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PS5 HW shipments top 65.6M (+3.8M units), G&NS sales up by 12% YoY, Operating Income up by 184%, Software sales at 77,7M (+15%)

leo-j

Member
Idk if we are getting a price cut….. the console is just behind the ps4 which was at $299 around 2017….. and they just launched a pro model for $699. Dropping the ps5 with disc to $399 would totally cannibilize the pro sales in terms of just value alone. They are making record profits this generation at $499 and with the ps plus increased price.
 

Klosshufvud

Member
The rumoured price in Europe is €475 for the disc slim and €375 for the digital slim, it will run from November 22nd to Friday 6th December 2024.
I really hope that's true since I'm looking to buy one as a gift. Even the used market is asking so much for a 2020 launched console. Insane that I'm paying more now for a disc PS5 than I did 4 years ago....
 
The revenue of the TV shows and movies would be in the Picture segment. If that leads to an increase in games, then that revenue would be in the G&NS segment.

It's not "mental gymnastics". It's financial reporting.
So why use Sony and SIE interchangeably if you're only interested in the games division as a fair comparison? Same thing with MS. Why not just say Xbox division instead of MS bc then you'd be referring to the whole company.

When you made the claim that last year Nintendo made higher profits than Sony, was that Sony Group Corp or their games division? Bc it would be disingenous to make the claim that Nintendo makes more money than Sony as a whole.
 
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onQ123

Member
Idk if we are getting a price cut….. the console is just behind the ps4 which was at $299 around 2017….. and they just launched a pro model for $699. Dropping the ps5 with disc to $399 would totally cannibilize the pro sales in terms of just value alone. They are making record profits this generation at $499 and with the ps plus increased price.
A price cut will come with a die shrink if we get one & that should bring the price down on both models.
 

Woopah

Member
So why use Sony and SIE interchangeably if you're only interested in the games division as a fair comparison? Same thing with MS. Why not just say Xbox division instead of MS bc then you'd be referring to the whole company.

When you made the claim that last year Nintendo made higher profits than Sony, was that Sony Group Corp or their games division? Bc it would be disingenous to make the claim that Nintendo makes more money than Sony as a whole.
I meant SIE specifically.

The person you originally quoted said "SIE" and then you responded using "Sony". So I thought you were using the terms interchangeably.

Apologies for the confusion.
 

Klosshufvud

Member
A price cut will come with a die shrink if we get one & that should bring the price down on both models.
The odd thing is that AMD's 4nm APUs have existed for years now. The Z1E in the Rog Ally for instance is a 4nm APU. I wonder why Sony and MS aren't making the jump to 4nm. Maybe the 7nm production lines are more economically viable as Apple and Samsung hogs up the more high end production lines?
 
The odd thing is that AMD's 4nm APUs have existed for years now. The Z1E in the Rog Ally for instance is a 4nm APU. I wonder why Sony and MS aren't making the jump to 4nm. Maybe the 7nm production lines are more economically viable as Apple and Samsung hogs up the more high end production lines?
I think the Pro is 4nm. Maybe MS and Sony doesn't think it's worth it to go to 4 on the regular models.
 
Not even close. $176 mil profit for the quarter is pathetically low. Last quarter was $715 mil, which still pales in comparison to what Sony's been making per quarter.

Aren't you comparing all of Sony Corp vs. Nintendo here?

Ultimately Sony would prefer to sell slightly fewer PS5s and generate much higher profits.

This doesn't establish a trend that would mean PS6 would be lower than PS5. Sony is retaining their audience across generations.

Well, truthfully we haven't had enough time to establish if this is true or not, yet. One thing we DO know is that a lot of PS4 players have yet to upgrade to PS5. However, a lot of those PS4 users are still active enough to keep MAU high and I'm guessing out of what PS5s are selling some are joining the MAU hence increases.

But this is going to create another issue longer-term IMO: a problem where the baseline remains low enough to where majority of games are still targeting PS4 as a performance spec many years out. Ironically, that, like the Series S, ultimately helps Nintendo in getting more 3P AAA support, as Switch 2 will be equivalent to those systems in settings depending on how it's being used.

For SIE specifically, if that trend continues, it will naturally suppress demand for the next console iteration because even in the event PS4 support completely phases out over the next few years, PS5 will just take its place and stay around even longer while the PS6 is on the market. Now, I'm not stupid enough to say SIE aren't accounting for any of this; in fact it could be what they want in the long run as they see PS more like a family of devices concurrently on the market, targeting different customer brackets while providing cross-gen software support for longer periods of time. Essentially, what Microsoft wanted to do with Series S & X, but using those as the start of that trend while cutting off the XBO and One X, and including PC as a platform in that mix because even tho other OEMs make the PCs, they're all ultimately running Windows which is where PC gaming is dominant, and Windows is a Microsoft-owned OS.

Maybe Sony want to move in that direction but obviously unlike MS they're going to use PlayStations as those devices primarily, yet are also leveraging on PC more and more as an option in the mix, and that's where I think SIE are going to make a big mistake longer-term vs. Microsoft. Again, at least for now, PC gaming is ubiquitous with Windows on the OS level, that's Microsoft's vested interest. SIE doesn't have that vested interest and they don't even have one in terms of the storefront, because Steam is owned by Valve. Gaming on PC is just going to get easier and easier over time, with low & mid-range "good enough" options entering affordable pricing brackets via OEM systems. It's even possible the next generation of Xbox devices help in that regard, we'll see.

So, Sony could have a situation five years from now where PS4, PS5 and PS6 are all still supported platforms for release, alongside PC eventually getting all of their games (either Day 1 or within some time frame after release), but it'd be Sony's focus on PC in that equation that ends up weakening such a strategy. Like sure, a PS4 owner might upgrade to the PS5...but they may also just invest in a mid-range gaming PC instead. Sony still get them as MAU when they buy their games on PC, but chances are that user won't re-sub to PS+, they won't continue doing 3P purchases on the PS store, so SIE are still going to lose out in some area or another. Additionally, if and when such a switch happens user-side, it ultimately means a customers out of the PS hardware ecosystem, so the PS6 (for example) is going to come up short with later-term buyers because that would've-been late onboarder has already switched to a different platform. This isn't even getting into matters related to pricing.

That's not a fair comparison though, Nintendo as a whole vs Sony's game division. Has to be whole vs whole as to not be skewed.

Well by that logic people should be able to compare Microsoft Corp's total revenue & profit vs. Sony's, and somehow be able to equivalate both to just their respective gaming sides.

Which doesn't make a lot of sense to me, not to mention badly skews the conversation. Sony's other divisions have little impact on SIE; SIE are the ones in the core traditional console gaming market. Microsoft Gaming are the ones in the core traditional console gaming market, not the Windows or Azure divisions at Microsoft.

Nintendo is vast majority gaming-centric, though they have some mobile spinoffs and things with Universal plus films more recently. But when comparing them to SIE or MS Gaming, people only focus on Nintendo's gaming-side affairs, as it should be.
 
I still see great potential despite what a lot of users say, permanent cuts, more current games only and big 3rd party games like GTAVI will sure move consoles.

I’m sure they’ll reduce the price of the Pro too.

TBH I don't think they'll do permanent price cuts until closer to PS6's release. And that would be just to have PS5 as the cheaper entry point, the Pro in the middle, and PS6 as the high-end option.

Just bear in mind PS5 will get a GTA VI boost and will keep selling after PS6 for a few years. I feel PS4 sales were cut short because of COVID. It was very constrained .

PS4 sales were definitely cut short due to COVID. The drop was worst in its last full year than Wii's, despite having none of the Wii's problems (in terms of being driven heavily by mainstream hype that shifted over to the next new thing, in their case that being 360 Kinect). Nothing about PS4's last main FY was normal in terms of supply.

However, I don't think GTA6 is going to give the massive boost some of you think. It's not like people haven't already been buying PS5s ahead of time in anticipation. The boost would mainly come from casuals/mainstream and only if SIE do a big sales promo around the time the game launches, and that still depends on how long they keep it active.

Fred Meyer has confirmed the leaks, the slim disc will be $425 for BF, the digital seems that it will be $375

There’s some chance they will sell more in Q3 FY2024 compared to Q3 2023.
NALU60l.jpeg

Not bad I guess. Still, how much they move next quarter'll depend a lot on how long the promo stays active. I doubt it extends past New Year's. Also they might not do anything equivalent for parts of Europe, where they've been having similar promos throughout the year already.

I'm curious if they'll have any sales promotions for Japan. That's a market where they could definitely use a boost in hardware sales.

I think it is possible. A price drop on an integration of the Slim model as they keep bringing the cost down, but if you essentially have a GTA VI wind blowing in your sails you may want to benefit from higher profits margins and then drop the price.

They will need to see how much the console manufacturing costs have dropped and balance the price drop (loss of profits) with the boatload of new consoles that big new 2025 titles would bring (if they drop the console price how many more consoles would they sell?).

TBH I don't think permanent price cuts are coming for a long time. Totoki is totally in profits-driven mode for SIE, he wants to keep that going for as long as possible. As production gets cheaper, that just increases SIE's margins on hardware.

The earliest I can even see a permanent price cut is H2 2026, and that'd be due to competition from Switch 2, possibly fire-sale price cuts by Microsoft for Series X & S if they do actually have new hardware releasing in late 2026. Switch 2 won't be a direct competitor to PS5 but as an indirect competitor they'll be more of a presence than even the first Switch was, so I could see Japan and some European countries being first to get permanent PS5 price cuts.

With Xbox, I think SIE would mainly look to see what amount of stock MS have for them if they do a firesale to clear out remaining stock, particularly in America. Depending on that amount SIE may probably do an aggressive sales promo for PS5 in America for holiday 2026, then ease off, then do a permanent price cut around the start of FY 2027 primarily if that's when GTA6 actually gets its PC port released. Or, they could wait until a bit later in 2027 for a permanent price cut in America, UK and select other regions.

They'd want to keep it as late as possible prior to PS6's release, which good chance is late 2028.

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if Sony hold off on a perm price cut and see what GTA6 does for hardware sales. Actually with totoki hovering over ps that's most likely what they might do.

Exactly.

I don't think 2025 will be a worse year, considering gta 6 launches.

Possibly. But, some folks who want GTA6 already have their systems.
 
Aren't you comparing all of Sony Corp vs. Nintendo here?

Well by that logic people should be able to compare Microsoft Corp's total revenue & profit vs. Sony's, and somehow be able to equivalate both to just their respective gaming sides.

Which doesn't make a lot of sense to me, not to mention badly skews the conversation. Sony's other divisions have little impact on SIE; SIE are the ones in the core traditional console gaming market. Microsoft Gaming are the ones in the core traditional console gaming market, not the Windows or Azure divisions at Microsoft.

Nintendo is vast majority gaming-centric, though they have some mobile spinoffs and things with Universal plus films more recently. But when comparing them to SIE or MS Gaming, people only focus on Nintendo's gaming-side affairs, as it should be.

You can certainly compare MS vs Sony, and everyone would agree that MS makes more. No one would dispute that. My issue here though is with Sony vs Nintendo. The popular notion is that Nintendo's profits are higher than Sony's, which is factually incorrect. On the contrary, Sony's other divisions do affect SIE at times. What about Sony Pictures Core being a downloadable app on PS5? Or what about people buying a PS2/PS3/PS4/PS5 as a DVD/Blu-Ray player to watch movies? Does that still affect their G&N or does it affect the Pictures segment, or both?

If ppl want to focus strictly on gaming side affairs only, then they need to stop saying Sony or MS and just instead say Playstation or Xbox Division then.
 
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onQ123

Member
The odd thing is that AMD's 4nm APUs have existed for years now. The Z1E in the Rog Ally for instance is a 4nm APU. I wonder why Sony and MS aren't making the jump to 4nm. Maybe the 7nm production lines are more economically viable as Apple and Samsung hogs up the more high end production lines?
But PS5 is on 6nm so they're probably waiting for 3nm
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
The odd thing is that AMD's 4nm APUs have existed for years now. The Z1E in the Rog Ally for instance is a 4nm APU. I wonder why Sony and MS aren't making the jump to 4nm. Maybe the 7nm production lines are more economically viable as Apple and Samsung hogs up the more high end production lines?

Yes, 4nm is more expensive. Currently it's only in the Pro.

Not as economically viable to shrink because it won't reduce costs.
 
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