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[Hawk The Slayer]

Skyrim modded is easily still and will always be one of the best games of all times along with most of the other Fallout and Elder Scroll games.

 

[KyoZz]

Oh and yeah the mansion is one of the greatest level in gaming history, not to mention that Dishonored 2 is still a looker on PC



I was late to the party with this series but damn, it became one of my favorite.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

There are plenty of good rpgs without filler. Ever played elden ring?

 

[MMaRsu]

It was the best Bethesda game they released until that time.

It was the best open world RPG in many ways. It's not Morrowind, I know, but it's still great.

And people were super hyped for it.



It has the scores and sales to prove it. Just because YOU don't like it, doesn't really mean anything.

There really weren't any games like it available (barring Oblivion). Especially on consoles.

 

[bender]

It was the best Bethesda game they released until that time.

 

[MMaRsu]

Oh cmon man if you don't want to discuss anything you're going back on fucking ignore. Fucking pathetic to have a 'discussion' this way. What are you, 10?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

It's because it wasn't that good.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

It's because it wasn't that good.

Then how did it got seal of quality?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Then how did it got seal of quality?

It never got the Nintendo Seal of Quality which was the biggest tell that the game wasn't quality.

 

[rm082e]

It's because it wasn't that good.

 

[stn]

That's an odd comparison. Dishonored 2 could sell 20 million copies, for example, and still sell less than Skyrim. Its a great game though, excellent level design. The whole Dishonored series is fantastic, now that I think about it.

 

[Sentenza]

Skyrim is great.

Try making a stealth archer build. You will have fun.

It's pretty SLOPPY game design in almost every single one of its parts, but that's a lost battle at this point.
Clearly people loved it and gobbled it in masses anyway.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Well, Dishonored 2 released half a decade later, so obviously a victim of continually inflating development costs. But still.. And I'm not sure comparing the game to one of the best selling games is an ideal comparison.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

It's pretty SLOPPY game design in almost every single one of its parts, but that's a lost battle at this point.
Clearly people loved it and gobbled it in masses anyway.

It definitely did something right. 60 million sold is a pretty impressive feat.

 

[BiohazardX95]

That didn't save the hi-fi rush/evil within studio, and I don't think their games were more expensive than dishonored or Skyrim.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

It's pretty SLOPPY game design in almost every single one of its parts, but that's a lost battle at this point.
Clearly people loved it and gobbled it in masses anyway.

Exploration is good. I remember plucking a random odd looking flower that started a huge quest.

Also level design is good. Open world feels well crafted. Am playing BOTW and it seems inspired by this.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Exploration is good. I remember plucking a random odd looking flower that started a huge quest.

Also level design is good. Open world feels well crafted. Am playing BOTW and it seems inspired by this.

It is solid and those things are great things about it, but have you played Morrowind?

 

[ssringo]

Man, I last played Dishonored 2 in 2016 and haven't thought much about it since. Gonna pull it out of my 'hidden game' list and see about giving it another go the next time there's a lull in releases. Or maybe play it on Deck after I finish Hollow Knight (4th try for it to finally stick).

 

[vaibhavpisal]

It is solid and those things are great things about it, but have you played Morrowind?

I have.

But didn’t finish it. It had some difficulty spikes and annoying sections.

But otherwise the world was amazing. And exploration. Could kill anyone and game would still go on. Was great to see in open world like that.

 

[bender]

Oh cmon man if you don't want to discuss anything you're going back on fucking ignore. Fucking pathetic to have a 'discussion' this way. What are you, 10?

And what exactly should I be discussing with you when you provide sweeping statements with no substance like, and I'm paraphrasing, "better than most games released around that time" and "the best game that Bethesda had released"? No, I'm not ten, but if I were and if Skyrim was my first Bethesda game I might have been enamored with the lead-you-by-the-nose open world design, unaware of the dumbed down systems from previous entries in the series, more forgiven of the persistent problems found in every Bethesda release, and not fatigued by their quantity of quality design approach. Thankfully, I've played better games and better games by Bethesda themselves.

Back on your ignore list? Oh, no! What will I ever do?

 

[Ballthyrm]

What a retarded comparison. Your benchmark is Skyrim sales numbers, really? Skyrim sold 60 million copies for fuck's sake, you know how many games sold less than that?

wtf is this?

Here is the Bethesda exec only PoV.

They don't care really if Skyrim is a good game or not. Only thing that matters is number go up.

 

[hyperbertha]

It definitely did something right. 60 million sold is a pretty impressive feat.

What it did was appeal to braindead normies. Just like the call of duties and fifas. That's all it did. Terrible game.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

What it did was appeal to braindead normies. Just like the call of duties and fifas. That's all it did. Terrible game.

30k people are playing it right now.

Normies and braindead, all of them.

Bethesda will never be able to recover from Morrowind I feel. Regardless of how good newer games are.

Banjo & Kazooie creator said same thing. Regardless of how good a game is, fans will hate new entry if it gets made.

Both Skyrim, Fallout 4 I played recently. Both have very strong gameplay loops. Especially Fallout 4. But it will require playing in a specific way. Its surely no Morrowind though. And thats a mistake I guess.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I never had the chance to play any of both game. I liked Prey a lot, are they kind of similar ?

It's was valiant effort to reach the stealth pinnacle that was the Thief series. They got REALLY close...

 

[Wildebeest]

The bigger budget for Dishonored 2 didn't fully translate into a better game than the first. Performance was not good. The larger levels didn't really suit the game that well. Some things about it look good, have gameplay improvements, have more impressive gimmicks on levels, and so on. But it just doesn't add up to being a better overall game.

 

[Sentenza]

Exploration is good.

Also level design is good. Open world feels well crafted.

They really aren’t. I can think of countless games in the genre that nailed these aspects way better, sometimes on a fraction of Skyrim’s budget.

The over-reliance on level scaling, the underwhelming randomized itemization, the limited environmental interaction, the sloppy questlines (“Do 3 random menial tasks to become the mage guild new leader”) and the botched balance curve that makes you feel completely unthreatened by anything you come across barely few hours into the game are all factors that detract by any sense of gratification the “exploration” could offer.

Stuff like Gothic sold that illusion way better on a budget that wouldn’t cover for Skyrim’s trailers.

 

[Radical_3d]

Skyrim cost less because it's a braindead sandbox with mindless filler stuffed everywhere. It can't begin to compare to the greatness of arkane games

And that looks like ass. Meanwhile every corner of Dishonoured 2 looked like a paint.

 

[RCX]

Really liked #1 but couldnt get into 2 in the same way. Not sure why, it just didn't grab me.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

They really aren’t. I can think of countless games in the genre that nailed these aspects way better, sometimes on a fraction of Skyrim’s budget.

The over-reliance on level scaling, the underwhelming randomized itemization, the limited environmental interaction, the sloppy questlines (“Do 3 random menial tasks to become the mage guild new leader”) and the botched balance curve that makes you feel completely unthreatened by anything you come across barely few hours into the game are all factors that detract by any sense of gratification the “exploration” could offer.

Stuff like Gothic sold that illusion way better on a budget that wouldn’t cover for Skyrim’s trailers.

Fair enough.

I still wouldn’t call it slop.

Its a good package and I had great time exploring it and building a stealth character.

Had a fair share of hidden areas, pocket dimensions etc that made moment to moment exploration interesting.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

It's not Morrowind, I know

 

[MMaRsu]

And that looks like ass. Meanwhile every corner of Dishonoured 2 looked like a paint.

Skyrim released in 2011

Dishonored 2 released in 2016

Great honest comparison

 

[Shubh_C63]

Both were so good games, especially the first.
But it came at a time when huge transition towards cheery colorful looking games were happening iirc.

Everything about Dishonored 2 made sense on paper, but playing it I really wanted something else. Dis1 was enough Dishonored for me.

 

[Ceadeus]

It's was valiant effort to reach the stealth pinnacle that was the Thief series. They got REALLY close...

Oh and I liked thief deadly shadow on Xbox so much. I know this one was not at the same standards as the previous thief on PC but hey, I can appreciate the effort that went into porting a game like this on a 64Mo console

I was blown away by the atmosphere. It was one of the first game to have real time shadow. Doing stealth in 1st person was novel at the time, especially with these graphic on console.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Oh and I liked thief deadly shadow on Xbox so much. I know this one was not at the same standards as the previous thief on PC but hey, I can appreciate the effort that went into porting a game like this on a 64Mo console

I was blown away by the atmosphere. It was one of the first game to have real time shadow. Doing stealth in 1st person was novel at the time, especially with these graphic on console.

People can shit all they want on Thief DS, but it gave us the Cradle, so I really cannot complain.

Obligatory: https://www.pcgamer.com/journeying-into-the-cradle-in-thief-deadly-shadows/

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Bethesda will never be able to recover from Morrowind I feel. Regardless of how good newer games are.



Banjo & Kazooie creator said same thing. Regardless of how good a game is, fans will hate new entry if it gets made.

Both Skyrim, Fallout 4 I played recently. Both have very strong gameplay loops. Especially Fallout 4. But it will require playing in a specific way. Its surely no Morrowind though. And thats a mistake I guess.

Fair-ish, but at the same time, it's in Bethesda's hands to some extent. No one held a gun to their head and forced them first to remove Acrobatics, Faction requirements, etc, then further removing stats, classes, major minors, Mysticism, hand to hand... uh. They could start by not gutting the games as they go -but then they'd lose the "filthy casual" as it's called. I still like Skyrim for what it is, but as you say, Morrowind it is not. However, I feel no pity for Bethesda - these are choices they make.

 

[SHA]

Shame it has really weird feeling controls on console, physically uncomfortable.

Yeah, I've tried to like it like the first one but with no luck. The elder scrolls is different, you can't make a sequel every 4 years. The cost doesn't tell the whole story and the game has earned it's place, I don't understand how some dislike it in the comment section. True gamers have special place for masterpieces.

 

[Roni]

I took my time getting to it after beating Dishonored 1, but it's way better than Dishonored 1 and deserves high praise. It's a work of art, really...

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Yeah, I've tried to like it like the first one but with no luck. The elder scrolls is different, you can't make a sequel every 4 years. The cost doesn't tell the whole story and the game has earned it's place, I don't understand how some dislike it in the comment section. True gamers have special place for masterpieces.

Arena - 1994
Daggerfall - 1996
Morrowind - 2002
Oblivion - 2006
Skyrim - 2011
????

 

[Buggy Loop]

Why aren't you buying immersive sim games? They're the best goddamn genre. Its hard to say on one hand that GAAS is shit and we want more single player games, but you clearly aren't buying

Deus Ex studio closed
Eidos' Deus ex was also transfered to gaas
Dishonored not selling
Prey studio closed

FFS

 

[Arachnid]

Dishonored 2 underperforming is so damn criminal.

Meanwhile PS puts out an copy-paste AC rip offs like Ghost or Horizon and people eat it up. Gamers deserve nothing.

 

[LazyParrot]

Especially at the time released, there were not many games that were as good as Skyrim.

That's entirely subjective, of course. I think Skyrim's success was largely due to how streamlined and approachable it was, especially by Western RPG standards. The people I knew who got into it the most tended to be the ones who usually preferred shooters. Those who regularly played RPGs still had fun with the game, but they weren't nearly as hyped about it, myself included.

Personally, I always felt like Skyrim was sort of the Bioshock to Morrowind's System Shock. A good game in its own right making sizeable strides in terms of presentation and accessibility, but a step back in most other aspects.

 

[baphomet]

No shit it sold less than Skyrim

99.9% of all video games ever released sold less than Skyrim.

 

[genesisblock]

Oh and yeah the mansion is one of the greatest level in gaming history, not to mention that Dishonored 2 is still a looker on PC



I was late to the party with this series but damn, it became one of my favorite.

I hate playthroughs like this, memorizing enemy patterns in rote to get that "money-shot" run goes against the immersive sim design.

But to it's credit, there's nothing like the mansion any game but it's a clear case of style over substance.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Why aren't you buying immersive sim games? They're the best goddamn genre. Its hard to say on one hand that GAAS is shit and we want more single player games, but you clearly aren't buying

Deus Ex studio closed
Eidos' Deus ex was also transfered to gaas
Dishonored not selling
Prey studio closed

FFS

I think that game Judas will sell well given the pedigree.

 

[adamsapple]

It never got the Nintendo Seal of Quality which was the biggest tell that the game wasn't quality.

The Nintendo seal of quality is infallible

 

[Ceadeus]

People can shit all they want on Thief DS, but it gave us the Cradle, so I really cannot complain.

Obligatory: https://www.pcgamer.com/journeying-into-the-cradle-in-thief-deadly-shadows/

I didn't made it to that level, now I have to finish the game I'm intrigued

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Fair-ish, but at the same time, it's in Bethesda's hands to some extent. No one held a gun to their head and forced them first to remove Acrobatics, Faction requirements, etc, then further removing stats, classes, major minors, Mysticism, hand to hand... uh. They could start by not gutting the games as they go -but then they'd lose the "filthy casual" as it's called. I still like Skyrim for what it is, but as you say, Morrowind it is not. However, I feel no pity for Bethesda - these are choices they make.

Absolutely.

They should add that stuff if community wants it in their characters.

I think they should focus on playability of their games, how to make exploration feel closer to Morrowind without going hardcore. I feel Indiana Jones is a step in right direction with map markers hidden unless you open the map.

Also, more acrobatics, and in general more Im Sim elements.

So there is lots of scope for improvement.

 

[Radical_3d]

Skyrim released in 2011

Dishonored 2 released in 2016

Great honest comparison

Same honesty like comparing the budget from a 360 game assets to one of PS4. Every generation the games are more expensives. Go figure.

 

[MMaRsu]

Absolutely.

They should add that stuff if community wants it in their characters.

I think they should focus on playability of their games, how to make exploration feel closer to Morrowind without going hardcore. I feel Indiana Jones is a step in right direction with map markers hidden unless you open the map.

Also, more acrobatics, and in general more Im Sim elements.

So there is lots of scope for improvement.

Bethesda the publisher and developer are not the same, they have nothing to do with Indiana jones

 

[Loope]

Dishonored Series is my favorite games of all time (see my profile banner). Checks all the boxes for me for how an insanely fun game should be:

Interesting lore and settings, mature story, stylish art and vibe, delicately crafted level/sandbox, creative super powers, and sheer freedom for completing task.



Still bitter that the rumored Dishonored 3 turned out to be a Marvel game.


Dishonored is one of those games that, once i started it i couldn't stop. What a ride. Dishonored 2 for some reason didn't click the same with me, BUT, i didn't get to the clockwork mansion.