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[Sub_Level]

Just did a Solo Sonic run getting all 14 emeralds. I had to restart the entire game twice (once from Launch Base, once from Lava Reef) cuz I messed up too many times on the Special Stages. But it was worth it!

This game still rocks hard. There's really only one bad level in the whole bunch (Sandopolis). You get such a great sense of speed while simultaneously being rewarded for repeat playthroughs by having prior knowledge of the level layout to avoid enemies & traps. The music is legitimately 10/10. The bosses are a joke outside the final gauntlet, but honestly I prefer it that way. Tough bosses would hurt the stellar pacing. Mania is incredible but S3&K is still a stone cold classic.

For anyone interest in replaying, I recommend the Angel Island Revisited mod. It features, among other things:

- Widescreen + 60fps.
- Music customization between S3, S&K, & Prototype Builds.
- Option to use the classic shield instead of elemental shields if you want to make the game slightly harder.
- Option to play Flying Battery Zone after Carnival Night Zone, as was originally intended by the developers.
- Option to include the S3 final boss as Sonic/Tails.
- Super Sonic music customization, so you don't have to listen to that obnoxious invincibility music.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Can't you just reload the save? I believe there are two giant rings a zone (it's been a long time since i played) that take you to the bonus stage giving you two chances, but if you mess up you can just reload the save and the giant rings will be back.

 

[The Stig]

Love s3&k.

 

[Holammer]

I'm not really into Sonic games myself, but I've been curious about some of the recent fan games. How do they look or play to you as a more diehard fan?
Fan games like Sonic and the Fallen Star and Sonic Triple Trouble. How about giving them a go and make a thread about it, they look like something that deserves a spotlight. From an actual fan, not a dirty pleb like me that played Sonic 2 a couple of hours back in '92.

 

[jimjonjimmy]

Can't you just reload the save? I believe there are two giant rings a zone (it's been a long time since i played) that take you to the bonus stage giving you two chances, but if you mess up you can just reload the save and the giant rings will be back.

After doing a special stage the game saves and the rings disappear for that playthrough. I'm not sure if returning to the level after clearing the game gives you a second chance at them. Also some levels have more then 2 Big rings. If you are skilled enough you can get all 7 Chaos Emeralds by Hydrocity Zone.

 

[Sub_Level]

Can't you just reload the save? I believe there are two giant rings a zone (it's been a long time since i played) that take you to the bonus stage giving you two chances, but if you mess up you can just reload the save and the giant rings will be back.

Nope, the game hard locks you out of a stage once you attempt. I think on NG+ the big rings might appear again with your saved emeralds but I think its more challenging & fun to try to get all 14 in one go.

I'm not really into Sonic games myself, but I've been curious about some of the recent fan games. How do they look or play to you as a more diehard fan?
Fan games like Sonic and the Fallen Star and Sonic Triple Trouble. How about giving them a go and make a thread about it, they look like something that deserves a spotlight. From an actual fan, not a dirty pleb like me that played Sonic 2 a couple of hours back in '92.

I'm playing Triple Trouble 16-Bit now as a matter of fact. The thing is, its actually meant a direct sequel to S3&K so I figured I'd give S3 another run first. Its great though, the game lets you retry Special Stages by offering one of your Extra Lives as tribute. Thats a great system that rewards collecting rings without getting hit, as you tend to always have a surplus of Extra Lives & Continues by the time you finish S3&K.

After doing a special stage the game saves and the rings disappear for that playthrough. I'm not sure if returning to the level after clearing the game gives you a second chance at them. Also some levels have more then 2 Big rings. If you are skilled enough you can get all 7 Chaos Emeralds by Hydrocity Zone.

Correct. And you can already become Hyper Sonic in Mushroom Hill Zone; it has a staggering 8 big rings you can use as Sonic so you can even fail one time. I know the ones in Flying Battery, Sandopolis, and Lava Reef by heart now but I'd need a map for the Mushroom Hill rings its crazy.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Nope, the game hard locks you out of a stage once you attempt. I think on NG+ the big rings might appear again with your saved emeralds but I think its more challenging & fun to try to get all 14 in one go.

But aren't the saves based on level? So if you go to a level, fail all the big rings, can't you just reset and use the same save you had before making the big rings reset too?

 

[Fake]

Probably the best Sonic game by far. The ideia of giving Sonic a shield was the best way of making him apar with Tails and Knuckles.

And the way they lock your char to the right way, but you still somehow make your way trought the locked path is simple unique.

 

[BlackTron]

Sonic 3 and K is dope, but for reasons I can't really articulate, I've always had the most fun with Sonic 2.

I still think Hydrocity Zone is the best water level in a game though. What a massive difference from Labyrinth Zone.

 

[lovetalkgames]

Thanks for making me aware of Angel Island Revisited!

 

[BlackTron]

Probably the best Sonic game by far. The ideia of giving Sonic a shield was the best way of making him apar with Tails and Knuckles.

It was a very good idea, but not as good as the drop dash. I wish Sonic Mania used both at the same time.

 

[ProgenitorCastle]

It's awesome seeing one of my favorite games get a GAF writeup like this! How is Sandopolis a bad level lol, ancient Egypt ftw. Other than that, most of the OP is on point

 

[The Sum of Zero]

I managed to do that with every character (S&T/Sonic/Tails/Knuckles) on the Genesis way back in the day.

I don't think I could replicate that these days, I lack the dedication I once had.

 

[Fake]

It was a very good idea, but not as good as the drop dash. I wish Sonic Mania used both at the same time.

I never liked drop dash because the way was implemented can frustated you in big jumps, not to mention the droping box( when you hold the jump button from a far high altitude, the person can get the same level of altitute, making fun if you memorize where the box is located before making a high jump).
In fact, drop dash was one of the main reasons the Sonic Origins came bugged. Many modders are actually pointing the drop dash mechanic to the series of glitches in the game.
I always disable drop dash.

 

[BlackTron]

I never liked drop dash because the way was implemented can frustated you in big jumps, not to mention the droping box( when you hold the jump button from a far high altitude, the person can get the same level of altitute, making fun if you memorize where the box is located before making a high jump).
In fact, drop dash was one of the main reasons the Sonic Origins came bugged. Many modders are actually pointing the drop dash mechanic to the series of glitches in the game.
I always disable drop dash.

The concessions are worth it IMO. Drop dash allows you to stay in constant motion, which is exactly what a Sonic exclusive ability should do.

It makes Sonic 2 an entirely different game. I'm playing the Sega Ages version which I guess doesn't have as many glitches as origins which I'll never play lol.

 

[Fake]

The concessions are worth it IMO. Drop dash allows you to stay in constant motion, which is exactly what a Sonic exclusive ability should do.

It makes Sonic 2 an entirely different game. I'm playing the Sega Ages version which I guess doesn't have as many glitches as origins which I'll never play lol.

Just my opinion mind you, but I never fell 'losing motion'. This feature are more for speedrunners and such. I always found lazy people asking to keep running all the game. Most of the levels are mix of exploration and speed, so I not here to speedup the process. When the game ask me to be fast, I'll be, when to explore, I'll make my time.
Even if you watch some people playing with drop dash on youtube the sensation you get is: "He is really want to make this level as fast as he can" or "Why such a hurry". I feel like most of 3D Sonic fans embraced Sonic Unleashed and now want to beat levels of the classic Sonic just as fast as they can without taking into consideration that the level design was perfect for the time plus the abilities the characters got in this period.
Just use drop dash on Sonic 1 and you'll see a totally different game.

 

[BlackTron]

Just my opinion mind you, but I never fell 'losing motion'. This feature are more for speedrunners and such. I always found lazy people asking to keep running all the game. Most of the levels are mix of exploration and speed, so I not here to speedup the process. When the game ask me to be fast, I'll be, when to explore, I'll make my time.
Even if you watch some people playing with drop dash on youtube the sensation you get is: "He is really want to make this level as fast as he can" or "Why such a hurry". I feel like most of 3D Sonic fans embraced Sonic Unleashed and now want to beat levels of the classic Sonic just as fast as they can without taking into consideration that the level design was perfect for the time plus the abilities the characters got in this period.
Just use drop dash on Sonic 1 and you'll see a totally different game.

For Sonic, speed doesn't always have to be the answer, but it's nice to fluently exercise the option, without stopping if you don't desire at that moment.

Because I've played these games SO many times, I find the DD to add an interesting new dynamic to challenge my knowledge of the levels, enemy patterns and physics. Emerald Hill is only a few minutes long and you will play it billions of times, so may as well do it while trying a variety of styles.

Careful use of the drop dash isn't just a way to speed run a level IMO. I haven't watched any youtube videos, as you say, it's just 100% my own opinion

 

[AMSCD]

How did Sonic 3 work with Sonic and Knuckles? I remember my friend who had a Sega Genesis would put one cart on top of the other. Were they stand alone games?

 

[nkarafo]

The best Sonic game and the best way to play it.

 

[ProgenitorCastle]

How did Sonic 3 work with Sonic and Knuckles? I remember my friend who had a Sega Genesis would put one cart on top of the other. Were they stand alone games?

You can play either Sonic 3 standalone, Sonic and Knuckles, or Sonic 3 and Knuckles which is when you combine them

 

[Fake]

How did Sonic 3 work with Sonic and Knuckles? I remember my friend who had a Sega Genesis would put one cart on top of the other. Were they stand alone games?

They are stand alone games. If you combine, will be all stages from Sonic 3 plus S&K, Tails can play at S&K, Knuckles can play at Sonic 3, not to mention save slot from Sonic 3 get into S&K.

 

[The Sum of Zero]

They are stand alone games. If you combine, will be all stages from Sonic 3 plus S&K, Tails can play and S&K, Knuckles can play at Sonic 3, not to mention save slot from Sonic 3 get into S&K.

All this, plus if you collect all 7 Chaos Emeralds in the S3 portion then enter a giant ring in the S&K levels, you lose them but you then can start getting the Super Emeralds. This is how you unlock Hyper Sonic/Hyper Knuckles/Super Tails.

 

[64bitmodels]

mastahpiece

i beat it not too long ago myself with all the hyper emeralds as sonic and tails, i have yet to beat the game with knuckles
people hate the blue spheres special stages but theyre honestly the best, they encourage exploration and really keep you on your toes. The entire game does though, and its why i don't really recommend zooming through it like with sonic 1 or 2 since youre not getting any emeralds without thinking outside the box and exploring the stages a bit

 

[Saber]

Best thing about Sonic 3 Knuckles its plataforming, diverse routes and has parts related to speed without being necessarilly mandatory and neither takes a large of portion of level design. No wonder its a master piece and Sonic Team tried to replicate it through years(and fail miserably).

It was a very good idea, but not as good as the drop dash. I wish Sonic Mania used both at the same time.

Drop dash its nothing but a simple addition to spare time stopping and using spin dash.

Elemental shield is miles above, because it gives Sonic 3 different abilities, which are gated by the shield itself making the player learn how to beat the game without lose them.

 

[BlackTron]

Best thing about Sonic 3 Knuckles its plataforming, diverse routes and has parts related to speed without being necessarilly mandatory and neither takes a large of portion of level design. No wonder its a master piece and Sonic Team tried to replicate it through years(and fail miserably).



Drop dash its nothing but a simple addition to spare time stopping and using spin dash.

Elemental shield is miles above, because it gives Sonic 3 different abilities, which are gated by the shield itself making the player learn how to beat the game without lose them.

I thought we were talking about Sonic's moves, not power-ups. Tails can fly, Knuckles can glide and climb, and Sonic gets the flash shield when you press jump while in the air.

With the drop dash, you can land in the middle of the curve of a steep incline and shoot up it like a rocket, which just feels right to me as Sonic and really freshened up the old games that have no flash or elemental shields to begin with anyway.

No one likes exploration in games more than me and I dislike Sonic games that are all flash and no substance. But I don't like the idea that taking it really slow is the ONLY way to play a level either. Yes with DD you can do a lot of the same stuff as spin dash without stopping, for a character named Sonic that's supposed to trail fire when he runs, isn't it OK if I want to play my 2000th run through Emerald Hill like that? lol

 

[EddieVanHelgen]

Obligatory:
Ice Cap Zone IRL Cover

 

[STARSBarry]

The one thing I remember is if you did Sonic or Tails in combined Sonic 3 & Knuckles it cut out the big arms fight (the last boss in Sonic 3 stock) for some reason.




Shame too because it's one of my fav boss themes, which the remixed knuckles version fight loses.

 

[Saber]

I thought we were talking about Sonic's moves, not power-ups. Tails can fly, Knuckles can glide and climb, and Sonic gets the flash shield when you press jump while in the air.

With the drop dash, you can land in the middle of the curve of a steep incline and shoot up it like a rocket, which just feels right to me as Sonic and really freshened up the old games that have no flash or elemental shields to begin with anyway.

No one likes exploration in games more than me and I dislike Sonic games that are all flash and no substance. But I don't like the idea that taking it really slow is the ONLY way to play a level either. Yes with DD you can do a lot of the same stuff as spin dash without stopping, for a character named Sonic that's supposed to trail fire when he runs, isn't it OK if I want to play my 2000th run through Emerald Hill like that? lol

Shield ability is not a power-up. Its a Sonic ability, which is gated to shields.
If it was a power-up, everyone would get these as soon as they get the shields.

Your explanation again is nothing but a facility. Its just less time consuming for Sonic to just stop and doing spindashs, but he can do normally(like I do when I play him, this doesn't bother me).

Another thing you don't understand is that Sonic 3 Knuckles can be both executed slow and fast, it depends on the player play style. If you just want to run away, skip any box or secrets you can. And you talk as if Sonic using Flame Shield didn't propel him at faster speed, while drop dash is just a small boost of speed(something like level 1 spin dash).

 

[BlackTron]

Shield ability is not a power-up. Its a Sonic ability, which is gated to shields.
If it was a power-up, everyone would get these as soon as they get the shields.

Your explanation again is nothing but a facility. Its just less time consuming for Sonic to just stop and doing spindashs, but he can do normally(like I do when I play him, this doesn't bother me).

Another thing you don't understand is that Sonic 3 Knuckles can be both executed slow and fast, it depends on the player play style. If you just want to run away, skip any box or secrets you can. And you talk as if Sonic using Flame Shield didn't propel him at faster speed, while drop dash is just a small boost of speed(something like level 1 spin dash).

Hold on a second. I had originally said I wished Sonic Mania had *both*. You're right Sonic is the only one who gets shield abilities, though in the beginning I was only referring to his innate flash shield ability, which isn't gated to anything, you can press the jump button after a jump to get a shield that lasts (less than?) a second. Maybe that plus the elemental shield abilities in aggregate is better than drop dash, but that's not what I was referring to at the outset. Just that Drop Dash is better than his innate flash shield (IMO) but I wish both were in there.

I think it's a bit presumptuous to say I don't understand how S3&K can be played while in this very thread I've said I like exploration in games and how in old Sonic titles you can do both. I don't see the problem with having the options available to do both. Why can't I be slow and methodical when I want but also have the tools to be speedy. Often the context of the situation changes within the same level and you don't have to decide whether to go fast or slow at the beginning. In Sonic Adventure the spin dash does not have to be charged and is mapped to a single button so it allows complete flow in gameplay. The god tier is going fast with that kind of flow WHILE finding and getting all the side stuff. Drop dash just makes that style possible in a 2D Sonic, what's the problem? It's not like just because it's there you need to use it all the time lol.

I haven't tried S3/K with drop dash yet but TBH I suspect the move is best for Sonic 2 and perhaps CD though I haven't done CD with it either. Just thinking in terms of the level design.

 

[Saber]

Hold on a second. I had originally said I wished Sonic Mania had *both*. You're right Sonic is the only one who gets shield abilities, though in the beginning I was only referring to his innate flash shield ability, which isn't gated to anything, you can press the jump button after a jump to get a shield that lasts (less than?) a second. Maybe that plus the elemental shield abilities in aggregate is better than drop dash, but that's not what I was referring to at the outset. Just that Drop Dash is better than his innate flash shield (IMO) but I wish both were in there.

I think it's a bit presumptuous to say I don't understand how S3&K can be played while in this very thread I've said I like exploration in games and how in old Sonic titles you can do both. I don't see the problem with having the options available to do both. Why can't I be slow and methodical when I want but also have the tools to be speedy. Often the context of the situation changes within the same level and you don't have to decide whether to go fast or slow at the beginning. In Sonic Adventure the spin dash does not have to be charged and is mapped to a single button so it allows complete flow in gameplay. The god tier is going fast with that kind of flow WHILE finding and getting all the side stuff. Drop dash just makes that style possible in a 2D Sonic, what's the problem? It's not like just because it's there you need to use it all the time lol.

I haven't tried S3/K with drop dash yet but TBH I suspect the move is best for Sonic 2 and perhaps CD though I haven't done CD with it either. Just thinking in terms of the level design.

Ending this discussion I don't have any problems with spindash, just think its nothing but something to cut your time off. I rather prefer instanta shield and shield abilities rather than drop dash, but each with their own. Not gonna drag this over likes and opinions.

As for implementations in other games well, I don't think S3K has any problem adapting Drop Dash. I think Sonic Air implemented, it has more to do with good level design and pacing that makes its non conflicting with the game. Sonic CD on other hand is conflicting, because the level design can be wanky for its own good, so running and spinning didn't aways ends well.

 

[64bitmodels]

Also, Unlike Sonic 2, the game never drops off after mystic cave. Every zone is gold in its own right, with the exception of sandopolis and carnival night

 

[Spukc]

Also, Unlike Sonic 2, the game never drops off after mystic cave. Every zone is gold in its own right, with the exception of sandopolis and carnival night

shut your damn mouth about carnival night you madlad

 

[64bitmodels]

shut your damn mouth about carnival night you madlad

Fuck that barrel

 

[Spukc]

Fuck that barrel

you had to call sega's hotline i am sorry your parents never allowed you to call in.
i guess sonic 2's level select was also never a thing from your childhood xD

 

[64bitmodels]

you had to call sega's hotline i am sorry your parents never allowed you to call in.
i guess sonic 2's level select was also never a thing from your childhood xD

i wasnt alive when the sega hotline was a thing stewpid
i had to find out how that barrel worked myself
the lives i lost.... the time i wasted.... the knuckles section of act 2 being a horrendous level.... that level sucks no matter which way you spin it. and the music is easily the worst of the MJ tracks composed for the game too

 

[mcjmetroid]

As the combined package it's the best sonic game of all time.
But alas you have to judge them as they came out so it's Sonic 2 Vs Sonic 3 Vs Sonic and knuckles and Sonic 2 in this case by far comes out on top.

Also I think blue spheres is not only the best sonic bonus stages but one of the best bonus or special stages of all time in general. Certainly beats the shit out of what donkey Kong country was doing.

 

[Belthazar]

S3&K is, in my opinion, the pinnacle of 2D platforming. Everything about is just polished to perfection, from the fantastic graphics to the immaculate level design and it even mastered the storytelling format without a single word being spoken by the characters. It's just superb. And the music... It's just an achievement on all fronts.