balladofwindfishes
Member
I wish MSNBC was a liberal propaganda machine lol. The Democrats don't really have any consistent, hard left, extremely dedicated news network akin to Fox News.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
RNC suspending GOP Feb '16 debate with NBC (Because lol CNBC)
- Thread starter Black Republican
- Start date
- Status
I wish MSNBC was a liberal propaganda machine lol. The Democrats don't really have any consistent, hard left, extremely dedicated news network akin to Fox News.
OuterLimits
Member
Actually quite a few aren't. I'm reading a fair amount of comments on here saying the questions were fair.
If you were a Republican would you want to go on at network again after the last debate?
Btw, I agree they are using this to score political points as well.
I only caught a bit of it where they just laid out actual stuff and had them try to defend it. I liked them having to squirm.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Debate was a total clusterfuck.
Oh, so we are gonna go down the road of this tired false equivalency nonsense?
Exactly what is the ultimate point of this post though?
Even if we just assume what you infer is 100% true and they are equal but on different sides of the political spectrum, what relevance does this have to the point I made? Are Republicans planning on going onto MSNBC soon or something?
Chie Satonaka
Member
Ben Carson isn't going to have to deal with the fact that he was a spokesman for a shady snake oil company, and he won't have to deal with the fact that he fucking lied about it.
Because of this.
"Waaah, liburul media" is preventing real, actual issues being discussed.
Because of this.
"Waaah, liburul media" is preventing real, actual issues being discussed.
Lex always gets the better of Brainiac tho
Can't perplex the Lex.
lol, this tired bullshit is still being trotted out. fucking childish.
I think the questions could have been better, but again, if anything they were too easy on the candidates and allowed them to escape substantive discussion by attacking the media instead.
Why wouldn't you want to go back on CNBC if you were Ted Cruz or Ben Carson? You can just say stuff that contradicts your website, blame the media for being liars, and get away with it with big cheers from the audience. Sounds ideal to me. What's the problem?
OuterLimits
Member
Seriously? I would consider Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Chris Mathew, All Sharpton firmly on the left. Maybe not far left, but I wouldn't consider Fox News far right either. Most on the far right consider Fox News to be more friendly to mainstream Republicans and not the Tea Party types.
Grover Cleveland
Member
I mean, they're right tho.
CNBC had a clear agenda set up to make the Republican candidates look like bozos and clowns on live TV.
And they can surely do that themselves without the moderators setting them up to fail!
But really though, this is part of the process to nominate one of the two major candidates for President of the United States. Kind of a serious deal. The candidates all should deserve a proper platform to explain their ideas and beliefs for their campaigns. Not fending debate hosts.
CNBC had a clear agenda set up to make the Republican candidates look like bozos and clowns on live TV.
And they can surely do that themselves without the moderators setting them up to fail!
But really though, this is part of the process to nominate one of the two major candidates for President of the United States. Kind of a serious deal. The candidates all should deserve a proper platform to explain their ideas and beliefs for their campaigns. Not fending debate hosts.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Honestly, it's hard to have anything but a shitshow with that many candidates and one of those is Donald Trump.
I mean, Hillary's general election ads just write themselves at this point.
"I withstood 11 hours of politicized questions from a Republican led sham committee hearing.
Mr. GOP-Nominee and his party couldn't stand the heat of a two hour debate with relatively softball questions.
Who do you want in a room doing tough negotiations with Iran and Middle East dictators?"
"I withstood 11 hours of politicized questions from a Republican led sham committee hearing.
Mr. GOP-Nominee and his party couldn't stand the heat of a two hour debate with relatively softball questions.
Who do you want in a room doing tough negotiations with Iran and Middle East dictators?"
Chie Satonaka
Member
Why do you keep harping on this point?
You do understand that CNBC and MSNBC are not the same network, right?
Fair and good are two different things. I think almost everyone has said that overall the moderators weren't very good but a number of the questions were completely fair IMO. I would even argue they were too softball for much of the debate.
Can you give me some examples of the unfair questions? The biggest one the GOP pointed to was the "comic book" question but in total context the exchange seemed just fine to me. It was a poor joke but it was actually effective at getting Trump to have to defend the claim that there was no substance behind his plan. To which Harwood kept pressing. Overall, in context, I think the exchange was actually tough but fair. It wasn't ideal or great from a moderator perspective but I suspect had he been even tougher the crying from the GOP would of been even worse and we would still get this letter of GOP whining.
Well, it depends on how you define your continuum. Since the GOP has moved so much further to the right than the Democrats have moved to the left, Fox News probably doesn't look that far right to the right end of the GOP. But compared to, say, the rest of the world, or to America ten years ago, Fox News today would be pretty far right, whereas MSNBC is still mid-left.
I think the RNC and Priebus is just trying to save their asses with a decision that's more of a threat that will be inevitably reversed. This is just going to be the narrative for the next week and a half until the next debate goes smoothly and things go back to normal.
But CNBC was half right and half wrong on this situation though. They asked some decent questions, but apparently failed to meet the agreed terms of the debate with things like the first question being agreed prior to the debate to be centered around the economy.
Their moderators were shitbags because of either incompetency or negligence in a lot of situations. Questions shouldn't be phrased like this:
TL;DR: CNBC half-assed it and Republicans are using it to score points with the far reaches of their base for the next few weeks and will probably chill out by the end of the next debate.
But CNBC was half right and half wrong on this situation though. They asked some decent questions, but apparently failed to meet the agreed terms of the debate with things like the first question being agreed prior to the debate to be centered around the economy.
Their moderators were shitbags because of either incompetency or negligence in a lot of situations. Questions shouldn't be phrased like this:
- "Is this a comic book version of a presidential campaign?"
- "They say you act like you hate your job, do you?"... "Well, do you hate your job?"
- "You want to bring 70,000 pages to three?".... " Is that using really small type?"... "Is that using really small type?"
- "So you don't want the coach to put you in any more?"
TL;DR: CNBC half-assed it and Republicans are using it to score points with the far reaches of their base for the next few weeks and will probably chill out by the end of the next debate.
Jeb's gotta like that this storyline is somewhat displacing his bad night from the headlines..
OuterLimits
Member
You do realize I was answering a statement by a person saying they wished MSNBC was more liberal right?
His donors aren't forgetting this. There's rumblings on twitter that a major one is pulling support soon.
I think the RNC and Priebus is just trying to save their asses with a decision that's more of a threat that will be inevitably reversed. This is just going to be the narrative for the next week and a half until the next debate goes smoothly and things go back to normal.
But CNBC was half right and half wrong on this situation though. They asked some decent questions, but apparently failed to meet the agreed terms of the debate with things like the first question being agreed prior to the debate to be centered around the economy.
Their moderators were shitbags because of either incompetency or negligence in a lot of situations. Questions shouldn't be phrased like this:
Anderson Cooper asked some tough questions, but was at least respectful of it. CNBC just came off as douches at times. You also had geniuses like John Harwood:
- "Is this a comic book version of a presidential campaign?"
- "They say you act like you hate your job, do you?"... "Well, do you hate your job?"
- "You want to bring 70,000 pages to three?".... " Is that using really small type?"... "Is that using really small type?"
- "So you don't want the coach to put you in any more?"
TL;DR: CNBC half-assed it and Republicans are using it to score points with the far reaches of their base for the next few weeks and will probably chill out by the end of the next debate.
I don't know. I find it fairly disingenuous for any of these candidates - particularly the non-establishment ones the likes of Trump, Carson, etc. - to be enraged at any kind of non-serious tone to a debate when the material and proposals coming out of these candidates are laughable, xenophobic, and outright ridiculous.
I mean, does anyone that uses Hitler metaphors with abandon have any right to complain about gotcha questions?
EatinOlives
Member
CNBC's moderators asked some real dumb questions. Shit like "Donald Trump, is your campaign a comic book version of a presidential campaign??" CNBC were at first somewhat strict on the timekeeping, then were like "fuck it" in the second half. The moderators frequently interrupted each other to ask their own follow-up questions.
However, the candidates aren't completely free of blame in the shitshow. For instance, Trump and Carson flat out lied about shit that CNBC was asking them about. Cruz went on a partially-canned rant about Evil Librul Media and the base ate it all up. The crowd started acting like they were on WWE loudly booing questions they didn't like, giving candidates an out to just not answer.
So yeah, CNBC did have some shitty moderating. But it's laughable the RNC wants to cancel the NBC debate. It's just more fodder for the "librul media" whining. The RNC, of course, is not doing anything to address the fact that their candidates are flat out fucking lying on national TV. They're all innocent poor victims subjected to the evil torture of mainstream media or some shit.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
CNBC seemed to ask questions about the math of their economics plans as well and the answers were basically 2+2=5 because I said so.
Despite what outer limits wants you to believe, none of those candidates up there wants to have substantive policy wonk types of debates. They just want to hammer the talking points into impressionable viewers.
If you're producing audience sympathy for old man Huckabee, you're doing something wrong.
I think you have to look at the bigger picture here. I doubt any candidate on that stage, truly 100% believes that the questions were "gotcha" questions
except for that idiot Huckabee and the ever-so grumpy Rand Paul
They're just doing what you do in a primary debate which is playing to your base. The "liberal media" bullshit is just a political buzz phrase that gets the more extreme elements of the Republican party riled up in the same vein that "vast right-wing conspiracy" was thrown around during the Clinton era and the same reason Obama occasionally starts to complain about the media.
It isn't to actually make a fucking point. It's to score points and rile up your base.
because their secretly pussies and need to project the veneer of strength.
Chie Satonaka
Member
You've been talking about MSNBC this whole time.
I'm asking you what does MSNBC have to do with CNBC? I'm not going to say that you're wrong about MSNBC leaning left, but CNBC does not, and it seems like you're conflating the two.
Frankly I think some of the questions could of been better but the debate was literally the GOP bitching about the "librul" media and "gotcha" questions then complaining they aren't being asked substantive questions when every time they tried to ask substantive questions or called bullshit they dodged, lied and cried bias/gotcha. It was farcical.
Maybe the questions were shit but your job in a debate is still to answer them. Not go on an unrelated rant about liberal conspiracy theories and crying about the question.
EatinOlives
Member
Exactly. CNBC had some pretty good questions and follow-ups regarding specifics of their economic plans, and as expected the answers were a bunch of "NO NO WAIT THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID" and dodging the questions.
The problem is that those questions and exchanges were buried under a bunch of BS from both the moderators and the candidates. The post-debate narrative is now about how bad CNBC was overall that nobody's talking about 1) candidates flat out lying, 2) dodging, handwaving, and backpedaling on the few questions asking specifics of their economic plans.
Yep. Bunch of hypocrites. They whine about the questions being insubstantial but had no qualms about dodging the questions asking for economic plan specifics. Christie's diet racist bullshit about Obama "disrespecting police officers" is laughable considering in the same debate he also whined about "not talking about the real issues".
OuterLimits
Member
Fair point. I agree if looking on a world scale you are right. I am looking at it simply as it exists in America and what defines right and left in our country. Although I would say Bernie Sanders except for his stance on guns would fit in well on the world stage.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
CNBC: The only liberal network that has the distinction of having Rick Santelli (creator of the tea party) and Larry Kudlow (the standard bearer for supply side economics) as their biggest stars.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
Thanks I was looking for a highlight reel haha.
Heres the NPR On Point discussion about the debate, worth listening to and takes up the first part of the show:
http://onpoint.wbur.org/2015/10/30/paul-ryan-john-boehner-cnbc-debate
http://onpoint.wbur.org/2015/10/30/paul-ryan-john-boehner-cnbc-debate
OuterLimits
Member
The Democrats avoid all Fox networks including Fox Business for debates. In all honesty, I would as well if I was the DNC. The GOP had distanced itself from MSNBC but was still willing to go on other NBC stations like their financial CNBC.
After this debate, the GOP is saying screw it to NBC in general it seems. Not sure I blame them. Or they would have to insist on different moderators next time. They think it better to just ignore them completely now.
Btw, I did say earlier that they are also using it to score political points. They would be foolish not to in a political sense.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Rubio is very intelligent, but you can't trust a snake.
Officerrob
Banned
Whining about CNBC moderators while campaigning on strength and standing-up to Putin... OK
The moderators were not good, but even when asked reasonable questions they either lied or didn't answer.
The moderators were not good, but even when asked reasonable questions they either lied or didn't answer.
Fenderputty
Banned
Honestly this seems like a sign that whoever comes out of this won't fair well on the national debate stage when their opponent can call them on lies.
Fox Business and Fox News are propaganda channels that occasionally reports news. Albeit always with an agenda and aimed toward clear, agreed upon political goals.
MSNBC is a left leaning news organization that often gives liberal voices with an agenda prime air time.
NBC, CNBC are NOT MSNBC. CNBC in fact is overall a fairly conservative organization that is very Wall Street influenced. NBC news is a fairly mainstream news organization like ABC and CBS. They are not equivalent. They aren't even really connected other then name and occasional schedule cohesion with things like the Olympics.
OuterLimits
Member
Most of them actually answered the questions. Including Trump with the comic book and Huckabee on if Trump has moral authority. Cruz did avoid a legit question to slam the moderators though. He did answer it later I believe.
You can ask tough questions without being ridiculous. Btw this was supposed to be an economic debate. How is asking Huckabee about moral authority related?
Haunted
Member
those are softball questions, have a look outside the US to see the (uncomfortably difficult) questions real politicians have to answer instead of this circus bullshit
that said and specifically about trump: I can see that respectable journalists have a hard time taking someone like him seriously, trump's policies have about as much legitimacy as those of the bearded guy with the boot on his head I see during every presidential campaign lineup
the palin comparisons aren't too far off the mark, caricatures of real people that you wouldn't actually want in a position of authority or responsibility propped up by big money behind them
Trump, Cruz, Carson, Bush and Christie all got pushed to answer substantive questions and they pretty much all gave BS answers or even flat out lied in Carson's case. When they would get further pressed and called on their bullshit they just called bias or attacked the moderators and played to the crowd.
They didn't really answer the questions.
EatinOlives
Member
Some guy on CNN (I don't remember who) last night was whining about how the debate was done by CNBC at all. He was like "why even have the debate when nobody in the moderator team was even Republican!!"
The RNC for some stupid reason wants to perpetuate their beloved echo chamber. The candidates in the primaries just want to whine about librul media, do some fear mongering to promote wars, say some easy unsubstantiated shit about fantasy economic plans, spout diet racist bullshit against black people and foreigners, and generally shout loudly without saying anything.
But just like in 2012, their echo chamber crumbles the minute they get to the general election. More head-in-sand antics. Same shit, different toilet.
The RNC for some stupid reason wants to perpetuate their beloved echo chamber. The candidates in the primaries just want to whine about librul media, do some fear mongering to promote wars, say some easy unsubstantiated shit about fantasy economic plans, spout diet racist bullshit against black people and foreigners, and generally shout loudly without saying anything.
But just like in 2012, their echo chamber crumbles the minute they get to the general election. More head-in-sand antics. Same shit, different toilet.
- Status