Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Automatic Brightness Limiter
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
So my 15 years old Pioneer Kuro is dying - OLED, QD-OLED, QLED..
- Thread starter Buggy Loop
- Start date
Automatic Brightness Limiter
Kabelly
Gold Member
I've used my LG C1 as a pc monitor for 2 years and don't have any burn in. i watch youtube. i use chrome with all the different tabs and web bar visible. i watch videos with live chats on the side so an obvious break in the screen and still no burn in. Also the C1 is good at detecting when there is a static image on the screen for a long period of time and eventually it will go to the screen saver or even shut off. I've fallen asleep watching youtube and typically the ending of the videos has all the tiles with suggested videos and still no burn on. Mind you I have power saving settings in case I do fall asleep so my PC shuts of relatively quickly if I'm not using it for a bit. The C1 shuts off pretty quickly too if there is no input.
It might not be "the" tv as you said but if you're getting a new tv just go for the OLED or QDOLED at the very least. I also have a very bright apartment and for general viewing it still is good for day time. My model is old at this point too and it's still one of the best tv's i've personally ever had. My SONY Bravia was beautiful and still is for it's time but the upgrade I got was so worth it.
It might not be "the" tv as you said but if you're getting a new tv just go for the OLED or QDOLED at the very least. I also have a very bright apartment and for general viewing it still is good for day time. My model is old at this point too and it's still one of the best tv's i've personally ever had. My SONY Bravia was beautiful and still is for it's time but the upgrade I got was so worth it.
Denton
Member
How does it manifest? I am writing this post from a couch on my ST50. So far the only thing that died is only the most important button on the remote (menu), so I asked sis to give me new remote for christmas xD (I tried the internet advice on how to make it work again, didn't work)
Bojji
Member
OLED is not perfect but in my opinion it's the best tv tech available right now. I had LCD VA tvs since 2008, 768p Samsung MVA with massive black smearing, 1080p Samsung VA that was much better, 4K VA TCL that wasn't that bad but didn't have VRR or any real HDR support.
So I bought 120hz Hisense with vrr support, proper HDR and local dimming. It had good reviews but fucking reviewers didn't mention that it was IPS... Everything without local dimming looked like shit and feature that was most important to me (VRR) turned local dimming off. I returned this shit...
So I bought LG OLED that wasn't really that much more expensive and can't look at LCD screens anymore, it fixes most of problems I had over the years like:
- black smearing of VA panels
- terrible contrast of IPS panels
- shit viewing angles of VA panels
- terrible local dimming on non expensive panels and potential of local dimming turning off with vrr or reducing quality
- higher input lag in general
- dirty screen effect or IPS glow
You have to do TON of research before buying LCD tv to not get fucked and many reviews are sponsored.
OLED FOR ME have only one big disadvantage:
- 30fps looks terrible on it so it really is nearly unusable for PS4 (and earlier) games but it's AMAZING for pc with constant 120Hz VRR output and very good for new consoles but only with 40fps and above.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
And the WOLEDs are dim in SDR and HDR.
Last edited:
Buggy Loop
Member
Gonna have to check in store, I read all comments and I’m left right in the middle.
I wonder if In store I can ask them to play 30fps content for motion clarity?
Any videos which compares QLED and OLED motion?
Where? Best I could find is the 55” model open box for 2.1k
I wonder if In store I can ask them to play 30fps content for motion clarity?
Any videos which compares QLED and OLED motion?
Where? Best I could find is the 55” model open box for 2.1k
Bojji
Member
Depends on what you define as "dim", SDR is mastered at 100nits so displaying it in higher brightness is automatically incorrect. Of course during the day it can't be 100, LG C3 has around 400nits brightness for SDR content and this should be absolutely enough for correct picture in many different lighting settings.
Top oleds can go to 1500nits for HDR.
For me brightness isn't everything, what is most important is contrast between brightest and darkest elements and this looks amazing on OLED panels. People are obsessed with brightness of their tv when in reality I have to reduce brightness of my tv after some time during the night to not hurt my eyes anymore and it's under 1000 nits, nowhere close to 2000 nits or more that many mini LEDs have tight now.
Last edited:
King Dazzar
Member
Its not an MLA panel.
King Dazzar
Member
To be fair you could say all OLED lovers are obsessed with black level. But that wouldnt be fair. All TV tech has its pros and cons. Any TV if not being used in an accuracy focused way i.e set correctly can cause eye fatigue with regards brightness. The biggest gain for LCD, isnt just the peak brightness, its the APL. My 3k nit LCD doesnt fatigue me anymore than my 800nit OLED. It actually can help with some games, because it shows the APL correctly.
That said, I love and adore emissive QD-OLED and to lesser degree the new MLA-OLED's. I've also always loved the A90J. But I still wouldnt be without my high end LCD.
The_Observer
Member
In a bright room as a secondary TV? Sony X90L for sure. Why would you spend more? OLEDs are overrated compared to FALDs anyway (I have both types).
Corporal.Hicks
Member
I only got around 100 nits on my plasma TVs ( Panasonic VT30, GT60) and IMO that was not good enough even for night time. The picture was depressingly dim in accurate picture modes (THX, or calibrated professional picture mode), so I always used much brighter (but less accurate) normal picture modes.
But I cant imagine a plasma owner being disappointed with the brightness of an OLED. Unlike plasma TVs, modern MLA WOLEDs or QDOLEDs are definitely bright enough.
But there's one thing to keep in mind when you switch from a plasma to an OLED display. The motion quality isnt nearly as good on OLED, so you need to use BFI to get similar results, and this thing reduce the brightness
.
Last edited:
Shake Your Rump
Member
I never see it. Never happened during use with my LG C9, LG C1, or Sony A95K. The only time the screen dims is when I leave a game paused for a few minutes while I get food, etc. During gameplay, watching TV shows, watching movies, I have never seen it happen, ever. I use the default game/cinema/dolby picture modes which usually have max brightness.
I have seen videos of it, so I know it’s out there. Something about particular TV shows or streaming service? I don’t use the native apps, so maybe they are the cause?
Last edited:
Shake Your Rump
Member
Sony lowered the MSRP to $2000 last month, so it may be sold out everywhere by now. I looked around a bit and found it listed at a few local shops.
Sony XR55A95K 55" Bravia XR Master Series OLED 4K Ultra HD HDR Sma
55 Sony XR55A95K Bravia XR Master Series OLED 4K Ultra HD HDR Smart TV
www.teletime.ca
I have bought fronts this store and they are great if you are in the GTA.
MikeM
Member
Im starting to get some faint vertical lines. Usually a symptom of dying. I know its not burn in.
Boaty McBoatface
Member
If you go LCD from plasma, you will hate life. The only acceptable LCD TVs are mini LEDs, and tbh they're not as good as desktop monitors or the Macbook pro screens, so just get OLED. LG will be your best bet for price vs quality
Last edited:
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Both have issues and everyone has preferences is all I'm saying.
This should be respected.
I am not going to list OLED negatives as it's been done enough in this thread already.
I am one who researches like a motherf***er.
I have spent mad money on tech that I liked from doing so.
$8K on my Z9D for example.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
24hz-30 has issues
Bojji
Member
That's the truth, there is no ideal technology right now, FOR ME OLED is the best you can get but I wouldn't mind bright mini led VA with lots of dimming zones and good implementation of VRR.
Micro led has potential to bring LCD and OLED fans into one camp and unite us for good.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Micro LED on paper is going to smoke everything.(including our wallets)
It's a way off for the typical consumer.
In the meantime we have to settle for further advancements of the current tech PHOLED,Dual Cell and better Mini LED implementation.
simpatico
Member
A vote for the cheap ones here. Especially as a secondary. I went with a high end LCD years ago and it just wasn't worth the money or the stress. These things are built to be disposable. When you're playing a great game, having a TV that is double the cost does nothing to enhance that experience. If you want something really nice for the primary, research projectors.
Last edited:
Kuranghi
Member
Did I ever tell you a 100" ZD9 came up on the Sony staff store once? It was brand new for £29,000, RRP was £60000 in 2017, this was 2018.
I did consider it for a minute, then I refreshed the page and someone had already bought it. Still my dream display, each one hand-built in Japan and fully calibrated for you apparently.
I played Bloodborne on LG C1 and it was fine.
Miyazaki’s Slave
Gold Member
That Kuro was amazing. I can't believe it lasted me even that long. Image quality was so good that I never felt the urge to upgrade when going to stores. On top of that, it served as a heater for Canadian winter
Been YEARS since I have heard that model name! I still have a 65' Pioneer Elite plasma....it throws off SO much heat. The picture still looks amazing...but no one wants these things
Giallo Corsa
Member
Here we go again...
It's not "fine" man - unless your C1 is somehow different and/or "magic" compared to all OLEDs out there.
instant.response.time , it's inherent to OLED technology and the reason why there's judder/stutter in sub 60fps content.
You're not noticing it and it's fine/more power to you but let's not spread misinformation since it's a real thing.
Personally, I see it/perceive it (as all of my buddies with functioning eyeballs) and unfortunately, it has made it impossible for for us to go back to older, XONE/PS4 games that run at 30fps, for those that can perceive it it's THAT bad.
Even taking BFI into account, it's still a very real thing.
Then you have the fact that Bloodborne has also an uneven framepacing and...I'm.actually envious of the fact that you're not puking by the OLED judder + BB's framepacing combo.
Basically, it's impossible for the whole thing to be "fine".
Cheers
Last edited:
Giallo Corsa
Member
Unfortunately, the later, it has made it impossible to go back to 30fps games due to that fuckin' stutter/judder friend, it's just horrible...
Buggy Loop
Member
Just came back from Best Buy but I was rushed a bit due to having kids with me and they were tired, was an unplanned visit
Best Buy employees suck
Holy shit the guy has zero fucking interest to help or to change to another demo, a 24 fps bluray for example? No it’s the same reels with motion interpolation sky high
Few things I noticed though :
X90L is surprisingly good looking, was not expecting that
Had the X93L and A80L side by side. They had different demos though so that’s hard to compare. I’m really conflicted between X93L and A80L now, they’re at $100 difference. But the X series simply look way brighter, while OLED seems to have better depth?
I’m gonna go elsewhere that is a bit more professional to dig more into it.
Best Buy employees suck
Holy shit the guy has zero fucking interest to help or to change to another demo, a 24 fps bluray for example? No it’s the same reels with motion interpolation sky high
Few things I noticed though :
X90L is surprisingly good looking, was not expecting that
Had the X93L and A80L side by side. They had different demos though so that’s hard to compare. I’m really conflicted between X93L and A80L now, they’re at $100 difference. But the X series simply look way brighter, while OLED seems to have better depth?
I’m gonna go elsewhere that is a bit more professional to dig more into it.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
A lot of them refuse to acknowledge the flaws in OLED. Ego investment in their purchase.
Kuranghi
Member
Nice, got to see with your own eyes since its you buying it ofc, I would try to see X90L next to a U8K to see what you think, play these on both:
The shop floor is going to favour LCD in many ways because everything is set to max brightness, contrast and all that, so the higher APL TVs will stand out, if you want to see the LCDs stressed and why overall OLED is considered the best we have right now then play this and go to specifically this time stamp (26 minutes):
The rain and tiny highlights will be much brighter and more defined on the OLEDs. I never dreamed of playing that on LCD before now, I use to use it to convert LCD to OLED, but U8K actually handles it pretty well, the tiny highlights are dimmed a lot to avoid blooming/loss of contrast though ofc.
Last edited:
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
You're gonna have to choose between brightness and contrast.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Wow! I would love to see that size in person.
Heard it got even brighter.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
I have a Panasonic plasma that still works from around 2010 but I don't use it anymore. It's too small only 48" I think plus it weights about 80 lbs.
Kuranghi
Member
Yeah Vincent Teoh said its nearly 3000 nits. I've recently sold a 100" U7K to someone, I'm going to go to their house and see it after Christmas, they sent me a photo and it looks tiny in the room somehow, they must have a mansion or something, the TV is like 5m wide ha.
Buggy Loop
Member
Nothing's perfect eh
This video is convincing me on the X93L, Its the X95L in the video but they are very similar in comparisons. X93L still got software upgrades over the X95K of 2022 and has less blooming, more comparable to X95L even with less dimming zones.
Yes there can be more blooming in some scenes. But brightness such as this :
I think I'm more of a brightness guy. But again, I'll go to a more professional place soon.
Best Buy tonight was run by fucking teenagers. They avoided customers, they were on their phones, walking around seeing other of their friends, anything but to try to sell something.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
X95L is the closest we got to a good ZD9 alternative btw.
I can see Sony improving on it for 2024 with at a minimum them adding the Pentonic chip. So it's something to keep a eye out for.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Nothing's perfect eh
This video is convincing me on the X93L, Its the X95L in the video but they are very similar in comparisons. X93L still got software upgrades over the X95K of 2022 and has less blooming, more comparable to X95L even with less dimming zones.
Yes there can be more blooming in some scenes. But brightness such as this :
I think I'm more of a brightness guy. But again, I'll go to a more professional place soon.
Best Buy tonight was run by fucking teenagers. They avoided customers, they were on their phones, walking around seeing other of their friends, anything but to try to sell something.
X93L is the X95K from the previous year.
Unless money is funny I wouldn't go less than a X95L but it's 85 only in the states.
So maybe wait to see what Sony announces in a month or two?
15 minutes in...
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Nothing's perfect eh
This video is convincing me on the X93L, Its the X95L in the video but they are very similar in comparisons. X93L still got software upgrades over the X95K of 2022 and has less blooming, more comparable to X95L even with less dimming zones.
Yes there can be more blooming in some scenes. But brightness such as this :
I think I'm more of a brightness guy. But again, I'll go to a more professional place soon.
Best Buy tonight was run by fucking teenagers. They avoided customers, they were on their phones, walking around seeing other of their friends, anything but to try to sell something.
Treat yourself and buy the X93L. You deserve it. That G3 is dim. Auto Brightness Limiter ruining things like usual.
Last edited:
Buggy Loop
Member
Naw I ain't paying for a 85", that's maybe for future home theater. (and not ready for a while so another model by then)
No way I have the patience to wait on next models and then wait for their ridiculous pricing to go down to reasonable levels. That's a year from now. So I'm late in 2023 game but prices are already lower.
X93L is the same hardware as X95K, but software on XR chip was changed, the local dimming algorithm was changed
Sony X95K vs Sony X93L/X93CL Side-by-Side TV Comparison
The Sony X93L and the Sony X95K are extremely similar overall, but the newer X93L is slightly better. Sony has tweaked the local dimming algorithms, so there's less blooming around bright highlights in dark scenes on the X93L.
www.rtings.com
X95K left vs X93L right : blooming
And
@ 9:33
So it's not like a total win for the X95L, its very subtle the differences.
Honestly, I want to see more A80 demo in store, but X93L is now #1 lock. I think I would regret OLED brightness but I have to see it with my eyes.
Last edited:
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Naw I ain't paying for a 85", that's maybe for future home theater. (and not ready for a while so another model by then)
No way I have the patience to wait on next models and then wait for their ridiculous pricing to go down to reasonable levels. That's a year from now. So I'm late in 2023 game but prices are already lower.
X93L is the same hardware as X95K, but software on XR chip was changed, the local dimming algorithm was changed
Sony X95K vs Sony X93L/X93CL Side-by-Side TV Comparison
The Sony X93L and the Sony X95K are extremely similar overall, but the newer X93L is slightly better. Sony has tweaked the local dimming algorithms, so there's less blooming around bright highlights in dark scenes on the X93L.
X95K left vs X93L right : blooming
And
@ 9:33
So it's not like a total win for the X95L, its very subtle the differences.
Honestly, I want to see more A80 demo in store, but X93L is now #1 lock. I think I would regret OLED brightness but I have to see it with my eyes.
Some of the models could release late winter/early spring.
If you do OLED do the A95L.
No OLED has tempted me more....
Did you consider the XLED from Sharp?
Sharp 65" 4K Ultra HD Mini LED Google TV - 4T-C65FV1U
Shop Sharp TVs at Abt. Experience the best quality and clarity in the comfort of your own home with a 65" AQUOS XLED display and Dolby Digital audio.
www.abt.com
Last edited:
Buggy Loop
Member
Fuck it,
Just bought 65" X93L
Done
Hopefully a companion that will last as long as my Kuro bro.
Was mighty fucking impressive in store next to OLED so I don't see any regrets on horizon. I trust in Sony brand too, their processing and long history of quality TVs, I'm a bit doubtful for Hisense, they might have no problems but they have a bit more to prove for long term quality.
I thought about this and I really didn't want to nag the family on content they watch to not get burn ins, etc. I don't think it will necessarily happen, I just don't want the thought to occur.
To be delivered this Wednesday. OMG.
I think the first movie I'll watch is Blade Runner 2049
Just bought 65" X93L
Done
Hopefully a companion that will last as long as my Kuro bro.
Was mighty fucking impressive in store next to OLED so I don't see any regrets on horizon. I trust in Sony brand too, their processing and long history of quality TVs, I'm a bit doubtful for Hisense, they might have no problems but they have a bit more to prove for long term quality.
I thought about this and I really didn't want to nag the family on content they watch to not get burn ins, etc. I don't think it will necessarily happen, I just don't want the thought to occur.
To be delivered this Wednesday. OMG.
I think the first movie I'll watch is Blade Runner 2049
Bojji
Member
But this is not technological flaw, it's the content flaw. OLED makes 30fps worse because it's superior to LCD and refreshes image faster. In this case being superior produces inferior results.
We shouldn't get games with only 30fps option on consoles, there is a whole spectrum between 40 and 120 fps that looks fine on OLED screens. But fucking devs don't give a fuck as always, options like that would benefit ALL people with good tvs.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Fuck it,
Just bought 65" X93L
Done
Hopefully a companion that will last as long as my Kuro bro.
Was mighty fucking impressive in store next to OLED so I don't see any regrets on horizon. I trust in Sony brand too, their processing and long history of quality TVs, I'm a bit doubtful for Hisense, they might have no problems but they have a bit more to prove for long term quality.
I thought about this and I really didn't want to nag the family on content they watch to not get burn ins, etc. I don't think it will necessarily happen, I just don't want the thought to occur.
To be delivered this Wednesday. OMG.
I think the first movie I'll watch is Blade Runner 2049
You picked a great TV. I'm glad you got to see an OLED side by side with it. Many on here will try to sell you on OLED being bright enough. It's not.
Last edited:
Pimpbaa
Member
Some games are indeed fine at 30fps when they have good motion blur. I had zeroes problems playing Starfield or Zelda TOTK on my LG CX (even after playing another game that can run at 60fps). Insomniac’s games have all been fine at 30fps too (more so at 40fps). Then there are other games like Horizon Forbidden West which nearly gives me a goddamn seizure at 30fps. Only thing I can think of that is cause it is maybe they have a shitty implementation of motion blur or the super high detailed textures or more specifically high contrast details don’t play well with 30fps, OLEDs, and peoples eyes. Bloodborne was one of the games that definitely did not do 30fps right.
You made the right choice given your room conditions. You need brightness more than you need contrast in a bright room and that Sony miniled is going to do great on that front. I almost bought the x93l on black friday but my existing Sony is doing fine, so I’m waiting for next year’s models.Fuck it,
Just bought 65" X93L
Done
Hopefully a companion that will last as long as my Kuro bro.
Was mighty fucking impressive in store next to OLED so I don't see any regrets on horizon. I trust in Sony brand too, their processing and long history of quality TVs, I'm a bit doubtful for Hisense, they might have no problems but they have a bit more to prove for long term quality.
I thought about this and I really didn't want to nag the family on content they watch to not get burn ins, etc. I don't think it will necessarily happen, I just don't want the thought to occur.
To be delivered this Wednesday. OMG.
I think the first movie I'll watch is Blade Runner 2049
Enthusiasts will groan, but I have live color and auto local dimming set to high on my Sony, with gamma set to -2. All other post processing stuff is off. Everything looks vibrant even when the sun is shining through my door-sized south facing windows in the living room.
Enjoy your TV!
Buggy Loop
Member
I have a feeling I'll enjoy it a lot yea.
I'll probably piss off purists by saying this but I have a lot of movies on Apple Itunes I'm really curious to see in 4K dolby vision. I'm gonna be torn by deciding on the first one.. Top gun, Blade runner, Dune, Arrival, Nope, Parasite..
Holy shit, LOTR
That must be fucking nice unless they screwed upThe Plasma TV actually struggled a bit during day in that room. This TV was initially bought and spent a good 14 years out of 15 in a basement. Plasma was nice for blacks but not that bright. So yea, seeing how bright these mini-LED TVs are now, for that specific room I think its the good choice.
The day I finish the home theater in the basement with light controls, I'll evaluate whatever the tech will be (2025 ish i guess)
Celcius
°Temp. member
Thanks for sharing your thought process and your final choice. I'll seriously consider this TV as well next year when I move.Fuck it,
Just bought 65" X93L
Done
Hopefully a companion that will last as long as my Kuro bro.
Was mighty fucking impressive in store next to OLED so I don't see any regrets on horizon. I trust in Sony brand too, their processing and long history of quality TVs, I'm a bit doubtful for Hisense, they might have no problems but they have a bit more to prove for long term quality.
I thought about this and I really didn't want to nag the family on content they watch to not get burn ins, etc. I don't think it will necessarily happen, I just don't want the thought to occur.
To be delivered this Wednesday. OMG.
I think the first movie I'll watch is Blade Runner 2049
Last edited:
Yeah, I watch my content via iTunes as well. Heh. It is what it is.I have a feeling I'll enjoy it a lot yea.
I'll probably piss off purists by saying this but I have a lot of movies on Apple Itunes I'm really curious to see in 4K dolby vision. I'm gonna be torn by deciding on the first one.. Top gun, Blade runner, Dune, Arrival, Nope, Parasite..
Holy shit, LOTR
The Plasma TV actually struggled a bit during day in that room. This TV was initially bought and spent a good 14 years out of 15 in a basement. Plasma was nice for blacks but not that bright. So yea, seeing how bright these mini-LED TVs are now, for that specific room I think its the good choice.
The day I finish the home theater in the basement with light controls, I'll evaluate whatever the tech will be (2025 ish i guess)
Gonna add a recommendation to your consideration list, Mad Max Fury Road.
CJ_75
Member
As previous Sony A95K QD-OLED owner (and before that Sony A8G WOLED), I am leaving OLED technology for good. For just one reason: ABL.
Dimming is a huge dealbreaker if you care about gaming. Games with a HUD or any static objects causes OLED tv’s to dim. ABL is way to agressive to my taste.
SDR is around 150-175 nits at best. I went for the 75X95L Mini-LED in Europe which I believe is the same panel as X93L in North America. I do notice some blooming and the contrast and black levels are much less than OLED, but the punchy colors and sustained brightness in SDR and HDR and the extra screen estate have won me over. With the 2nd gen QD-OLED, the FOMO is real. I have zero regrets in switching panel technology. I shall only switch to Micro-LED as my next panel technology.
Dimming is a huge dealbreaker if you care about gaming. Games with a HUD or any static objects causes OLED tv’s to dim. ABL is way to agressive to my taste.
SDR is around 150-175 nits at best. I went for the 75X95L Mini-LED in Europe which I believe is the same panel as X93L in North America. I do notice some blooming and the contrast and black levels are much less than OLED, but the punchy colors and sustained brightness in SDR and HDR and the extra screen estate have won me over. With the 2nd gen QD-OLED, the FOMO is real. I have zero regrets in switching panel technology. I shall only switch to Micro-LED as my next panel technology.
Games of Today
Member
All I'm saying, is that you can get a 65" LG C2 for under $1,500. That's probably the best deal around. Much better than a shitty TLC LCD.
