual important stuff.

 

[scitek]

And she (the country) believes it. It happens over and over again, yet she still believes. How many times can we take this beating before we've had enough?

Well, the president before the current one wasn't from the GOP, and the congress was overturned in 2006, so...I don't get what you mean... The last election was won on the bullshit fearmongering about terrorism that the Republicans were able to con the American public into believing. This time around, the economy is the issue at hand, I think the Dems have a golden opportunity here, but I'm not sold that the enough people will actually turn out and vote this time around to put Obama over the top. I thought Kerry had it wrapped up four years ago because of how much hate Bush was getting.

 

[DEO3]

Thank God the conventions are finally over. Jesus Christ PoliGaf, get some sleep.

 

[speculawyer]

The gold standard is a really good idea. I did a lot of reading on fiat currency, inflation and the Fed in college, and it really is the best part of the Libertopian platform [/derail]

It is out-dated and impractical at this point. You can argue it WAS a good idea, but it is gone and you can't bring it back.

 

[HylianTom]

Even Nevada would do the trick.

Yup. Obama only needs to get to 269, and Nevada would get us there.

 

[speculawyer]

The thing is, he comes across as a reasonable guy; as if you could have a reasoned debate with him without him all going fundie on you.

Definitely . . . when I listen to him, I like him.

And then I hear his policies and thoughts and I think "This guy is fucking insane."

 

[ronito]

Definitely . . . when I listen to him, I like him.

And then I hear his policies and thoughts and I think "This guy is fucking insane."

You're such a liar. He didn't even talk about his policies.

 

[RurouniZel]

Well, the president before the current one wasn't from the GOP, and the congress was overturned in 2006, so...I don't get what you mean... The last election was won on the bullshit fearmongering about terrorism that the Republicans were able to con the American public into believing. This time around, the economy is the issue at hand, I think the Dems have a golden opportunity here, but I'm not sold that the enough people will actually turn out and vote this time around to put Obama over the top. I thought Kerry had it wrapped up four years ago because of how much hate Bush was getting.

This is exactly what I'm getting at though. Bush was hated because he was a horrible president, but all he had to do was say "The next 4 years'll be better, promise" and America suddenly forgave him and gave him another 4. And the beating only got worse. And I fear it could happen all over again.

 

[Atrus]

Not trying to stir the pot, I was just wondering if I could donate.

Oddly enough an Alberta man managed to donate $500 to Obama's campaign, as per the daily Metro. Didn't mention whether or not the campaign detected it or not.

Strange thing is that even though one can't directly support a candidate as a foreigner, it seems like just about anyone can buy political 'memorabilia' and fund the campaign through secondary sources which are aplenty.

So long as you have a US account you are effectively an American online shopper, and if you aren't careful you can accidentally donate campaign funds through these secondary sources.

 

[speculawyer]

Not that much better
.

(neutral) RapeApe
Member
(Today, 09:09 PM)
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[Fatalah]

I just watched the Bill O'Reilly interview with Obama.

O'Reilly treated Barack like he was a felon. I can't believe the lack of respect he just exuded. Unbelievable.

 

[Gaborn]

Yup. Obama only needs to get to 269, and Nevada would get us there.

Check the Senate makeup again. In the event of a tie the house picks (isn't it the VP?) and the Senate picks the (President if the first was right). Lieberman is caucusing with the Democrats right now but if he gets to vote it won't be for Obama (and Cheney casts the tie breaker)

 

[VanMardigan]

The thing is, he comes across as a reasonable guy; as if you could have a reasoned debate with him without him all going fundie on you.

On TDS, he basically flat out said that the most of that was for show. It's like he knows the difference between politics the game and politics the, you know, actual important stuff.

I think Huck gets a bad rap because of his religious fervor, and some REALLY stupid things he did and said as Governor. Still, I think he's a more reasonable person now and I certainly would rather him be the next Republican front-runner rather than Romney.

All this "OMG I'LL MOVE" talk is extremely premature.

And retarded.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

"Tonight, John McCain said that his party was elected to change Washington, but that they let Washington change them," Obama spokesman Bill Burton said in a statement. "He's right. He admonished the 'old, do-nothing crowd' in Washington, but ignored the fact that he's been part of that crowd for twenty-six years, opposing solutions on health care, energy, and education. He talked about bipartisanship, but didn't mention that he's been a Bush partisan 90% of the time, that he's run a Karl Rove campaign, and that he wants to continue this President's disastrous economic and foreign policies for another four years. With John McCain, it's more of the same."

"That's not the change Americans need. Barack Obama has taken on the special interests and the lobbyists in Illinois and in Washington, and he's won. As President, he'll cut taxes for 95% of all working families, provide affordable health care to every American, end the tax breaks for companies that ship our jobs overseas, and eliminate the oil we import from the Middle East in ten years."

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/04/1352305.aspx

 

[BoboBrazil]

Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton released the following statement in response to McCain's speech:

“Tonight, John McCain said that his party was elected to change Washington, but that they let Washington change them. He’s right. He admonished the ‘old, do-nothing crowd’ in Washington, but ignored the fact that he’s been part of that crowd for twenty-six years, opposing solutions on health care, energy, and education. He talked about bipartisanship, but didn’t mention that he’s been a Bush partisan 90% of the time, that he’s run a Karl Rove campaign, and that he wants to continue this President’s disastrous economic and foreign policies for another four years. With John McCain, it’s more of the same.

“That’s not the change Americans need. Barack Obama has taken on the special interests and the lobbyists in Illinois and in Washington, and he’s won. As President, he’ll cut taxes for 95% of all working families, provide affordable health care to every American, end the tax breaks for companies that ship our jobs overseas, and eliminate the oil we import from the Middle East in ten years,” said Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton.

 

[Zeliard]

Well, the president before the current one wasn't from the GOP, and the congress was overturned in 2006, so...I don't get what you mean... The last election was won on the bullshit fearmongering about terrorism that the Republicans were able to con the American public into believing. This time around, the economy is the issue at hand, I think the Dems have a golden opportunity here, but I'm not sold that the enough people will actually turn out and vote this time around to put Obama over the top. I thought Kerry had it wrapped up four years ago because of how much hate Bush was getting.

Obama is considerably more popular, well-liked and respected than Kerry was, and that combined with four extra years of Bush administration fuck-ups (and four more potential years of staunch right-wing rule) pretty much guarantees that the tide will turn. Obama's also been vetted throughout the entire campaign and is pretty much immune to swiftboating now.

 

[Lesath]

Interesting; she has her father's face. So I wonder: will she age like John McCain?

 

[velvet_nitemare]

And Obama just unleashed Clinton on Palin, she might literally kill her

Wait, what?

Has Clinton weighed in on Palin yet?

 

[HylianTom]

Check the Senate makeup again. In the event of a tie the house picks (isn't it the VP?) and the Senate picks the (President if the first was right). Lieberman is caucusing with the Democrats right now but if he gets to vote it won't be for Obama (and Cheney casts the tie breaker)

Wrong-o.

Each state delegation in the House gets a vote.

 

[Gaborn]

Wrong-o.

Each state delegation in the House gets a vote.

In the event of a tie one chamber picks the president and one picks the VP.

Edit - oops I'm wrong. I could've SWORN that was the process, gah, need to brush up on that.

Edit 2 - Ok, I was right although that was for VP, not President.

 

[Stinkles]

I just watched the Bill O'Reilly interview with Obama.

O'Reilly treated Barack like he was a felon. I can't believe the lack of respect he just exuded. Unbelievable.

WHY CAN'T YOU JUST ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG!!!!!

 

[Stoney Mason]

Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton released the following statement in response to McCain's speech:

“Tonight, John McCain said that his party was elected to change Washington, but that they let Washington change them. He’s right. He admonished the ‘old, do-nothing crowd’ in Washington, but ignored the fact that he’s been part of that crowd for twenty-six years, opposing solutions on health care, energy, and education. He talked about bipartisanship, but didn’t mention that he’s been a Bush partisan 90% of the time, that he’s run a Karl Rove campaign, and that he wants to continue this President’s disastrous economic and foreign policies for another four years. With John McCain, it’s more of the same.

“That’s not the change Americans need. Barack Obama has taken on the special interests and the lobbyists in Illinois and in Washington, and he’s won. As President, he’ll cut taxes for 95% of all working families, provide affordable health care to every American, end the tax breaks for companies that ship our jobs overseas, and eliminate the oil we import from the Middle East in ten years,” said Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton.

Mccain loves to trot out that "We came to change Washington line and Washington changed us" line. I never quite understand how that is supposed to be a positive and how I'm supposed to think a Mccain presidency would be any different.

 

[twinturbo2]

I found this on Pandagon...
http://twitter.com/FakeSarahPalin

Moose-hunting. The wave of the future. Srsly

And I've gutted a moose with my pinky, I'll tell you wha

Drill baby drill! Drill b— NO NOT YOU LEVI

:lol

 

[Fragamemnon]

Also, the delegations used in a 269 split would be the NEW congress, not the current one.

The GOP is looking at significant losses this fall in that regard. Honestly, I'm shocked that they are doing so little to help bail out some of their candidates there.

 

[DY_nasty]

Wait, what?

Has Clinton weighed in on Palin yet?

This. I want to see THIS.

 

[GhaleonEB]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/04/1352305.aspx

Better than last night's response.

 

[aceface]

Ron Paul's appearance on the colbert report was very strong as usual, and as usual he showed why he'd be a better nominee for the Republicans (and someone I could actually vote for) rather than John McCain.

With that said, I thought McCain was very effective tonight, he was pretty obviously overshadowed by Palin, but he was pretty moving and effective even while not saying much he tried to invoke some strong imagery and I thought it was very useful. Also striking to me was the difference between him and Bush in his speeches. Often critics pointed out that Bush never asked the country to "do" something (one of Bush's better qualities if you ask me). At the same time McCain's speech was ABOUT service. I'm not sure he convinced a lot of people but the rhetorical contrast with Bush was striking at least.

I have to say that the POW stuff was pretty powerful. At least if McCain gets elected I'll actually respect the guy unlike Bush. I'll disagree with everything he does, but I'll respect him. Palin on the other hand...well let's just say I hope McCain lives as long as his mom.

 

[GhaleonEB]

This. I want to see THIS.

She's going to on Monday, IIRC, in Florida. She put out a statement tonight:

“The two party conventions showcased vastly different directions for our country. Senator Obama and Senator Biden offered the new ideas and positive change America needs and deserves after eight years of failed Republican leadership. Senator McCain and Governor Palin did not.

“After listening to all of the speeches this week, I heard nothing that suggests the Republicans are ready to fix the economy for middle class families, provide quality affordable health care for all Americans, guarantee equal pay for equal work for women, restore our nation's leadership in a complex world or tackle the myriad of challenges our country faces.

“So, to slightly amend my comments from Denver: NO WAY, NO HOW, NO McCAIN-PALIN.”

 

[numble]

Check the Senate makeup again. In the event of a tie the house picks (isn't it the VP?) and the Senate picks the (President if the first was right). Lieberman is caucusing with the Democrats right now but if he gets to vote it won't be for Obama (and Cheney casts the tie breaker)

Check the Constitution.

Article 2 Section 1

The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; a quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two-thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice-President.) (

 

[AniHawk]

She's going to on Monday, IIRC, in Florida. She put out a statement tonight:

Blades will bleed.

 

[Gaborn]

I have to say that the POW stuff was pretty powerful. At least if McCain gets elected I'll actually respect the guy unlike Bush. I'll disagree with everything he does, but I'll respect him. Palin on the other hand...well let's just say I hope McCain lives as long as his mom.

Whether you like or hate either of them I think they were both pretty effective for the most part. Palin's speech was stronger than McCain's because the base wanted that red meat and she was better in delivering it than anyone expected I think.

 

[twinturbo2]

Even better...
http://twitter.com/FakeJohnMcCain

I AM NOT ANGRY YOU GODDAMN LITTLE COMMIE PUNK

So how bout Sarah's speech, huh? Huh? SUCK ON THAT BARACK bwahahaaaaaa *cough*

 

[AniHawk]

Check the Constitution.

Article 2 Section 1

The fuck? "choose" was once spelled as "chuse"?

 

[CharlieDigital]

Definitely . . . when I listen to him, I like him.

And then I hear his policies and thoughts and I think "This guy is fucking insane."

I checked his wiki. I don't know about his stance on gay rights or abortion - I can only guess based on his background, but it seems like he actually did some good:

Socialism?

In late 1996, Huckabee campaigned for ballot Amendment 1, a plan to adjust property tax rules to make school funding more equal across the state, and Amendment 2, a constitutional amendment increasing the state sales tax 0.125 percent to improve the state's park system and natural resources.[30][31][32]As part of the campaign, Huckabee traveled the entire length of the Arkansas River within Arkansas by boat.

Preaching tolerance?

Huckabee proclaimed 1997 as a year of racial reconciliation by saying "Let every one of us make it our priority to bring reconciliation, not so much that we can force it or legislate it, because we cannot, but that we begin in each of our own lives to purpose in our hearts that we will not harbor anger, hostility, prejudice, bigotry and racism toward any person."

Health insurance for lower-income families?

Huckabee signed legislation to create a health insurance program which extended coverage to children of lower-income families, to be funded in part by Medicaid, SCHIP, and a tobacco industry lawsuit settlement.[36]

Financial responsibility?

On April 1, 1999, Huckabee signed into law a three cent increase in tax on gasoline and a four cent increase on diesel.[60] Attached to the bill was a bond issue to pay for highway construction.

Down right fucking reasonable

On April 11, 2003 Huckabee signed a law which mandates annual body mass index (BMI) measurements for all public school children. The results are reported to parents with information about how to combat obesity. The law also sets up advisory committees to promote exercise and good nutrition for schools.

Seriously!

In opening remarks among Hispanic civil rights leaders at a LULAC convention, Huckabee said the nation will need to address the concerns of the Hispanic community because of its growing influence and population base. "Pretty soon, Southern white guys like me may be in the minority," Huckabee said jokingly as the crowd roared in laughter. He told the LULAC delegates that their presence in the state's capital city was very important because Arkansas has one of the fastest growing Hispanic populations in the nation. "Your gathering is so very significant for our state," Huckabee said.

Basically, aside from any of the crazy religious stuff, he is a Republican that many independents and even some Dems could vote for.

 

[Guts Of Thor]

Also, the delegations used in a 269 split would be the NEW congress, not the current one.

The GOP is looking at significant losses this fall in that regard. Honestly, I'm shocked that they are doing so little to help bail out some of their candidates there.

Here in New Mexico they've pulled all funds from the Republican Steve Pearce.