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[kess]

You know, this is why incrementalism on the left falls on deaf ears. Trump runs the most extreme campaign imaginable, gets two Supreme Court seats, nominates the craziest fucking cabinet ever, and is going to gut 100 years of progress on education, the environment, foreign policy, racial issues and health care.

Sometimes you don't get second chances.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

You know, this is why incrementalism on the left falls on deaf ears. Trump runs the most extreme campaign imaginable, gets two Supreme Court seats, nominates the craziest fucking cabinet ever, and is going to gut 100 years of progress on education, the environment, foreign policy, racial issues and health care.

Sometimes you don't get second chances.

But we need to go high when they go low

 

[GoldenEye 007]

You don't understand the magnitude of the crisis that
you're advocating for.

9 becomes 13 becomes 15 becomes 21 very quickly. The parties will alternate. There will be no end in sight. The Court is an independent institution despite whatever snarky cynical comment a snarky cynic would like to make.

This would de facto end that and leave it to the whim of the ruling party to demand decisions with the threat of changing the composition to get the votes it wants.

The alternative is dooming the country to at least 30 years of backwards thinking, with even longer term consequences. This will be magnified because RBG isn't for long either. I'd be shocked if she could last until 2020.

On democratic issues like the VRA, even this court has done extreme damage to core democracy in the US. The disenfranchisement of voters will get even worse - helping to ensure even further right thinking in the US over time.

 

[Autodidact]

I just know we won't descend into hysterics based on an unsubstantiated rumor contradicted by the SC's calendar and Kennedy's maintaining a full staff.

We'll surely see this rumor, flimsy though it may be, as a wake-up call to VOTE IN THE MIDTERMS next year and give Democrats a slim majority in the Senate. Rather than wallow in angst and declare democracy dead, we'll mobilize and encourage our friends and family to vote, too. Though concerned, we'll translate our fears into action, candidate recruitment, and participation in the democratic process.

Right?

 

[Bronx-Man]

America is fucked for an generation at the least if Trump appoints another justice.

 

[Zubz]

I'm hoping this is just a rumor. Partly because it seems weird that Kennedy'd bail with so much lining up for him, but mostly because of how screwed we are if Trump gets to replace him.

Can he at least wait until the 2018 elections or something?

 

[elrechazado]

Roberts isn't over turning roe

 

[Kinyou]

"In one of the countless billions of galaxies in the universe, lies a medium-sized star, and one of its satellites, a green and insignificant planet, is now dead."

 

[Chumley]

If this happens the next Democratic president will have to pack the court. There is no other option https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_Procedures_Reform_Bill_of_1937

Yep.

Rules and norms mean nothing. If we take the house and the presidency, destroy everything. Fuck the Republicans. Blow up everything you can legally blow up. The electorate doesn't care.

No. You don't open this Pandora's Box.

That ship sailed, buddy. Its open and nothing matters anymore besides power.

 

[Future]

Wasn't it estimated Trump could get to put 2-3 judges to SCOTUS?

Yup.

I still remembering arguing with progressives ON THIS DAMN FORUM that were claiming all the reasons they couldnt justify a Clinton vote, despite the supreme court alone was reason enough

so I am welcoming this. hopefully some of the abstainers get affected by this

 

[GoldenEye 007]

You know, this is why incrementalism on the left falls on deaf ears. Trump runs the most extreme campaign imaginable, gets two Supreme Court seats, nominates the craziest fucking cabinet ever, and is going to gut 100 years of progress on education, the environment, foreign policy, racial issues and health care.

Sometimes you don't get second chances.

The reason why this is more possible is because the country is right leaning overall. Less resistance and accountability to stuff like this then even trying to champion socialist related policies like basic access to health and other safety nets other modern developed countries have worked under. You'd be staving off claims for dirty commie before you can even get to meat of your policies.

Backwards rural areas have too much of a grip on overall political policies. So even if there are more overall center to left leaning citizens, right leaning ones are more strategically placed to ensure their voices are heard the loudest.

Edit: That being said, fuck it. If Dems can get back into the legislative and executive, then their only choice is to blow shit up overnight and implement progressive policies to take effect as fast as possible.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

 

[Angelus Errare]

America is fucked for an generation at the least if Trump appoints another justice.

EASILY More than one generation bruh. Our great grandchildren's grand kids are going to feel this shit.

 

[Cagey]

The alternative is dooming the country to at least 30 years of backwards thinking, with even longer term consequences. This will be magnified because RBG isn't for long either. I'd be shocked if she could last until 2020.

On democratic issues like the VRA, even this court has done extreme damage to core democracy in the US. The disenfranchisement of voters will get even worse - helping to ensure even further right thinking in the US over time.

Court packing doesn't solve anything and creates a constitutional crisis about the independence of the court.

You don't think the 13 justice Dem SCOTUS becomes 21 when the GOP regains power?

It's short sighted, foolish nonsense. You won't find many credible law professors advocating for this.

 

[Chumley]

Court packing doesn't solve anything and creates a constitutional crisis about the independence of the court.

You don't think the 13 justice Dem SCOTUS becomes 21 when the GOP regains power?

It's short sighted, foolish nonsense. You won't find many credible law professors advocating for this.

We're already in a constitutional crisis about the independence of the court. Trump appointed Gorsuch ffs. Have you been sleeping in a cave for the last year?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Roberts isn't over turning roe

http://www.ontheissues.org/Court/John_Roberts_Abortion.htm

This hardly makes that clear despite him saying it's settled law.

 

[Cagey]

We're already in a constitutional crisis about the independence of the court. Trump appointed Gorsuch ffs. Have you been sleeping in a cave for the last year?

Gorsuch and Garland are a snowball fight compared to court packing as true warfare.

Are you an attorney?

 

[Wanda/Wander]

Court packing doesn't solve anything and creates a constitutional crisis about the independence of the court.

You don't think the 13 justice Dem SCOTUS becomes 21 when the GOP regains power?

It's short sighted, foolish nonsense. You won't find many credible law professors advocating for this.

Bush v. Gore proved that the Court isn't completely divorced from political bullshit.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Court packing doesn't solve anything and creates a constitutional crisis about the independence of the court.

You don't think the 13 justice Dem SCOTUS becomes 21 when the GOP regains power?

It's short sighted, foolish nonsense. You won't find many credible law professors advocating for this.

We're already in a constitutional crisis. The legislative isn't checking the executive, media are being blacked out, disinformation is oozing from the WH. The judicial is already on a path to extreme right leaning thinking as appointees keep coming through.

Even if Dems regain power, they will be held up and challenged at every opportunity via the courts. I think all of that is worse than adding justices. We haven't always been at 9 justices. If anything, we're overdue for an increase just to deal with the massively different demographics and increased population of the country from when 9 were first legislated. There should be more representation.

 

[watershed]

Jesus, we're fucked.

 

[Autodidact]

We're already in a constitutional crisis about the independence of the court. Trump appointed Gorsuch ffs. Have you been sleeping in a cave for the last year?

Trump had every right to appoint a justice. The Senate had every right to change its rules to eliminate the judicial filibuster. Even denying Garland a hearing can't technically be deemed unconstitutional.

A shitty situation =/= a constitutional crisis

 

[UberTag]

You know, this is why incrementalism on the left falls on deaf ears. Trump runs the most extreme campaign imaginable, gets two Supreme Court seats, nominates the craziest fucking cabinet ever, and is going to gut 100 years of progress on education, the environment, foreign policy, racial issues and health care.

Sometimes you don't get second chances.

This is the outcome the United States deserves.
There will be no coming back from what was set in motion last November.
You'll be talking about how it was a monumental shift in progress for the country for the next 50 years or more.

But we need to go high when they go low

If anything, you should be going even lower because the Republicans will happily go to unheard of depths to get what they want.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

I've never understood why they want to stay there until their skin starts rotting. Retire by choice when you know you'll be replaced well. Otherwise you risk dying or needing to retire at a time when you will be replaced by somebody against all your beliefs.

Really, by the time your 70 at the latest, you should be considering that reality. And as recent events have taught us, if the house is against you, do it 2 years out of an election, not 1, cause it will just get stolen.

 

[Linkyn]

Court packing doesn't solve anything and creates a constitutional crisis about the independence of the court.

You don't think the 13 justice Dem SCOTUS becomes 21 when the GOP regains power?

It's short sighted, foolish nonsense. You won't find many credible law professors advocating for this.

Packing aside, since justices are nominated by the president and confirmed by the Senate, the court isn't really independent to begin with. In a perfect world, the 9 people deliberating over interpretation of the US constitution would be politically and ideologically unaffiliated. In reality, conservative governments lead to conservative justices and liberal governments lead to liberal justices.

 

[Black Republican]

BAHAHAHAHa wow.

good luck america

 

[Meowster]

Trump gonna get to replace 3+ supreme court justices. Thanks people that wrote in bullshit on ballots.

I hope those Harambe and Jill Stein jackasses are happy with themselves.

 

[Ether_Snake]

If Trump wasn't dumb, he'd understand that his biggest obstacle to some of his bills are in his own party, so he'd use the nomination as leverage in negotiations with them.

Well even if he was dumb he might do that.

 

[acheron_xl]

Trump had every right to appoint a justice. The Senate had every right to change its rules to eliminate the judicial filibuster. Even denying Garland a hearing can't technically be deemed unconstitutional.

A shitty situation =/= a constitutional crisis

And this is why Democrats need to nut up and play dirty. Republicans will literally do everything they can do that isn't explicitly illegal. Unwritten rules, norms, and politeness have ceased to exist.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Trump had every right to appoint a justice. The Senate had every right to change its rules to eliminate the judicial filibuster. Even denying Garland a hearing can't technically be deemed unconstitutional.

A shitty situation =/= a constitutional crisis

And adding justices was done in the past...

 

[Chumley]

Gorsuch and Garland are a snowball fight compared to court packing as true warfare.

Are you an attorney?

Who gives a shit what level of warfare it is. Trump opened the floodgates. There is no reason why Democrats should kneel to norms when all that's ever done is screw them over. They have the right policies, and they should do nothing short of everything it takes to enact them. Republicans are trying to destroy the fucking planet. They're an existential threat.

 

[HylianTom]

This is the outcome the United States deserves.
There will be no coming back from what was set in motion last November.
You'll be talking about how it was a monumental shift in progress for the country for the next 50 years or more.

What'll be really interesting:
the country will be majority-minority within a few decades. How will this new majority react politically when the judiciary that's been put in place consistently approves red states treating them like shit?

 

[SSPssp]

If Trump wasn't dumb, he'd understand that his biggest obstacle to some of his bills are in his own party, so he'd use the nomination as leverage in negotiations with them.

Well even if he was dumb he might do that.

President Pence will happily nominate many more Gorsuchs.

 

[Psychoward]

No. You don't open this Pandora's Box.

lol as if the Republicans don't constantly bend the constitution to favor their judges

it's been open

 

[Kusagari]

Ginsburg should have fucking sucked it up and retired when Dems had control.

If Kennedy retires and she bites it we are fucked until we're all dead.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I've never understood why they want to stay there until their skin starts rotting. Retire by choice when you know you'll be replaced well. Otherwise you risk dying or needing to retire at a time when you will be replaced by somebody against all your beliefs.

Really, by the time your 70 at the latest, you should be considering that reality. And as recent events have taught us, if the house is against you, do it 2 years out of an election, not 1, cause it will just get stolen.

This is literally the reason Kennedy would retire under Trump. He'd want to be replaced by a Republican, and he doesn't want to die on the bench.

He's not retiring this year (way too much evidence that he's not planning to), but Trump will get to replace him. He's not going to want to be on the bench when he's 85, he's made that much clear over the last few years.

 

[UberTag]

Packing aside, since justices are nominated by the president and confirmed by the Senate, the court isn't really independent to begin with. In a perfect world, the 9 people deliberating over interpretation of the US constitution would be politically and ideologically unaffiliated. In reality, conservative governments lead to conservative justices and liberal governments lead to liberal justices.

Except for that last liberal government. They still got a conservative justice in the end.
Funny how that worked out.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Baby Boomers literally had to take everyone screaming down to hell with them, even for the generations after they're dead.

 

[Cagey]

Who gives a shit what level of warfare it is. Trump opened the floodgates. There is no reason why Democrats should kneel to norms when all that's ever done is screw them over. They have the right policies, and they should do nothing short of everything it takes to enact them. Republicans are trying to destroy the fucking planet. They're an existential threat.

And when the GOP regains power in 2032 and adds 8 40-something arch conservative justices?

There's no end to this once you begin unless you guarantee one party rule.

 

[acheron_xl]

Ginsburg should have fucking sucked it up and retired when Dems had control.

If Kennedy retires and she bites it we are fucked until we're all dead.

Going into the 2016 election with 7 seated justices would've been a fun time for everyone.

 

[Autodidact]

Going into the 2016 election with 7 seated justices would've been a fun time for everyone.

No, the pressure for Ginsburg to retire came before the 2014 midterms, when Democrats controlled the Senate. They could've gotten someone confirmed.

 

[elrechazado]

Who gives a shit what level of warfare it is. Trump opened the floodgates. There is no reason why Democrats should kneel to norms when all that's ever done is screw them over. They have the right policies, and they should do nothing short of everything it takes to enact them. Republicans are trying to destroy the fucking planet. They're an existential threat.

It's not about respecting norms, it's about giving yourself power that will be used against you in the same way by your enemy. There's a reason Trump hasn't tried to add justices either. But people will say we should do this in 2020, then when president Ryan doubles down in 2024 there'll be nothing but hand wringing and crying. It's not a difficult concept to not give away power that you don't want reciprocated against you.

 

[Arttemis]

He has staff for next year and has a few cases in the SC calender lined up this year that he specifically wants to oversee.

So like, let's calm down a bit, okay? He's not retiring this year.

Okay. If it is not this year, it's not like next year or the two after that would but any better.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Going into the 2016 election with 7 seated justices would've been a fun time for everyone.

Power means when they had the Senate still

 

[polyh3dron]

Welp, we're fucked.

It's not about respecting norms, it's about giving yourself power that will be used against you in the same way by your enemy. There's a reason Trump hasn't tried to add justices either. But people will say we should do this in 2020, then when president Ryan doubles down in 2024 there'll be nothing but hand wringing and crying. It's not a difficult concept to not give away power that you don't want reciprocated against you.

Because if there's one thing this Trump administration, and the current-day Republican party is known for, it's respecting norms.

 

[Autodidact]

Okay. If it is not this year, it's not like next year or the two after that would but any better.

But what in the next year or two would enable us to reclaim the Senate and moderate or even stymie Trump's court picks?

Maybe we should focus on that and make the best use of limited time.

 

[jaekeem]

Roberts isn't over turning roe

yup

Roberts would never directly overturn it when he can just find procedural means to shoot down challenges to state abortion laws, or otherwise limit casey's holding without directly overturning roe

he cares too much about optics RE the court

 

[Chumley]

And when the GOP regains power in 2032 and adds 8 40-something arch conservative justices?

There's no end to this once you begin unless you guarantee one party rule.

Then don't let them regain power. Get rid of the EC or do whatever it takes to make sure they're never in office again. The Republicans would have gotten rid of the EC long ago if they knew it'd guarantee power, so instead they gerrymander.

 

[Funyarinpa]

Phase II of Operation: Turkey-fication

As a Turk, yup.

It's like Trump saw Erdogan's success and is trying to frantically catch up (very incompetently) in terms of being a theological dictatorship

 

[Ether_Snake]

President Pence will happily nominate many more Gorsuchs.

Republicans are not going to impeach Trump, period.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

It's not about respecting norms, it's about giving yourself power that will be used against you in the same way by your enemy. There's a reason Trump hasn't tried to add justices either. But people will say we should do this in 2020, then when president Ryan doubles down in 2024 there'll be nothing but hand wringing and crying. It's not a difficult concept to not give away power that you don't want reciprocated against you.

And yet, the short-sighted people on the fringes of both parties keep calling for it. You'd find similar views on right wing sites. Now they're complaining that they have all this control but can't get their wishlist of goals accomplished like banning abortion so why bother even voting.