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[siamesedreamer]

Moral leader? Must be another senior moment.

Maybe, but:

Iraq's major Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish parties have closed ranks to force anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr to disband his Mahdi Army militia or leave politics, lawmakers and officials involved in the effort said Sunday.

Such a bold move risks a violent backlash by al-Sadr's Shiite militia. But if it succeeds it could cause a major realignment of Iraq's political landscape.

AP

 

[APF]

As opposed to gushing praise and spin for everything Hillary has done?

In what world could that possibly be considered something I do?

 

[Dahellisdat]

In what world could that possibly be considered something I do?

That's true...you moreso bitch about obama than gush love for hillary

 

[scorcho]

so how is internal backlash against al Sadr an indicator that we need long-term engagement in Iraq, exactly?

 

[APF]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23994060/

He's nipping any question of his patriotism in the bud before the general. His campaign is basically the antithesis to John Kerry's as far as responding to attacks/insinuations.

From http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1727502,00.html

But there was still something missing. I noticed it during Obama's response to a young man who remembered how the country had come together after Sept. 11 and lamented "the dangerously low levels of patriotism and pride in our country, the loss of faith in our elected officials." Obama used this, understandably, to go after George W. Bush. "Cynicism has become the hot stock," he said, "the growth industry during the Bush Administration." He talked about the Administration's mendacity, its incompetence during Hurricane Katrina, its lack of transparency. But he never returned to the question of patriotism. He never said, "But hey, look, we're Americans. This is the greatest country on earth. We'll rise to the occasion."

This is a chronic disease among Democrats, who tend to talk more about what's wrong with America than what's right. When Ronald Reagan touted "Morning in America" in the 1980s, Dick Gephardt famously countered that it was near midnight "and getting darker all the time." This is ironic and weirdly self-defeating, since the liberal message of national improvement is profoundly more optimistic, and patriotic, than the innate conservative pessimism about the perfectibility of human nature. Obama's hopemongering is about as American as a message can get — although, in the end, it is mostly about our ability to transcend our imperfections rather than the effortless brilliance of our diversity, informality and freedom-propelled creativity.

Patriotism is, sadly, a crucial challenge for Obama now. His aides believe that the Wright controversy was more about anti-Americanism than it was about race. Michelle Obama's unfortunate comment that the success of the campaign had made her proud of America "for the first time" in her adult life and the Senator's own decision to stow his American-flag lapel pin — plus his Islamic-sounding name — have fed a scurrilous undercurrent of doubt about whether he is "American" enough.

Dahellisdat: exactly! I've actually been pretty critical of her campaign, given the fact that I overall supported her run (I haven't thought she was going to win for months now). It's just another example of an Obama supporter trying to smear his "enemies" with whatever twisted bullshit comes to his head. Shameful.

 

[Dahellisdat]

From http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1727502,00.html

Thank god we have Time to show us how to think.

 

[Dahellisdat]

Dahellisdat: exactly! I've actually been pretty critical of her campaign, given the fact that I overall supported her run (I haven't thought she was going to win for months now). It's just another example of an Obama supporter trying to smear his "enemies" with whatever twisted bullshit comes to his head. Shameful.

So.....aren't you kind of playing the character that you just crafted up posted in that time article??

 

[Keylime]

From http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1727502,00.html

So in the excerpt you posted they:

A) Say someone who is a great friend of Obama said some shit.
B) Say his wife made a statement that everyone knows is completely not about patriotism, and is about the pride of having everyone getting involved in politics again.
C) Say Obama not wearing a lapel pin means he's not patriotic to his country :lol
D) Say his name sounds Islamic...and therefore he's not American.

 

[theBishop]

Thank god we have Time to show us how to think.

You don't find this:

Patriotism is, sadly, a crucial challenge for Obama now. His aides believe that the Wright controversy was more about anti-Americanism than it was about race. Michelle Obama's unfortunate comment that the success of the campaign had made her proud of America "for the first time" in her adult life and the Senator's own decision to stow his American-flag lapel pin — plus his Islamic-sounding name — have fed a scurrilous undercurrent of doubt about whether he is "American" enough.

to be hard-hitting and insightful? :lol

I can't begin to say how happy I was that Obama dismissed the bullshit lapel pin. It has nothing to do with "Patriotism". The post-9/11 flag lapel is a symbol of complicity with the brazen abuses of power that were continue to be justified in the name of "Protecting the Homeland".

If the american people are so infantile to make jingoism a primary campaign issue, then America has much bigger problems.

 

[Slurpy]

From http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1727502,00.html




Dahellisdat: exactly! I've actually been pretty critical of her campaign, given the fact that I overall supported her run (I haven't thought she was going to win for months now). It's just another example of an Obama supporter trying to smear his "enemies" with whatever twisted bullshit comes to his head. Shameful.

You're quite the pathological liar.

 

[schuelma]

The post-9/11 flag lapel is a symbol of complicity with the brazen abuses of power that were continue to be justified in the name of "Protecting the Homeland".

.

Really..that's the ONLY thing that wearing an American flag lapel right now means? Really?

 

[APF]

You're quite the pathological liar.

Can you do anything but attack people? In any case, explain how I am a liar or kindly STFU.

 

[Slurpy]

Can you do anything but attack people? In any case, explain how I am a liar or kindly STFU.

You constantly 'attack' this entire thread and the discussion by trying to push it down the gutter. I only attack people who have proven themselves to be intellectually dishonest and disingenuous over and over again, while they refuse to engage in any real sensible discussion, and constantly misrepresenting the positions of others to make cheap trolls.
You're on the short list.

You're a liar in your assessment that you're been 'critical' of Clinton's campaign. There's really no other way to put it. Also, the majority of your posts are borderline lies, but others have done a better job pointing these point. Just saying. Don't pretend to be all offended, as there's no way that you're not quite aware of this.

 

[Tamanon]

Huh:

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/04/military_iraqwithdrawal_040208w/

Setting a withdrawal timetable from Iraq might be a shaky strategic move, but it would provide a morale boost for service members and their families, a former Army War College commandant said Wednesday.

Retired Army Maj. Gen. Robert Scales Jr., testifying before the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee about U.S. military strategy in Iraq, said he has no doubt that a major withdrawal of combat forces is coming because the U.S. has “run out of military options” and cannot indefinitely sustain troop levels.

“Regardless of who wins the election and regardless of conditions on the ground, by summer the troops will begin to come home,” said Scales, who headed the war college in 1997. “The only point of contention is how precipitous will be the withdrawal and whether the schedule of withdrawal should be a matter of administration policy.”

White House and Pentagon officials have resisted efforts by some lawmakers to set a fixed timetable for withdrawal of U.S. combat forces from Iraq, arguing that insurgents and other groups would try to use the dates to their advantage.

Scales, who was one of the creators of the Army After Next program in 1995 that helped plan for transforming the force, agreed that following a fixed withdrawal schedule “is not a good idea in an insurgency because the indigenous population tends to side with the perceived winners.”

“However, some publicly expressed window of withdrawal is necessary, for no other reason than to give soldier’s families some hope that their loved ones will not be stuck on a perpetual rollercoaster of deployments,” he said.

Scales testified along with two other retired Army generals, Gen. Barry McCaffrey and Lt. Gen. William Odom, who also agreed a withdrawal of U.S. combat troops early in the next president’s administration is inevitable.

“We face a deteriorating political situation with an over-extended Army,” said Odom, who served as director of the National Security Agency in the Reagan administration.

“The only sensible strategy is to withdraw rapidly but in good order,” Odom said. “Only that step can break the paralysis now gripping U.S. strategy in the region.”

McCaffrey, a former chief of U.S. Southern Command and commander of the 24th Infantry Division in the 1991 Gulf War, predicted a withdrawal of U.S. forces within three years or less because there is “no U.S. political will to continue” and because allies “have abandoned us.”

“It is over,” McCaffrey said.

 

[APF]

You're a liar in your assessment that you're been 'critical' of Clinton's campaign

This is factually incorrect; there's no other way to put it. However, point me to a single poster here outside of perhaps Cheebs and Ami who have been critical of Obama's campaign--or at least, critical in the sense that they're not saying Obama should attack harder. For example, demonstrate you're not a hypocrite by posting links to posts where you've been critical of Obama or his campaign staff.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Spike Lee on Obama/Clinton

What do you think of Obama?
I’m riding my man Obama. I think he’s a visionary. Actually, Barack told me the first date he took Michelle to was Do the Right Thing. I said, “Thank God I made it. Otherwise you would have taken her to Soul Man. Michelle would have been like, ‘What’s wrong with this brother?’ ”

Does this mean you’re down on the Clintons?
The Clintons, man, they would lie on a stack of Bibles. Snipers? That’s not misspeaking; that’s some pure bulls***. I voted for Clinton twice, but that’s over with. These old black politicians say, “Ooh, Massuh Clinton was good to us, massuh hired a lot of us, massuh was good!” Hoo! Charlie Rangel, David Dinkins—they have to understand this is a new day. People ain’t feelin’ that stuff. It’s like a tide, and the people who get in the way are just gonna get swept out into the ocean.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

Absolutely stupid comments on Clinton.

 

[siamesedreamer]

so how is internal backlash against al Sadr an indicator that we need long-term engagement in Iraq, exactly?

Its a good thing. I posted that in response to the story syllogism posted. There may be more to that story than what is being reported in the blog.

 

[Tamanon]

According to Drudge, Hillary is calling on Bush to boycott the Olympics opening ceremony.

Edited it as Drudge did.:lol

 

[ZealousD]

According to Drudge, Hillary is calling on Bush to boycott the Olympics.

The whole darn thing or just the opening ceremony?

 

[APF]

Slurpy: demonstrate you're not an intellectually-dishonest hypocrite by pointing to where you've praised the Clinton campaign or said they made a good point. I can post to one re: Obama's campaign from me, from as recent as last night. Seriously, the idea that you of all people would be challenging my honesty is some sort of absurdist nightmare.

 

[belvedere]

This is factually incorrect; there's no other way to put it. However, point me to a single poster here outside of perhaps Cheebs and Ami who have been critical of Obama's campaign--or at least, critical in the sense that they're not saying Obama should attack harder. For example, demonstrate you're not a hypocrite by posting links to posts where you've been critical of Obama or his campaign staff.

I think he's saying that your opinions and comments here are basically moot at this point. Simply put, you're not going to sway the opinion of any Obama supporters in this thread, yet you just keep on stirring the same ole pot.

 

[Dahellisdat]

According to Drudge, Hillary is calling on Bush to boycott the Olympics opening ceremony.

Edited it as Drudge did.:lol

That would be conceding defeat to the enemy. We're not leaving the olympics until the fight is over and we have prevailed.

 

[siamesedreamer]

“Regardless of who wins the election and regardless of conditions on the ground, by summer the troops will begin to come home,”

That's not what Petraeus is gonna say tomorrow. There are 18,000 more troops that will be out of there by July (the rest of the surge troops). After that, he's calling for a hold and see.

Edit: Unless he's talking about summer 2009?

 

[bob_arctor]

so how is internal backlash against al Sadr an indicator that we need long-term engagement in Iraq, exactly?

I guess because internal backlash against this entire war here at home means the same thing apparently.

What's Petreaus up to nowadays? Isn't he giving the Congress "straight talk" this week or something? I wonder how many times McCain will make him speak about how successful the surge was.

 

[Tamanon]

Bob Barr finalizes his announcement. He's in the race now for the Libertarian party. If he gets any press at all, it might hurt McCain, because he is definitely more conservative.

 

[APF]

I think he's saying that your opinions and comments here are basically moot at this point.

I don't think interjecting facts and reality, in combination with valid opinions, will ever be "moot," regardless of how hard-headed the audience may be. Maybe you folks need to watch that McCain ad again, or recall Obama's words about standing up for what you believe in being the highest form of patriotism.

 

[Farmboy]

16 points? Not a snowball's chance in hell.

Agreed, made a copy & paste snafu. Should have been:

Pennsylvania: 47% 53% -10 (hence the just shy of 5% comment)

 

[belvedere]

I don't think interjecting facts and reality, in combination with valid opinions, will ever be "moot," regardless of how hard-headed the audience may be. Maybe you folks need to watch that McCain ad again, or recall Obama's words about standing up for what you believe in being the highest form of patriotism.

Oh, I've seen it. When McCain does it, it's patriotic. When someone who knows Obama does it, Obama's held accountable and deemed unpatriotic.

 

[theBishop]

Really..that's the ONLY thing that wearing an American flag lapel right now means? Really?

Maybe not consciously, but that's exactly what it is. The lapel pin established a cultural standard that says if you don't conform, you're with the terrorists. It was bullshit in 2001, and its beyond the pale in 2008.

 

[Keylime]

Agreed, made a copy & paste snafu. Should have been:

Pennsylvania: 47% 53% -10 (hence the just shy of 5% comment)

What is hilarious to me is that the media is saying that PA is oh so important, and Hillary needs to win it in order to have a chance.

All true statements, but so often do they leave out the whole "she needs to win the state by over 20 points in order to remain mathematically relevant" part.

Is she wins by anything less than 20 points, she's fucking gone...but no one will paint it this way.

 

[APF]

Oh, I've seen it. When McCain does it, it's patriotic. When someone who knows Obama does it, Obama's held accountable and deemed unpatriotic.

I'm sorry you feel the need to question Obama's patriotism like that. Luckily he's hearing the concerns of people who feel he hasn't been out in front of the idea:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0408/Obama_reads_Joe_Klein.html

 

[Azih]

I'm sorry you feel the need to question Obama's patriotism like that

wat?

 

[belvedere]

I'm sorry you feel the need to question Obama's patriotism like that.

There's only one explanation for your interpretation of my comment.

You've officially lost your mind.

 

[Slurpy]

Slurpy: demonstrate you're not an intellectually-dishonest hypocrite by pointing to where you've praised the Clinton campaign or said they made a good point. I can post to one re: Obama's campaign from me, from as recent as last night. Seriously, the idea that you of all people would be challenging my honesty is some sort of absurdist nightmare.

What a clown. I never made the assertion that you have, that you've 'been critical', so I have nothing to prove. Everyone knows this isn't true in your case, and one comment does not a trend make. Anyway, I've complimented her on good strategy in the past. But I've made it known that I believe she's run a dirty campaign, my preference isn't in question.

The only difference is that I don't dwelve into bullshit and underhanded comments to attack a candidate, under 20 layers of sarcasm, as you do, and as 99% of this thread can assert that you do. You even managed to do it again to another poster before I had a chance to respond. Amazing.

One can compile a list of thousands of posts from posters reponding to your statement in complete disbelief, probably in this thread alone. What more do you want? Most in this thread believe you're a troll. So either they're all delusional, or its true. One is the more likely answer.

 

[Farmboy]

What is hilarious to me is that the media is saying that PA is oh so important, and Hillary needs to win it in order to have a chance.

All true statements, but so often do they leave out the whole "she needs to win the state by over 20 points in order to remain mathematically relevant" part.

Is she wins by anything less than 20 points, she's fucking gone...but no one will paint it this way.

Even in the worst case scenario where Obama loses four states (PA, IN, WV, KY) and both territories (Guam, PR) to Hillary by 20 points each and wins the other four states (NC, MT, OR, SD) by only 4 points each, he's still ahead by 98 pledged delegates (do the math yourself here). There are, however, a few possible popular vote counts that Hillary would win in that (extremly unlikely) scenario (see here). But since she will not win by 20 points in PA and certainly not in IN, and since Obama will do better than 4 points in NC, the popular vote is an extreme longshot as well. There's a reason the pundits are calling it for Obama.

BTW, I think Hillary may drop out after NC and IN, if she loses both. I could be wrong, though... maybe she really will drag this to the convention.

 

[scorcho]

Its a good thing. I posted that in response to the story syllogism posted. There may be more to that story than what is being reported in the blog.

i agree - this is a very good thing, but i'm not sure how this news should inspire efforts to prolong our stay in Iraq. the opposite could also be argued - that the Iraqi government has realized that they need to assert their authority and maintain a rightful monopoly on violence in the country. to use one of this Administration's talking points, the US needs to stand down as Iraqis stand up.

 

[Triumph]

Spike Lee on Obama/Clinton

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

Absolutely stupid comments on Clinton.

Actually, I think the stupid comments were on black people feeling a sense of responsibility to the Clintons over a talented young black politician that is definitely going to be the nominee. You know, like some people on this board...

 

[GhaleonEB]

 

[Funky Papa]

/hula dance

 

[APF]

What a clown. I never made the assertion that you have, that you've 'been critical', so I have nothing to prove.

Interesting. Your suggestion is that someone who professes themselves to be a certain thing needs to be held to a higher standard of behavior than someone who does not make such claims. Fascinating. Any idea where else such a belief should be applied? One that perhaps has something to do with all of this [looks at thread]?

Anyway, post those links where you praise Hillary and her campaign. You made the claim, you post the links. Or admit you're a hypocrite troll and STFU.

 

[Shirokun]

Whoa! People are coming around again!

 

[maynerd]

BOO YA!

 

[Keylime]

You might be an Obama fan if:
Gallup poll trend lines directly correlate with how erect your penis currently is.

 

[bob_arctor]

McCain: Democrats' stance on Iraq flawed

 

[GhaleonEB]

You might be an Obama fan if:
Gallup poll trend lines directly correlate with how erect your penis currently is.

It's NPD, but every day.

I find the overall trend lines interesting.

You can clearly see the Obama's Iowa win, Clinton's March 4th, then the Wright issue break and pull Obama down, then where he made his speech, and turned it around, then Hillary's sniper tales. It's like looking at the news cycles, distilled. If anything it's just a reminder of how tentative public opinion is.

 

[ratcliffja]

I take the Gallup poll with a huge grain of salt. The only numbers that really matter to me are votes and delegates.

 

[ralexand]

You might be an Obama fan if:
Gallup poll trend lines directly correlate with how erect your penis currently is.

:lol

Doesn't this contradict the early week Clinton bounce?

 

[Smiles and Cries]

:lol :lol SPIKE LEE don't ever change :lol

 

[APF]

The Best of Rivals

The opposing foreign policy teams of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama had their genesis 46 years ago in the 1962 class of diplomatic trainees at the U.S. State Department. Anthony Lake, a Wasp from Connecticut, and Richard Holbrooke, the son of European-Jewish immigrants, arrived in Washington that summer, destined to become two of the best diplomats of their generation. They became close friends and were posted together to Vietnam one year later. Lake would later sign Holbrooke's wedding certificate, and Holbrooke eventually became the godfather of one of Lake's daughters. They also became competitors, rising together in a tight orbit and shining as young stars in the Carter Administration State Department.

But in late 1992, when prime spots were being handed out under Bill Clinton, Lake had an inside track with the President-elect, while Holbrooke was an outsider. Lake snagged one of the top jobs, National Security Adviser; Holbrooke was, for a time, in danger of being shut out entirely. His friend Sandy Berger (who would later replace Lake) fought to get Holbrooke appointed ambassador to Germany.

Lake denies he cut his old friend out of the foreign policy brain trust, saying he had left town when the spoils of election victory were being divided. But the friendship seemed severed and now, with Lake serving as top foreign policy adviser to Barack Obama and Holbrooke a front runner for Secretary of State under Hillary Clinton, the two men find themselves in one of the most high-stakes competitions of their careers.

[...]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1727695,00.html

 

[v1cious]

rasmussen has him up by 10. i don't care how siamese and the like try to justify it, there's definitely a trend here. something has gone horribly wrong.