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[Drizzlehell]

At first you might think: "Oh that Drizzle, making yet another silly thread with a really far-fetched premise"

But hear me out.

Now, to get the obvious out of the way - of course I'm not talking about the quality of the graphics and the sheer scale of the spectacle. It's not even a contest here because obviously modern games simply look better and the technology behind them allows for more complexity in almost every aspect of its design.

But here is where I think the immersive aspect kinda got lost in translation. Because despite the fact that these games can create a more grandiose spectacle, I think that replacing a more focused vision with pure chaos of battle kinda desensitizes me as a player and prevents me from paying attention to the kind of details that used to be impressive about these games. Think back on what made MoH stand out amidst other first person shooters back in 1999:

• helmets popping off of enemy's heads
• enemy soldiers kicking grenades back at you
• enemy soldiers squeezing the trigger on their guns and emptying their magazines into the air as they dramatically dropped to the ground in death throes
• overall impressive AI that had the Nazis take cover, retreat, feign surrender, react to stealthy approach, etc.
• covert spy missions and shoving papers in officer's faces
• cinematic orchestral soundtrack
• realistic setting based on historical events

Of course, pretty much every modern shooter features all of those things and then some, but the difference is that while in Medal of Honor these features were the main selling points and were very prominent during the gameplay, making the experience so much more fun and memorable whenever they happened, modern games tend to be so fast and chaotic that you will most likely miss out on 99% of the detail that was put into them. In most cases all that you will be focused on are the iron sights of your gun, sprinting through the map, and getting motion sickness from all the shaky cam, motion blur, and blood splatters that show up on the screen every 2 seconds. All in the middle of a pitched battle where the constant sounds of explosions, gunfire, your squadmates and enemies constantly barking orders at each other, and a vaguely generic soundtrack mix together into an absolute cacophony of indistinguishable chaos. It's a design that does a decent enough job at recreating the chaos of battle, but I think that the overall experience kinda suffers from the sensory overload, and the fact that most war shooters of the post-Call of Duty era feature campaigns that are 100% gun porn from start to finish, doesn't help either.

It's so much more immersive and memorable when sound design is more subtle and atmospheric, and the gameplay is more focused, missions have more variety, and you can actually notice the little details that make the experience feel more believable. That's what I think makes a game like Medal of Honor still feel more immersive than many other games that came after it.

 

[Success]

No pics or gameplay to back up your point.

Don't get lazy OP.

 

[Antwix]

Never played the original but Allied Assault was fantastic. The set pieces never really had cutscenes. You were just always in the action.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

Yup, loved the original 2 games on PS1. Bloody fantastic, even the split screen multiplayer was great.

 

[MiguelItUp]

I don't even need to see footage to know exactly what you're talking about, I can see it all in my head, haha.

I don't disagree. It's wild how it feels like some older games had more attention to detail, better AI, more immersion, etc. The end result just feels like a better product, something made with more love and passion. I never really got to play Allied Assault, but I heard a TON of stories. But I played the hell out of Frontlines.

I remember when they tried to bring back MOH with the whole modern thing, it felt like a shell of everything that series was in the past. At least gameplay-wise IMO.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

OP, I think you're generally correct but it kind of goes to show you...gamers don't appreciate that stuff as much as other things. The money and time is going to more effective places.

 

[Drizzlehell]

OP, I think you're generally correct but it kind of goes to show you...gamers don't appreciate that stuff as much as other things. The money and time is going to more effective places.

I suppose so. The only problem is that those places usually tend to be cosmetic shops and battle passes, lol. And if not that, then it's amateur hour dramatic storytelling and casual "cinematic experieces"

Not always, obviously, but in a lot of the cases, it feels like.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Never played the original but Allied Assault was fantastic. The set pieces never really had cutscenes. You were just always in the action.

Allied Assault and Frontline were also great, fair point. They had graphics that were just advanced enough to allow for something more epic but they also maintained that innovation of the previous games by retaining mission variety and focus on the immersive details.

 

[Drizzlehell]

No pics or gameplay to back up your point.

Don't get lazy OP.

I actually tried to find some compilation on YouTube but all that's available are longplays, so idk. Feel free to watch those if you really don't believe me, lol.

 

[SHA]

True, many psone and 2 games were actually like that, I don't care what others saying, ps3 is different, everything about it is different except a few number of games.

 

[Dr_Salt]

If you mean AAA then yea but games like rising storm/red orchestra, post scriptum and hell let lose give you that WW2 feeling anxiety included.

 

[Aesius]

It's not an absurd take. The original MoH on PS1 is dripping with atmosphere and tension. In fact, I'd put it in my top 10 most atmospheric games EVER.

To me, it captured the spirit of World War 2 more than large battle sequence in any other game. Sneaking around behind enemy lines, fighting Nazis in small groups or just 1v1, hearing the distant sounds of gunfire and German military chatter.

The fact that the entire game takes place at night or indoors also helps obfuscate the terrible graphics and pop-in.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I suppose so. The only problem is that those places usually tend to be cosmetic shops and battle passes, lol. And if not that, then it's amateur hour dramatic storytelling and casual "cinematic experieces"

Not always, obviously, but in a lot of the cases, it feels like.

Medal of Honor came out in 1999.
Battle Passes and cosmetic shops in the FPS genre became popular ~2018.

There's a 20 year gap that saw little to no improvement in the "immersive war elements" area.

 

[ProgenitorCastle]

I believe it. Older games had a way of being simpler than most later games yet more...timeless, immersive, more fun

 

[ComputerBlue]

The early Medal of Honor games were really good, but EA couldn’t help themselves.

 

[Games of Today]

You're not wrong. And I pretty much agree with you.

But things only got better from here. If we're strictly talking about WWII or games about actual battles, they peaked basically around Call of Duty 2's mission at Pont Du Hoc and susequent Normandy missions with the last death throws happening with the culmination of CoD: World at War and only some immersive instances being matched by Medal of Honor: 2010 about the War in Afghanistan.

Unfortunately most gamers just looked away from Medal of Honor: 2010 calling it generic and this ended up simply killing the franchise after the (still pretty cool) worse sequel that while being based on certain Navy Seal encounters through the years, wasn't based solely on an actual battle.

Now, sadly CoD still thrives with campaigns are mostly ass, outside of Infinite Warfare's which I will defend to my death.

And there's no current hope for future, military themed, campaign focused games.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Never played the original but Allied Assault was fantastic. The set pieces never really had cutscenes. You were just always in the action.

No cutscenes and you're in control? Gaming at its best.

 

[GymWolf]

You are not wrong but those games were a novelty, today you are just used to good graphic, immersion, small details and shit, but medal of honor was incredible by the time it was released.

The first medal of honor made me the psycho obsessed with good hit reactions, death animations and IA that i'm today (killzone 2 completed the job)

 

[SlimySnake]

Nah, BF1 topped this.

Only in MP though.

 

[GymWolf]

Nah, BF1 topped this.

Only in MP though.

Great use of colors to make everything more realistic.

 

[SlimySnake]

This is the start of every single round in BF1's Operations mode. It's insane how DICE completely nailed the insane battlefield charge only to abandon it in the very next game.

 

[havoc00]

Didnt Steven Spielberg have a big part in the first one?

 

[adamsapple]

The PS1 Medal of Honor games were incredible back in the day.

 

[havoc00]

The PS1 Medal of Honor games were incredible back in the day.

I will never forgive them for Warfighter, what a piece of shit

 

[ryzen1]

Man you haven't played Brothers in Arms

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

MoH on PS1 were great games. Very enjoyable campaign and also had some cool stealth and disguise missions.

Don’t play the last two games.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Nah, BF1 topped this.

Only in MP though.

BF1 was the first Battlefield title to use photogrammetry I think (I know that DICE used it on SW:BF 1 prior to this but it was a first for Battlefield). Was mind blown by the fidelity on display and went to pick up a GTX 1070 shortly after the game's launch to enjoy those eye melting visuals. Probably the last Battlefield game I thoroughly enjoyed.

Oh and I always loved that lady announcer saying that we lost objective butters. XD

 

[Killer8]

What you're describing is just attention to detail. It is a separate thing from mere 'graphics', because some actual thought and programming needed to go into implementing these little touches. And at the end of the day, it's these things that separate the memorable from the forgettable. We can have a lovely looking photo-realistic environment, but it often means very little if it's just a static set for the player character to run around.

Many older games seemed to place a greater importance on embellishing their environments with these clever touches, for example how ice cubes in Metal Gear Solid 2 actually melt. I'd say environmental storytelling also falls under this umbrella, due to the multi-disciplinary approach of visuals, gameplay and storytelling needed to pull it off well.

The dilemma for developers is that it does take time to do things like this, and that would come at the detriment of the surface level 'graphics', which let's face it is often the main selling point. It's just a shame as i'd much rather have a worse looking but more interactive game.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Never played the original but Allied Assault was fantastic. The set pieces never really had cutscenes. You were just always in the action.

Loved it and still to this day play that invasion in Hell Let Loose

 

[Drizzlehell]

Nah, BF1 topped this.

Only in MP though.

Okay, you got me there. DICE's games always had an incredible sound design and visuals. It seems like they don't get enough praise for it.

Man you haven't played Brothers in Arms

I didn't, actually. Should I?

 

[ryzen1]

I didn't, actually. Should I?

By that time, hell yeah.
If I think of a WW2 shooter, Brothers in Arms pops up in my head.
I have always felt that BiA is a more immersive experience than MoH

 

[Myths]

This theme man….

I expect no less from Michael though.

 

[flying_sq]

It's a great game, so is Allied Assault, but I have always had a soft spot for Brothers in Arms series. It was a much more personal story that stuck with me more than any other WW2 shooter.

 

[Batiman]

I’d say brothers in arms was better for that

 

[dcx4610]

I agree. Medal of Honor felt pretty respectful and more like simulation where Call of Duty quickly went into GI Joe/dudebro territory.

Battlefield 1 reminded me a lot of Medal of Honor which is cool. That opening was awesome.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The sound design was second to none back then as well. I remember a buddy and I would play online on the PC, and we would sit in a bell tower taunting in German while the taunts echoed across the map. Then the sounds of the projectiles buzzing by your head as you were almost sniped with headphones on. Good times.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I was kind of scared when I first played the original. It felt realistic, at the time. So I agree with the OP.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Isn't this just because of nostalgia?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Isn't this just because of nostalgia?

Nope.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

What's the one where late game you start fighting dogs riding tractors and they can use blammers? Was it Underground?

 

[Johnny Concrete]

The first CoD was also pretty grounded. In fact, it was clear MoH was inspired by Saving Private Ryan while CoD was trying to be Band of Brothers.

I agree with your take that enemy AI doesn’t even matter since their maximum screen time nowadays is about 3 seconds.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Yeah, Battlefield 1 was definitely the most recent game I've played they really captured a lot of that magic. I was really curious about Hell Let Loose, but was hesitant when there were performance issues. But then they got better, and now they're having another meltdown because Team17 bought the IP and aren't giving the community what they want. Hopefully it'll come back around.

 

[Humdinger]

Yeah, I enjoyed the early MoH games a lot. I got bored of war shooters pretty quickly after that, though, so I don't have a good comparison. All I can say is that I enjoyed that old style and find the modern games unengaging, for the most part. I believe most of this is because MoH games were the among first war games I played. They were new to me. Since then, though, I have seen hundreds of similar games come and go. It's hard for a game to feel really immersive at that point.

 

[Laptop1991]

I loved MOH Allied Assault, loads of us PC gamers were playing the game at the time and it was a great game, the same team went on to make COD 1, becoming Infinity Ward, which i played to death as well back then, still my best memories of WW2 shooters. and yeah i was completely immersed.

 

[Drizzlehell]

By that time, hell yeah.
If I think of a WW2 shooter, Brothers in Arms pops up in my head.
I have always felt that BiA is a more immersive experience than MoH

Hmm... I'll give it a go, then. I actually just found that I do have Hell's Highway on Xbox via backwards compatibility. Is it okay to just play that one or is the original better?

 

[Drizzlehell]

Also, thank you for the gold, you devilishly handsome man of culture

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Yep. There was something about the game when I got to play a demo of it.

This had all the AAA aspects by those standards back then.

Was just a different time that the younger crowd will never get to feel how things were back then.

 

[Drizzlehell]

What's the one where late game you start fighting dogs riding tractors and they can use blammers? Was it Underground?

Yeah, that was Underground. There was also a level where you assembled a robot that looked like a giant nutcracker and he was called Panzerknacker and you also had to fight dancing dogs or something like that. It was the funniest shit ever, lol.

 

[kirby007]

MOHAA on school pcs was something

 

[Paulxo87]

I was there in 1998 when it came out... You are 100% correct. It is because Spielberg himself was involved in the game. It should be remade