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[StreetsofBeige]

It's simple. It avoids being held responsible. It's the modern equivalent of saying God did it. There will be errors made by politicians, the local authority regarding management of the areas affected. Construction companies cheeping out and not using appropriate materials etc. You have apartment buildings made entirely out of wood in America which are just giant coffins. Shouldn't be built. Hopefully there will be an inquiry but I doubt it.

Government will always drag it out. Or in some instances even have laws in place you cant even sue them.

Just to show how stupid it can get, ever get into a car accident? I have many times. Rearended. One time clipped by a drunk or drugged up guy who hit many of us. Pain in the ass, but that night you collect info and report it and call insurance, and everything gets handled. Its not my fault, but the process is swift and eventually I get my car back repaired. I'll get a loaner from the lot that night since the repair shop my car gets towed to is still open.

My buddy got his car damaged by a giant pothole which messed up his wheel or axle. He's got the pics of the damage and even the pothole on the street. He said it took about 10 months for the city to agree to cover it. In the meantime, he had to pay for it or go through his own insurance until the gov resolved it. Incredible. 10 months.

 

[Madserb2023]

Complete fiction. Talking about climate change is not avoiding any responsibility. Avoiding even acknowledging that climate change is real is doing the exact thing you're supposedly against. What a joke this thread is. Fully partisan political propaganda BS and unscientific crap. Even during a disaster you can't acknowledge reality.

I am not denying climate change is a factor but it is one of many. Los Angeles didn't spontaneously combust. You are just playing into bad decision making. There are developers now building on flood plains and when the ares flood they will blame the climate. Yes climate change will make it worse but you shouldn't build in certain places to begin with. This could still happen if the world was 2 degrees colder. You shouldn't be building anything wooden in a dry tinder environment surrounded by trees at all.

 

[BlackTron]

But a big fire doesn't mean people should be grilled.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Oh shit. Didnt even realize it!

 

[DeepEnigma]

Do we get to hold people criminally responsible for climate change negligence next

I’ve lived through more than a dozen of these fires in SoCal. 95% of them are arson. Global Warming is a deflection argument.

 

[Punished Miku]

Sue the fossil fuel industry for damages. They have 150B. Fire anyone in local government you want. Unless you just want to post clown gifs while industries lie and profit off this destruction.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sue the fossil fuel industry for damages. They have 150B. Fire anyone in local government you want. Unless you just want to post clown gifs while industries lie and profit off this destruction.

The mental gymnastics you are going through to deflect against downright negligence and arson all over the place is a clown show.

 

[Punished Miku]

The mental gymnastics you are going through to deflect against downright negligence and arson all over the place is fun to watch.

I literally said fire anyone you want. I'm all for accountability. Arrest hobos too. You cant address all the causes though. Its bigger than Karen Bass. Take them all down.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I literally said fire anyone you want. I'm all for accountability. Arrest hobos too. You cant address all the causes though. Its bigger than Karen Bass. Take them all down.

We've already addressed it, it just keeps serving as derailing and deflection at this point.

It's not the cause of the fires or the negligence.

 

[Punished Miku]

It just keeps serving as derailing and deflection at this point.

You sound like an SJW with nothing of substance to say.

 

[diffusionx]

Complete fiction. Talking about climate change is not avoiding any responsibility. Avoiding even acknowledging that climate change is real is doing the exact thing you're supposedly against. What a joke this thread is. Fully partisan political propaganda BS and unscientific crap. Even during a disaster you can't acknowledge reality.

There is no evidence that "climate change" caused any of these fires and you can't prove it. In fact, nobody can prove it, not even the climate change advocates. The models don't work that way. Nor do the ones they build out to try to mitigate damage from climate change.

I mean you could just as easily sue real estate developers for building tons of houses in these areas, putting them in the way of the fires - even if you waved a magic wand and returned to the climate of the 1950s, there werre still fires, but there were a lot less people living in danger areas (CA has 4x as many people today as it did back then).

You are just yelling at clouds right now.

 

[Kacho]

If Elon Musk was in Karen Bass' position Miku would be calling for his head

 

[ÆMNE22A!C]

Greusom alerted insurance companies to his planned arson to get rid of the rich houses to make room for more homeless encampments.

Smart cities. New infrastructure.

Melted cars and trees standing next to them for example.

DEW.

Muh conspiracy smh

 

[DeepEnigma]

You sound like an SJW with nothing of substance to say.

And you're retarded per usual.

 

[violence]

In a state like this you got to take preventative measures and don’t create policies based on good vibes.

There have always been fires in California. Some plants there have evolved to survive in the root system and then spring up again after a wild fire, (then thrive cause of the lack of competition.)

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

I am not denying climate change is a factor but it is one of many. Los Angeles didn't spontaneously combust. You are just playing into bad decision making. There are developers now building on flood plains and when the ares flood they will blame the climate. Yes climate change will make it worse but you shouldn't build in certain places to begin with. This could still happen if the world was 2 degrees colder. You shouldn't be building anything wooden in a dry tinder environment surrounded by trees at all.

What's the alternative to wood? Concrete construction is cost prohibitive for low density development. Brick is also expensive. Both have an inferior safety profile in seismic zones (like California) and we'd be swapping out one problem for another. Tokyo is a concrete jungle, but the majority of those buildings have extensive rebar which is not feasible for low density development. Single family homes in Japan are all wood.

 

[DeepEnigma]

A feel good story that I hope happens to more people.

Man who lost his home in LA Fire overwhelmed as he’s reunited with lost dog after 5 days: ‘Oh my God, you’re alive!’

“Oh, honey! Oh my God, you’re alive! You’re alive!” Casey Colvin cries as his pet pooch Oreo leaps into his arms.

nypost.com

 

[ResilientBanana]

As they rebuild, they should make outdoor sprinkler systems a mandatory city code. Every new house should have them, along with back up reservoir. Same goes for city streets/street lights, build them in. It may also be worth it to carve up some of the mountains to slow the speed of gusting wind and potentially redirect it under the cities as opposed to over and across the cities, hire The Boring Company for something like this.

 

[Punished Miku]

If Elon Musk was in Karen Bass' position Miku would be calling for his head

I didnt say anything to defend Bass. She's a moron from the looks of it but a small time player. Fire her, sue her. Fine with me. I didnt call for the heads of republican government officials in Flint Michigan. I try to point out some of the bigger issues.

But if you think Musk cutting 2 trillion from the budget wont dwarf any damage Bass worsened with much more minor cuts, that literally doesnt even make sense.

You guys are all about accountability when it suits you. Im pointing out additional factors that also need accountability. Youre the ones dodging that not me.

 

[ÆMNE22A!C]

Can't shake the similarities regarding the great fires around 1910/20.

 

[EviLore]

As they rebuild, they should make outdoor sprinkler systems a mandatory city code. Every new house should have them, along with back up reservoir. Same goes for city streets/street lights, build them in. It may also be worth it to carve up some of the mountains to slow the speed of gusting wind and potentially redirect it under the cities as opposed to over and across the cities, hire The Boring Company for something like this.

 

[DeepEnigma]

As they rebuild, they should make outdoor sprinkler systems a mandatory city code. Every new house should have them, along with back up reservoir. Same goes for city streets/street lights, build them in. It may also be worth it to carve up some of the mountains to slow the speed of gusting wind and potentially redirect it under the cities as opposed to over and across the cities.

Outdoor sprinklers will never be mandatory in a place that does rolling blackouts and water usage restrictions. All while failing to capture record rainwater and dumping it into the ocean, or receiving federal US taxpayer funds for storage tanks, instead embezzling it per usual.

 

[ManaByte]

But if you think Musk cutting 2 trillion from the budget wont dwarf any damage Bass worsened with much more minor cuts, that literally doesnt even make sense.

He’s talking about cutting stupid shit like DEI training for dolphins in the Navy. Not crucial stuff like city firefighting budgets that the federal government has no jurisdiction over. Are you eating paint chips?

 

[Punished Miku]

He’s talking about cutting stupid shit like DEI training for dolphins in the Navy. Not crucial stuff like city firefighting budgets that the federal government has no jurisdiction over. Are you eating paint chips?

That's impossible by the way. None of that adds up to 2 trillion. What else do you think he will cut besides the dolphins?

And I don't know why you're so sure they wouldn't also cut firefighting budgets and privatize it.

 

[ManaByte]

And I don't know why you're so sure they wouldn't also cut firefighting budgets and privatize it.

Because the federal government has nothing to do with city budgets?

 

[DeepEnigma]

He’s talking about cutting stupid shit like DEI training for dolphins in the Navy. Not crucial stuff like city firefighting budgets that the federal government has no jurisdiction over. Are you eating paint chips?

That's impossible by the way. None of that adds up to 2 trillion. What else do you think he will cut besides the dolphins?

And I don't know why you're so sure they wouldn't also cut firefighting budgets and privatize it.

You are being pedantic and painfully obtuse.

The government is too big and too inefficient. There are trillions in unnecessary spending that goes beyond his one example. From $10,000 hammers to $50,000 toilet seats and beyond. From unnecessary bureaucratic letter agencies, to thousands of people on a bloated taxpayer salary who don't actually do a single thing for the government to function. Just money sink with "legal" theft of our tax dollars.

Expand your talking points beyond surface level establishment media.

 

[diffusionx]

That's impossible by the way. None of that adds up to 2 trillion. What else do you think he will cut besides the dolphins?

And I don't know why you're so sure they wouldn't also cut firefighting budgets and privatize it.

pretty sure you can cut a trillion without too much trouble.

Federal Net Outlays as Percent of Gross Domestic Product

Graph and download economic data for Federal Net Outlays as Percent of Gross Domestic Product (FYONGDA188S) from 1929 to 2023 about outlays, federal, Net, GDP, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

feds spent 22.2% of GDP in 2023. That is $6.08T. It's also part of that gradual upward slope you see in the graph. If you get down to the Bush years in the early 2000s, that is around 18.5%, and about $5.07T. Does anyone really think the government is doing so much more and so much better that it needs $1T more than it did when Bush was President? Not talking about Eisenhower here. Also note that $1T is entirely deficit spending as the government ran, IIRC, about a $400B deficit under Bush and is now more like $1.8T.

If you want to talk about California, its budget is 44% higher than it was in 2003 in constant dollars:

https://dof.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/352/About_Us/history/appendix/appendix-state-budget-history.pdf

I wonder if you go around and ask Californians if they think their government is doing 44% more than it did in 2003 what they would say.

 

[Punished Miku]

Because the federal government has nothing to do with city budgets?

They privatized water in Flint Michigan. They want to privatize anything they can and cut it from federal spending. Education, medical, social security, post office. He can move on to funding races at every level, locally and internationally. Play dumb though. Shows how genuine your outrage is.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Outdoor sprinklers will never be mandatory in a place that does rolling blackouts and water usage restrictions. All while failing to capture record rainwater and dumping it into the ocean, or use federal US taxpayer funds for storage tanks, instead embezzling it per usual.

I get that, but laws should be put in place to accommodate this. An emergency reservoir should be put in place as to satiate this need untouched by rich people's sprinklers. Considering that these would only be used in an emergency such as imminent fire damage, they literally have a whole ocean at their disposal. While salt water wouldn't be the best idea, they literally live in a desert where it's dry enough to burn a whole city down. If they're truly worried about the salt, then pump, treat and evaporate the water, then put the fresh water in a said reservoir. Then, discard or sell the sea salt. It may not be the ultimate answer, but doing nothing didn't seem to stop a whole city from burning. This opportunity could create jobs and income in the process.


EDIT: I just realized the diversion of the Santa Ana winds in my previous response, could also produce electricity if done correctly.

 

[ManaByte]

They privatized water in Flint Michigan.

The federal government didn’t do that. Michigan did. Again you have no clue what you’re talking about. Do you even live in the US and know how things work here?

 

[Punished Miku]

The federal government didn’t do that. Michigan did. Again you have no clue what you’re talking about. Do you even live in the US and know how things work here?

Yeah, this conversation is over. Have fun with your BS thread I guess. Post some more wiggle dances. Really getting to the important issues.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yeah, this conversation is over. Have fun with your BS thread I guess. Post some more wiggle dances. Really getting to the important issues.

Zero introspection.

 

[ManaByte]

Yeah, this conversation is over. Have fun with your BS thread I guess. Post some more wiggle dances. Really getting to the important issues.

So you have no response. Ok.

 

[jason10mm]

The issue there is having the water in the first place. And having the homes back to back to back in row after row. Even a brick exterior with a metal roof probably couldn't stop a fire from spreading from building to building at that density. But I bet it would help slow the spread enough for firefighters to get it under control.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

For you guys above talking about cutting gov fat, according to a google check the US has about 3M federal workers and 20M state/local workers. The avg wage of a federal worker is $100k.

If the gov trimmed 1% of federal workers (30,000) while keeping everything else about the gov the exact same the gov would save $3B in salaries alone. And that excludes benefits and future pensions.

The federal gov spent $769B on contracts. Another measly 1% savings negotiating better would save about almost $8B. And everyone knows gov are the biggest idiots when it comes to agreeing to contract fees. E very company drools at gov contracts because they pay a lot. Make it 5% and that's almost $40B.

Compared to $2T cuts, it doesn't sound like a lot. But I'm lowballing modest savings. There can be even more people cuts, negotiating fees and cutting programs/services/handouts/charity donations entirely which can add to the savings. Also, the amount of interest paid to service the debt is insane. So you not only save on upfront cuts, but it'll slow down interest fees accelerating too.

 

[ÆMNE22A!C]

Not saying this was planned but island X, blue, flora intact, privately owned water resovair, etc etc catching some dejavu vibes. What a crazy sad time.

 

[Kacho]

I didnt say anything to defend Bass. She's a moron from the looks of it but a small time player. Fire her, sue her. Fine with me. I didnt call for the heads of republican government officials in Flint Michigan. I try to point out some of the bigger issues.

But if you think Musk cutting 2 trillion from the budget wont dwarf any damage Bass worsened with much more minor cuts, that literally doesnt even make sense.

You guys are all about accountability when it suits you. Im pointing out additional factors that also need accountability. Youre the ones dodging that not me.

Everyone is about accountability after a disaster of this magnitude occurs and gross incompetence rears its ugly head. Wildfires in California are an ever present threat. Climate change is known issue that contributes to the likelihood of a fire starting and spreading rapidly. Their lack of preparedness is inexcusable and the blame falls on the mayor, the governor, fire department leadership, and likely many others. The optics are bad for everyone here, so any attempt to minimize the role they played reflects poorly on you.

But please, get on your soapbox to lecture everyone about Musk for the millionth time in a thread about the wildfires.

 

[DeepEnigma]

And everyone knows gov are the biggest idiots when it comes to agreeing to contract fees.

That's by design. They're not idiots, they just grease the palms of their lobbyists and bureaucrats with said contracts.

 

[ÆMNE22A!C]

They know what their orders are Beige

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The issue there is having the water in the first place. And having the homes back to back to back in row after row. Even a brick exterior with a metal roof probably couldn't stop a fire from spreading from building to building at that density. But I bet it would help slow the spread enough for firefighters to get it under control.

Materials is IMO the biggest factor. Then services, watter supply, firefighter numbers etc... That's why when it comes to fires, the biggest ones by a trillion miles are giant forest fires. It's all wood, hardly any firefighters or water supplies, so it gets to a point the fire crew cant do anything but let it fizzle out itself.

On the other hand, you rarely get giant plots of land in cities burning. Ya there's hydrants and fire stations around, but if the city has lots of brick or concrete buildings or roads, there's only so fast a fire can spread. But in a dry forest or place where homes are mostly wood it goes wide and fast.

In order for a brick house and metal or fire resistant roof shingle to burn down, I dont think it can even get to ashes or pebbles to the ground. The insides might get torched and windows blown out, but the houses will probably stay in tact pretty well.

 

[Madserb2023]

I understand the issue with earthquakes but there are plenty of places around the world that have earthquake where the houses are not wood. Expensive or not, most buildings should not be wood. Phoenix is a time bomb and I don't believe it's prone to quakes. Most hot countries especially places like Spain have almost no wooden houses, just stone mainly. You get fire all the time In Spain but they don't spread much. The Romans used bricks for that reason and Rome has quakes.

 

[ManaByte]

Everyone is about accountability after a disaster of this magnitude occurs and gross incompetence rears its ugly head. Wildfires in California are an ever present threat. Climate change is known issue that contributes to the likelihood of a fire starting and spreading rapidly. Their lack of preparedness is inexcusable and the blame falls on the mayor, the governor, fire department leadership, and likely many others. The optics are bad for everyone here, so any attempt to minimize the role they played reflects poorly on you.

But please, get on your soapbox to lecture everyone about Musk for the millionth time in a thread about the wildfires.

This has happened before. Gray Davis let San Diego burn because the areas on fire didn’t vote for him. He got recalled.

The problem is in 2025 it’s impossible to recall a politician in CA so there is no accountability in this fire.

Ballot harvesting is legal, asking to see an ID to vote is illegal. The SEIU will truck in as many ballots as they need to beat a recall.

 

[diffusionx]

I understand the issue with earthquakes but there are plenty of places around the world that have earthquake where the houses are not wood. Expensive or not, most buildings should not be wood. Phoenix is a time bomb and I don't believe it's prone to quakes. Most hot countries especially places like Spain have almost no wooden houses, just stone mainly. You get fire all the time In Spain but they don't spread much. The Romans used bricks for that reason and Rome has quakes.

The USA is a young country and our mentality is different. Population of California has quadrupled since the 1950s. Phoenix's population has doubled since the 1980s. You can't do that with stone houses.

Now you can question if whether or not it is a good idea to have so many people in these places but that's how it is.

 

[ÆMNE22A!C]

SmartLA 2028 | Information Technology Agency

ita.lacity.gov

 

[Madserb2023]

The USA is a young country and our mentality is different. Population of California has quadrupled since the 1950s. Phoenix's population has doubled since the 1980s. You can't do that with stone houses.

Now you can question if whether or not it is a good idea to have so many people in these places but that's how it is.

I get it and most third world countries with fast growing populations build out of wood but the US is far from poor. The population is also not growing as fast as it was. Also there are plenty of cities in the US that grew really fast in the 19th century, significantly faster than now and the house were brick. This is purely for profit reasons. I had a fire near me and it just burnt down one house and it was in the middle of a long row house/terrace. The fire didn't spread even a metre. This doesn't have to happen.

 

[Uhtred]

I live in what was the get ready to get out zone, I want heads and asses to roll! This was fkn unacceptable! They let this fire burn uncontrollably for 48 hours before doing anything

 

[JayK47]

I think it is dumb to simply say this was caused by global warming. That ignores so much. Besides the loss of life and property, these fires are also adding a lot of CO2 into the atmosphere. For at least the last 10 years I have had to deal with smoke from California and Canadian fires almost year round. This issue was caused by lack of forest management, which is somewhat recent. The poor air quality, the added CO2. That doesn't sound very green to me. That doesn't sound very environmentally friendly to me. Yet, look where this is happening.

I actually care about reducing CO2 emissions, but why bother when I am surrounded by idiots who dump tons of it into the air year round because they let their forests burn for some BS reason or another. If I am going to be breathing poor air quality like what was in LA back in the 70s, I may as well enjoy driving my gas guzzler.

Immense hypocrisy from these states and countries, demanding their citizens reduce their carbon footprint, while they let their forests burn.

 

[AJUMP23]

Did climate change ban Punished Miku ?

 

[diffusionx]

I get it and most third world countries with fast growing populations build out of wood but the US is far from poor. The population is also not growing as fast as it was. Also there are plenty of cities in the US that grew really fast in the 19th century, significantly faster than now and the house were brick. This is purely for profit reasons. I had a fire near me and it just burnt down one house and it was in the middle of a long row house/terrace. The fire didn't spread even a metre. This doesn't have to happen.

Well, that's not really true, prior generations cut down gazillions of acres of old growth forest to build houses, and deforested whole states. Not totally unlike what happened in Europe in the Middle Ages. And on the aggregate yes US population is slowing overall but there is lots of migration towards the Southeast and Southwest.

I'm not even saying it's a bad idea to use more durable building materials, just saying what happened.

 

[Madserb2023]

Well, that's not really true, prior generations cut down gazillions of acres of old growth forest to build houses, and deforested whole states. Not totally unlike what happened in Europe in the Middle Ages. And on the aggregate yes US population is slowing overall but there is lots of migration towards the Southeast and Southwest.

I'm not even saying it's a bad idea to use more durable building materials, just saying what happened.

It's very similar to how Europe developed and most medieval cities were completely made out of wood and almost all burnt down at one time or another. London burnt down actually several times, Lubeck, Munich, almost every city in the Netherlands including Amsterdam. They built the brick version afterwards that you see now. However by the 18th century the Europeans caught on that it wasn't a good idea. You have history to look at and you are starting at a higher level of understanding than Medieval Europe. It's just one of those strange enigmas of America. All countries have their quirks. I live in the UK and our roads are bizarrely terrible.