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[belgurdo]

Honestly, Playmore sucks. NeoGeo tech is old as dirt, and as much as I love 2D fighters (nobody that knows me can dispute this) the fact of the matter is Playmore continues to drag SNK's good name through the mud with their crappy games, and worse yet, on hardware that was long outdated. Bash Capcom all you want for their low res sprites, but they at least moved on from CPS2 a long time ago.

What does this have to do with MS3 not being released?

And the only bad game Playmore has made in Metal Slug 4, and they didn't even make it.

 

[shoplifter]

I'll never forgive SCEA for axing Shadow Tower Abyss, though. There was no reason to do that.

Because it needed said again.

 

[MoxManiac]

It has to do with it because Playmore wants full price for their crap.

The last good KOF was 2000.

 

[GigaDrive]

from last year:

Snk- PLAYMORE USA CORP.
5252, Orange Avenue.
Suite, No. 208, Cypress.
CA, 90630, Or S. A.

Present date: SEA. 28./07,/2003

Dear Mr..
I am a fan to recreational arcades of sprites; and to the drawing
animations cómic. Please they could Udes. give answer to the
questions, that I will happen to formulate next, on hard and software
of videojuegos.:

1º. _ Neon Geo MVS, was the recreational console of arcade, more
impressive of the generation of the 16 bits. Today nevertheless it
goes very behind the new machines like: Cps-3, Naomi, Game Cube, or
Ps-2. SNK developed later, new Neon versions Geo more outposts than
MVS: (Neon Star -32bits -, Hyper Neon Geo 64, and SNK-Millennium -128
bits -). But they were not able to leave ahead in the market
recreational arcade. Why.


_ For when it designs SNK-Playmore, a new Neon version Geo, more
outpost than its present system MVS/AES, in the next years. It could
be, along with similar Sony Ps-3, and Microsoft X-Box 2, and other
systems, for the next generation of 256 bits.

_ SNK-Playmore will stay like manufacturer of entertainment and games
arcade, upper middle range, or will look for in the future, to reduce
to costs in a lower middle range, when arcade for the domestic market
designs its next video consoles, unlike Neo-Geo _ 16 bits.

_ Volvera'n to work in a future, for SNK-Playmore, companies Japanese
developers like: ADK, East Data, Is born, Saurus, Psikyo,
Banpresto.... If it will not be thus, why.

_ SNK-Playmore, will continue centered in developing single to games
arcades of competition fight and ships (or shoot em' ups). Or it will
work in the future, more in other sorts arcade, like: platforms, beat
em' ups, some of cars (as good as "World Rally" ?Gaelco?), and to work
in new arcades warlike, (to part of? Slug Metal, ?Nazca/SNK?).


2º. _ Future what will be able to have sprites 2D in ahead: They are a
graphical sort dead, that tends to disappear in a future not very
distant, and to be replaced by the polygons-renders 3D. Or on the
contrary, the companies will be able to design in the future, a new
generation of sprites, for graphs of drawing cómic, more complex or
advanced than present 2D.
Why they cross at the moment the drawing animations cómic, based on
sprites 2D, a progressive exhaustion, that takes to combinations 2D to
them/3D.

_ Why SNK, did not get to design no recreational arcade, based on
sprites 2D, for the console arcade Hyper Neon Geo 64, if its
architecture for graphs to of drawing cómic, (1536 sprites 2D) were
muy.superior.a MVS (380). And they as much insisted on the graphs of
polygons-renders 3D.


SNK-Millennium (128 bits), was a single console arcade designed to
develop on her, recreational 3D of polygons, unlike Hyper Neon Geo 64.
Why.

Why with the polygons 3D, is not obtained in the animations, a as good
quality of drawing cómic as the one that is obtained at the present
time, with sprites 2D.

_ That companies developer, will be interested in working with
sprites, in the future, in designing new works of animations of
drawing cómic, for recreational arcade.
Why they will not be among them, companies like: Taito, Irem, Konami,o
Namco, among other developers.

_ That implies to move drawing animations cómic, with an increasing
number of sprites 2D, if with a number of 380 - 1536, (with
architectures of 16 and 64 bits), already it seems that the top of its
perfection has been reached, and does not seem that it is possible to
be gone far much more in the future unlike recreational arcade 3D of
polygons-renders.
Where 2D will be the limit for sprites, for the future recreational
console designs of arcade.

_ What improvements introduced, the elements: chaín, mosaic, mesh,
movement UPRL, montagin, that developed by Hyper hardware Neon Geo 64?
New what will be able to be developed to design new animations of
drawing cómic, in the future.


3º. _ Why the games arcade of the moment (like: Slug 3, _ SNK, 1999 _
p. ej.), does not have a greater argument, designing itself the final
scenes, very short and poor; and videos or scenes are not introduced
kinematics, of animations of sprites, as we were able to advance or to
enter themselves through arcade and to change of action scene.
Jugables cortometrajes will be able to be designed, for future
recreational arcades, more complex than the present ones, cradles in
animations of drawing - cómic, sprites 2D.


4º. _ Why great differences of graphical and sonorous quality do not
exist, between a console of games arcade, like a specialized
architecture, and a domestic computer PC, like an architecture
multimedia, more general. In favor of the videoconsolas of
recreational arcade. (Like comparing two equipment of audio: one
of?High-End range, with another one of a range?media?
Separate subject, is the price of software, (72, 12 ?), muy.superior.a
a DVD Audio/Vídeo (21 ?)...

_ So that the consoles of games arcade, stop being specific machines,
and they approach the basic architecture more and more, of a computer
PC. Logical evolution of these platforms of domestic entertainment
towards architecture PC. Why.

_ the CPU of the console arcade, is not it everything, that functions
fulfill the other components of an internal architecture of hardware,
so that, between a Super Nintendo or a SEGA - Drive Mega, and the Neon
Geo MVS (of 16 bits, all of them), is as much difference in graphs and
sound.
What differences can exist between, a recreational console of arcade
professional and a domestic console of entertainment, at the present
time.

so, the text that I put in bold shows us that SNK developed a 128-Bit platform, the 'SNK Millenium' to do 3D polygon graphics. obviously it never went into service. the Katana/Dreamcast/NAOMI based Atomiswave now fills the role intended for the above mentioned 'SNK Millenium'. Okay, pure speculation, but my guess is, Sega's hardware is probably better than the 'SNK Millenium', though we'll probably never know for sure. I say this because SNK's previous effort, the Hyper Neo Geo 64, that did go into limited service in arcades, was barely any better in 3D than the 32-Bit PlayStation / System 11. So Unless SNK went out-of-house to a good 3D chip provider like Nvidia, 3Dfx, etc., I kinda doubt the SNK Millenium platform was as good as NAOMI/Dreamcast-based Atomiswave.

moving on.....

then the SNK president also mentions a possible future SNK-Playmore
platform, of the same generation as Xbox 2 - NintendoRevolution - PlayStation3. I hope this '256-Bit' SNK system is actually indeed in development, for use after Atomiswave. yes I know bits is a meaningless measurement, just using it for quickness sake. I hope also, that this possible future SNK system is going to be a home platform, like the 16-Bit MVS/AES. Now, it is one thing to simply *wish* for another NeoGeo. but when the President of SNK-Playmore mentions 5 generations of NeoGeo hardware, 2 of these saw the light of day (16-Bit MVS/AES, 64-Bit Hyper Neo Geo 64), another 2 that never saw the light of day (32-Bit NeoStar, 128-Bit SNK Millenium) and the remaining one as a possible future platform, I feel the possibility this definitally there for another Neo Geo.

 

[belgurdo]

It has to do with it because Playmore wants full price for their crap.

The last good KOF was 2003.

fixed

 

[anotheriori]

The last good KOF was 2000.

Quoted for emphasis.

 

[evilromero]

I'll buy your games SNK. And if you put them on the Cube I'll buy two copies of each just to suade you to the lightside.

 

[Baron Aloha]

The last good KOF was 2002.

Third times the charm.

 

[MoxManiac]

NEVER!!!11

DOWN WITH PLAYMORE

UP WITH MINISKIRTS

 

[Hero]

What happened to SvC:Chaos?

 

[The Promised One]

I think they would have a hell-of-a-lot less problems with pirates (AAAAARRR!!!), is they stopp releasing their games for and outdated as hell system, that almost no one owns anymore, that requires each game be $300 a pop. Guess what, I've pirated Metal Slug 3-5. Why? Because I refuse to pay $900 for them. I have bought the XBOX version of MS3 though, and plan on buying the 4 & 5 collection once it comes out.

See guys, release your games on a system people actually own, and for a reasonable price, and people wil indeed buy your games.

 

[atomiswave]

well based on the interview, it seems as if SNK is trying to use the atomiswave only to avoid piracy issues, not to enhance their sprites to todays standards... (today would be CPS III or better) but thats not anything new, its SNKPlaymore we are talking about, they might focus on 3d if MI does fairly good.

 

[anotheriori]

"There is no reason why the system could not be used now and in the future,” [Koyama] said. “Our games regularly are in the top earnings chart for the Japanese arcade industry – players can see the gameplay value of what we offer and we have not been held back by the hardware platform we use..."

DAMN YOU graphic whores!
well.. even tho.. i want my updated sprites. Atleast SNK knows its Gameplay >> Graphics.

 

[SolidSnakex]

What does this have to do with MS3 not being released?

And the only bad game Playmore has made in Metal Slug 4, and they didn't even make it.

Well Sony didn't prevent them from releasing MS3 in the US, they were trying to prevent them from releasing it at a full price. Then they go and basically make Sony's argument for them by releasing MS4 and MS5 for the same price that they tried to release MS3 for in the US on the PS2.

 

[boutrosinit]

It has to do with it because Playmore wants full price for their crap.

The last good KOF was 2000.

Clearly your knowledge of SNK games is whack. King of Fighters 2002 is easily one of the best of the series and 2003 - although not as balanced as 2002 - is a hell of a lot of fun. 96 and 97 were ass.

As for your other point, the audience SNK go for often don't mind paying up full price for its games. Of course SNK wants to break the masses and that requires a differet strategy...

 

[boutrosinit]

What happened to SvC:Chaos?

It came out and stank out every arcade it was in. Not SNK's finest moment...

 

[anotheriori]

Goes to show that most of the SNK talent is gone, aside from rehashing tried and true franchises most of the new stuff sucks or is mediocre at best thats why imo 2000 is the last snk kof. 98 is still better then 2002.

 

[Hero]

It came out and stank out every arcade it was in. Not SNK's finest moment...

Yeah but is it coming out here?

 

[DarkCloud]

Yeah but is it coming out here?

Coming to the US as an Xbox exclusive with Live support sometime between September and November.

Europe no idea (though Metal Slug 3 is making it over so the chances are good), and in Japan it was on the PS2 with an Xbox version slated for later this year.

 

[seismologist]

I dont have time for games. If they're not releasing anything on the PS2 I guess I'll just find another way to play it....

 

[jarrod]

Well Sony didn't prevent them from releasing MS3 in the US, they were trying to prevent them from releasing it at a full price. Then they go and basically make Sony's argument for them by releasing MS4 and MS5 for the same price that they tried to release MS3 for in the US on the PS2.

We don't know that actually, all we know is that Metal Slug 3 (and now probably the 4&5 bundle) were blocked by SCEA. And really, we don't know why beyond a few offhand comments from SNK officials about the games being 2D. If 4&5 have been blocked as well though, it's doubfull pricing concerns were at the heart of the issue...

 

[levious]

I think SVC is a good game. I just can't get over that you cannot (apparently) charge down/up and back/forward moves at the same time (Guile's Sonic Boom and Flash Kick for instance).

 

[MoxManiac]

SvC is terrible. I can't believe the hack job they did to Hugo.

I can't stand 2002. The new characters are horrible, and the backgrounds and music, while not as bad as 2001, is still awful. The hit detection seems wonky too.

 

[Hero]

What are the chances of Street Fighter 4 if the SFAC sells well here?

I really would like another Darkstalkers game too. Or Rival Schools. Blah.

 

[SolidSnakex]

We don't know that actually, all we know is that Metal Slug 3 (and now probably the 4&5 bundle) were blocked by SCEA. And really, we don't know why beyond a few offhand comments from SNK officials about the games being 2D. If 4&5 have been blocked as well though, it's doubfull pricing concerns were at the heart of the issue...

Well it sounds like it was SNK's own decision more than anything by that comment "WE decided to make it Xbox exclusive.". If Sony would've shot it down then there would've been no real deciding because it'd been Xbox exclusive unless they wanted to do a GC version which they've shown no interest in. Sony doesn't seem to have any problems with pack in games, they've been letting them through with no real problem. It's just trying to release old games at full price isn't going to happen with them. SNK just reads that as Sony being against 2D games, But it's more about them being against overpriced games.

 

[jarrod]

Well it sounds like it was SNK's own decision more than anything by that comment "WE decided to make it Xbox exclusive.". If Sony would've shot it down then there would've been no real deciding because it'd been Xbox exclusive unless they wanted to do a GC version which they've shown no interest in.

SNK's decision was to stop resubmitting after SCEA denied Metal Slug 3, that's about it. "We decided" sounds more like PR saving face than anything.... if it really were up to SNK Metal Slug 3 would've recieved a US PS2 release last November for $39.

Sony doesn't seem to have any problems with pack in games, they've been letting them through with no real problem. It's just trying to release old games at full price isn't going to happen with them. SNK just reads that as Sony being against 2D games, But it's more about them being against overpriced games.

Again, there's not really any hard evidence to support that, especially here. The only concrete details we have are SCEA failing MS3, and offhand comments from SNK about SCEA not permitting 2D games generally. If SCEA has no problem with collections, and yet they failed MS4&5, I'd like to hear some reasoning behind that...

Also, $39 isn't the industry standard full price.

 

[SolidSnakex]

"The only concrete details we have are SCEA failing MS3, and offhand comments from SNK about SCEA not permitting 2D games generally."

Then you've got stuff like GGX getting released over here at full price. Along with double packs of games like Growlanser. Sony's stance seems fairly clear i'd say.

"Also, $39 isn't the industry standard full price. "

It's Sony's standard though and they don't want an old game being priced the same as their new ones. You've also go something like Gradius V coming up which is running on an up to date engine and is completely new only having a 29.99 price tag. That makes it make even less sense for MS3 to be priced at more than that.

 

[jarrod]

"The only concrete details we have are SCEA failing MS3, and offhand comments from SNK about SCEA not permitting 2D games generally."

Then you've got stuff like GGX getting released over here at full price. Along with double packs of games like Growlanser. Sony's stance seems fairly clear i'd say.

Actaully, I'd say SCEA's standards are anything but clear. Bringing up other games as evidence doesn't hold much relevance to Metal Slug 3's failing (which SNK has hinted is due more to it's 2D visuals than anything else). If Metal Slug 4-5 really got canceled as well, being a lower priced collection, I'd say that lends more credence to what they're saying than what you are.

""Also, $39 isn't the industry standard full price. "

It's Sony's standard though and they don't want an old game being priced the same as their new ones. You've also go something like Gradius V coming up which is running on an up to date engine and is completely new only having a 29.99 price tag. That makes it make even less sense for MS3 to be priced at more than that.

Sony's standard isn't the industry standard however, so why should they supplant it as such? Last I checked, EA, Nintendo, THQ, Activision, Konami and several other key publishers outsold them....

 

[SolidSnakex]

"Actaully, I'd say SCEA's standards are anything but clear. Bringing up other games as evidence doesn't hold much relevance to Metal Slug 3's failing (which SNK has hinted is due more to it's 2D visuals than anything else)."

It's all about pricing. As shown by the release on the Xbox, it's obvious that they wanted a 40 dollar pricetag. Ofcourse SNK is going to hint at it being because it's 2D, because that's what they believe. They simply ignore all the other 2D games that Sony allows on the PS2. Which completely ruins that point of Sony saying no to all 2D games and yes to all 3D games. They're bitter because Sony won't let them release it at the price they want.

"Sony's standard isn't the industry standard however, so why should they supplant it as such?"

Because it makes no sense for them to create a brand new game and release it at that price while another company is taking an old game on an old engine and trying to release it at the same price as Sony's new ones. Other companies seem to understand the pricing of these old games except SNK. Look at Majesco who's about to release GGX2 Reload on the Xbox with Live support. Guess how much it is? Yep that's right, 19.99. It's not even a PS2 game if they wanted it at a full price they could release it at that. They just know it gives it a much better chance of selling like this than it would at a full price. They also realise, unlike SNK, that the game is old and there's a new version coming out of it very seen. So it makes sense for it to be priced like that.

 

[anotheriori]

but SNK has always catered to the niche fanbase who are willing to pay that amount for their games.

 

[inpHilltr8r]

Who cares about the price, they broke the fucking game with that dumb-ass single credit thing. Now the only way I'm going to see the end is through MAME.

 

[jarrod]

It's all about pricing.

Again, you can infer that but you can't really prove it. And SNK says otherwise.

Ofcourse SNK is going to hint at it being because it's 2D, because that's what they believe.

Wouldn't they believe what SCEA tells them? Or doesn't SCEA product approval let publishers in on why their software failed?

They're bitter because Sony won't let them release it at the price they want.

I dunno, why would SCEA fail Metal Slug 4&5 then? It fits all the criteria SCEA suppossedly uses to pass "old" games... so if SCEA's product approval standards are so clear, tell me why?

SNK doesn't strike me as the bitter nonsensical party in this thread. ;P

Because it makes no sense for them to create a brand new game and release it at that price while another company is taking an old game on an old engine and trying to release it at the same price as Sony's new ones.

So you're saying SCEA's failing rival games in order to protect perception of their own software then?

Other companies seem to understand the pricing of these old games except SNK. Look at Majesco who's about to release GGX2 Reload on the Xbox with Live support. Guess how much it is? Yep that's right, 19.99. It's not even a PS2 game if they wanted it at a full price they could release it at that. They just know it gives it a much better chance of selling like this than it would at a full price. They also realise, unlike SNK, that the game is old and there's a new version coming out of it very seen. So it makes sense for it to be priced like that.

So... why does SCEA have to make this decision for SNK? Why can't the market decide what's fair price for Metal Slug 3? Why does SCEA feel the need to limit our options?

 

[SolidSnakex]

"Wouldn't they believe what SCEA tells them? Or doesn't SCEA product approval let publishers in on why their software failed?"

Well I doubt Sony said they can't release 2D games on their system when they just released KoF 2000 and 2001 on the PS2 along with a bunch of other 2D games Sony has allowed on the system. So going by this, all signs point to this being a price issue. The canning of games for them being 2D simply doesn't work when 2D games are released on the system.

"I dunno, why would SCEA fail Metal Slug 4&5 then?"

We don't know that they did. They've greenlight other games that were packed together (as shown above, even one of SNK's own games), I don't see why they'd suddenly turn against it.

" Why can't the market decide what's fair price for Metal Slug 3?"

They have control over their system and what content is released on it. They've banned hentai games in Japan and they can control what sort of content and what pricing games on their systems get released at. It's also not like they're saying "You can't release this no matter what you do" they're telling them what they need to do to release it. SNK just doesn't want to do it.

 

[jarrod]

Well I doubt Sony said they can't release 2D games on their system when they just released KoF 2000 and 2001 on the PS2 along with a bunch of other 2D games Sony has allowed on the system. So going by this, all signs point to this being a price issue. The canning of games for them being 2D simply doesn't work when 2D games are released on the system.

So you're saying SNK officials just aren't telling the truth then? Because they've implied it was due to Metal Slug 3's visuals.

We don't know that they did. They've greenlight other games that were packed together (as shown above, even one of SNK's own games), I don't see why they'd suddenly turn against it.

According to Koyama they did it seems. Explain SCEA's "clear standards" for me again please?

They have control over their system and what content is released on it. They've banned hentai games in Japan and they can control what sort of content and what pricing games on their systems get released at.

Sounds like 1980s Nintendo.

It's also not like they're saying "You can't release this no matter what you do" they're telling them what they need to do to release it. SNK just doesn't want to do it.

You can't prove that though. All you've said is SCEA does let other 2D games slide (either as collections or budget priced) and that SNK officials are liars. Have anything pertinent to Metal Slug 3 in particular to support your theory?

 

[Hero]

I still fail to see the 'problem' with SNK releasing MS3 on PS2 at a 40 dollar price tag.

How would it hurt Sony again?

 

[seismologist]

Games sitting on the shelf at retailers and not selling
probably comes back to bite Sony somehow.

You think stores like CC like dumping half their game inventory for $5 a pop?
They probably just wont order as many games next time.

 

[SolidSnakex]

"So you're saying SNK officials just aren't telling the truth then? Because they've implied it was due to Metal Slug 3's visuals."

That's exactly what i'm saying. Lets take this guys statement and analyze it a bit. We'll only talk about facts here so MS 4 and 5 are out since we have no idea why they aren't coming to the PS2 and his quote makes it seem like it could be because Sony canned it for being 2D or because SNK wants it to be Xbox exclusive.

The problem with his argument is this:

1.) He's arguing that Sony is against 2D. This simply doesn't work when GGX, Growlanser and Street Fighter Anniversary are coming up.

2.) He argues that Sony lets any 3D game through no matter how crappy it is. Once again this doesn't work as Charlies Angels and Shadow Tower Abyss were both canned by Sony despite both being 3D and in CA's, a really crappy game (which accoridng to him would've still met Sony's criteria).

Now based on this we can draw 2 conclusions.

1.) This guys simply bitter about how Sony controls pricing on their system. He's ticked at having to constantly go over it with Sony about prices with games and have just decided to stop supporting the PS2 in the US.

2.) Sony, for whatever reason, has it out for SNK. As I mentioned above they're allowing 2D games through so that's very clearly not the reason games are canned.

For me, i'm going with the price issue. There are way too many signs pointing toward that being it. Just because SNK "hints" at it being because the games are 2D, that means nothing when there are 2D games on the system. So since this guy seems so eager to speak out on Sony he should just step up and lay everything out. Don't "hint" at stuff, come right out an say what Sony's told them. It doesn't really matter now as Sony either canning all their games or they're just removing them from the PS2. It just seems very strange that Sony's allowing other companies 2D games through but for SNK they don't do it. So there's something there and i'm thinking it's pricing. Just another sign of this, Capcom is releasing the SF Anniversary at 29.99, while SNK is releasing the KoF 2002/2003 pack for 39.99.

 

[DarkCloud]

Just another sign of this, Capcom is releasing the SF Anniversary at 29.99, while SNK is releasing the KoF 2002/2003 pack for 39.99.

HSF2 is a mishmash of a 10+ year old game and SF3 is almost 8 years old...it's bargain price is deserved especially on the PS2 where it's lacking netcode.

KoF 2002 is barely 2 years old and KoF2003 was just recently released...they could get away with charging 30$ just for 2002. Let alone 40-50 just for 2003.

 

[Hero]

Also, Capcom has a bit more weight than SNK does. If SCEA pissed off Capcom by not letting them release SFAC I'm sure they might reconsider some PS2 exclusive games, whereas SNK really doesn't have anything to offer.

 

[MoxManiac]

3rd strike is more like 5-6 years old, and bitchslaps every single one of SNK's Neogeo titles visually, so I'd say that was a factor for SCEA. Not that I think it's right to make judgements like that based on visual quality, but it's SCEA's likely POV.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Also, Capcom has a bit more weight than SNK does. If SCEA pissed off Capcom by not letting them release SFAC I'm sure they might reconsider some PS2 exclusive games, whereas SNK really doesn't have anything to offer.

Well people say that Sony canned Capcom's Gregory Horror Show. So obviously they don't really care who you're, they'll can a game if they want.

"KoF 2002 is barely 2 years old and KoF2003 was just recently released...they could get away with charging 30$ just for 2002. Let alone 40-50 just for 2003."

I guess you could make that argument. Although it still doesn't explain why MS3 runs for 39.99 on the XBox (also would've been its PS2 price) while they're releasing MS4 and MS5 for the same price, both of which are newer games.

 

[DarkCloud]

I guess you could make that argument. Although it still doesn't explain why MS3 runs for 39.99 on the XBox (also would've been its PS2 price) while they're releasing MS4 and MS5 for the same price, both of which are newer games.

Because 3 is seen as one of the best, if not the best, Metal Slug games in the series...while 4 & 5 are pretty much scoffed at. 3 still sells for 2-300+ on Ebay all these years later...and fans have been clamouring for an arcade perfect conversion for awhile now. SNK knew it could get away with selling it for 40$. However since 4 & 5 have no popularity a bundle pack is pretty much the only way it'll sell anything.

(And before anyone digs up npd numbers MS3 saw an extremely limited release...the stores I shop at got about 1-2 copies each if they even got any...and sold out shortly after that. i still have yet to see a copy outside of online dealers)

Plus they obviously have to make some consessions to get their titles onto the PS2...though apparantely it didn't work. Wonder what this'll mean for the new KoF and Samurai Shodown 5 bundle sets if MS4/5 bundle has gotten axed.

 

[jarrod]

"So you're saying SNK officials just aren't telling the truth then? Because they've implied it was due to Metal Slug 3's visuals."

That's exactly what i'm saying.

So it's your position that MS3 wasn't blocked due to it's visuals?

We'll only talk about facts here

So we won't be talking about fantasy pricing concerns, conspiracy theories against SNK, indirect comparisons to other 2Dish games (which are usually collections), SNK officials being bitter liars or Metal Slug 3 being failed for any reason besides it's 2D visuals?

so MS 4 and 5 are out since we have no idea why they aren't coming to the PS2 and his quote makes it seem like it could be because Sony canned it for being 2D or because SNK wants it to be Xbox exclusive.

More likely, I think we won't talk about MS4&5 because they destory your precious theory on SCEA product approval.

1.) He's arguing that Sony is against 2D. This simply doesn't work when GGX, Growlanser and Street Fighter Anniversary are coming up.

Well two of those are collections... still other game releases have little direct relevance to Metal Slug 3-5. In fact, I'd say MS3-5 are better looking than any of those besides 3rd Strike.

2.) He argues that Sony lets any 3D game through no matter how crappy it is. Once again this doesn't work as Charlies Angels and Shadow Tower Abyss were both canned by Sony despite both being 3D and in CA's, a really crappy game (which accoridng to him would've still met Sony's criteria).

I'd say it was less of an argument and more of a snide remark. Really though, do you believe 2D and 3D games are held to the exact same standards by SCEA? You don't think it's more likely for a bad polygonal game to slip through than a bad sprite based game?

1.) This guys simply bitter about how Sony controls pricing on their system. He's ticked at having to constantly go over it with Sony about prices with games and have just decided to stop supporting the PS2 in the US.

2.) Sony, for whatever reason, has it out for SNK. As I mentioned above they're allowing 2D games through so that's very clearly not the reason games are canned.

Because SCEA's product approval has always been the model of judicious fairness right?

Pretty limited conclusions you've come to here SSX, not that I'm all that surprised...

For me, i'm going with the price issue. There are way too many signs pointing toward that being it.

What you mean like MS4-5 being blocked or SNK officials spreading bitter lies about SCEA? The signs are longshot assumptions on your part almost exclusively.

Just because SNK "hints" at it being because the games are 2D, that means nothing when there are 2D games on the system.

Again, one doesn't neccessairly prove the other invalid. There seems to be little rhyme or reason to SCEA's product approval going by the few publisher accounts we've gotten.

So since this guy seems so eager to speak out on Sony he should just step up and lay everything out. Don't "hint" at stuff, come right out an say what Sony's told them.

Isn't that really what they just did in the interview? Or is it only valid when the comments are Sony's favor, otherwise it must all be lies right?

It doesn't really matter now as Sony either canning all their games or they're just removing them from the PS2. It just seems very strange that Sony's allowing other companies 2D games through but for SNK they don't do it. So there's something there and i'm thinking it's pricing.

Possibly, but again really there's nothing concrete to support that theory.

Just another sign of this, Capcom is releasing the SF Anniversary at 29.99, while SNK is releasing the KoF 2002/2003 pack for 39.99.

SF2/SF3 are relatively old while KOF 2002/2003 (and MS 4/5 for that matter) are relatively new. Try again.

 

[SolidSnakex]

"So it's your position that MS3 wasn't blocked due to it's visuals?"

It wasn't, and i'm not going to believe it was simply because Sony lets 2D games through.

"In fact, I'd say MS3-5 are better looking than any of those besides 3rd Strike."

Show MS3-5 to your average gamer and then show them GGX. I'd bet that nearly all of them would prefer GGX's visuals over MS3-5.

"Really though, do you believe 2D and 3D games are held to the exact same standards by SCEA? You don't think it's more likely for a bad polygonal game to slip through than a bad sprite based game?"

They might not be treated exactly the same. But there isn't this huge gap as SNK is making it out to be like.

"What you mean like MS4-5 being blocked or SNK officials spreading bitter lies about SCEA? The signs are longshot assumptions on your part almost exclusively."

Till we know it was canned, it's you that are doing longshot assumptions.

"Or is it only valid when the comments are Sony's favor, otherwise it must all be lies right? "

It's more valid when he comes out and says it. Don't hint about it, and don't say absurd crap like "Sony doesn't allow ANY 2D games on the PS2". Come out and say they canned MS4-5, and if you read that statement he never specifically says they canned it. Also what grounds are they going to have. Plus when someone talks like this guy it's very difficult to take him seriously. It sounds EXACTLY like Naka, Smilebit and all those other developers that were pissed off at Sony and started talking about how the PS2 wasn't capable of something like PSO or how it couldn't do JSR. Which was ofcourse bitterness as we know that now.


"SF2/SF3 are relatively old while KOF 2002/2003 (and MS 4/5 for that matter) are relatively new. Try again."

I already did with the MS3 / MS4 and 5 comparison. It was brought up that its because MS3 is better so it gets priced the same as 2 newer games but that doesn't really work. Fact is MS3 is the older game so it makes very little sense for it to have the same price than 2 new games combined.

The only thing I can think of is that Sony hates SNK. Because you still haven't explained why they're letting other games through but somehow SNK's don't get through. This is either because they don't like SNK or they don't approve of how SNK is trying to price their games. Like I said it seems more like them just being tired of having to change prices to suit what Sony wants when MS will let them price games at whatever they want. If it's proven that this is all because of Sony being against 2D, i'll admit I was wrong. I've got no problem with that. But till then i'm not believing it is.

 

[jarrod]

"So it's your position that MS3 wasn't blocked due to it's visuals?"

It wasn't, and i'm not going to believe it was simply because Sony lets 2D games through.

How about believeing it because SNK says so?

"In fact, I'd say MS3-5 are better looking than any of those besides 3rd Strike."

Show MS3-5 to your average gamer and then show them GGX. I'd bet that nearly all of them would prefer GGX's visuals over MS3-5.

Maybe if you showed them screenshots, otherwise I'm not so sure...

"Really though, do you believe 2D and 3D games are held to the exact same standards by SCEA? You don't think it's more likely for a bad polygonal game to slip through than a bad sprite based game?"

They might not be treated exactly the same. But there isn't this huge gap as SNK is making it out to be like.

You can't prove that. And really, MS3 is solid as a rock from a design perspective, if not presentation then why would it fail?

"What you mean like MS4-5 being blocked or SNK officials spreading bitter lies about SCEA? The signs are longshot assumptions on your part almost exclusively."

Till we know it was canned, it's you that are doing longshot assumptions.

Don't take this personally, but all you've done is bullshit your own far reaching notions and suppositions as truth this entire thread with little to no direct backup. Of course SNK is flat out lying, why didn't I see it sooner?

"Or is it only valid when the comments are Sony's favor, otherwise it must all be lies right? "

It's more valid when he comes out and says it.

Koyamai did actually.

don't say absurd crap like "Sony doesn't allow ANY 2D games on the PS2".

He didn't say that however. He actually said “Sony just isn’t interested in 2D games anymore – whatever it might be. And yet many games, as long as they are in 3D, trickle through all the time. It’s a crazy situation and we don’t believe it reflects the needs of game consumers." Read closer next time.

Come out and say they canned MS4-5, and if you read that statement he never specifically says they canned it.

Well why else would SNK suddenly pull it? They want a PS2 release remember.

Seriously, if you can manage to leap to illogical conclusions like MS3 was canned due to pricing alone and SNK officials are bitter liars (neither of which you can support with any concrete evidence) then what's wrong with a direct, relatively simple inference? Or can you only leap in one direction?

Plus when someone talks like this guy it's very difficult to take him seriously. It sounds EXACTLY like Naka, Smilebit and all those other developers that were pissed off at Sony and started talking about how the PS2 wasn't capable of something like PSO or how it couldn't do JSR. Which was ofcourse bitterness as we know that now.

So anyone making anti-SCEA comments makes one difficult to take seriously? Can't say I'm surprised.

Besides those comments came when Sega was still a hardware provider (and direct competition). The comparison doesn't fly.

"SF2/SF3 are relatively old while KOF 2002/2003 (and MS 4/5 for that matter) are relatively new. Try again."

I already did with the MS3 / MS4 and 5 comparison. It was brought up that its because MS3 is better so it gets priced the same as 2 newer games but that doesn't really work. Fact is MS3 is the older game so it makes very little sense for it to have the same price than 2 new games combined.

So what relevance does this have to the SFAC Vs KOF02/03 comparison you made?